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Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:29 PM

 

Why are so many right-wing Americans so ungrateful to their society?

What is it about certain segments of the population in the US that makes them feel:

1. That taxation is "theft"
2. That government is "the problem"
3. That they want social programs, but don't want to pay for them
4. That poor people, minorities, etc. are "entitled"-ironic, considering the immense sense of entitlement from people who "want to take our country back!"

Is there something fundamental about right-wing ideology and attitudes that makes people feel morally justified in being selfish assholes? Is it worse in America than in other countries? If so, why?

These are just some questions I have been pondering...

21 replies, 4981 views

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Reply Why are so many right-wing Americans so ungrateful to their society? (Original post)
YoungDemCA Nov 2012 OP
maxsolomon Nov 2012 #1
tblue Nov 2012 #5
liberal N proud Nov 2012 #2
Angry Dragon Nov 2012 #3
codjh9 Nov 2012 #4
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #6
newspeak Nov 2012 #14
leveymg Nov 2012 #7
Zoeisright Nov 2012 #8
beachbumbob Nov 2012 #13
RC Nov 2012 #18
NoOneMan Nov 2012 #9
hifiguy Nov 2012 #10
beachbumbob Nov 2012 #11
Initech Nov 2012 #12
siligut Nov 2012 #15
Frances Nov 2012 #16
lpbk2713 Nov 2012 #17
ladjf Nov 2012 #19
Tsiyu Nov 2012 #20
PD Turk Nov 2012 #21

Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:32 PM

1. Self-centered Fear

And they've been lied to constantly by well-paid propagandists. Comforting lies that confirm their innate biases.

The words of Dylan from the Civil Rights era:

A South politician preaches to the poor white man
"You got more than blacks, don't complain
You're better than them, you been born with white skin" they explain
And the Negro's name
Is used it is plain
For the politician's gain
As he rises to fame
And the poor white remains
On the caboose of the train
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.

The deputy sheriffs, the soldiers, the governors get paid
And the marshals and cops get the same
But the poor white man's used in the hands of them all like a tool
He's taught in his school
From the start by the rule
That the laws are with him
To protect his white skin
To keep up his hate
So he never thinks straight
'Bout the shape that he's in
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.

From the powerty shacks, he looks from the cracks to the tracks
And the hoof beats pound in his brain
And he's taught how to walk in a pack
Shoot in the back
With his fist in a clinch
To hang and to lynch
To hide 'neath the hood
To kill with no pain
Like a dog on a chain
He ain't got no name
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:48 PM

5. Great lyrics but I do blame them

They choose to believe what they want to believe. I could be fed a bunch of garbage for years and I would not necessarily believe it.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:33 PM

2. Because they are selfish assholes.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:34 PM

3. their minds can not connect the dots

they get money from the government but do not connect it to the government

in their minds they earned it but others do not

and no republican has ever been able to finish a connect the dots picture

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:36 PM

4. 'Is it worse in America...'? Yeah, at least compared to some countries. Several years ago I read

'The European Dream' (a la 'The American Dream'), by Jeffrey Tobin, I think, and the premise of the book was basically that *with exceptions on both sides*, Europeans care more about the greater good and Americans are more self-centered (present company probably very much excepted).
And on your (2), yeah, I've been kind of bewildered about this for years. My dad was a state college professor, and when I was growing up, I never thought, nor ever heard my parents say anything bad about, the government or taxes. Certain specific politicians, yes! But never the govt. as a whole. Whether it was the post office, national park rangers, state parks & wildlife guys, state agencies, whatever I was around growing up, I thought the government was basically GOOD, actually. And still think it is, or can be, with the right people running it.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:48 PM

6. For 40 years, they've been the audience for a politics of 'resentment' that

 

projects onto "The Other" (blacks, welfare recipients, single women, Latinos) their own sense of deep economic insecurity in the face of an economic system that views them as eminently disposable.

Had Ted Kennedy won the nomination in 1980, the last 30 years might have been avoided. We'll never know and I really, really like Jimmy Carter. But we needed someone in 1980 to call Reagan out forcefully for the demagogic reactionary he was. Jimmy Carter, despite his many strengths, was not that man.

Good questions you pose, btw

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 01:11 PM

14. yeah, i believe for over thirty years of hearing the randian corporate cheerleaders

many started believing it was their fault they couldn't find a decent job or they deserved not to have a pension. also, the "american dream" has been pushed for many, many years; and as george carlin said "you must be dreaming to believe in the american dream" (verbatim).

i remember the eighties quite well, when the media started pushing the "selfish" meme. "the rich and infamous" and other "admire the rich" shows became popular. raygun was spouting the "rich" welfare queens meme. oh and the new business model being spouted was "restructuring." and nesbitt was gushing how the american worker no longer needs loyalty to a corporation. that american workers will be able to move around freely and pick and choose which corporation they wished to work for. they sold that bullshite to the american people, while junk bond corrupt greedheads were raiding any good american company and selling off the shell to the highest fekkin bidder, while those "loyal" workers were left in the dust.

i know why we are where we are today-greed, corruption, sociopathic tendencies of a few worthless souls. we've been trickled on long enough, while the scam artists have made quite a killing.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:49 PM

7. The RW aren't all really patriots just because they cloak themselves in the flag

Many want to continue receiving all the benefits of full citizenship, but are unwilling to give anyone else in the country (those who aren't exactly like themselves) any credit for their hard work and sacrifices.

IOW: some are stupid, selfish assholes.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:50 PM

8. They're selfish, greedy, cruel, and stupid.

Plus they have this deluded idea that everything they have is due to their own "work". They don't understand how society works and they are deliberately ignorant and misinformed.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 01:06 PM

13. Not entirely fair to say that,

 

the argument on what constitute the role of the federal govt been going on for 225 years. I have many conservative friends and they are none of what you are saying. These people do not want govt in their lives...of course with in reason. Their beliefs steer them and I have found it impossible, in some cases, to veer their direction after 40 yrs of discussions.

If any thing, I would say they all posses a degree of fear. A fear of lost of control, a fear of being forced, a fear of the unknown, fear of acknowledging their own infallibility in their beliefs. They grasp their beliefs for their security.

Why overcoming beliefs is so extremely difficult

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 02:01 PM

18. To be Conservative is to be paranoid.

 

The farther to the Right one is, the greater the fear. Most are basically born that way. Their brains are hard wired to be fearful of change. To be mistrustful of others not going along or thinking as they do.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:51 PM

9. Our modern life is out of sync with our natural instincts

 

It creates a deep subconscious divide in all humans, to some degree or another. In turn, many decide to seethe and hate the what they perceive to be the target of their angst.

The right-wing have adopted one common cultural story of what is wrong with them. They aren't the only ones.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:54 PM

10. There's a simple answer. From Margaret Thatcher,

 

who famously said "there is no such thing as society, only individuals." They believe it to the core of their dessicated and shriveled beings.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 01:00 PM

11. tough question and not new to american politics at all

 

Our forefathers had great disagreements over what role the federal govt should play and 225 years later ,we still are having the same debate.

This is what I know. Its nearly impossible to change a person's belief in almost anything, including politics. Beliefs can not be reasoned with, no facts can change it, no amount of arguing can overcome it. For starters we must accept that there are minds which rarely be changed and not waste alot of time with those who have no ability to question their own beliefs.

Now, there are some that have some skepticism concerning their beliefs, perhaps just enough that they can be turned...those are the ones to have the discussions with.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 01:02 PM

12. It's called "I've got mine so fuck you" syndrome.

Conservatives have been so brainwashed by hate radio and our talking points media to believe that anyone will come to take away their slice of the pie, and so they create these invisible boogey men to make themselves feel better. When in reality the uber rich economic terrorists (Koch Brothers, etc) are the ones who are really stealing it all.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 01:15 PM

15. They think they deserve everything they see on TV and have to blame someone because they don't.

TV is almost pure propaganda, it is used to sell stuff.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 01:16 PM

16. I think many are ignorant

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 01:18 PM

17. They want their piece of the pie ... and yours too.




That's what distinguishes them from the rest of us.


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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 02:34 PM

19. Self-centered greed may be the root of their problem. nt

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 02:46 PM

20. Their own upbringing combined with FOX and Rush

Low intellect, low information, low regard for anyone not exactly like they are, fed by the media that want them to hate and spread lies.

These types eat delusions like candy, but scratch the surface and you find classic Narcissists who want what they want when they want it, but who have no intent that anyone else should have anything. They feel "special" and FOX and Rush reinforce this notion.

FOX has probably destroyed more American families than alcohol.


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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 03:18 PM

21. They abhor diversity

They believe that their way of life is "the American way of life" accept no substitutes. I've seen his shit all my life. Back when I was a kid I grew up in a family full of racists like a lot of us did back then in the south. As the 60s wore on into the 70s and integration became more and more a fact of life, I witnessed a kind of begrudging "acceptance" start to take shape. It became ok for my parents and their friends to have black "friends" as long as "they talked white and acted white". And even then they were most often held at arms length, never really allowed into the club and showed the secret handshake of you will. It was a "our way or the highway" kind of thing back then. And the white people that acted this way eventually started to pat themselves on the back for "not being racists".

Fast forward to today. It's a bit more veiled than it used to be but pull back that veil a little bit and it's still there. Most of the good gawd-fearin' Christian republicans I know here in Oklahoma still think and act like what I described above. And sure, it's not as much about race as it was back then, but to be sure, it's still very much about being like them. They believe that they ARE true American society, They believe they are the patriots. They believe "freedom" means freedom to live like them. they believe it's fine for people like them to get things from the government but no "handouts" for outcasts, deviants and malcontents. And they turn on their AM radio and Faux News every day to be reassured that they are the true "America".

I believe as a progressive, to stay true to my beliefs I have to be as tolerant of them as I would like them to be of me. If they want to live like June and Ward Cleaver? Hey, I'm fine with that, more power to them. That's their church on the corner? I'm happy they have it and would still fight to defend their right to go there.

Where I draw the line is when they want to have a government that caters to their narrow views and makes/enforces laws that try to force me to live by their standards. Then we have a problem. I'll leave their Kincaid paintings and Precious Moments collection alone if they'll leave my lava lamp and bong alone, I'm a live and let live kind of guy

But too many of them think they are on a mission form gawd to "clean up the country" or some such nonsense. I just hope they slowly fade into insignificance....

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