Please help me understand why drag shows are NOT protected by the 1st amendment.

[Ferrets are Cool]

If people can march down the avenue proudly displaying NAZI paraphernalia, why can't people gather dressed as another gender? I don't get it.

[Meadowoak]

1. [phone]

[Irish_Dem]

2. The rules protect only the rich and powerful.

For the rest of us, the rules are meant to control, punish and torture us.

[Freethinker65]

3. Because "the people" whose rights were enumerated only included straight white intolerant males.

Unless specified.

[Walleye]

4. Well I guess the first amendment doesn't cover things that make teenage boys feel icky

Seems like the Republicans are making rules that would be made by adolescent boys when they get together.

[edisdead]

18. most teenage boys these days could care less

I have trans kids that ride my school bus every day and it has never been an issue. If that doesn’t bother them drag likely wouldn’t either.

[Walleye]

19. I guess I meant to say grown-ass men who never got past being teenage boys

I mean where the hell does homophobia come from anyway? And before I get corrected I know women are involved in all this deplorable behavior. I can’t begin to understand that

[edisdead]

32. ah yeah the arrested developed

[claudette]

5. I thought

it was only drag shows in front of children that weren’t allowed

[jimfields33]

14. It is. Maybe some misunderstood and thought an all out ban.

[Ferrets are Cool]

22. What's the damn difference?????????

[claudette]

28. The difference

may be in the content of the shows that are not allowed in front of children much like the way certain movies are rated for adults only.

[Ferrets are Cool]

37. Bad example. The MPA rating system is a voluntary scheme that is not enforced by law

[claudette]

38. Sorry but

Last edited Sat Apr 1, 2023, 04:59 PM - Edit history (1)

I would not want my young children exposed to adult content no matter WHO was the entertainer - drag or not. Parents have the right to have it banned in certain cases. In my view they also have the duty to avoid such a situation

[W_HAMILTON]

39. Emphasis on parents -- not the government.

If a parent doesn't want to take their child to a drag show, that's fine -- that's their decision.

But it shouldn't be up to the government to enforce criminal penalties on these sorts of drag shows or drag queens. Your kid is much more likely to see FAR worse at the movie theaters than they are at the vast majority of drag shows.

[Ferrets are Cool]

41. Where are you coming up with "sexual content".??

Leave it up to the parents of the children there, not some fucking repug politicians.

[claudette]

42. I was referring to

my previous remark on movie ratings that have adult content. Drag shows with adult content are not suitable for children in my view. And those who run schools and libraries are right to ban that kind of entertainment. There’s nothing wrong with kids knowing there are drag shows. They are easily available on the internet.

[JI7]

43. Movies with sexual content can be watched by kids unless the parent prevents it

[claudette]

44. Except

Kids are banned from entering a theater with a movie that has adult content.

[JI7]

46. There are many movies kids can watch with sexual content as long as they get the ticket

[claudette]

47. And that

is not good

[Ferrets are Cool]

52. I will ask you again. WHERE are you coming up with "adult content".

If you can answer that, I will acquiesce.

[claudette]

53. Tell me

Why drag shows are banned in libraries and schools? What kind of shows are they doing there?

[Ferrets are Cool]

58. You still haven't answered my question, so I will consider this converstation closed.

[claudette]

59. To answer your question

I corrected the word from “sexual” to “adult “. My first comment was that I thought only drag shows with adult content were banned for children. Otherwise. I don’t see why G rated shows should be banned. And parents have the choice to not send their kids to it.

Now you can tell me why they want to ban drag shows. What kind of shows are they doing?

[Ferrets are Cool]

62. Damn, don't you get it? It NEVER matters WHAT kind of shows they are doing....

the ONLY thing that matters is that people that the "reich wing" considers dangerous are doing them. Aren't you sick of ONE group of people, sometimes even ONE person, deciding what is right and wrong?

[claudette]

63. Well

We will have to disagree. I DO think it matters what kind of shows (of any kind) anyone is performing in front of children. I’m not a libertarian who is afraid of rules and regulations especially ones that protect children. Of course, drag shows should not be BANNED simply because of WHO performs them. I never was for that and never will be.

[allegorical oracle]

60. Understand your point, but seriously doubt that drag "shows" would even think about

performing at schools or libraries. Maybe I'm wrong, but thought the school-library issue was about reading books to kids.

[claudette]

61. I'm not

sure either. That’s why I asked. I saw something online where there was suggestive dancing in front of elementary school kids but I don’t know how reliable that report was.

I believe drag shows in general should not be banned because I think most adults are conscious about their behavior in front of children.

I need to find out exactly what the proposed law is banning.

[In It to Win It]

56. The law seems to broadly capture drag, either "male or female inpersonators"

The complaint listed an example of a cheerleader, saying that if drag queen wears a mini skirt and a crop and performs a routine, that drag queen would be punished under this law. Meanwhile, a cheerleader wearing the exact same clothing and performing the same routine would not punished, because the cheerleader is not a "female impersonator."

[NullTuples]

48. Problem is, some GOP define library reading hour events as "adult" - if the reader is in drag

Even if there is nothing sexual about the costume or material, which is always the case for such events.

[claudette]

54. Then that is

wrong. I said IF

[NullTuples]

64. You may label it wrong, but they still do so and it matters?

Especially if they are able to fashion crafted lawsuits around it - I bet certain federal judges & Supreme Court justices would just love to take the First Amendment and shave off a very few carefully chosen slices. Especially in the name of "religious liberty" or some other such BS.

[In It to Win It]

55. IIRC, the law says drag is prohibited in places where it "could be" seen by a minor

which, theoretically, could be anywhere. That's extremely broad and vague.

[bucolic_frolic]

6. It's right wing projection, to take the heat off assault rifles killing children

nazis, same reasoning.

[RocRizzo55]

7. What I don't understand

Is that it’s okay for women to dress in what is traditionally called “men’s” clothing all day long, and nothing is said about it, but as soon as a man dresses up in clothing traditionally considered “women’s” clothing, all hell breaks loose.
Can someone please explain?

[yardwork]

12. I can explain, by channeling the right-wing patriarchal mindset.

(First, it's important to note that the right-wingers generally don't like it when women wear pants. Note recent requirements enacted in the state house of Florida and others that women must wear dresses or skirts, cover their arms, etc.)

Men wearing dresses is a bridge too far for them. Why? Because these people are obsessed with gender roles. They are obsessed with "protecting" male privilege. They don't want any "mixing." This might lead to people starting to think that the sexes are equal or even (gasp!) that the whole gender-role construct isn't real. That's why they're hysterically fearful of gay people, trans people, anybody being allowed to call themselves non-binary, etc.

It threatens a world view based on the idea that men are superior and in charge. Oh, and that's supposed to be white men, too, but that's another post.

[paleotn]

8. What's protected by the 1st Amendment? Whatever Repukes say is protected or not protected.

Just like any other dictatorship run by fascists and religious nuts. They bend and twist the Constitution to fit their needs at the time. In short, they hate America.

[yardwork]

9. Of course they are.

[mopinko]

10. a trump judge couldnt avoid that conclusion. so, yeah, it is.

[delisen]

11. Legal hook being used is child abuse?

Perhaps someone should ask republican Rudy Giuliani who performed in public this way and had engaged with Donald Trump in his act.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

25. Nope. Adult entertainment angle. Not outlawed, just forbidden to children. . . nt

[NullTuples]

49. But then they could define anything they want as "adult entertainment", no?

Sex education in high school? Adult entertainment.

Books they don't like, such as Huck Finn, Rethinking Columbus, or Maya Angelou's The Heart of a Woman? Adult entertainment.

There are no real constraints, are there?

[TheBlackAdder]

13. Loosely quoting the Pedobear Party: "blah blah blaah something about the children blah blah blah"

[barbtries]

15. they can.

it is.

republicans have nothing to bring to the table. they don't want to govern and they don't know how. so they just stir up shit.

i hate republicans

[Javaman]

16. Because right wing men get funny feelings

They want to suppress anytime they see a man in in “women’s clothing” and a women in “men’s clothing”.

The fear the fabulous. They fear the freedom to be one’s self. they fear freedom. Period

[TheBlackAdder]

35. THIS 👍 How people fantasize about stage actors and singers, they get chubbies for the drag stars.

.

.

[Hortensis]

17. :) Why assume they are not? This is OF COURSE going to the courts.

Illegally legislating against constitutionally protected individual choices has become normal behavior for today's RW extremist party in dozens of states as well as federally.

Just looked -- yesterday a TN judge temporarily blocked their drag block saying it violates free speech. No doubt not the first case on its way, though.

[Marius25]

20. They are. A Republican Judge in Tennessee just blocked a ban on drag shows

for that very reason.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

21. Well, here's a little progress......

Federal judge blocks TN anti-drag bill
WBIR Channel 10

There's also this....

How the ACLU Tracks Anti-LGBTQ Bills, and How We’re Fighting Back
Keep tabs on state legislative attacks against LGBTQ people with the ACLU's nationwide tracking system.

Link: https://www.aclu.org/news/lgbtq-rights/how-the-aclu-tracks-anti-lgbtq-bills

and this: https://www.aclu.org/issues/lgbtq-rights

Republicans are doing these things to create political distractions, knowing damn well they probably won't stand up in court, but they don't care. They just want to gather in a few more rubes under their tent for votes.

Sadly, it will take years in court for the ACLU and others to clean up this current mess of right-wing legislation.....

Anyone with more than a few brain cells will be asking why issues such as drag shows and certain books in school libraries were never an issue before and were not questioned for decades.


KY...........

-------------

[Ferrets are Cool]

23. Thank you.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

24. Are. Nothing is absolute

The loophole magat states use is the erotic, provocative, sexual angle.

They don't outlaw them, just try to make them adults only.

[pwb]

26. Books are protected under the same amendment.

Freedom of the press yet they ban books? Everything they do is to weaken our country.

[sinkingfeeling]

27. They should be. Maybe the courts will get it right, but don't hold your breath.

[intheflow]

29. Just hasn't been litigated this way yet.

When it happens, it should shut this homophonic shit down.

[RobinA]

30. Did Somebody

In a position to decide say they aren't? Has this been tested? Is seems like this whole drag show debate is rather recent, at least on a national scale. It takes awhile for stuff to make its way through the courts.

[Bucky]

31. You're being reasonable, but the magats are treating drag like it's porn

Their fig leaf of a legal argument is that it can be age restricted based on "community values," just like NC-17 movies are, or explicit real world violence is, because of an inherent public interest. Under those circumstances, you can have reasonable guidelines on constitutional rights without legally infringing upon them.

And yes, everybody changes sides when the exact same argument is applied to the Second Amendment and high capacity assault weapons.

[LuckyCharms]

33. Kind of ironic considering that the movie "Mrs. Doubtfire" was generally considered

to be a family film.

The only reason the movie was rated "PG-13" instead of "G" was because of the use of the word "shit" a few times, the use of the word "fuck" one time, and because of scenes involving the drinking alcohol.

Republicans can take any issue at all, make it into something "dirty", and beat it to death until the entire issue is transformed into something unrecognizable and non-sensical.

[Ferrets are Cool]

36. Yes, yes they can, and do.

[claudette]

45. Impersonating a female

isn’t banned. I thought it was drag shows with adult content that are banned. Where is the actual wording of the ban?

[Withywindle]

51. The TN and KY bans absolutely are that draconian

They include language that defines drag as dressed in the clothing of the opposite assigned gender at birth, which could actually be interepreted to prevent transgender people from public speaking or any arts performance like music or theater if children might be present. (or in the case of the KY ban, walking down the street or hanging out in their yard near a school)

The panic targets drag queen story hours, which are G-rated events with drag queens reading age-appropriate children's books.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_panic

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-politics-and-policy/kentucky-bill-ban-drag-shows-1000-feet-schools-parks-homes-rcna71066

"While the bill, SB 115, broadly takes aim at "adult-oriented businesses" — which it also defines to include adult cabarets, strip clubs and adult movie theaters — one of the bill's five co-sponsors said the idea for the bill originated, in part, from concerns over a “family-friendly” drag show in the state."

They are attempting to define ALL "drag" (which to them, also includes trans people existing in public as they're too ignorant and transphobic to make the distinction) as inherently "adult-oriented."

There is not and never has been some epidemic of children going to adult-oriented drag shows at clubs.

[orleans]

57. i just LOVE your last line

There is not and never has been some epidemic of children going to adult-oriented drag shows at clubs.

[LostOne4Ever]

34. It is protected by the first amendment

But the Stolen Supreme Court will ignore that as they rubber stamp anything Reich winger do.

[Midnight Writer]

40. Notice that Republicans do not go after internet porn that any kid can watch endlessly for free.

They know their base.

"You can take my internet porn when you pry it from my sweaty, hairy palms!"

[Ms. Toad]

50. They are.

Unfortunately, establishing that takes time and a significant amount of money to challenge the unconstitutional law.

Drag shows are nowhere near the line the Supreme Court has previously drawn.

Erotic dancing is protected as expressive conduct - as long as the dancer has at least pasties and G-strings on (permitted restriction, narrowly tailored to advance a substantial government interest in morality).

Unless they decide to toss out the previous line.