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Joinfortmill

(14,231 posts)
Fri May 26, 2023, 11:12 AM May 2023

The Debt Ceiling is just "Two Santas" in Drag: Thom Hartmann

https://hartmannreport.com/p/the-debt-ceiling-is-just-two-santas?utm_source=substack&utm_medium

Another fascinating history lesson. Read the article to learn who Jude Wanniski is. (my words)

'The republicans are dropping their Two Santas bomb right onto President Joe Biden’s head. It worked against Clinton & Obama and the media never caught on. Why wouldn’t they use it again? Here’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:...“Two Santas” strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes on the rich, all to intentionally run up the US debt as far and as fast as possible. Those massive tax cuts and that uncontrolled spending during Republican presidencies produced three results:They stimulated the economy with a sort of sugar high, making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy;They raised the national debt dramatically (it’s at $32 trillion today, almost all of which tracks back to Reagan’s, Bush Jr.’s, and Trump’s massive tax cuts and Bush’s two illegal off-the-books wars);And they made people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”

Then comes part two of the one-two punch: when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!”...

Americans deserve to know how we’ve been manipulated, and by whom...Hopefully this time Democratic politicians and our media will, finally, call the GOP out on Wanniski’s and Reagan’s Two Santa Clauses scam. And put an end to it once and for all with the constitutional remedies of the 14th Amendment and the “take care” clause of the Constitution’s Article II.'
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dawg

(10,607 posts)
1. For Pete's sake, why don't we just raise the damned debt ceiling as part of every budget we pass.
Fri May 26, 2023, 11:16 AM
May 2023

It makes absolutely no sense to pass a budget, with a deficit, without also raising the debt ceiling a sufficient amount to accommodate that budget.

For that matter, do away with the stupid thing altogether. Don't want the debt to go above a certain limit? Then raise taxes enough (or lower spending enough) to accommodate that.

walkingman

(7,505 posts)
3. Just make the wealthy and corps pay their fair share of taxes and problem solved.
Fri May 26, 2023, 12:25 PM
May 2023

You notice one of the main items in the supposed "negotiations" is cutting IRS funding. That has nothing to do with normal working people.

nowforever

(291 posts)
4. Unfortunately
Fri May 26, 2023, 01:09 PM
May 2023

Media is owned by the rich elite. They are only interested in increasing their share of the pie and the GOP are their lapdogs. Pointing out the hypocrisy of their position makes them wail and stamp their feet and most of media portrays these antics as hard politics. You'll never see Thom's perspective covered in any of our mainstream media because it doesn't serve their Master's goal....unlimited GREED.

Warpy

(110,900 posts)
6. Maybe somebody in the House needs the balls to introduce legislation to decrease the deficit
Fri May 26, 2023, 01:39 PM
May 2023

quickly by ending TFG's giveaway to buillionaires and their corporations, along with a press conference to explain why they were a bad thing for the rest of us, who stand to be cheated out of much of what we paid for.

Bernardo de La Paz

(48,773 posts)
9. Maybe we need to drop sexist testosterone language as if only males can get things done
Fri May 26, 2023, 02:10 PM
May 2023

Maybe 2023 is not too early?

Warpy

(110,900 posts)
13. Got some news for you
Fri May 26, 2023, 03:13 PM
May 2023

Women have balls, generally two of them, only we keep ours safely inside our abdominal cavities. They're called ovaries.

You were saying?

onenote

(42,374 posts)
8. The WH, Senate and House have been under repub control only 2 years since 2009
Fri May 26, 2023, 01:49 PM
May 2023

And the WH, Senate and House have been under Democratic control only 4 years since 2009.

So its a bit hard to put all of the blame for the size of the national debt on one party.

The Democrats controlled the WH, Sen and House from 2009 through 2010. The national debt went from $11,910 trillion in 2009 to $13,560 trillion in 2010. The Democrats also controlled the WH, Senate, and House from 2021 through 2022. The debt went from $29,617 trillion in 2021 to $30,824 in 2022.

On the other side of the ledger, the Repubs controlled all three from 2017 through 2018, and the national debt went from $20,415 trillion to $21,516 trillion.

The biggest jumps in the national debt have occurred when there was a split in the control of the WH, House and Senate.

For example, from 2011 through 2014, the , the Democrats controlled the Senate and the WH, but not the House. During that period the debt went from $14,790 trillion to $17,824 trillion. From 2015 through 2016, the Repubs controlled the Senate and the House, but not the WH and the debt went from $18,151 trillion to $19,573. From 2019 through 2020, the repubs controlled the WH and the Senate, but not the House and the debt went from $22,719 trillion to $27,748 trillion.

Even if those numbers suggested a particular pattern -- and I don't think it does -- any such pattern would be meaningless without considering what led to a particular increase in the debt. For example, the increase from 2019 to 2020 is attributable in large part to pandemic-related spending and it was Democrats that pushed for higher spending.

In short, as is often the case, things are more complex and nuanced than they sometimes are portrayed.

Bernardo de La Paz

(48,773 posts)
10. Congratulations on your 40,000th post. Unfortunately I must disagree with you
Fri May 26, 2023, 02:16 PM
May 2023

There is a clear pattern that Republiconners break the economy and Democrats fix it. Unfortunately, if there are not enough votes to raise taxes on billionaires, then often deficit spending IS required.

Shrub Bush blew up the economy in 2008. Obama had to fix it in 2009. Hence the increase in deficit. NOT THE DEMOCRATS FAULT!

the rump passed a deceptive tax cut bill which helped the middle class initially but then took it away while the rich and ultra-rich got tax cuts that never went away. Republiconners refuse to pay that bill. Hence the increase in deficit. NOT THE DEMOCRATS FAULT!

onenote

(42,374 posts)
14. I don't disagree with you about how the repubs have mismanaged the economy
Fri May 26, 2023, 03:15 PM
May 2023

My post was in response to an assertion that the Republicans spend like drunken sailors. The reality is that both parties spend, and sometimes its the Democrats driving the spending because its become necessary due to neglect (the infrastructure bill) or the need to deal with a pandemic or to rescue the economy.

Again, my point was that simplistic slogans don't address the real issue, which you have identified.

xocetaceans

(3,870 posts)
11. This website, if its data is accurate, seems to flesh out T. Hartmann's argument fairly well.
Fri May 26, 2023, 02:55 PM
May 2023


If you want deeper proof regarding which party's policies have contributed to the national debt, it likely might be taken from the Congressional Record - if one were to work hard enough at that task.

Quite independently of the aforementioned research opportunities, you seem not to deny that Reagan or G. H. W. Bush increased the national debt. Also, you did not say anything about Gingrich's "Contract with America" and its effect.

However, you seem not to think that W's tax cuts or his wars or his economic collapse had much effect which could be tied to W's Administration (and the Republicans): a significant amount of those effects were delayed and came in during the Obama Administration, but you seem readily willing to "credit" President Obama with those increases. You also seem not to think that Trump's tax cuts had an effect.

Anyway, there is a lot of history to back up the fact that the current national debt is largely due to the implementation of Republican policies over the last 40+ years.

Your analysis neglects essentially everything from about 1980 through 2009 as if that were not a part of T. Hartmann's argument. Given all of the above, your final summary statement perhaps applies quite well to your post.

FakeNoose

(32,328 posts)
12. Why doesn't Thom Hartmann say that because of "Santa" Dubya, the banks crashed in 2008
Fri May 26, 2023, 03:06 PM
May 2023

... and Barack Obama came in and saved them.

Because of "Santa" Chump, everything is about to crash in less than a week. This didn't happen under Joe Biden. This is a slow-motion train crash that started in 2018. The huge tax cuts for the ultra-wealthy has caused most of what we're dealing with now. Even the Repukes can understand that. No need to mention "drag" because that gets them all steamed up for other reasons.

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