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Wed Sep 28, 2022, 08:11 AM

Neoliberalism - the ideology at the root of all our problems

Last edited Wed Sep 28, 2022, 02:18 PM - Edit history (1)

The ideology that dominates our lives has, for most of us, no name. Mention it in conversation and youíll be rewarded with a shrug. Even if your listeners have heard the term before, they will struggle to define it. Neoliberalism: do you know what it is?

Its anonymity is both a symptom and cause of its power. It has played a major role in a remarkable variety of crises: the financial meltdown of 2007‑8, the offshoring of wealth and power, of which the Panama Papers offer us merely a glimpse, the slow collapse of public health and education, resurgent child poverty, the epidemic of loneliness, the collapse of ecosystems, the rise of Donald Trump. But we respond to these crises as if they emerge in isolation, apparently unaware that they have all been either catalysed or exacerbated by the same coherent philosophy; a philosophy that has Ė or had Ė a name. What greater power can there be than to operate namelessly?


https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/15/neoliberalism-ideology-problem-george-monbiot

Neoliberalism is anti-human and anti-civilization. It's at the heart of everything that's wrong in our country. The Biden administration and the Democratic party are moving away from it which is one of the reasons why the Fed is jacking up interest rates. They want economic pain in order to get Democrats voted out.

--Edited to Add--
Coincidentally, there's another thread about the CBO report on income inequality. This is the end result of neo-liberalism:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217203384

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Reply Neoliberalism - the ideology at the root of all our problems (Original post)
Yavin4 Sep 2022 OP
malaise Sep 2022 #1
TomCADem Sep 2022 #39
brooklynite Sep 2022 #2
Yavin4 Sep 2022 #6
Fiendish Thingy Sep 2022 #15
Yavin4 Sep 2022 #17
Fiendish Thingy Sep 2022 #20
comradebillyboy Sep 2022 #3
betsuni Sep 2022 #4
Just A Box Of Rain Sep 2022 #5
Yavin4 Sep 2022 #9
Just A Box Of Rain Sep 2022 #24
Just A Box Of Rain Sep 2022 #48
Fiendish Thingy Sep 2022 #14
leftstreet Sep 2022 #22
Just A Box Of Rain Sep 2022 #23
Fiendish Thingy Sep 2022 #30
Just A Box Of Rain Sep 2022 #32
Fiendish Thingy Sep 2022 #34
Just A Box Of Rain Sep 2022 #35
betsuni Sep 2022 #38
Just A Box Of Rain Sep 2022 #40
Yavin4 Sep 2022 #7
ShazamIam Sep 2022 #8
Beastly Boy Sep 2022 #10
betsuni Sep 2022 #16
Justice matters. Sep 2022 #21
Just A Box Of Rain Sep 2022 #25
Fiendish Thingy Sep 2022 #11
scarletlib Sep 2022 #12
Yavin4 Sep 2022 #18
Edim Sep 2022 #13
I_UndergroundPanther Sep 2022 #33
mathematic Sep 2022 #19
muriel_volestrangler Sep 2022 #26
mathematic Sep 2022 #27
muriel_volestrangler Sep 2022 #43
mathematic Sep 2022 #46
muriel_volestrangler Sep 2022 #49
mathematic Sep 2022 #56
Just A Box Of Rain Sep 2022 #57
Just A Box Of Rain Sep 2022 #28
hedda_foil Sep 2022 #29
Just A Box Of Rain Sep 2022 #31
muriel_volestrangler Sep 2022 #41
Just A Box Of Rain Sep 2022 #44
muriel_volestrangler Sep 2022 #45
Just A Box Of Rain Sep 2022 #47
muriel_volestrangler Sep 2022 #50
Just A Box Of Rain Sep 2022 #51
muriel_volestrangler Sep 2022 #52
Just A Box Of Rain Sep 2022 #53
muriel_volestrangler Sep 2022 #54
Just A Box Of Rain Sep 2022 #55
many a good man Sep 2022 #36
Sympthsical Sep 2022 #37
Yavin4 Sep 2022 #42

Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 08:12 AM

1. THIS

Rec

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Response to malaise (Reply #1)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 12:41 PM

39. ...makes no sense.

Fed is raising interest rates in response to inflation, and inflation is slowing as a result. If inflation continued to grow, middle class spending power will erode.

It is not some mystical QAnonish effort to pay homage to the deity of Neoliberalism whatever that is.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 08:14 AM

2. You have evidence that the Federal Reserve is attempting to get Republicans elected?

Of course not.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #2)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 09:22 AM

6. Since the 1980s, the Fed has used interest rates to effectuate political outcomes. n/t

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 09:48 AM

15. Examples?

Was former fed chair Yellen, now in Bidenís cabinet, using rate hikes in 2017-18 to hurt Dems in the midterms?

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #15)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 09:58 AM

17. See Greenspan jacking up interest rates in 2000.

which hurt Gore's chances. This was after he promised Clinton that if Clinton cut the deficit, he would keep rates low. Well, Clinton did just that at great political costs, but Greenspan still raised rates unnecessarily.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #17)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 10:26 AM

20. Any others?

The Fed raised rates in 2004, was that an attempt to get Bush out of the WH?

You also ignored Yellenís hikes prior to the 2018 midterms.

You simply cannot prove your claim that the Fedís actions are politically motivated.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 08:42 AM

3. Whatever I don't like is neoliberal.

I've seen everyone and everything to the right of Bernie Sanders labelled a neoliberal. The word may have meant something at one time but now it's completely devoid of meaning. It's just used to insult people who aren't "progressive" enough.

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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 08:52 AM

4. +1

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Response to betsuni (Reply #4)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 08:59 AM

5. It is a bullshit term that's used to slander anyone who doesn't embrace socialism.

I thought this was a forum for liberal Democrats?

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Response to Just A Box Of Rain (Reply #5)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 09:24 AM

9. So, labor unions are socialist now?

Yes. This is a forum for Liberal Democrats who want Social Democracy.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #9)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 10:44 AM

24. No. All social democratic countries (and movements) embrace advanced capitalism and are NOT

socialist states with socialist economies.

Some people are either deeply confused (or disingenuous) about that.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #9)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 01:57 PM

48. I strongly support labor unions.

I appreciate not being the subject of false accusations.

Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism are not synonymous terms. Not close.

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Response to Just A Box Of Rain (Reply #5)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 09:46 AM

14. It's an economic, not left/right, ideology

Neoliberalism is often used inaccurately as a left/right political epithet, but not in this article.

Neoliberalism is an actual, defined, economic ideology that has been embraced by certain members of both parties.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #14)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 10:33 AM

22. +1

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #14)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 10:37 AM

23. Since when is economics divorced from political ideologies?

There is already a widely used political term in American discourse that's to describe so-called "neoliberalism" and that's "libertarianism."

The use of the term "neoliberal" or "neoliberalism" is being used by socialists in an attempt to smear liberals who they see as capitalist-roaders.

Let's not kid ourselves. This is part of an attack on the values of the liberal Democratic Party.

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Response to Just A Box Of Rain (Reply #23)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 11:22 AM

30. Libertarianism is much broader than neoliberalism

Libertarianism encompasses all aspects of politics and life, whereas neoliberalism focuses specifically on economic policy, and is mute on most other issues.

Criticizing neoliberalism is not an attack on the values of the liberal Democratic Party, but rather a criticism of those who use neoliberalism to stealthily undermine the liberal values of the Democratic Party.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #30)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 11:30 AM

32. As I said, if one wished to narrow the focus one could use the well-understood term...

"economic libertarianism."

There is an agenda behind the use of the term "neoliberalism" that aims to undermine "liberalism" by trying to undermine a liberal embrace of advanced capitalism by people like Elizabeth "I'm a capitalist to my bones" Warren instead of embracing socialism.

This is the reality.

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Response to Just A Box Of Rain (Reply #32)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 11:44 AM

34. Warren is the furthest thing from a neoliberal

I donít recall anyone calling her a neoliberal, not Bernie, not AOC, nobody.

Warren is for regulated, accountable capitalism, which is not what neoliberalism stands for.

Other Democrats have been accurately criticized for embracing neoliberal economic policies, but Warren isnít one of them.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #34)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 11:50 AM

35. Which is precisely why the use of the term "neoliberal" (as it is most commonly used) is a slur.

Socialists (in the main) are opposed to regulated, accountable capitalism and see those who attempt to "reform" an "unreformable" economic system as being on the wrong side.

See the DSA website for more details.

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Response to Just A Box Of Rain (Reply #5)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 12:37 PM

38. A cheap both sides insult -- the idea that unregulated capitalism is a Democratic policy!

A common insult directed at the Obama administration and by 2016 you couldn't go three minutes without seeing someone getting worked up about imaginary neoliberal corporatist Democrats under the bed. And the earnest gaslighting explanations that no no no look, neoliberal is a real word.

I really wish they'd stop making neoliberal the insult happen. It isn't going to happen.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #38)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 12:53 PM

40. Exactly.

It is an utterly transparent slur that's been aimed at mainstream Democrats, with laughable claims of "plausible deniability" on the part of those making the attacks.

Basta!

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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 09:23 AM

7. Did you even read the article?

I guess not.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 09:23 AM

8. Wow and finallyfrom a top tier publisher. Beginning in 1969 our government was turned against us,

followed up by the open destruction of a public serving government beginning 1981. Wage suppression, jobs exported, and high inflation impoverished our once thriving and home owning working class.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 09:35 AM

10. Neoliberalism is dead. Has been for most of the 21st century.

I don't understand the people who are stuck with bringing up neoliberalism as having much relevance in the current economics or politics.

Sure, it still lives on as an ideology among some old farts who fondly recall the "good ole times" of Reagan, Thatcher, Milton Friedman and the like, and who generously contribute their ill gotten wealth to various like-minded think tanks. But neoliberalism as an economic philosophy has been discredited long ago. Yet, the left appears to be still slapping the "neoliberal" label on anyone they consider to be their adversary, and still lamenting their failure to do anything about it. Well, the reason the left can do nothing about neolibeeralism is because there is no need to do anything. Not too many people left to pretend neoliberalism is relevant, let alone instrumental, in so many of the world's ills.

Contrary to the persistent legendary status of neoliberalism, the current global economic climate is defined by the principles antithetical to neoliberalism: collusion of big business and government, elimination of competition on the global scale that require actions by the government, heavy reliance on government subsidies and favorable tax policies and, consequently, bloated government bureaucracy. It is no longer government "freeing" the markets and leaving them to their own devices, it is government heavily involved in regulations that favor big business. If anyone is looking for something to do about it, it is the government they should be concerned about. And, thankfully, we all have a say in it, at least at the present moment. You want to change anything? Change the government.

But the left keeps fighting the windmills of neoliberalism and wondering why they are so ineffective in their fight.

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Response to Beastly Boy (Reply #10)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 09:51 AM

16. +1

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Response to Beastly Boy (Reply #10)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 10:28 AM

21. Replaced by growing Fascism under disguise of "populism" exploited by media moguls. eom

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Response to Beastly Boy (Reply #10)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 10:49 AM

25. You nailed it. This is a smear flung by socialists at anyone who doesn't embrace their ideology.

The same thing happened in 1930s Germany when the German Communist Party declared the liberal Social Democrats to the "social fascists" and then attacked SDP (instead of the Nazis) under the rubric of being "anti-fascist."

History too often repeats itself.

Don't fall for it.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 09:37 AM

11. You don't present any evidence to support your thesis

That the Fed is jacking interest rates to affect the midterm elections.

Was Janet Yellen, Bidenís current Secretary of the Treasury, jacking interest rates in 2017 to harm the Dems in the 2018 midterms?

While itís refreshing to see an accurate discussion of neoliberalism as an economic ideology rather than a left/right political ideology, you donít present any evidence to support your opinions regarding the motivation of the Fed.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #11)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 09:38 AM

12. Absolutely the truth.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #11)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 09:58 AM

18. See my reply at 17. n/t

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 09:43 AM

13. What dominates our lives is called corporatocracy.

Corporatocracy is an economic, political and judicial system controlled by corporations or corporate interests.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy

Another thing that dominates our lives - kakistocracy.
A kakistocracy is a government run by the worst, least qualified, or most unscrupulous citizens. The word was coined as early as the seventeenth century.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakistocracy

Idiocracy, rule by idiots, dominates our lives too.

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Response to Edim (Reply #13)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 11:39 AM

33. I agree

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 10:20 AM

19. George Monbiot is a degrowth doomer. He's all in on "anti-human" and "anti-civilization" policies.

Hard to imagine somebody sitting down in 2022, with literal fascism on the rise and on the march, and think a dis-liked flavor of liberalism is the root of our problems.

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Response to mathematic (Reply #19)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 10:53 AM

26. Bullshit.

He's an environmentalist, so he does know that growth is something that has to have limits. He's not in the least "anti-human" or "anti-civilization" - that's a stupid right wing smear to use on environmentalists. Neoliberalism is not a "flavor of liberalism" in terms that a DUer (or American) would see liberalism - it's economic libertarianism, as the article explains. And it was written in 2016.

But as to whether this is not the root of our problems:

Attempts to limit competition are treated as inimical to liberty. Tax and regulation should be minimised, public services should be privatised. The organisation of labour and collective bargaining by trade unions are portrayed as market distortions that impede the formation of a natural hierarchy of winners and losers. Inequality is recast as virtuous: a reward for utility and a generator of wealth, which trickles down to enrich everyone. Efforts to create a more equal society are both counterproductive and morally corrosive. The market ensures that everyone gets what they deserve.

check out what's happening to the UK. The Tory government just got rid of the top 45% income tax rate, claiming this would generate growth, which they say is the answer to all our problems.




They say that growing inequality is fine (the IMF heavily criticized them for their policies on that). They are planning low-tax, low-regulation "investment zones".

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #26)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 11:07 AM

27. "'Green growth' doesn't exist - less of everything is the only way to avert catastrophe"

"We have no hope of emerging from this full-spectrum crisis unless we dramatically reduce economic activity. "

That IS de-growth. So go call bullshit on yourself.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/29/green-growth-economic-activity-environment

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Response to mathematic (Reply #27)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 01:23 PM

43. The bullshit was your stupid insults of him

Yes, as a sensible environmentalist, he writes articles saying that economic growth is ruining the global environment. That is basic truth. Saving the environment is not "anti-human" or "anti-civilization". It's pro-both.

But the subject is neoliberalism. You tried to kill the messenger by saying Monbiot is anti-human. You've failed. Have you anything to say about neoliberalism?

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #43)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 01:44 PM

46. Oh, just another british burden to bring environmentalism to the global masses

Today: neoliberalism is economic libertarianism
Tomorrow: Obama and Clinton are neoliberals

Don't think people don't see what you're doing here with this rhetoric. You're trying to discredit liberal economics by associating them with an ideology of 19th century economics. You want credibility here? Let's see you defend Obama and Clinton when people call them neoliberals as fervently as you've defended Monbiot when I called him something he's admitted to being--a degrowther.


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Response to mathematic (Reply #46)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 01:58 PM

49. More bullshit from you.

"You're trying to discredit liberal economics"

What crap. I already said to you "neoliberalism is not a "flavor of liberalism" in terms that a DUer (or American) would see liberalism". But here you are, trying to pretend that I'm saying anything at all about "liberal economics".

Clinton was a neoliberal. Many people were in the 1990s. It was the "Washington Consensus", and the USA supported it in international policy then. And Clinton's domestic policy could be neoliberal too:

KAPLAN-LEVENSON: So, like, we'll help you, but only up to a point. Then you're on your own. But you'll be better off because you'll be able to make more money that way than living off a government handout. This thinking basically describes Clinton's signature Welfare to Work reform, which pulled the plug on welfare services after two years.
...
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

CLINTON: It gives us a chance we haven't had before to break the cycle of dependency that has existed for millions and millions of our fellow citizens, exiling them from the world of work that gives structure, meaning and dignity to most of our lives.
...
CLINTON: The era of big government is over.

https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1091050251

I wouldn't call Obama a neoliberal. His policies did not just leave everything to "markets" - he intervened, organised bailouts of vital industries and so on. But then, Obama isn't mentioned in the Monbiot article, or in this thread, apart from two of you complaining about the application of "neoliberal" to Obama. You're crying wolf. Or continuing to try and paint any used of "neoliberal" as somehow wrong, as if you can wish away the existence of the concept by having no one ever mention it.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #49)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 02:45 PM

56. Now Bill Clinton, who, when he had a D congress, raised taxes is an economic libertarian? LOL

He tried to get universal healthcare passed! He passed the family and medical leave act! These are all policies anathema to economic libertarians.

So when you say, no neoliberalism isn't just a flavor of liberal economics and btw bill clinton is an economic libertarian EXCUSE ME FOR BEING SKEPTICAL.

You say that I'm crying wolf and here you are saying Clinton is a economic libertarian. I guess just like in the story the wolf did come.

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Response to mathematic (Reply #46)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 02:48 PM

57. I seems as if you've nailed it.

It is sad to see such transparent attacks on people like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama on a forum for Democrats.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #26)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 11:07 AM

28. Then why not say "libertarianism" or "economic libertarianism?"

Everyone understands what that means in political discourse.

Instead, "neoliberalism" is dredged up as a slur cast at anyone who doesn't embrace socialism.

It is a transparent form of "re-framing" and gaslighting.

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Response to Just A Box Of Rain (Reply #28)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 11:21 AM

29. Neoliberalism is the technical economic terminology.

It is completely unrelated to American political liberalism. Please look it up and do some reading.

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Response to hedda_foil (Reply #29)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 11:25 AM

31. I studied political science and political economy as my major in university.

I'm more than aware what the terms mean (and how they are used and misused).

"Neoliberalism" is the same thing as "economic libertarianism." The latter term is common in American political discourse, while the former is most often used by socialists who seek to smear anyone who doesn't embrace socialism, including liberal Democrats.

Let's be real here.

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Response to Just A Box Of Rain (Reply #28)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 01:14 PM

41. Because "libertarianism" is a specific American word

and "neoliberalism" has been far more common since the late 1990s: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=neoliberalism%2Clibertarianism%2Ceconomic+libertarianism&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3

I'm extremely concerned to find someone on DU who seems to want to denigrate socialism to be repeatedly talking about 'a transparent form of "re-framing" and gaslighting'. It's almost as if you're trying to make neoliberalism look normal, to make "socialism" into a scare term, and to make people think that "neoliberalism" is not a current term, and that their memory of neoliberalism being a common description of international economic theory is wrong.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #41)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 01:25 PM

44. I'm not sure about the basis for your concern.

As far as I'm aware this is a forum for liberal Democrats and not a socialist forum.

"Re-framing" and "gaslighting" attacks on our party and our liberal ideology are serious concerns AFAIC.

The resurgence of the term neoliberalism since the 1990s has primarily been a tool of the far-left to slur Democrats like Bill Clinton along with associated slurs such as "corporate Democrats" and established Democrats," and such slurs have typically been mixed and matched with "neoliberalism."

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Response to Just A Box Of Rain (Reply #44)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 01:42 PM

45. Did you even bother looking at the graph of word usage?

It's not a "resurgence" - "neoliberalism" is the standard term, and has been used more and more, steadily, since the 1990s. It's not just used by the far left, it's used by any economic commentator. Foer example, from the same year that Monbiot was writing: Fortune: Even the IMF Now Admits Neoliberalism Has Failed

or British academics: Austerity politics, global neoliberalism, and the official discourse within the IMF

Maybe you need to read this: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/neoliberalism/

and maybe you need to stop thinking everything is a criticism of your personal stance. Monbiot did not write something in 2016 to attack a DUer in 2022. The basis of my concern is that you appear to be defending neoliberalism, and using 'socialism' to scare people.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #45)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 01:51 PM

47. What George Monbiot did in 2016 was to support Jeremy Corbyn for the leadership of the Labour Party

and its candidate for PM, a move that has caused such harm to the Labour Party in the UK that one wonders if/when they will ever recover.

This brush with Corbynism has handed the Conservatives the majority ever since, despite their obvious incompetence in government.

So I will decline to turn to those like Monbiot for political wisdom. Thank you anyway.

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Response to Just A Box Of Rain (Reply #47)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 02:06 PM

50. No attempt to avoid the subject there, I see

I'm asking you to read the Stanford entry on neoliberalism. And then, maybe, to apply that to what is now happening in the UK, and ask yourself if "neoliberalism" is not in fact still alive and kicking - currently kicking the UK financial system into the ditch.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #50)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 02:12 PM

51. Yes, economic libertarianism is the dominant ideology of the Conservative Party in the UK,

and especially that of the new PM Elizabeth Truss.

If people like George Monbiot had not decimated the popularity of the Labour Party by supporting the likes of Jeremy Corbyn in all likelihood the Tories would have been tossed from power by now.

We should pay attention.

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Response to Just A Box Of Rain (Reply #51)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 02:21 PM

52. So why have you made post after post claiming it's used to attack mainstream Democrats

even ones like Elizabeth Warren? That's why you're the one doing the "re-framing" and "gaslighting". An OP says, correctly, that Biden and the Democratic party is moving away from it, and you come out with bullshit like "I thought this was a forum for liberal Democrats?".

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #52)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 02:25 PM

53. Because it is the obvious truth.

Democrats from Bill Clinton, to Barack Obama, and Joe Biden have been bashed as "neoliberals."

Even what you write here: "An OP says, correctly, that Biden and the Democratic party is moving away from it" suggests that the Democratic Party once embraced neoliberalism, as one can't "move away" from something that one has not held as one's authentic position.

Do you not see that?

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Response to Just A Box Of Rain (Reply #53)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 02:36 PM

54. Bill Clinton was neoliberal. That's the obvious truth.

See reply #49. Tony Blair was neoliberal too.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #54)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 02:43 PM

55. Well, there you go.

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Response to mathematic (Reply #19)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 12:05 PM

36. Neoliberalism is not "liberal" in the current sense of the term

And the author makes the point that the collapse of neoliberalism is what is putting the world in its current predicament.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 12:15 PM

37. And many anti-Trumpers are neoliberals

Why this is overlooked is baffling. I get "enemy of my enemy" thinking, and I'm all for that in specific targeted circumstances like the Jan 6th committee.

But then I see sentiments like, "We should invite Liz Cheney into our big tent!" and it's like . . . what? Did we not see what neoliberalism has done for the past twenty years? The Lincoln Project hates Trump? Great! So do I. But I still don't want to promote them as any part of my party or ideology.

Short-term interests have papered over and rehabilitated a lot of the people who have wrought havoc across our economic and social landscape for as long as I've been alive. I keep trying to tell people who Like The Tweets, Steve Schmidt is the guy who gave us Jusitce "Dobbs" Alito.

When Trump exits the stage, naturally or legally, the neoliberals will pounce. They will attempt to reclaim the party. They see DeSantis as a uniquely situated politician who can bridge the divide across Trump and neoliberalism. And once they're firmly back in control of the Republican Party, guess what policies they'll push?

It won't be the policies of "Tweets I Like"

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Response to Sympthsical (Reply #37)

Wed Sep 28, 2022, 01:18 PM

42. A lot of Democrats have completely forgotten about the Iraq war.

A lot of these Lincoln project people are the neo-conservatives who promoted that war. Air America radio, the precursor to MSNBC, was started as a response to the Iraq war.

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