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Mon Mar 13, 2023, 09:09 PM

Over on CBS news they just reported double billing by Wuhan Lab to US

Last edited Mon Mar 13, 2023, 11:31 PM - Edit history (1)

The U.S. government may have made duplicate payments for projects at labs in Wuhan, China, through the National Institutes of Health (NIH) and U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), according to records reviewed by CBS News.

"What I've found so far is evidence that points to double billing, potential theft of government funds. It is concerning, especially since it involves dangerous pathogens and risky research," said Diane Cutler, a former federal investigator with over two decades of experience combating white-collar crime and healthcare fraud.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-government-agencies-may-have-been-double-billed-projects-wuhan-china-records-indicate-probe/

17 replies, 1147 views

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Reply Over on CBS news they just reported double billing by Wuhan Lab to US (Original post)
womanofthehills Mar 13 OP
Thomas Hurt Mar 13 #1
PSPS Mar 13 #2
womanofthehills Mar 13 #3
Celerity Mar 13 #5
yardwork Mar 13 #4
Sympthsical Mar 13 #6
yardwork Mar 13 #8
Sympthsical Mar 13 #9
dpibel Mar 14 #12
Sympthsical Mar 14 #13
dpibel Mar 14 #14
Sympthsical Mar 14 #15
dpibel Mar 14 #17
womanofthehills Mar 14 #11
yardwork Mar 14 #16
dpibel Mar 13 #7
womanofthehills Mar 13 #10

Response to womanofthehills (Original post)

Mon Mar 13, 2023, 10:01 PM

1. hmm, wonder if the miscreant is a career employee or the Pig appointed him/her.

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Response to Thomas Hurt (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 13, 2023, 10:42 PM

2. She's just another unqualified trump-affiliated loon

1. Her education consists solely of a bachelor degree in English language and literature.
2. She works for Kansas republican senator Roger Marshall, who is another election denier who refuses to say that Biden won the election.

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Response to PSPS (Reply #2)

Mon Mar 13, 2023, 10:47 PM

3. The information was compiled by Diana Cutler

Former gov prosecutor. Are you referring to the prosecutor or the news person?


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Response to womanofthehills (Original post)

Mon Mar 13, 2023, 10:49 PM

4. Gasp!!! More anti-science hand wringing. Some people say!!!

Hair on fire!!!

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Response to yardwork (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 13, 2023, 11:06 PM

6. The refusal to ask questions is anti-science

Science is a process - not a religion. It can be questioned, tested, and researched. People who have been clamoring to ensure no one asks questions or investigate obvious things - and to then attempt to condemn those who ask questions - is about as anti-science as I can think of.

They're thinking of religion with these attitudes.

People are finally looking into questions that a top-down censorship attempt wished to shove deep under the rug. The drip-drip-drip of all this is incredibly interesting. Little stories appearing more and more in the media, officials involved kind of easing into other versions of events, "Well, maybe it could've been . . ."

Narratives crumbling after objective investigation begins uncovering information that was censored is about as pro-science as I can think.

I'll never understand how people let their politics get ahead of science. What was the use? I get why people in power do what they do. I'll never understand why lay people go to bat for this stuff.

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Response to Sympthsical (Reply #6)

Mon Mar 13, 2023, 11:14 PM

8. This isn't asking questions.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #8)

Mon Mar 13, 2023, 11:28 PM

9. Yea. It is.

Id ask why people are so against looking into what happened.

I like the comparison in the story. Itd be like saying an NTSB investigation after a plane crash wasnt warranted, and anyone who wanted one is a conspiracy theorist.

That is just not the scientific play in any universe I live in.

The political and the tribal cannot be a part of science. Ever.

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Response to Sympthsical (Reply #9)

Tue Mar 14, 2023, 12:50 AM

12. About that science

Can you explain to me how a potential financial fraud makes a lab-leak origin of COVID 19 more or less likely as a matter of science?

How would a scientist factor this information into determining the origin of the virus?

I'm not aware that "things that make you go 'hmmm'" is a valid part of a scientific inquiry.

As for the NTSB analogy: It's a bit like saying, "There's evidence that plane was paid for with stolen money! Why isn't the NTSB looking into that? Huh?"

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Response to dpibel (Reply #12)

Tue Mar 14, 2023, 01:04 AM

13. It speaks to the entire situation

Again and again, we see it with this lab. We're not funding this research. Ok, maybe we were funding this research. The lab was fine. Nevermind, the lab was not fine. This could never have happened. Ok, it might have happened.

Again and again, we get these little pieces of information that are very contrary from what we were told in the beginning of things, and all of this was actively suppressed by people in power.

You're not curious? Because I'm real fucking curious. I find this total lack of curiosity curious in itself.

It's another piece of kindling on a situation that is creating an awful lot of smoke for "Nothing happened! Stop questioning!"

It's becoming a very strange story, with each piece speaking to a simple idea: We may not know for certain it came from the lab - but we absolutely know a lot of people ran around, lied, and covered up because it seems like they believed it could have.

More and more, it seems like some people higher up in pharma and government didn't want it to be clear what was going on with this lab.

I think we've reached the point where ignoring this and pretending there is nothing to see here is now an untenable political position - not a scientific one.

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Response to Sympthsical (Reply #13)

Tue Mar 14, 2023, 01:18 AM

14. OK. So not science.

You're reciting things that look hincty. You're stating that there was some kind of coverup.

That's actually political analysis, or detective work.

But you keep hectoring people about rejecting science.

You're not offering any science.

Questions do not equal science.

I think at this point the highest likelihood is that there cannot be a definitive answer where the virus originated or how it got into circulation.

As far as I know, investigation continues. I'm all in favor of that.

As far as I'm concerned everyone with any power should take all possible measures to prevent viruses from jumping from animals to humans and to prevent viruses from escaping from labs.

And the source of COVID 19 changes that opinion not one whit.

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Response to dpibel (Reply #14)

Tue Mar 14, 2023, 03:17 AM

15. I'm hectoring the denial of scientific process

Which includes posing questions, investigating, gathering evidence, testing to see if the evidence bears out the hypothesis, showing the results to the public so that it can be evaluated.

People who want no questions, no evidence gathering, and no discussion cannot then in the next breath say they're defending science.

Science is the process of inquiry. People who would shut down inquiry don't give a shit about science. It's a pretense.

It's very 16th Century Catholic Church. I almost admire the sheer elegance and simplicity of the irony being managed.

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Response to Sympthsical (Reply #15)

Tue Mar 14, 2023, 11:38 AM

17. Tucker Carlson, scientist

Last edited Tue Mar 14, 2023, 04:46 PM - Edit history (1)

This particular rhetorical trick is a bit below your usual skill level.

Your trope is: Scientists ask questions, man. Questions are what science is all about. Therefore, all questions are science and anyone who questions the questions is antiscience (an interesting proposition: In your formulation, anyone who says, "I question your premises" is antiscience, although by asking questions they must perforce be scientists, or at least scientific).

For a quick example: In the course of litigation, one must develop a theory of the case: Why did this thing happen and who is at fault? You test your working theory by asking questions, both of witnesses and of the theory itself. That does not turn lawyers into scientists.

You do realize, I trust, that you are fronting a conspiracy theory. I am not using that in its application as a conversation ender. Conspiracies do happen. But you are pretty avidly advocating the idea that a pretty substantial number of people got together to cover up a great crime.

It may have happened. There may be other motivations for the actions you criticize.

I don't know, nor do you.

I do know that, again, an actual scientist is not going to say, "There was financial funny business at the Wuhan lab. I must take that into account when I look at the mutations of this virus."

I think it would be more comfortable for you, and more convincing to your readers, if you simply said, "I think COVID 19 was developed in the Wuhan lab and accidentally released (or released on purpose, if that's where you are)." I'm not sure what you gain by going on the attack any time anyone questions that narrative.

It seems more obfuscatory than revelatory.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #8)

Tue Mar 14, 2023, 12:34 AM

11. Information keeps dribbling out daily - most of us are curious

FBI just said they knew it was most likely from a lab in 2021 & past CDC director said the same thing. There are reported to be 55 Bio 4 labs and 3000 Bio 3 labs in the world with NO regulations. We had to close Ft Detrick in 2019 for 5 violations in their labs - 2 very serious ones & we are a country that can provide our labs the best of everything. What about labs in very poor countries ? We need to find out what we can because with mega Bio labs around the world, another escape is likely. We knew the Wuhan lab was doing sloppy work as cables were sent by diplomats to warn US that the Wuhan lab had mega safety violations and was doing Bio Lab 4 work in a Bio 2 lab. US now admits we should have been more involved in the research/safety of that lab because of all the grants we gave to Eco Health Alliance for the lab.

This virus is like no others. Yale & Mt Sinai are studying the blood/ immune system of those with Long Covid. Exhausted T cells - similar to those with HIV & cancer. CD 8 cells and natural killer cells are depressed. Most other infections dont ruin peoples immune systems like Covid does. Tons of questions need to be asked. Thousands of people complaining on social media they are constantly sick - cold after cold, flu, pneumonia etc. Sounds like immune systems are trashed. We need to ask a gazillion questions and one is why did we give the Wuhan lab so much money.




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Response to womanofthehills (Reply #11)

Tue Mar 14, 2023, 08:36 AM

16. There are so many incorrect statements in your post I don't know where to begin.

"This virus is like no others..." except that it's "similar to HIV..."

Scientists have warned for decades that coronaviruses are a serious threat to human health. That's why they were studying them.

There are certainly problems in Chiba and it's certain that the U.S. has done terrible things, but could we please not believe everything Fox News and the innuendo that the (running to catch up with the hysteria) MSM says? You have named dedicated public servants in your posts about COVID that make them sound like evil villains in a James Bond movie. These people and the young investigators in their labs are getting death threats. These are the people who developed a vaccine that saved many of our lives. They've worked around the clock for years.

Misinformation is going to get people killed.

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Response to womanofthehills (Original post)

Mon Mar 13, 2023, 11:12 PM

7. Why do you spell it "Wujan"?

There has to be some significance, but I just can't figure out what it is.

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Response to dpibel (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 13, 2023, 11:42 PM

10. I'm tired - no significance

Thanks for catching it - I changed it.

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