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yourout

(7,518 posts)
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 04:54 PM Nov 2012

Tin Foil theory about the Rove meltdown....someone Unhacked Ohio. And he realized he was fucked as..

the actual totals were correct and an audit or recall would have shown an accurate election.

The Rove hack would have been big enough to push the margain outside the recall window to avoid getting caught.

It also explains R$mneys lack of a concession speech.

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Tin Foil theory about the Rove meltdown....someone Unhacked Ohio. And he realized he was fucked as.. (Original Post) yourout Nov 2012 OP
It also explains R$mneys lack of a concession speech. DJ13 Nov 2012 #1
Remember the speech femrap Nov 2012 #20
A lot of us here in Ohio worked our tails off rbrnmw Nov 2012 #58
Ohio Preserved Democracy in Our Republic mckara Nov 2012 #71
+1000 nt ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #76
Bob Fitrakis and Harvey Wasserman Octafish Nov 2012 #160
These two fine men... FarPoint Nov 2012 #204
They also took the SOS of Ohio to Court one day before the election..... robinlynne Nov 2012 #208
Right...two true-blue American heroes, Raksha Nov 2012 #221
Thank you Ohioans!!! Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2012 #200
Proud of Ohio, indeed! October Nov 2012 #118
thank you for all you did..n/t oldhippydude Nov 2012 #203
he, he, he... ha, ha, ha... defacto7 Nov 2012 #79
Sweet karma indeed. '04 was heartbreaking. It took a long time to get over that. Doremus Nov 2012 #120
November 2004, a couple of weeks after the election, was when I found DU also. Raksha Nov 2012 #156
Me too. I found DU right after the 2004 election. mary195149 Nov 2012 #207
That was my first thought - Anonymous did it! liberalla Nov 2012 #167
Anonymous femrap Nov 2012 #175
that would be a level of political competence Democrats haven't shown in at least a decade yurbud Nov 2012 #88
I don't think ti was the Democrats. It was Bob Fitrakis, from the green party, who took Husted, the robinlynne Nov 2012 #209
For a quick second on Tuesday I got the same sinking feeling in my gut... truebrit71 Nov 2012 #2
Additionally they thought they were going to be successful in suppressing the vote malaise Nov 2012 #171
Me too MA Mom Nov 2012 #233
Hoisted by his own petard, Mme. Defarge Nov 2012 #3
Um, make that "Husted by his own petard" :) - n/t coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #123
Hee! Lucy Goosey Nov 2012 #132
I stand corrected, nt Mme. Defarge Nov 2012 #195
I don't even think they were ever close to winning Ohio LynneSin Nov 2012 #4
Husted, OH's femrap Nov 2012 #22
It was clear from Karl's sputtering and hair on fire demeanor that something he was Grammy23 Nov 2012 #5
+1 My thoughts exactly. wandy Nov 2012 #16
I think Husted and Kasich lost their nerve. hifiguy Nov 2012 #35
ah, now THAT seems plausible to me. Rather than someone unhacking the hacked software, pnwest Nov 2012 #47
There was a federal judge watching because lawsuits were filed in Ohio about the software! robinlynne Nov 2012 #211
I'm coming down on your side ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #74
It's the only thing that both explains Rove's hifiguy Nov 2012 #75
Those patches! Generic Other Nov 2012 #131
It didn't exactly fail. the Judge said he was open to investigation after the eleciton if there were robinlynne Nov 2012 #212
I agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #219
Boom. hifiguy Nov 2012 #222
yes. now how do we let 3 million+ people know this? robinlynne Nov 2012 #229
I think we have a winner! eom BlueMTexpat Nov 2012 #107
I think the IT guy chickened out malaise Nov 2012 #133
exactly musette_sf Nov 2012 #176
I agree. This IS what happened. Frank Cannon Nov 2012 #193
It became apparent to Husted or someone else hifiguy Nov 2012 #196
+ lonestarnot Nov 2012 #194
That is my take on this.... cold feet. FarPoint Nov 2012 #206
BINGO kestrel91316 Nov 2012 #50
+1 those were my thoughts as well Ya Basta Nov 2012 #52
I agree with you...and welcome to DU! DonRedwood Nov 2012 #86
Its nice to be around like minded folks.. :) Ya Basta Nov 2012 #130
+1000 nt ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #77
May he drift off into obscurity. AlbertCat Nov 2012 #84
they would have lost anyway, even with Ohio....so maybe someone unhacked it due to the futility and amborin Nov 2012 #114
I think his response and demeanor "proves" he thought the fix was in. raging_moderate Nov 2012 #115
It reminded me of the trading floor in "Trading Places" no_hypocrisy Nov 2012 #217
That would be some sweet revenge Blue Owl Nov 2012 #6
web site for ohio did go down but questionseverything Nov 2012 #24
Tin foil hat firmly on sylvanus Nov 2012 #7
Hey there sylvanus.... femrap Nov 2012 #23
Welcome to DU. Vincardog Nov 2012 #68
like the scene in "Quiz Show" Enrique Nov 2012 #8
Yes, exactly! Arugula Latte Nov 2012 #27
Husted's software patch didn't work oswaldactedalone Nov 2012 #9
Did it occur to anyone that the "Patch" mattvermont Nov 2012 #13
Excellent theory! soleft Nov 2012 #17
NO way.... femrap Nov 2012 #26
these types have no loyalty fascisthunter Nov 2012 #90
Nor would Husted take a Federal rap for Rove in an already lost effort. Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #139
Hmmm! Kber Nov 2012 #28
anonymous...was....nt Evasporque Nov 2012 #34
Yes, I thought of that. lobointexas Nov 2012 #48
Do you - or anyone else - have a link to the video? Whiskeytide Nov 2012 #182
that thought occured to me too... oldhippydude Nov 2012 #87
That was exactly our theory on Tuesday night. n/t dogknob Nov 2012 #92
continuing the theory... adamuu Nov 2012 #180
Anonymous issues warning to Rove on Friday Evasporque Nov 2012 #228
The patch was bullshit conspiracy demwing Nov 2012 #80
Maybe something like this: The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2012 #10
Makes 100% sense to me. WinkyDink Nov 2012 #25
Agreed, but w/one caveat ... brett_jv Nov 2012 #63
Sounds plausible. nt ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #82
Works for me Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2012 #31
Husted has femrap Nov 2012 #32
I think that is exactly what happened. hifiguy Nov 2012 #36
I think you're right, or close, and should start writing the screenplay Voice for Peace Nov 2012 #43
I'm wondering if Karl is going to meet with an "accident". GoneOffShore Nov 2012 #61
If that's the case, Husted should watch his back LiberalEsto Nov 2012 #103
This message was self-deleted by its author guyton Nov 2012 #105
I absolutely loved the part when Megan Kelly got up from her seat and walked a kennedy Nov 2012 #11
I actually unblocked faux for the first time and watched it happen! louis-t Nov 2012 #18
I missed it live because I had it blocked, too! Patiod Nov 2012 #21
I missed it too (no TV) but the videos beac Nov 2012 #169
Thanks - those images never get old! Patiod Nov 2012 #173
the video in the first link brettdale Nov 2012 #230
Watched his meldown live also... ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #85
I've watched it femrap Nov 2012 #33
that was a bizarre scene - she said "when we rehearsed this" as she was walking down the hall central scrutinizer Nov 2012 #59
Rehearsal johnq45 Nov 2012 #78
Yeah, that was really strange caraher Nov 2012 #111
Yes, I saw it! Did you also see... CoffeeCat Nov 2012 #157
I Know. She walks down there to basically ask, "You know that extremely important decision you just Dark n Stormy Knight Nov 2012 #164
I've been saying for some time I thought they had a "fix" in for Ohio. Something went wrong. OregonBlue Nov 2012 #12
My understanding femrap Nov 2012 #38
Maybe the work of Anonymous should be spoken of in whispers or not at all Voice for Peace Nov 2012 #44
OK...I'll femrap Nov 2012 #49
dang, forgive me Almighty Cat.. how could I do that, I'm ashamed as all my cats are now giving me Voice for Peace Nov 2012 #57
And it did not matter. Because Obama won IA, CO, NV, WI, and NH. Jennicut Nov 2012 #14
There were Repukes saying the Willard would win Minnesota. hifiguy Nov 2012 #37
True.... femrap Nov 2012 #42
+1 nt ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #89
I just think that whatever was planned with Ohio ended up being moot--and the Ohio SoS TwilightGardener Nov 2012 #15
It was a staged and planned walkback of his previous optimism. JBoy Nov 2012 #19
This ^^ Beowulf Nov 2012 #30
That is not what she meant obamanut2012 Nov 2012 #154
That us what she said. I Tivoed it... CoffeeCat Nov 2012 #159
I agree caraher Nov 2012 #112
The best forensic computer scientists come from blue states Brother Buzz Nov 2012 #29
I do believe that Romney was convinced that they had suppressed enough of the vote to "win." yardwork Nov 2012 #39
Isn't there a category beyond tin foil? Coyotl Nov 2012 #40
Yeah. Treason. Octafish Nov 2012 #158
Truth is stranger than fiction texpatriot2004 Nov 2012 #179
nope. There was a lawsuit in Ohio. A judge was watching. The Ohio election website went off the air robinlynne Nov 2012 #41
I remember that femrap Nov 2012 #45
but Husted had a judge watching him becuase Bob Fitrakis filed a lawsuit on monday morning. robinlynne Nov 2012 #53
That also plays in to my "chickened out" scenario. hifiguy Nov 2012 #62
I believe what you describe is probably exactly what happened. robinlynne Nov 2012 #67
+1 nt ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #93
I jsut posted a new OP with mark Crispin's analysis and Victoria Collier's of election night in Ohio robinlynne Nov 2012 #119
Wow, I just had a little frisson at your malapropism. I believe you meant "Husted" and not coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #128
I am reading Sy Hersh's book about hifiguy Nov 2012 #129
And "Segretti" means "secrets" in Italian. Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2012 #226
I read that femrap Nov 2012 #134
Do you have a link to that specific story robinlynne? Emit Nov 2012 #51
will find you a better link, to mark Crispin miller. give me a minute. robinlynne Nov 2012 #54
here you go: robinlynne Nov 2012 #55
Thank you so much! Emit Nov 2012 #60
A GREAT post, robin! hifiguy Nov 2012 #64
This is from Mark Crispin Miller, an Election Protection advocate. one of the best. robinlynne Nov 2012 #65
+1000 nt ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #98
WOW! Thank you so much Carolina Nov 2012 #124
I believe that word was passed to other SOS about the machines. When I went to vote in rural LiberalArkie Nov 2012 #127
here you go: leanforward Nov 2012 #153
They projected winning results because they own the voting machines. As Bush did, to steal an robinlynne Nov 2012 #162
Interesting remarks about "leftist pundits"; I remember when Jerry Rubin became a stockbroker. WinkyDink Nov 2012 #170
In 2004, I recall the time as being around 11 p.m. I remember going downtown pissed as hell at lonestarnot Nov 2012 #197
Let's not forget what happened to Mike Connell. Raksha Nov 2012 #224
There's an article around here about how angry the federal judge was with Husted's people on Friday. yardwork Nov 2012 #94
When a federal judge has you under his or her hifiguy Nov 2012 #126
who is Kasich? robinlynne Nov 2012 #137
OH governor. nt hifiguy Nov 2012 #141
got it. robinlynne Nov 2012 #144
Husted is sickening. Here's the link I mentioned upthread: yardwork Nov 2012 #146
Wow. Federal judges do not dress down hifiguy Nov 2012 #149
Tagg Rmoney's company owns the OH voting machines. I guarantee you they tried to rig them. kestrel91316 Nov 2012 #46
This is my theory "turnout was so high that the rig was inadequate" Carni Nov 2012 #66
Agree. Plus, the exit pollsters were watching like hawks this time. McCamy Taylor Nov 2012 #69
Yes! Carni Nov 2012 #121
That was 2008. this time it was a judge's, and public, awareness. robinlynne Nov 2012 #102
THIS is what I think, as well. October Nov 2012 #116
No, I think they were just arrogant, especially Romney. cui bono Nov 2012 #56
I agree, just said the same smackd Nov 2012 #148
Exactly! I was convinced they were about to alter the vote count . . . But the Ohio SOS abruptly Liberal In Red State Nov 2012 #70
That sounds very plausible tinrobot Nov 2012 #99
not by the AG. By a judge because of Bob Fitrakis'' lawsuit. Holder did NOTHING. election protection robinlynne Nov 2012 #104
Even with Ohio, Romney loses. Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #72
80% of American votes are counted by private corporations, just as they are in Ohio. robinlynne Nov 2012 #125
Oooookay, but what does that have to do with Obama winning Ohio? Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #140
the fix is possible all over the country right now. same as i Ohio. the same companies who "fixed' o robinlynne Nov 2012 #143
Not possible. They would need to 'fix' every swing state, and any state that was even close. Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #145
Private republican owned companies count 80% of American votes. Think about that for a minute. robinlynne Nov 2012 #163
They could not have "fixed" California - our SoS got rid of the bad voting machines Merlot Nov 2012 #155
not quite. the bad voting amchine company scans and counts the votes here in Claifornia. the same robinlynne Nov 2012 #161
true, but we don't have the touch screens Merlot Nov 2012 #198
not ours. No candidate's names are written on our ballots. just numbers. robinlynne Nov 2012 #201
Here's my theory CitizenPatriot Nov 2012 #73
Cuyahoga is a big county. I believe it always comes in last. LisaL Nov 2012 #215
Speaking of unhacked donqpublic Nov 2012 #81
If that were the case Rove would have known about it. What ever it was Rove sure looked shocked. yourout Nov 2012 #96
iF you recall, Rove said he was on the phone with Husted! robinlynne Nov 2012 #106
That is another reason I think someone undid the Hack. It's actually fricking brilliant if they did. yourout Nov 2012 #109
no. Read post# 97. It explains exactly what really happened. It is important for people to be aware robinlynne Nov 2012 #113
Husted went home early ... dawnie51 Nov 2012 #83
He was probably escaping Rove's thugs. tinrobot Nov 2012 #95
we were watching Botany Nov 2012 #91
They got cold feet. FamilyMan Nov 2012 #97
exactly!!!! you get it. robinlynne Nov 2012 #110
They got cold feet. leanforward Nov 2012 #136
Everyone read post #97!!! Brilliant. n/m TheBluestEye Nov 2012 #166
Very good. n/t bleever Nov 2012 #186
Hustled realized the margin was too big Blue4Texas Nov 2012 #213
Bradblog reported this yesterday...and Fatarkis (sp?) will prosecute re: the patches amborin Nov 2012 #100
the entire state election server went down, I believe. Exactly as it happened in 2004. robinlynne Nov 2012 #108
What an entertaining thread.... ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #101
I wouldn't put anything past them but am so glad that this part is over Shilo Nov 2012 #117
It is not over... FamilyMan Nov 2012 #135
and that is just Ohio. Private corporations count our votes here in blue states as well. And they t robinlynne Nov 2012 #138
link to a thread with Mark Crispin Miller's analysis of Ohio 2012, and what happened robinlynne Nov 2012 #122
Inspired by that look on his face, which was so, "Remote control ... not ... working!" DirkGently Nov 2012 #142
Occam's Razor smackd Nov 2012 #147
+1 D23MIURG23 Nov 2012 #151
This is ad-hoc BS. D23MIURG23 Nov 2012 #150
heh RobertEarl Nov 2012 #165
Yup, thats right. D23MIURG23 Nov 2012 #189
I think it works without needing to be literally true DirkGently Nov 2012 #187
I'm specifically interested in the vote hacking accusation, because it is unsubstantiated. D23MIURG23 Nov 2012 #191
"You mad, bro? We told you we were coming." Zorra Nov 2012 #152
That's crazy talk RomneyLies Nov 2012 #168
because that never happened before musette_sf Nov 2012 #177
Yes, because it never happened before RomneyLies Nov 2012 #178
that random leap of blatant false equivalency musette_sf Nov 2012 #181
And as is always the case for the conspiracy theorists RomneyLies Nov 2012 #183
and so your best defense musette_sf Nov 2012 #184
There is no false equivalency RomneyLies Nov 2012 #185
Your belief in our government's purity is touching. WinkyDink Nov 2012 #223
You belief in long discredited conspiracy theories is disturbing. RomneyLies Nov 2012 #225
You win the "Pristine Bullet Award." Or would you prefer the "Secret Government Syphilis Testing on WinkyDink Nov 2012 #227
Its only a false equivalency if the vote flipping conspiracy is resting on better evidence. D23MIURG23 Nov 2012 #192
There's more than just "analysis" as evidence Tsiyu Nov 2012 #218
OK, then where is it? D23MIURG23 Nov 2012 #220
Okay n/t Tsiyu Nov 2012 #231
Thats what I thought; all you have are empty assertions. n/t D23MIURG23 Nov 2012 #232
+1 D23MIURG23 Nov 2012 #190
I think you are on to something. Odin2005 Nov 2012 #172
Anonymous? AllyCat Nov 2012 #174
In the movie version... ThoughtCriminal Nov 2012 #188
In the video of the meltdown, he specifically mentioned Hamilton County Samantha Nov 2012 #199
This message was self-deleted by its author LisaL Nov 2012 #202
Obama actually won Hamilton county. LisaL Nov 2012 #205
It was said pretty often before the election whoever won Hamilton County would win Ohio Samantha Nov 2012 #210
Not tin foil. elleng Nov 2012 #214
What I find delicious is that even though we may not know exactly what happened libdem4life Nov 2012 #216

DJ13

(23,671 posts)
1. It also explains R$mneys lack of a concession speech.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:00 PM
Nov 2012

And it might explain why our party wasnt too concerned....

They already knew about it, and had reverted the software back to being accurate.

 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
20. Remember the speech
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:27 PM
Nov 2012

to KKKarl from Anonymous a few weeks ago????

Now Anonymous knows how to HACK!!!

I think it explains why he was having such a hissy fit over accepting the Ohio call for Obama.

But even without Ohio, Obama would have won.

But it is truly SWEET KARMA that it was OHIO that put Obama over the TOP! I get goosebumps thinking about it..especially since I was in OH in '04 when that Election was stolen.

This is what RobMe was banking on...another one of KKKarl's little tricks.

rbrnmw

(7,160 posts)
58. A lot of us here in Ohio worked our tails off
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:23 PM
Nov 2012

Trying to get President Obama reelected so I was so proud the Buckeye State put him over the 270 mark.

 

mckara

(1,708 posts)
71. Ohio Preserved Democracy in Our Republic
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:08 PM
Nov 2012

You have every right to be proud of your dedication to having the Voice of the People being heard.
Thanks to you and all your friends!

FarPoint

(12,179 posts)
204. These two fine men...
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:31 AM
Nov 2012

They never rested....relentlessly staying ontop of and instep with the voter criminals....calling them out!

Raksha

(7,167 posts)
221. Right...two true-blue American heroes,
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:49 PM
Nov 2012

Bob Fitrakis and Harvey Wasserman. For 12 long years they kept fighting and never gave up.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
200. Thank you Ohioans!!!
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:26 AM
Nov 2012

I'm one-half Ohioan, as my father was from Ashtabula (Ashtabula High, 1929) and also went to school in Geneva, learned to swim in Lake Erie.

Doremus

(7,261 posts)
120. Sweet karma indeed. '04 was heartbreaking. It took a long time to get over that.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 08:08 PM
Nov 2012

That was when I found DU. I literally couldn't stand another minute on the other chat board I belonged to, with all the repukes gloating and ridiculing those of us who knew the state had been stolen.

Raksha

(7,167 posts)
156. November 2004, a couple of weeks after the election, was when I found DU also.
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 12:19 AM
Nov 2012

I knew from the first day that the election was stolen, and DU was the only discussion board where people talked about it openly--other "liberal" websites very much included!

mary195149

(379 posts)
207. Me too. I found DU right after the 2004 election.
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:42 AM
Nov 2012

Knew it was stolen but back then truly believed the Repubs would get caught with so many discrepancys.
It was hard to believe, they took another election, just like 2000.
We are always so fearful anymore of stolen elections, we know they used voter suppression in this election, but I wonder how many votes the Repubs managed to flip.

 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
175. Anonymous
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 11:56 AM
Nov 2012

loves JUSTICE AND THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!!

We'll probably never know...but I still thank them as do you.

robinlynne

(15,481 posts)
209. I don't think ti was the Democrats. It was Bob Fitrakis, from the green party, who took Husted, the
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:46 AM
Nov 2012

SOS of Ohio, to COUrt MOnday before the election. That is why, I believe Ohio was not stolen. there was a federal judge watching who said he would investigate if necessary.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
2. For a quick second on Tuesday I got the same sinking feeling in my gut...
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:03 PM
Nov 2012

...kinda like when they called FL for Al Gore in 2000 and they went to Lt AWOL's HQ and the chimp himself said "i'd re-check those Florida numbers if I were you"...and that's when I knew the fix was in...

I momentarily thought the same thing when TurdFace started squawking on Tuesday night...But then I just realized he was full of shit and desperately hoping to stay alive based on the promises he had made..

I thought for a second that they ONLY reason he was so adamant was because he KNEW Ohio had been fixed and somehow the sheer volume of voters had over-ridden the fix....

Still doesn't explain the lack of a concession speech other than a fucking ginormous ego...

malaise

(267,455 posts)
171. Additionally they thought they were going to be successful in suppressing the vote
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 09:27 AM
Nov 2012

but even the Supreme Court sent them packing.

MA Mom

(21 posts)
233. Me too
Fri Nov 16, 2012, 06:53 AM
Nov 2012

When Rove started freaking out I got that sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I kept waiting for the shoe to drop.

And I definitely think there was a real reason behind his freakout that night. Either the fix was hacked, or the fix wasn't enough, or something. But I firmly believe there was a planned fix of some sort that just didn't go as intended.

LynneSin

(95,337 posts)
4. I don't even think they were ever close to winning Ohio
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:05 PM
Nov 2012

Personally I think if Ohio was investigated we'd find that Obama actually won with more votes that what was counted.

And in the end we never needed Ohio to win.

 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
22. Husted, OH's
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:32 PM
Nov 2012

SoS would have done everything in his power to stop a recount. And in the deep red counties of Ohio, the votes would have been tampered with. No, it had to be called that night for Obama or he'd done the same thing as Kenny Blackwell in /04.

I'm going with Anonymous....they are Super Hackers and they had warned KKKarl a few weeks ago.

But you're right....we didn't need OH, but it sure was sweet.

The way KKKarl kept pointing to his little white board filled w/ his numbers. He kept showing it...like his numbers were TRUE FACT!!!

Grammy23

(5,806 posts)
5. It was clear from Karl's sputtering and hair on fire demeanor that something he was
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:05 PM
Nov 2012
EXPECTING to happen did not happen that night. He seemed frantic and quite unhinged. All his beautiful plans dissolving in front of his eyes. Even after they explained why the math was not there for them, he seemed incredulous that he lost. If the fix had been in, something got "unfixed" and that was unfathomable to him. Couldn't happen to a more deserving guy. May he drift off into obscurity. So let it be written, so let it be done!
 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
35. I think Husted and Kasich lost their nerve.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:47 PM
Nov 2012

There would have been a gigantic investigation in which lots of people with R after their names got sent to the pokey. They chickened out and ratfucked Rover.

pnwest

(3,263 posts)
47. ah, now THAT seems plausible to me. Rather than someone unhacking the hacked software,
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:06 PM
Nov 2012

I can buy that it was SUPPOSED to be hacked, but that in the end, someone lost their nerve because it was so evident the country was on to them. It would have been investigated, and you're right, someone would have gone to the pokey. I don't think they'd have gotten away with it this time, and the person who was supposed to do the deed chickened out.

Good call!

robinlynne

(15,481 posts)
211. There was a federal judge watching because lawsuits were filed in Ohio about the software!
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:49 AM
Nov 2012

They stuck software patches on the computers 3 days before the election. they got caught doing that by election protection advocates. (from teh Green Party no less! So stop it yee who bitch and moan about third parties.)

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
74. I'm coming down on your side ...
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:12 PM
Nov 2012

with this one. When the law suit regarding the "patches" failed, I think someone whispered to Husted and/or Kasich, "You know what? If a single Federal judge issues a warrant to seize the tabulator, we're gonna go to jail for a long, long time. And everyone that's involved in this is gonna point the finger directly at us."

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
75. It's the only thing that both explains Rove's
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:15 PM
Nov 2012

colossal and irrational meltdown which doesn't require some big conspiracy.

robinlynne

(15,481 posts)
212. It didn't exactly fail. the Judge said he was open to investigation after the eleciton if there were
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:50 AM
Nov 2012

a reason to. That lawsuit may have saved our democracy. I don't call it a fail.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
219. I agree ...
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 12:56 PM
Nov 2012

While the suit was dismissed (the basis for my terming the suit a failure), the judge put the gop on notice that they could not get away with the flip without subjecting themselves to prison. I suspect that the judge sensed the stench, but did not have enough to upset an election (a very high standard), but posted a proverbial cop to the beat ... just in case.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
222. Boom.
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:51 PM
Nov 2012

You, sir, have the correct answer. And Husted decided that prison was not his preferred option.

Frank Cannon

(7,570 posts)
193. I agree. This IS what happened.
Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:17 AM
Nov 2012

The fix was in, but at the last minute, the fixers lost their nerve. There was no way they were going to explain their results, given the way the rest of the country was going. No one wants to go to jail for Karl Rove, and so they bailed.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
196. It became apparent to Husted or someone else
Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:44 AM
Nov 2012

(Kasich?) that Ohio wasn't going to matter. Who the fuck in their right mind would then volunteer to spend 10+ years in a hard core, heavy-duty federal slammer to protect KKKarl Rove. Nobody, that's who. Self-preservation kicks in at some point.

FarPoint

(12,179 posts)
206. That is my take on this.... cold feet.
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:39 AM
Nov 2012

Bob Fritrakis and company were on Husted 24/7 taking his fraudulent shenanigans to Court immediately.

Then, Husted was exposed Nationally by MSNBC starting with the firing of Dennis Lieberman and Tom Ritchy, the Montgomery County Board of Election Officials over weekend voting. From that day forward...all eyes were on them.

 

Ya Basta

(391 posts)
52. +1 those were my thoughts as well
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:13 PM
Nov 2012

I thought it was written all over his face and also in the overly confident Romney demeanor as well. He just had a smirk on his face like he was told don't worry about it, the fix is in for you.

Well that's my two cents anyway.

DonRedwood

(4,359 posts)
86. I agree with you...and welcome to DU!
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:31 PM
Nov 2012

I was watching FOX when he had his little meltdown. So building up to that outburst and his cocky demeanor all evening, really showed he was 100% sure Romney would win Ohio. Not "sure" like the polls said they would win, but "sure" as in, "this is all bought and paid for and in the bag."

He knew it would work, as it had before. So he really was shocked.

But I'm not sure went wrong. I figure one of two things: his buddies backed out and didn't do what they were supposed to do or Obama had such a turnout that it overwhelmed their fudged numbers.

I'm really thinking though, it only takes one bad county to make the difference. Like that lady in Wisconsin with the bad numbers that benifitted Walker, Get one bad egg doing your vote manipulation and you can win the election.

 

Ya Basta

(391 posts)
130. Its nice to be around like minded folks.. :)
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 08:42 PM
Nov 2012

What ever happened. Glad it all worked out for the best and we can at least all breath a big sigh of relief. Plus its fun to watch the wingnuts have a melt down.



 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
84. May he drift off into obscurity.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:28 PM
Nov 2012

But not so obscure that those donors who gave him millions to defeat Obama can't find him.



(besides, I'm sure he should be in jail....for something....)

amborin

(16,631 posts)
114. they would have lost anyway, even with Ohio....so maybe someone unhacked it due to the futility and
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 08:00 PM
Nov 2012

the chance of getting caught?

raging_moderate

(147 posts)
115. I think his response and demeanor "proves" he thought the fix was in.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 08:01 PM
Nov 2012

It kind of reminds me of the scene in the movie The Sting in which the Paul Newman beats the poker cheat by cheating better than him. The cheater is incredulous and furious because he knows why he was beat, but can't prove it to anybody because that would require admitting his own ways. Perfect.

I still was hoping (and still am) that Anonymous or another similar entity will throw a large enough election to finally show the general US public what can (and likely already has been) happen for once and for all. Kind of like how somebody hacked into the school board election (in Maryland??) and had Bender the drunken robot character from Futurama win, but bigger. It's going to take something too big to ignore to get our system safe again.

no_hypocrisy

(45,625 posts)
217. It reminded me of the trading floor in "Trading Places"
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:04 AM
Nov 2012

as the Duke Brothers watched the price of frozen orange juice plummet in front of their eyes, having relied on purchased inside information.

Blue Owl

(49,739 posts)
6. That would be some sweet revenge
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:07 PM
Nov 2012

Since all this vote flipping crap happens behind the scenes in a non-verifiable, non-transparent setting -- I am just going to pretend that's how it went down!

 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
23. Hey there sylvanus....
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:36 PM
Nov 2012

I just said the same thing up-thread!

I believe it was Anonymous, too. I watched the video twice. They are Super Hackers unlike widdle KKKarl's hackers.

Welcome to DU! This is your first post...come on, you're with Anonymous.

I wish someone would teach me to hack...seriously, I want to hack Corporate CEO emails so I can put them in jail!

Enrique

(27,461 posts)
8. like the scene in "Quiz Show"
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:08 PM
Nov 2012

where the host does a double-take when the guy answers the question correctly.

mattvermont

(646 posts)
13. Did it occur to anyone that the "Patch"
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:17 PM
Nov 2012

was actually a switch back to equity? Someone could have been on to them, so they had to cover their asses

 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
26. NO way....
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:38 PM
Nov 2012

you don't know Husted, OH SoS. He's a rapid repugnant....taking suppression measures all the way to the Supreme Court. He has been in OH politics for a long time....a real shit head. I can't think of a word bad enough to describe him. He'd do anything for KKKarl.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
139. Nor would Husted take a Federal rap for Rove in an already lost effort.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 09:59 PM
Nov 2012

If *I" knew that Obama had won as soon as Pennsylvania was called, I am sure that Husted could figure it out, too.

lobointexas

(85 posts)
48. Yes, I thought of that.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:07 PM
Nov 2012

When I was driving with my son yesterday, I told him that I thought the "patch" actually made the machine counts correct. Last week I told he and my wife about Anonymous and showed them the video.

I think there may have been more than just the video. Anonymous may have "proven" they were on top of it.

oldhippydude

(2,514 posts)
87. that thought occured to me too...
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:32 PM
Nov 2012

there were numerous OFA observers, DOJ, and even UN observers.. that was my hypothesis is the "patch" was restoring the machines to nuetral in fear of being caught..

adamuu

(2,099 posts)
180. continuing the theory...
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 12:38 PM
Nov 2012

how about because someone realized Obama could win without Ohio. The thieves realized they would have to hack more than just Ohio. Why take that much personal risk for something that is no longer likely to affect the outcome in your favor?

Evasporque

(2,133 posts)
228. Anonymous issues warning to Rove on Friday
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:47 PM
Nov 2012

Monday the "emergency" patches were applied...or they were applied but the code was "unhacked"....

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,070 posts)
10. Maybe something like this:
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:12 PM
Nov 2012

$370 million can buy a lot of favors as well as a lot of ads. So suppose Rove paid or promised to pay the OH SoS, Husted, a bunch of money for getting that dodgy uncertified software patch installed in the voting machines. The software could have been designed to randomly flip Obama votes to Romney votes in various precincts in such a way that no obvious pattern can be observed and the margin is just enough to win but not so large as to raise suspicions and trigger some kind of audit or lawsuit.

However, Husted and the software patch are getting more scrutiny than anybody anticipated. So at the last minute Husted, fearing exposure and possible prison, gets cold feet; he decides that whatever Rove promised him isn't worth the risk and aborts the "mission." Meanwhile Rove is live on Fox "news" arguing that it's too soon to call OH for Obama because he expects the flipped votes to start coming in - but they don't. Also meanwhile, Romney, who because of the campaign's delusional bullshit polls (and maybe expecting the Rove/Husted fix to come in) didn't expect the other swing states to go for Obama, is writing his victory speech and planning a fireworks display in Boston.

So Rove is wetting his pants on national television because the Romney votes he expected aren't showing up and he knows he'll have a lotta 'splainin' to offer those big donors who are getting nothing for their millions. Was he just delusional about Romney's chances of success or was he pissing tacks because a vote-flipping scheme had failed?

We may never know. But I think Oliver Stone should make a movie about Rove someday.

brett_jv

(1,245 posts)
63. Agreed, but w/one caveat ...
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:32 PM
Nov 2012

If you're going to risk something like this, you wouldn't try it unless you thought that it was going to be the difference maker. I think there'd have been 'triggers' ... signs like being ahead by X% in Virginia, Pennsylvania, etc. It was probably all set to be switched on if certain conditions were being met, perhaps in an automated fashion. And then ... they weren't met, so the hack was never 'turned on'.

 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
32. Husted has
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:44 PM
Nov 2012

no damn conscience. People like him....they think they are above the law. They believe they will never see the inside of a jail. You know the type! No, Husted wouldn't get scared. No way.

This was going to be his ticket into NATIONAL POLITICS. I know how these guys operate. I've worked w/ them. They believe their shit does not smell....and that they will never be caught!

I'm staying with Anonymous....plus it's Good over Evil. I like that.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
36. I think that is exactly what happened.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:49 PM
Nov 2012

Last edited Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:25 PM - Edit history (2)

The fixers lost their nerve and left ol' KKKarl holding the bag and blowing gaskets.

ETA: It's one thing to knock over the casino eight years ago (which KKKarl did with the connivance of Ken Blackwell) and that takes guts, but it really takes brass balls to try and knock over the same casino a second time. Whatever Rover offered wasn't enough to convince Husted and Kasich to risk some heavy prison time given the microscope that was on Ohio this time around. They chickened out to save their own skins.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
43. I think you're right, or close, and should start writing the screenplay
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:59 PM
Nov 2012

to ensure your fortune before somebody else does...
you described it so well.

GoneOffShore

(17,303 posts)
61. I'm wondering if Karl is going to meet with an "accident".
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:29 PM
Nov 2012

All those big money donors who thought that they were buying a majority and the White House are major league pissed. And who are they most pissed at? The guy who said he could do it.

I think if I were Karl, I'd be sitting with a good view of the doors and checking under the car every time before I started it up. And I wouldn't be flying in small planes.

Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #10)

a kennedy

(29,406 posts)
11. I absolutely loved the part when Megan Kelly got up from her seat and walked
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:13 PM
Nov 2012

into the area where the faux noise "bean counters" had called Ohio for the POTUS. that was priceless......that was during the first segment that ham man was blowing his gasket. Absolutely loved it. Did anyone else see that??

louis-t

(23,175 posts)
18. I actually unblocked faux for the first time and watched it happen!
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:22 PM
Nov 2012

It was creepy over there. I felt sick.

Patiod

(11,816 posts)
21. I missed it live because I had it blocked, too!
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:28 PM
Nov 2012

My idiot brother was staying with us for a few days, and I didn't want to fight over Fox "News" so I removed it from the menu.

Took a few minutes to figure out how to unblock it once DU alerted me that there was some great stuff on that channel Tuesday night, and I missed it.

Patiod

(11,816 posts)
173. Thanks - those images never get old!
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 11:21 AM
Nov 2012

As we watched the coverage after a LONG day at the polls, my SO asked what wine I wanted to drink.

I said "whatever goes best with the bitterness of Republican tears".

central scrutinizer

(11,609 posts)
59. that was a bizarre scene - she said "when we rehearsed this" as she was walking down the hall
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:27 PM
Nov 2012

WTF did that mean - the whole shtick was scripted? Although she did have the best line, "Is that real math or math you do to make yourself feel better?"

 

johnq45

(33 posts)
78. Rehearsal
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:26 PM
Nov 2012

I caught her stating that they had rehearsed it to and I immediately thought, YOU REHEARSED THIS SPONTANEOUS QUESTIONING OF ROVES NUMBERS??????? WTF?

caraher

(6,276 posts)
111. Yeah, that was really strange
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:55 PM
Nov 2012

That's part of why I think Rove's whole meltdown was staged, and that he in fact did not actually freak out.

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
157. Yes, I saw it! Did you also see...
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 01:25 AM
Nov 2012

The scene at the Fox News desk with a dark-haired guy who said he was going to find Karl Rove and ask him about the Ohio numbers? The camera was only on this dark haired guy. Just as he said that he would find Rove, the camera panned out and Rove had been sitting right next to him the entire time!!!


It was very bizarre. My husband said, "Did you just see that???" We hit rewind, watched it again and laughed our asses off.

The entire Fox staff was in shreds.

Anyone else see that??

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,760 posts)
164. I Know. She walks down there to basically ask, "You know that extremely important decision you just
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 02:48 AM
Nov 2012

announced about the presidential election? Yeah, I was just wondering, did you really mean to say what you said?"

What a stupid fucking question.

OregonBlue

(7,743 posts)
12. I've been saying for some time I thought they had a "fix" in for Ohio. Something went wrong.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:13 PM
Nov 2012

Kerry was there the day before and the Dems didn't seem too worried. I believe they either "unfixed" the software that communicates to the SOS office or some Dem precincts didn't report until late. If they don't report until later, the GOP operatives don't know how much they have to add to their totals to have Romney "win". I believe that is what was throwing Karl off. He was certain the fix was going to work and when it didn't, what could he do? If they actually had a recount, it would show that they lost.

Remember that Ohio instituted a program that allowed the precinct totals to be transmitted electronically. So hopefully Dems have found a way to stop any changes being made during the sending of those totals.

 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
38. My understanding
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:52 PM
Nov 2012

was that this 'electronic transmission' allows for Hacking. As it is transmitted, it can be interfered with.

If I know that, certainly Anonymous did and they stood by waiting. I like that. Just fucking with KKKarl's head.

And don't forget the dude who was going to testify about the '04 Theft in OH ended up dead a few weeks before he could testify. Was his name Michael Connell? Damn, my memory. He was a super software geek who did 'bad stuff' in '04....and he had a conscience.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
44. Maybe the work of Anonymous should be spoken of in whispers or not at all
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:02 PM
Nov 2012

Half-joking but if Anonymous can un-hack, in order for Romney
to be defeated, they would also be capable of hacking, on behalf of
the winner -- and I don't even want to think thoughts like that.

This election was a mandate from the voters, from Mother Nature,
from all our (sane) ancestors, from the almighty Dog, and all
the minor dogs and demons who believe in hope, and I do
believe in fact that even Higgs-Boson voted in the multitudes,
or en masse, something like that.

This is a cosmic decisive moment in human history (my
opinion).

Thank you, Life Itself!!!!!

 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
49. OK...I'll
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:08 PM
Nov 2012

just whisper. Want me to delete the Anonymous posts? No big deal. I simply think they righted a wrong. That's it.

I believe it's a cosmic decisive moment in human history as well....but I believe I have to include the almighty Cat as well!

Plus the paradigm is to shift very soon.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
57. dang, forgive me Almighty Cat.. how could I do that, I'm ashamed as all my cats are now giving me
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:23 PM
Nov 2012

evil eye for the oversight. They will not re-elect me
as their slave, in other words.

Don't get me wrong I love that Anonymous exists
and I wish them all the goodness integrity and wisdom
in the world, not to mention brilliance and geekiness.

Jennicut

(25,415 posts)
14. And it did not matter. Because Obama won IA, CO, NV, WI, and NH.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:17 PM
Nov 2012

The midwest plus NH meant Obama won anyway. Rove was out of options no matter what. Add on FL and VA and any messing around in OH really, really did not matter.

Rove is disgusting but he was screwed no matter what he did.

Did Romney think he was going to win one of those states? Obama won without having to win OH, VA, FL, or NC.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
37. There were Repukes saying the Willard would win Minnesota.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:51 PM
Nov 2012
Minnesota! He had as much chance of winning Minnesota as I do of flapping my arms and flying to the freaking moon.
 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
42. True....
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:55 PM
Nov 2012

but it would be very cool if the OH Election were investigated and KKKarl ended up in Jail!!!!

Oh, what a deliriously happy thought!

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
15. I just think that whatever was planned with Ohio ended up being moot--and the Ohio SoS
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:18 PM
Nov 2012

wasn't going to do something illegal when it was pointless to do so.

JBoy

(8,021 posts)
19. It was a staged and planned walkback of his previous optimism.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:25 PM
Nov 2012

His calls for a Romney win were always bullshit, intended to motivate the base.

Sometime on election day, he and Fox News hatched a plan where he would show outrage and disbelief when Ohio was called, and then they'd have the dramatic trip back to interview the number-cruncher guys.

Beowulf

(761 posts)
30. This ^^
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:41 PM
Nov 2012

Didn't Kelly say as she was walking back to the control center that she had rehearsed that walk earlier in the day?

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
159. That us what she said. I Tivoed it...
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 01:42 AM
Nov 2012

...she specifically said, "when we did this in rehearsals, I lost sound right about here (she referred to a specific location in the hall) and that is what is starting to happen now..." Then she continued walking and talking as she made her way into the numbers room.

I think she was more concerned, and swept up in the possibility that there could be technical difficulties. It made her nervous. I think she accidentally revealed that they had rehearsed this whole walk back through the hallways and into the number cruncher room.

So yes, I think it is very bizarre that they were acting bewildered about so much unanticipated uncertainty and confusion--when they had planned and REHEARSED for the confusion by doing a dry run earlier in the day!!

Yeah. That's screwy!

caraher

(6,276 posts)
112. I agree
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:57 PM
Nov 2012

No need for tinfoil... Turd Blossom knew all along they were sunk and staged a bit of theater

yardwork

(61,331 posts)
39. I do believe that Romney was convinced that they had suppressed enough of the vote to "win."
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:52 PM
Nov 2012

That's why Romney's team disregarded all the polls showing that Obama was ahead. Their plan was to suppress/change enough of the Democratic vote to swing the election. They failed, but the Republicans will try again. They've got a lot of Republican governors and state legislators in their camp now.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
158. Yeah. Treason.
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 01:40 AM
Nov 2012

Who could think someone would loot an S&L, use the proceeds to buy guns, use the guns to buy drugs, use the drugs to buy politicians, newsmen and elections, and then see all the blame pinned on the president? Yet, that is what Poppy Bush and his crew managed during Iran-Contra. Then, Bush forgave the traitors before there were any trials to implicate his own hidden role in high treason. That'd be beyond tinfoil.

robinlynne

(15,481 posts)
41. nope. There was a lawsuit in Ohio. A judge was watching. The Ohio election website went off the air
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:53 PM
Nov 2012

right as Rove said Romney can still take Ohio. that is exactly what happened in 2004 in Ohio. In 2004 when ti came back online it gave Bush the votes.

this time it gave Obama the votes. There was a great possibility of an investigation of the Ohio software if Romney's numbers went up. Several election protection advocates spoke in DC at a press conference on tuesday at 12Pm about the lawsuit, and the software.

check on bradblog for more information.

Several interesting thing happened i Ohio on election night.

 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
45. I remember that
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:03 PM
Nov 2012

back in '04. One had to see it to believe it. But it was earth-shaking to me. I knew there was something wrong.

I still say Anonymous got in there and corrected the totals to be TRUE AND CORRECT.

It's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

If one did not go through '04 up close and personal, you don't realize what KKKarl and his geeks did. And it's no damn conspiracy. I don't need a tin foil hat. There is EVIL in this world and KKKarl is it...and now he gets his KARMA smacked up the side of his disgustingly fat and mottled face.

KKKarl went to OH again because it's the state that traditionally calls the winner. And Husted would most definitely go along with him. Husted is a slimy piece of excrement.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
62. That also plays in to my "chickened out" scenario.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:30 PM
Nov 2012

Husted had been read the riot act by a federal judge once before this campaign season. He's damned lucky he wasn't found in contempt of court.

This would have been a situation like Watergate, where US District Court Judge John Sirica smelled a rat and kept asking questions. Eventually the small fry cracked and started to talk, and the road led straight to Tricky Dick. You don't stiff a federal judge without piquing his or her curiosity and a good judge can sniff out this kind of crapola from a long distance.

Whatever Rover offered Huston and Kasich wasn't enough to make them take that risk.

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
128. Wow, I just had a little frisson at your malapropism. I believe you meant "Husted" and not
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 08:27 PM
Nov 2012

"Huston." But then I remembered that Tom Huston was one of the original Dirty Tricksters back in the Watergate era. Weirdly enough, Rove cut his political teeth as one of Donald Segretti's Dirty Tricksters. The Watergate Prosecutor actually opened an investigation into Rove but it died stillborn when Nixon resigned, IIRC.

Still shivering over the Huston\Husted switch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huston_Plan

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
129. I am reading Sy Hersh's book about
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 08:36 PM
Nov 2012

Nixon and Kissinger's first-term foreign policy and read the chapter about the Plumbers while I was standing in line on election day. Huston's name was prominently mentioned therein. And I am old enough to have been a Watergate junkie back in the day. Calling Dr. Freud!!

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
226. And "Segretti" means "secrets" in Italian.
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:27 PM
Nov 2012

How very appropriate!!!!

Just a bit of trivia from someone who LOVES Romance languages, after taking Spanish and Latin in school.

 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
134. I read that
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 09:29 PM
Nov 2012

Bob's efforts were dismissed.

The 39 (or whatever number it turned out to be) patches were already on the software.

Then I heard he was filing a 'restraining order' Monday night.

I'll have to check his website.

But it all worked out....OH went to Ohio.

Emit

(11,213 posts)
51. Do you have a link to that specific story robinlynne?
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:11 PM
Nov 2012

Thanks in advance if you do. I'm on his webstie now and am not finding specifics. Thanks!

robinlynne

(15,481 posts)
55. here you go:
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:20 PM
Nov 2012

Other recipients:
:: Here's the piece again, with all of the supporting sources embedded in the text. You can also access this piece online: http://wp.me/pkFiL-8YS ::

Late last night, after Obama took Ohio, Karl Rove was on Fox News, doggedly refusing to concede. He insisted that Ohio was still in play, as Romney was going to win in Hamilton County—where the votes were "counted" on machines made and maintained by Hart InterCivic, a company effectively controlled by Romney's family. (The same machines were also used in Williams County.)

So it's not surprising that the GOP's Lord Voldemort foresaw an "upset victory" in that county. It is surprising that he said it on Fox News, and when the game was obviously lost, so that a sudden Romney "victory" in Ohio would have seemed especially suspicious—even in the eyes of Rove's old allies on Fox News (or those not in the loop).

To those of us with vivid memories of Election Nights 2000 and 2004, it was a creepy moment—and things got even creepier when Brad Friedman reported that the website of the Ohio SoS had suddenly done down, which had also happened at that very hour eight years before; and when it had come back on, Kerry, who had been ahead, was now behind. And—horribly—the rest was history.

But that didn't happen this time, as Rove had obviously lost control—of himself (his recklessness in mouthing off like that was staggering), and, infinitely more important, of his well-oiled, fabulously subsidized election-theft machine. For all his plans, and all the preparations made by Ohio SoS Jon Husted (among others), Rove was clearly overruled on this Election Day, as cooler heads prevailed.

The fact is that, this time, yet another late-night "upset victory" would have been too risky—for the US press had finally done its job, enough to make a lot of people conscious of what's happened to our voting system, and, therefore,of what could happen to let Romney "win."

The honor roll includes, among many others, Harper's (for publishing Victoria Collier's brilliant overview), the Atlantic, Esquire, the Christian Science Monitor, Forbes (which came out with a killer piece about Ohio's voting system early on Election Day), Huffington Post, and even DailyKos (which had been fervently denialist since 2004).

This time, such organs, and others, played up news that most of them would once have buried or ignored—especially the news of what was happening in Ohio, broken by Gerry Bello and Bob Fitrakis in the Columbus Free Press, and carried even by such unlikely outlets as Fox 19 in Cincinnati.

In short, our work online was finally resonating through the mainstream press—not the New York Times or CNN, of course, but others numerous and respectable enough to give some traction to the questions we've been raising for so many years. Thus the old smear of "conspiracy theory" finally sounded not like common sense but like the mere ad hominem evasion that it's really always been; and so those few who used that smear this time were shot to pieces for it.

When NBC's Chuck Todd compared concerns about e-voting to "birther garbage," Brad Friedman cleaned his clock, with a devastating catalogue of proven instances of fraud that didn't just expose the ignorance of NBC's so-called "elections expert," but which can now be used by anyone who wants to fight for fair elections.

And, as usual, that tired old slur came not just from the corporate media but, even louder, from the left—ThinkProgress and Alternet both coming out with marvelously stupid pieces whose effect, potentially, is so destructive that Karl Rove himself might just as well have written them. (In its error-riddled item calling the Hart InterCivic story "FALSE," Snopes.com used Alternet as a source.) And yet the dozens of smart, angry comments posted in response to those outrageous screeds make clear that leftist pundits can no longer get away with laughing off this all-important fight for real elections in America.

It's time to put an end to such complacent jeering; because people need to know—and want to know—what's happened here, and what they can do about it. That growing public interest is the reason why our work has finally broken through, with Brad, Victoria, Bob, Gerry and Harvey Wasserman, Jonathan Simon, Sally Castleman, Richard Charnin, Michael Collins, Greg Palast, Bev Harris, John Ennis, Sheila Parks, Paul Lehto, Marta Steele and so many others (and please do forgive me if I didn't name you here—I'm really tired!) finally seeing, if not their names in lights, their vital findings resonating through the public sphere. In my own case, that broad public interest recently came home to me when my half-hour interview with Heather Wokusch on MNN (NYC's public access channel) instantly went viral up on YouTube, getting over 80,000 hits in just four days.

And it's because our work has reached so many people that it's not just we ourselves who spread the word, but countless others who aren't activists. As Rove and his confederates mulled their options yesterday, who knows how much they fretted over that explosive bit of video posted by "centralpavoter," showing that an ES&S iVotronic e-voting machine had repeatedly flipped his Obama vote to Romney? (The Raleigh Telegram reported that the same thing was happening on machines in North Carolina.) The fact that it went viral—vividly disproving the GOP's propaganda claimsthat Democrats were somehow flipping Romney votes—had to help decide them not to rip off this election after all.

So while this day after is a thrilling time for Democrats, it is a moment of rare triumph for those fighting for legitimate elections in America. We're feeling this elation not because Barack Obama won, but because we've helped prevent the right from pulling off another "win" despite the will of the electorate. And—despite that Democratic sweep—we will keep up this fight to realize American democracy itself, which must be saved not only from Karl Rove, the Kochs and Sheldon Adelson, but from the long joint grip of both the parties, and the money flooding through them.

MCM

*****


From Victoria Collier:

THANK YOU TO THE ELECTION INTEGRITY MOVEMENT!

The awareness of potential GOP vote rigging was unprecedented leading up to the 2012 November election, and it made a difference. Many within the election integrity movement – Progressives, Libertarians and even Republicans – did not believe that Mitt Romney could win in honest elections.

Election Day 2012 did see break-downs of electronic voting machines all across the country, enormous lines in African-American districts, and we will probably end up tallying millions of likely-Democratic votes lost in voter roll purges, discarded ballots, and other votes lost to GOP robo-calling and other dirty tricks.

Which means that, as in 2008, it's likely that Democratic wins are much larger than officially recorded.

But the alarms had been sounded presidential vote-rigging was unprecedented and MILLIONS of eyes were on Ohio and Florida.

Though we still have a task in front of us – instituting election reform; clean elections, the end of corporate campaign financing, and transparent vote counting – we must count this election in many ways as a victory for our movement.

--
Victoria Collier
Editor: VoteScam.org


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LiberalArkie

(15,673 posts)
127. I believe that word was passed to other SOS about the machines. When I went to vote in rural
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 08:26 PM
Nov 2012

Arkansas. We have the same type machine as was in the video. The lady operating the voting machine after unplugging the supervisor module said " Please pay attention to the button you press. It will light up. It it doesn't call for me immediately".

I think that was the hack to randomly change the Obama button because most people do not look at it once it is pressed.

leanforward

(1,071 posts)
153. here you go:
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 11:58 PM
Nov 2012

Thanks for the education and information. I've taken the time to read the posts from old #1. One item you mentioned is the amount of sunlight that was placed on the election to include the Judge. The sunlight and suit probably did the trick. But, I'm skeptical about anything. With your explanation applied to timeline coupled with actions probably caught Rove with his hand in the cookie jar and let it go. As in any good mystery, Rove my not have told the Romney Campaign. Except the Orca geeks/gurus. Just read an article about the Romney campaign Orca. But, their Orca projected winning results. Do you think ? ? ? ?

robinlynne

(15,481 posts)
162. They projected winning results because they own the voting machines. As Bush did, to steal an
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 02:34 AM
Nov 2012

election, you create the idea that the election is going to be very close. Do you remember how the Dem Party handed 2004 to Bush without counting the votes?
Because the "too close to call' was implanted. same thing this time.

 

lonestarnot

(77,097 posts)
197. In 2004, I recall the time as being around 11 p.m. I remember going downtown pissed as hell at
Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:46 AM
Nov 2012

about that hour and the next day I discovered DU, got tangled up in all the name that shall not be mentioned here crap. Haven't given up since!

Raksha

(7,167 posts)
224. Let's not forget what happened to Mike Connell.
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:22 PM
Nov 2012

Thank you for the link to the Mark Crispin Miller article. I've read his book Fooled Again and I agree that he's one of the best.

Through the MCM link, I found this earlier article from the Free Press by Bob Fitrakis: It begins:

A new filing in the King Lincoln Bronzeville v. Blackwell case includes a copy of the Ohio Secretary of State election production system configuration that was in use in Ohio's 2004 presidential election when there was a sudden and unexpected shift in votes for George W. Bush.

The filing also includes the revealing deposition of the late Michael Connell. Connell served as the IT guru for the Bush family and Karl Rove. Connell ran the private IT firm GovTech that created the controversial system that transferred Ohio's vote count late on election night 2004 to a partisan Republican server site in Chattanooga, Tennessee owned by SmarTech. That is when the vote shift happened, not predicted by the exit polls, that led to Bush's unexpected victory. Connell died a month and a half after giving this deposition in a suspicious small plane crash. (my emphasis)


http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2011/4239

My point, obviously, is that it may not only have been fear of 10 years or so in the slammer that caused Rove's would-be hackers to lose their nerve at the last minute.

yardwork

(61,331 posts)
94. There's an article around here about how angry the federal judge was with Husted's people on Friday.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:37 PM
Nov 2012

I'll see if I can find it. The judge was furious with them for making changes at 7 pm on the Friday before the election. They knew they were being watched in Ohio.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
126. When a federal judge has you under his or her
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 08:24 PM
Nov 2012

microscope, as was the case in Ohio before the election (and that is absolutely crucial here) there is much less wiggle room. The judge's suspicions were already on hair-trigger alert because of Husted's earlier shenanigans.

So Husted (and maybe Kasich) had two options: go through with the fix that had been pre-arranged with Rove, in which case the judge would start asking some very difficult questions which, when the truth inevitably came out, would lead to the very real possibility of extended time in the federal slammer for a lot of Ohio Republicans; or mind their ps and qs and fk over KKKarl, which would have the added advantage of keeping them out of the Big House. Nobody is gonna go to heavy-duty prison just to save Karl Rove's doughy ass. Nobody. Not even a couple of shitweasels like Kasich and Husted. There is no honor among thieves.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
149. Wow. Federal judges do not dress down
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 11:00 PM
Nov 2012

attorneys like that in court just any old day. Judge Marbley sounds like he is fast approaching what I call the Popeye Point - "I've had all I can stands and I can't stands no more!" "Contempt of court" is a phrase that comes to mind.

 

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)
46. Tagg Rmoney's company owns the OH voting machines. I guarantee you they tried to rig them.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:03 PM
Nov 2012

It apparently failed, or turnout was so high that the rig was inadequate.

They were "shellshocked" because they were given a guaranteed win in OH and it failed (JMHO).

Carni

(7,280 posts)
66. This is my theory "turnout was so high that the rig was inadequate"
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:39 PM
Nov 2012

I posted something along those lines in another thread but I didn't word it very well. I think the massive turnout foiled Rove's plans.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
56. No, I think they were just arrogant, especially Romney.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:20 PM
Nov 2012

Even if they won Ohio, they still lost.

is right.

70. Exactly! I was convinced they were about to alter the vote count . . . But the Ohio SOS abruptly
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:06 PM
Nov 2012

went home for he night . . . My bet is that he already knew that he was under scrutiny by the AG office for voting rights abuse and he wasn't going to be party to anything further that Rove wanted him to do . . . Same in FL - MSNBC Todd kept saying there were some panhandle counties that hadn't reported . . . He could not figure out why . . . But he was convinced that the Miami Dade numbers would easily surpass anything from the last Republican counties. Suddenly Miami Dade said they would not complete the count that night. I think that the Obama people said to stop the count until all of the Republic counties report - because they were sure that the Repugs were going to mess with the numbers depending on what MiamiDade reported!

tinrobot

(10,830 posts)
99. That sounds very plausible
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:44 PM
Nov 2012

I was wondering why Florida stopped counting and this explanation makes a lot of sense.

robinlynne

(15,481 posts)
104. not by the AG. By a judge because of Bob Fitrakis'' lawsuit. Holder did NOTHING. election protection
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:52 PM
Nov 2012

advocates went public in DC on Tuesday at noon. It is their work , in my opinion, that stopped that particular theft.
not the Attorney general. He still has not even found the fraud in Florida he was supposedly investigating. Citizens found it.
credit where credit is due. please.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
140. Oooookay, but what does that have to do with Obama winning Ohio?
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:01 PM
Nov 2012

As I stated above, even if the fix was in and Ohio was called for Romney, he still loses the election.

robinlynne

(15,481 posts)
143. the fix is possible all over the country right now. same as i Ohio. the same companies who "fixed' o
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:06 PM
Nov 2012

also fix the other 50 states. getting out the vote ensures ONE election. Not the future of democracy.

Things are not okay because we won this specific election. Things are ok for this specific election.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
145. Not possible. They would need to 'fix' every swing state, and any state that was even close.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:13 PM
Nov 2012

Stealing an election isn't easy if you have to steal ALL of it.

robinlynne

(15,481 posts)
163. Private republican owned companies count 80% of American votes. Think about that for a minute.
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 02:41 AM
Nov 2012

Of course they can. Of course it is easy. they own the software. It is privately owned. by the right. It is not owned by the American public. or even operated by the American public or public officials. It is private.

Merlot

(9,693 posts)
155. They could not have "fixed" California - our SoS got rid of the bad voting machines
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 12:17 AM
Nov 2012

And I believe Oregon votes by mail with ballots, which can be hand counted.

robinlynne

(15,481 posts)
161. not quite. the bad voting amchine company scans and counts the votes here in Claifornia. the same
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 02:29 AM
Nov 2012

exact same bad voting machine company. Diebold.

Merlot

(9,693 posts)
198. true, but we don't have the touch screens
Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:45 PM
Nov 2012

I know LA county uses Inkadots, I thought the rest of CA does too. At least these are paper ballots.

robinlynne

(15,481 posts)
201. not ours. No candidate's names are written on our ballots. just numbers.
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:27 AM
Nov 2012

WE are the largest county in the country, with more than 4500 precincts. Each number men as a different thing in each precinct. The computer scanner with the diebold program (just like yours) determines what each number means. #3 in my precinct might be Obama. in the next precinct over #3 means Romney.
I went and watched the count more than once. An "header card" is placed in front of th ballots. We don't know what it says. but it has computer code on it which tells the scanner who the vote for #3 is for.
There is NO way to verify.

It is the sam all over California. Yes we have paper ballots. That is MUCH better than not having paper ballots. But have you ever tried to get the paper ballots to recount? for any reason?

CitizenPatriot

(3,783 posts)
73. Here's my theory
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:12 PM
Nov 2012

the tabulator was on the results as they were sent to SOS. For this reason, Dem counties held their votes back until the R counties were in (or maybe they just got lucky and weren't ready to send them in yet). (note: aren't these the tabulators that were shown to be shaving votes off yesterdays count?)

The problem here is that while Rove et al were expecting the votes to be shaved off in the tabulator and votes added to the Romney counties, hence the freak out and the failure to write a concession speech. they also thought that it would be easier to steal because their internal polling had it at 50/50 when in reality it was Obama's already.

(Edited ^ to add in bit about adding to the red counties, which I left out of my thought)

But with the Dem counties out till way after the red counties, the only thing they could hope for was to shave those votes off but they couldn't do it by a wide enough margin and the folks reporting before those votes were turned in already had the MATH done and knew what to expect.

Hysterical fail, actually. The only question is did the Dem counties hold back their numbers on purpose to thwart this,or was it accidental.

God I love the smell of JUSTICE an GOP FAIL.

LisaL

(44,961 posts)
215. Cuyahoga is a big county. I believe it always comes in last.
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 02:02 AM
Nov 2012

It also had issues with voter scanners where they were not working properly in some precincts. But even when everything works properly, Cuyahoga always comes in last.

donqpublic

(155 posts)
81. Speaking of unhacked
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:27 PM
Nov 2012

Does anyone wonder if the last-minute software update in OH was an un-hack? With the Feds eyeballing Husted maybe he got cold feet. Just wondering since the update went on largely Democrat area machines (from the report). Who knows, but it would make a cool story.

yourout

(7,518 posts)
109. That is another reason I think someone undid the Hack. It's actually fricking brilliant if they did.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:55 PM
Nov 2012

robinlynne

(15,481 posts)
113. no. Read post# 97. It explains exactly what really happened. It is important for people to be aware
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:58 PM
Nov 2012

of this and to understand what happened. This was a repeat of 2004, with a different outcome because a judge was watching Ohio!

dawnie51

(959 posts)
83. Husted went home early ...
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:28 PM
Nov 2012

election night, made a statement that there would be no more statements, and was out of there. Didn't even wait for the state to be called.

 

FamilyMan

(31 posts)
97. They got cold feet.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:44 PM
Nov 2012

If you look at the timeline of Jon Husted's vote counting website going down and Rove's meltdown they coincide with each other. Obama's lead had decreased to only 900 votes before the website went down, half hour later when it comes back up Obama is up 70,000 votes. The fix was in but Husted got cold feet, I say they reversed the fix during the site outage.

-Notice how Obama went from a 20,000+ lead to only 900 votes in no time and then Rove starts 'telling' us what 'can' happen on que.
-Notice how Rove was in constant communication with Jon Husted...why??...no reason to be.
-The network then decides to call Ohio, at the same time Husted's website goes offline, then comes back up just over half an hour later with almost 70,000 votes added back to Obama's total.

Obama should of won Ohio by 3-5% according to the polls, instead he won by 1.9%. If you add the sudden vote decrease back in it comes to ~3%. Even Romney's internal polls had Obama up by 5% in Ohio. The polls had Obama leading the other swing states by a lot less than Ohio yet he won those by 4-5%. It just doesn't add up.

There are screen shots and time stamps of Husted's site going down which are priceless. It doesn't take much research to see what Rove and Husted were up to, just like in '04. Top level programmers suspect a vote flipping program that starts switching cast votes at a pre determined midpoint, because having them switch early or late would be obvious. They suspect a gradual intersecting line graph model that starts taking from one candidate and giving to another in a gradual manner until the vote count flips. Keep pressure on the DOJ to investigate Husted, he is a travesty to our entire democratic voting system.

leanforward

(1,071 posts)
136. They got cold feet.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 09:52 PM
Nov 2012

Thank you for the above analysis. Heads up. Surely, there is someone else looking into what happened in that time period. I don't watch Faux very much, but we just happened to switch and watched that strange happening. And the Stats guys wouldn't budge. The producers pulled the call for a bit. That whole episode smacks of collusion. At risk of being offensive, I like to recommend an old western movie starring Gary Cooper, The Hanging Tree. Only there's no gold certificate blowing away to attract the mob. Keep in mind that Rove was on the periphery of Bush-Cheney-Iraq. Soldiers, sailors, marines, & airmen died and he's pulling this stunt. He needs a lot of time at Gitmo for fresh air.

Rant over.

amborin

(16,631 posts)
100. Bradblog reported this yesterday...and Fatarkis (sp?) will prosecute re: the patches
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:46 PM
Nov 2012

said the Cayuhoga elections office vote counting server went down twice, while Rove was in meltdown....suspicious coincidence.....

Shilo

(101 posts)
117. I wouldn't put anything past them but am so glad that this part is over
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 08:06 PM
Nov 2012

now if only we could get out the vote for the mid terms---thats something we need to work on the lack of voters during the midterms. Make the Congress do their damn job.

 

FamilyMan

(31 posts)
135. It is not over...
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 09:47 PM
Nov 2012

Until Jon Husted is removed from office. The machines/software are privately contracted to openly Republican companies. Husted gave the voting software contract to the same group as '04. And due to laws ONLY the private software company holds rights to the results, they don't have to show anyone anything. Write every official you can to have a crack IT team investigate Jon Husted. Until then he is rotting the roots of our democracy.

robinlynne

(15,481 posts)
138. and that is just Ohio. Private corporations count our votes here in blue states as well. And they t
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 09:56 PM
Nov 2012

train election officials. They actually have a school to train election officials. Which is where the testers come from who do the testing for the federal government. And the EAC, in charge of all the testers has 2 bush appointees, and two empty chairs in charge.

The whole election oversight system we have currently was put in place by George W Bush....

smackd

(216 posts)
147. Occam's Razor
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:52 PM
Nov 2012

they were just too arrogant and too blinded by their own hubris to realize they never had a chance

they thought they had it in the bag b/c they simply thought they had most Americans fooled

and they were way, way wrong

guess I'm not a very good conspiracy theorist they make for great stories, but reality is generally a lot more mundane

ergo, they're mostly just asshats


D23MIURG23

(2,821 posts)
150. This is ad-hoc BS.
Thu Nov 8, 2012, 11:37 PM
Nov 2012

The likelihood of any large scale hacking of voting machines is diminishing rapidly. This is the second presidential election where we have won Ohio, and there are still no whistle blowers, dirty code, or evidences pointing to conspiracies to hack voting machines. There are statistical anomalies from 2004. That is a pretty bad case for establishing large conspiracies to steal elections.

Rmoney's lack of a concession speech is easily explained by overconfidence; this same explanation also covers Rove's apparent shock at Ohio being called for Obama, and his subsequent attempts to cast doubt on that outcome.

Your post is a poor attempt at protecting a conspiracy theory from reality by inventing more stories you don't have any evidence to confirm.

D23MIURG23

(2,821 posts)
189. Yup, thats right.
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 05:56 PM
Nov 2012

I'm protecting Karl Rove's vote stealing conspiracy, just like I protect the perpetrators of the moon landing conspiracy, and the people in the federal government who secretly set up 9/11.



Or maybe I'm just trying to protect DU from looking like its full of nutty Alex Jones fans. If you want to look like a moron though, don't let me stand in your way.

On a serious note, you should consider googling "burden of proof" and "null hypothesis".

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
187. I think it works without needing to be literally true
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 03:11 PM
Nov 2012

I don't know whether the OP is positing an actual vote-hacking accusation or not. I know that Republicans, as a whole, have done a million other incredibly blatant things to try to cheat elections. Ask anyone who stood in line for 9 hours to vote because Republican governors slashed early voting.

Ohio, vote-hacking or not, has been the worst example of this. So, Republicans DID try to steal Ohio. They tried to steal it by going to court to fight for cutting voting hours ONLY in Democratic districts.

Be that as it may, Rove, melting down and humiliating himself on Fox acted like a man who thought he knew something everyone else did not.

Maybe that's just his personality. His hubris. His marketing "brand."

Or maybe he really thought the Republican machine had pulled something off, legal or illegal or somewhere in between, that should have guaranteed them Ohio.

If he was really just "crunching the numbers" as he claimed to be doing, there was no reason to question the call.

He thought he knew something. Doesn't have to have been vote hacking. Doesn't have to have been voter suppression. But his disbelief was palpable. His panic was real. He genuinely thought things COULD NOT be going the way they went.

Occam's Razor says he just miscalculated. But I think people can be forgiven if they don't find "Karl Rove" and "simplest possible explanation" go together well.

D23MIURG23

(2,821 posts)
191. I'm specifically interested in the vote hacking accusation, because it is unsubstantiated.
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 06:23 PM
Nov 2012

I know that there have been voter suppression attempts involving dumping registrations and putting up barriers to voting. Those are documented.

You know what else is documented? Right wing pundits predicting a Romney landslide. That has been happening all election cycle, and it is likely that this is why Rove and Rmoney were surprised. They drank their own kool aid.

If we want to reform elections, we should work on the problems that are demonstrated, like governors trying to make all the democratic counties vote on a single machine, or purging their voter rolls of the people living in Miami. We shouldn't waste our credibility promoting ideas that are probably not literally true.

 

RomneyLies

(3,333 posts)
168. That's crazy talk
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 07:56 AM
Nov 2012

Romney could have won Ohio, Virginia, and Florida and he would have STILL lost.

Nobody hacked anything and it's time to stop promoting that stupid conspiracy theory.

 

RomneyLies

(3,333 posts)
178. Yes, because it never happened before
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 12:36 PM
Nov 2012

All the batshit crazy conspiracy theories in the world are not going to change the fact that NOBODY has EVER hacked the vote.

And trying to promote the idea that it has and will happen is nothing more than idiocy on the same level as birtherism.

musette_sf

(10,182 posts)
181. that random leap of blatant false equivalency
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 12:46 PM
Nov 2012

has just said more about you than all of your naysaying on this topic

 

RomneyLies

(3,333 posts)
183. And as is always the case for the conspiracy theorists
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 12:51 PM
Nov 2012

they claim false equivalency when compared to an another conspiracy theorist.



Nobody hacked the vote in 2004.

Nobody hacked the vote in 2006.

Nobody hacked the vote in 2008.

Nobody hacked the vote in 2010.

Nobody hacked the vote in the Wisconsin recall election.

Nobody hacked the vote in 2012.

The government did not blow up world trade 7.

Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

The United States of America successfully landed 12 men on the moon and safely returned them to the earth.

 

RomneyLies

(3,333 posts)
185. There is no false equivalency
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 01:09 PM
Nov 2012

A conspiracy theorist is a conspiracy theorist.

Facts are facts. It is a factual statement to say that the vote has never been hacked. It is false to say it has.

Now maybe you'll just go ahead and play out the full on conspiracy theorist instead of making round about implications.

Go ahead, you know you want to.

Say that I am in on the conspiracy.

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
227. You win the "Pristine Bullet Award." Or would you prefer the "Secret Government Syphilis Testing on
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:32 PM
Nov 2012

Blacks Award"?

No, I've got it! Here's your "Tonkin Gulf Non-Incident Award."

D23MIURG23

(2,821 posts)
192. Its only a false equivalency if the vote flipping conspiracy is resting on better evidence.
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 11:56 PM
Nov 2012

As far as I know, there is no specific evidence of vote flipping. There is some analysis that shows that Ohio's 2004 result was statistically unlikely. That isn't the same thing as evidence of a conspiracy.

Tsiyu

(18,186 posts)
218. There's more than just "analysis" as evidence
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:54 AM
Nov 2012

but I believe your posts point to a very heartwarming, fatal flaw some humans have.

We just don't like to believe that our fellow humans would do unpleasant things. Or that people would conspire to cover up unpleasant behaviors because they benefit from the coverup in some way.

That's why Jerry Sandusky was able to continue his crimes. Nobody wanted to imagine his horrific abuse of children, so that many who tried to complain about the man were told they were: "Crazy, jealous, inventing abuse, imagining abuse, blah-blah-blah."

The same as you are doing concerning vote flipping.

I admire your naive scorn. Your self-righteous mockery.

I admire even more those who press on past their scorn to see the truth.

Uncomfortable? Maybe. But the truth doesn't care if you like it or not.













D23MIURG23

(2,821 posts)
220. OK, then where is it?
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:43 PM
Nov 2012

If you've got evidence then I await your citations.

As for the rest, you show an irritating combination of condescension and vapidity. You apparently can't grok the difference between something being believable, and something being evident. It is certainly possible, believable even, that Karl Rove would set up an election rigging conspiracy, he has a motive, and doing such a thing would be consistent with his character.

What you and some of the other featherweights on this site need to realize is that the fact that you can imagine something that seems realistic doesn't mean it has to be true. Seeing you guys contort yourselves, and invent circuitous rationalizations to avoid the fact that Nate Silver predicted the outcomes of the 2008, 2010, Walker Recall, and now 2012 elections, and that we won two of those decisively, is pathetic and embarrassing. If Rove was in control of the voting machines in this last election, then he sucks at election fraud worse than you suck at logic.

ThoughtCriminal

(13,996 posts)
188. In the movie version...
Fri Nov 9, 2012, 03:58 PM
Nov 2012

he smiles as he taps the "Ohio" icon...

but instead of the "Deployed" confirmation, an animated, laughing Guy Fawkes mask appears instead.

In reality: I doubt they were really capable of hacking a last minute hack.

Samantha

(9,314 posts)
199. In the video of the meltdown, he specifically mentioned Hamilton County
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:13 AM
Nov 2012

That rang a bell, and I posted this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021744429

but it only got two recs before the election was over. I think people who say Rove was panicking because his back-up plan misfired are correct. And I believe he gave this away, when he mentioned Hamilton County.

Sam

Response to Samantha (Reply #199)

LisaL

(44,961 posts)
205. Obama actually won Hamilton county.
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:37 AM
Nov 2012

So, why would Rove think Romney was going to get all these votes there?

Samantha

(9,314 posts)
210. It was said pretty often before the election whoever won Hamilton County would win Ohio
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:48 AM
Nov 2012

But the advance publicity on the Romney family owned investments in voting machines pinpointed one with a connection to Romney's son. The one voting machine in Ohio with a Romney family connection was in Hamilton County. So to answer your question, there was a suspicion that if any tampering was done in Ohio, one of the first places would be in Hamilton County. So the theory goes, that is what Rove was thinking. Things went wrong when it became readily apparent Ohio was not going to make a difference, so the totals reported are assumed to be correct, no tampering was done because the election was lost and why take the risk if Ohio was not determinative.

One might have had to be on this train before it left the track. It's late, and if I did not explain this well, perhaps someone else could state it more clearly.

But I should pointblank say, no one made a direct accusation; however, the alerts went out and all eyes were on Ohio, and Franklin County was in the spotlight.

I personally sent that information to the Obama campaign team with a simple message, "Are you aware of this?"

Sam

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
216. What I find delicious is that even though we may not know exactly what happened
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 02:04 AM
Nov 2012

or did not happen, the fact that Obama's team flushed out new voters with superior IT skills that went overwhelmingly Democratic that Ohio and Florida are no longer Kingmakers. In the end, you can't hack a whole new generation of involved human beings.

But I do love that Rove has some 'splainin' to do to some pretty "hacked" off donors.

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