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Fri Oct 7, 2022, 11:19 PM

Perhaps I fail to understand

Trying to compare circumstances, being in possession of stolen (items that do not belong to you) property, that should be in the rightful custody of the Federal Government, not resulting with the immediate arrest and detention of the offender.
This is the same country that will incarcerate immediately some people for traffic violation.

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Arrow 14 replies Author Time Post
Reply Perhaps I fail to understand (Original post)
RickHworth Oct 2022 OP
elleng Oct 2022 #1
JoeOtterbein Oct 2022 #2
Igel Oct 2022 #3
Maraya1969 Oct 2022 #6
onecaliberal Oct 2022 #7
stopdiggin Oct 2022 #4
niyad Oct 2022 #8
rainy Oct 2022 #10
niyad Oct 2022 #12
stopdiggin Oct 2022 #14
onenote Oct 2022 #5
Joinfortmill Oct 2022 #9
arthritisR_US Oct 2022 #11
RockRaven Oct 2022 #13

Response to RickHworth (Original post)

Fri Oct 7, 2022, 11:22 PM

1. JURISDICTION is an important distinction,

often NOT easily understood..

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Response to RickHworth (Original post)

Fri Oct 7, 2022, 11:33 PM

2. What we call "laws" in the USA are only used to protect property like...

...*rump's.

From the "unwashed masses". From the start, most of the "unwashed", were/are people of color. Many of whom were enslaved, as "property".

It evolves from there, to here.

(tears)

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Response to RickHworth (Original post)

Fri Oct 7, 2022, 11:42 PM

3. the pivot is "stolen".

You take something from your parents' house that you've used for a while.

They notice it's missing. Is it stolen?

That is, did you take it without permission?

Note the requirements for "classified." Obama issued the last EO stipulating what that meant. Obama wasn't bound by his orders to his underlings. His successors were no less bound. *That* is the problem. Obama didn't bind himself. He couldn't bind Trump.

Since pretty much all authority for classification rests with the President--in this case, Obama, since he last issued (to my knowlege) and EO about such "trivia"--what does that mean for Trump?

That requires not asking, "What does it mean for subordinates?" because Trump wasn't Obama's subordinate. Officially, he was Obama's equal. So every time it comes up with "Was Trump acting within the law?" ask, "Was Obama acting within the law?" Put in the same actions. Often, my response is, "Dunno." I don't inow the details or the case law, if it exists.

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Response to Igel (Reply #3)

Sat Oct 8, 2022, 12:00 AM

6. What are you talking about? It doesn't matter if the documents are classified or not

They are the property of the US government. I don't remember hearing Obama took anything without permission.

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 8, 2022, 12:34 AM

7. He didn't. The national archives sent him his personal items after they went through everything.

When he left office.

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Response to RickHworth (Original post)

Fri Oct 7, 2022, 11:48 PM

4. don't know a lot of people that have been 'incarcerated immediately'

for traffic offenses. But thanks for one more version of, "If this was (you chose: an average Joe, government employee, my friend with a security clearance) then he would have hit the slammer so fast .. " And yada, yada. But then, it's not an average Joe at the middle of this. So the point is rather moot. No?

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Response to stopdiggin (Reply #4)

Sat Oct 8, 2022, 01:13 AM

8. Sandra Bland comes to mind.

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Response to niyad (Reply #8)

Sat Oct 8, 2022, 02:04 AM

10. Her story is devastating!

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Response to rainy (Reply #10)

Sat Oct 8, 2022, 02:28 AM

12. Indeed it is.

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Response to niyad (Reply #8)

Sat Oct 8, 2022, 11:03 AM

14. and kind of illustrates why the "traffic stop"

line doesn't really stand up very well.
- Wikipedia - The exchange escalated, resulting in Bland's arrest and a charge of assaulting a police officer. The arrest was partially recorded by Encinia's dashcam, a bystander's cell phone, and Bland's own cell phone. After authorities reviewed the dashcam footage, Encinia was placed on administrative leave for failing to follow proper traffic stop procedures.


Thousands upon thousands of traffic stops occur every day - the tiny minority that end up 'incarcerated' almost never wind up there on account of traffic violations. (warrants, weapons and drugs lead the way by wide margins) Am I giving 'bad policing' a pass by insisting on that basic truth? Not from where I stand.
------ ------

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Response to RickHworth (Original post)

Fri Oct 7, 2022, 11:53 PM

5. Compare circumstances

DOJ is meticulous, as we're seeing in the Oath Keepers trial.

And when it comes to cases involving classified documents, DOJ also is meticulous.

For example, Sandy Berger walked out of NARA with classified documents. That he had done so was discovered by NARA in October 2003 and referred to DOJ shortly thereafter. He was never arrested. He was investigated (an investigation that wasn't publicly acknowledged until 2004) and then plead guilty in 2005 to a misdemeanor and sentenced to two years of probation -- he never spent a day in jail, either before or after his guilty plea.

Or, more recently, federal authorities began investigating Benjamin Pierce Bishop with electronic surveillance at least as early as September 2012 and conducted a search of his home in November 2012. That investigation and search established that he was passing classified information to a Chinese citizen and that he also was in possession of classified materials in his home. A criminal complaint was not sworn out against Bishop until March 2013. Initially, he was released to a halfway house pending trial but he violated the terms of his pre-trial release and returned to custody. But he wasn't sentenced, as part of a plea agreement, until March 2014 -- 18 months after the investigation began.

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Response to RickHworth (Original post)

Sat Oct 8, 2022, 01:29 AM

9. Yes.

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Response to RickHworth (Original post)

Sat Oct 8, 2022, 02:16 AM

11. American exceptionalism?

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Response to RickHworth (Original post)

Sat Oct 8, 2022, 02:28 AM

13. Different rule enforcement for the patrician and plebeian classes.

Same as it always was.

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