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Fri Sep 23, 2022, 09:47 PM

Should masks return in fall and winter to prevent a COVID surge?

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/masks-return-fall-winter-prevent-covid-surge/story?id=90316370

However, experts admitted it will be hard to convince Americans to wear masks again after so many cities and states have done away with mandates.

Los Angeles, San Francisco and Denver remain the three biggest cities in the U.S. where masks are still required on public transit. In most cities, only health care environments still require mask mandates.

Ray said he believes a surge, similar to those caused by the delta and the omicron variants, would be the only thing drum up support of mandates.

"I think that people are really tired of this pandemic and there is, culturally, very little appetite for mandates, for masking," Ray said. "And so, it's a steep climb to tell people unless there's a particular context in which it's important, like a health care setting when there are many vulnerable people."

62 replies, 1824 views

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Arrow 62 replies Author Time Post
Reply Should masks return in fall and winter to prevent a COVID surge? (Original post)
pstokely Sep 2022 OP
dchill Sep 2022 #1
we can do it Sep 2022 #2
yortsed snacilbuper Sep 2022 #3
we can do it Sep 2022 #7
sheshe2 Sep 2022 #29
sheshe2 Sep 2022 #30
SheltieLover Sep 2022 #4
wnylib Sep 2022 #49
electric_blue68 Sep 2022 #5
electric_blue68 Sep 2022 #6
David__77 Sep 2022 #8
MiniMe Sep 2022 #9
tirebiter Sep 2022 #10
Hekate Sep 2022 #11
wnylib Sep 2022 #51
Hekate Sep 2022 #59
Ocelot II Sep 2022 #12
RockRaven Sep 2022 #13
LineLineReply +
Meowmee Sep 2022 #26
jimfields33 Sep 2022 #39
Elessar Zappa Sep 2022 #61
magicarpet Sep 2022 #14
former9thward Sep 2022 #32
magicarpet Sep 2022 #41
FuzzyRabbit Sep 2022 #15
GP6971 Sep 2022 #16
Lucinda Sep 2022 #20
Demobrat Sep 2022 #17
Lithos Sep 2022 #18
Ms. Toad Sep 2022 #22
Lithos Sep 2022 #25
Ms. Toad Sep 2022 #37
LetMyPeopleVote Sep 2022 #19
Ms. Toad Sep 2022 #21
keep_left Sep 2022 #28
Ms. Toad Sep 2022 #34
Takket Sep 2022 #50
keep_left Sep 2022 #53
Ace Rothstein Sep 2022 #23
pstokely Sep 2022 #27
Ms. Toad Sep 2022 #35
Ace Rothstein Sep 2022 #38
Ms. Toad Sep 2022 #40
LuckyCharms Sep 2022 #24
Meowmee Sep 2022 #31
DontBelieveEastisEas Sep 2022 #33
Ms. Toad Sep 2022 #36
DontBelieveEastisEas Sep 2022 #45
LuckyCharms Sep 2022 #42
Dorian Gray Sep 2022 #43
scarletlib Sep 2022 #44
BlackSkimmer Sep 2022 #46
EnergizedLib Sep 2022 #47
Demsrule86 Sep 2022 #48
beaglelover Sep 2022 #52
Tree Lady Sep 2022 #54
ProfessorGAC Sep 2022 #55
Tree Lady Sep 2022 #58
tritsofme Sep 2022 #56
Wingus Dingus Sep 2022 #57
maxsolomon Sep 2022 #60
alphafemale Sep 2022 #62

Response to pstokely (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 09:48 PM

1. They kind of have returned in stores.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 09:48 PM

2. Return? Never stopped. No colds, no flu, no Covid.

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Response to we can do it (Reply #2)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 09:49 PM

3. ditto!

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Response to yortsed snacilbuper (Reply #3)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 09:51 PM

7. It's really not that hard.

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Response to we can do it (Reply #2)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 11:19 PM

29. I never stopped either.

Ditto on the rest.

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Response to we can do it (Reply #2)


Response to pstokely (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 09:50 PM

4. Yes, they should, but no, they likely won't

I still wear a NIOSH N-95 in public & have no intention of going without one.

Denying the existence of COVID will not render it a moot point.

😷👍

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Response to SheltieLover (Reply #4)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 09:50 AM

49. Same here. I even wear one outdoors if

there is a lot of crowding close together.

The stalls at our outdoor farmer's market are set up in a way that puts people shoulder to shoulder with faces inches away when looking at produce and paying for it. So I wear my mask there.

This is a small city. I live within walking distance of a shopping center, a convenience store, and a local library branch, so I walk for the exercise. I am short and have shoulder length, mostly white hair. So I am easily recognized as the "little old mask lady" in a town where almost nobody else wears one.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 09:50 PM

5. Didn't stop either. So far so good.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)


Response to pstokely (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 09:55 PM

8. As a requirement they will not.

Ö

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 09:56 PM

9. I never stopped and don't plan on stopping

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 09:57 PM

10. Prevention is rarely rewarded. Wars, disease, forest fires, floods, you name it. The majority

always wants to kick the can down the road. What, pay now? Canít afford it now.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 09:58 PM

11. Seldom without mine, so whatever

Just saw my doc day before yesterday and all who enter are required to be masked. All who work there are masked.

Went to the County shot clinic afterward and got my booster, and same thing.

Went to Costco to pick up a few things after that, put on my mask as a matter of course. I donít really care any more who does or does not wear theirs.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #11)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 09:58 AM

51. I was appalled when I went to a doctor this summer and

nobody in the large, filled waiting room wore a mask. Doctors and staff did not wear one either. I was the ONLY one with a mask.

That office shares its waiting room with an oncology practice. Appalled? More like horrified.

A couple days later, they sent me an email asking how I would rate the office and treatment I got, on a scale of 0 to 10. I checked 0 and said in the comments section that I was surprised that they asked my opinion. If they don't care about their patients' health enough to wear masks, why would they care about my opinion on anything?

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Response to wnylib (Reply #51)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 01:23 PM

59. I do expect my medical folks to wear masks, & they all have the sense to do it. Big sign on the door

Ö and verbal notification when you make an appointment. I care very much about that kind of close-quarters interaction.

Itís just that for the rest of the country, all the businesses and such, masks are part of the stupid MAGA culture wars, and MAGA warriors are tiresome. I donít blame the government for giving up at this point, now that vaccinations are available.

Anyway, I just pick my battles. I went to a delightful block party last weekend, all outdoors, no masks, no alcohol, potluck. First time in 3 years. Our HOA hosted it, and invited neighbors from all around. My gods it was good to be with a crowd of happy people again.









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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 10:01 PM

12. Doubtful they'll be mandated, but I still wear mine

in crowded places indoors, and will keep doing it.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 10:05 PM

13. Americans are such spoiled fucking babies, it's like we are a society founded on sociopathy.

How we insist upon pissing away all of our good fortune in material/technological advantages has got to be perplexing to other nations who do more with less, and do it with so much more dignity/empathy/humanity.

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Response to RockRaven (Reply #13)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 11:14 PM

26. +

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Response to RockRaven (Reply #13)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 11:55 PM

39. President Biden said it's over.

I trust him fully. He knows all the information more than any of us do.

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #39)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 01:28 PM

61. The pandemic phase is over but

thereís still a few hundred a day dying of it, which isnít insignificant. That said, I donít wear a mask unless Iím in a crowded, indoor place like a concert or something.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 10:07 PM

14. Oh God don't say Covid face masks.

The MAGA crowd will run get their guns and fire bullets into the sky to warn us - no mask mandates.

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Response to magicarpet (Reply #14)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 11:22 PM

32. What blue cities or states have mandates?

I don't think it is the MAGA crowd stopping anything.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #32)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 01:51 AM

41. No, sorry no specific mask mandates yet this fall or winter.


Just saying after the past history we saw of the MAGA crowd,.. any mere mention of Covid masks causes them to freak out, threaten other folks, and violently refuse to wear a mask themselves.

This fall and winter after we all get back inside and return to enclosed areas Covid could spike and spread. Wearing face masks in crowded areas might be a very wise thing to do.

But expect no help or cooperation from the MAGA crowd in that regard. They are bull headed meatheads when it comes to mitigation of Covid so deaths don't spike and sky rocket up needlessly.

We will shortly see what fall/winter has in store for us pertaining to the continuing saga of the pandemic.

Going to get the new booster shot with the variant 4 & 5 included. Looking for the 2022/2023 high potency senior's flu shot too.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 10:08 PM

15. I still wear a mask whenever I go out, shopping for example.

Whenever I see anyone else wearing a mask (many people still do) I think "there is an intelligent person".

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 10:10 PM

16. We've never stopped.

We always mask up in public and don't plan to stop.

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Response to GP6971 (Reply #16)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 10:52 PM

20. +1

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 10:21 PM

17. Where I live

masks are required in doctorís offices and at the museum I went to the other day. They are not mandated on public transportation, but most people wear them. In stores itís probably 30-40%, depending on how crowded the store is. People are a little more relaxed, but still being cautious.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 10:41 PM

18. Mostly I do not see masks

When I pick up my kids from school (they all wear masks) - I see maybe 10-15% compliance. But in most retail stores - seems to be maybe 2-5%. For some circumstances - Walmart, etc. - masks seem to be the exception.

At this point, i consider Covid now to be Endemic - not Pandemic. However, given the percentage (albeit anecdotal) - people are opting to avoid masks when they are sick - meaning things are not quite settled down to what most people think of as Endemic.

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Response to Lithos (Reply #18)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 10:59 PM

22. Endemic and pandemic have specific meanings,

And COVID is still a pandemic.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #22)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 11:02 PM

25. I know of the traditional meaning

Endemic is within a specific region while Pandemic is cross region...

But I think the definitions are out-dated in some respect. Endemic is within a specific cultural/behavioral group while Pandemic means spreading between these groups. Not regional, but cultural... It's a stretch - but covers the differing cultural norms.

L-

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Response to Lithos (Reply #25)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 11:48 PM

37. You don't just get to change the meanings of scientific terms

because you think a different meaning is better.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 10:49 PM

19. I am still wearing my mask

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 10:57 PM

21. It should never have stopped in the first place.

All of Ohio, the last time I checked, was red on the transmission map (the original measure for masking). Unfortunately, most people don't know that, since the CDC is now touting the community level, which requires a super-high transmission level before the map budges from green.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #21)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 11:18 PM

28. Here's a link to the CDC community transmission map.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-view?list_select_state=all_states&list_select_county=all_counties&data-type=Risk

This is the original measurement that was used for Covid cases. Since then, the CDC has gone to the "community level" measurement, and I can't remember what that actually measures (hospital capacity?).

You're right--by the older standard, Ohio looks like it is completely red, as do a number of other states.

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Response to keep_left (Reply #28)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 11:39 PM

34. It measures a combination of things -

But most heavily weighed - in essence - is the current capacity of the hospital to handle the caseload. Which isuseful if the only goal is to ensure hospitals aren't flooded with more cases than they can handle. The community transmission level is a component - BUT - it doesn't budge the community level from green unless it goes over 200 cases/100,000 people over a 1 week period. (The community transmission level - the guiding factor until ~ just before the state of the union was red (or orange, at least) at 50 cases/100,000 people over a 1 week period)

So the (assinine) message is that spreading COVID is just fine, as long as we don't spread enough to overwhelm our hospitals. Completely ignoring long COVID (including conditions which are, themselves, life threatening). Completely ignoring the fact that we know virtually nothing about the long-term consequences - and what we do know is bad.

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Response to keep_left (Reply #28)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 09:57 AM

50. Holy crap the entire country is red!!!

Last time I looked it wasnít nearly that bad!

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Response to Takket (Reply #50)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 12:19 PM

53. Well, maybe not ALL red...

...but certainly it's not a good look. It appears that a lot of the areas that aren't red (high transmission) are relatively rural or low-population areas of the country. Which makes sense as we're dealing with a variant of the virus that is approximately as contagious as measles. And when you combine the insanity of antivaxxers and a population 50% of which is unboosted (more or less), this result shouldn't be too surprising.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 11:00 PM

23. There were mask mandates in plenty of places last year and they didn't stop a surge.

What will be different this time around?

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Response to Ace Rothstein (Reply #23)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 11:17 PM

27. there was lax enforcement, and would be again

and much of the spread occurred (and still occurs) at private gatherings in homes

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Response to Ace Rothstein (Reply #23)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 11:42 PM

35. Go back and look at the statistics in any community starting 2 weeks after a mask mandate

was implemented - the cases took a dramatic downturn. (Or compare the curves in places which mandated masks with those which didn't.)

Masks can't stop all disease transmission, but they are extremely effective when followed. The dramatic downturn in cases approximately 2 weeks after mask mandates were implemented gives you a taste of the much more significant surge that would have taken place had the mandates not been in place.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #35)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 11:54 PM

38. With Omicron? I don't believe that was the case.

Many states and localities already had mask mandates in place when Omicron hit and still saw their largest waves of the pandemic.

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Response to Ace Rothstein (Reply #38)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 12:06 AM

40. Mask mandates, as a general rule, weren't started during omicron.

They were implemented more than a year earlier, and were largely lifted by the time omicron came around. While there were some jurisdictions which continued their mandates, most had been lifted by then. So as to omicron, you don't have a before and after (i.e. omicron surging, mask mandate, how did it affecto the surge), and you didn't have a significant number of remaining mask mandates - or compliance with any remaining mask mandates where they existed.

Pretty much impossible to know whether universal mask mandates, universally complied with, would have prevented the omicron surges.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 11:02 PM

24. I've been going out in public a lot more lately.

Always, always, always have an N95 when inside. Sometimes, I even wear it when outside if in close proximity to people. I don't just throw it on either, I make sure it is fitted properly and my glasses are not fogging.

I get looks. Fuck 'em. It's staying on.

I'm vaxxed 5x.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 11:20 PM

31. Still masking everywhere

I hope not to be here at some point and not to have to at some point as well. Who knows though with the stupidity of people being what it is. Lets hope someone comes out with a new vaccine that will cover all future strains.

Our county is now high level alert.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 11:33 PM

33. We are a Social species


Our facial expressions convey thoughts, feelings and emotions.

Our social bonds are made stronger when we do not hide our faces.

Our sexual instincts are inexorably tied to the visual perception of each other's faces.

Our love of life is greater when our faces are not hidden and when we can see other people's faces too.

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Response to DontBelieveEastisEas (Reply #33)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 11:46 PM

36. So we should tell all the doctors and nurses to just stop wearing masks.

While your first statement is true, and likely the third for some people, your second and 4th statements are bunk.

And EVEN if they were all true, the need to minimize transmission of a largely unknown disease - which causes significant (including life-threatening) long term health consequences in around 1/5 people - even those with mild COVID - trumps them all.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #36)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 08:47 AM

45. given a specific reality, you may be right about statements 2 & 4


Statements 2 and 4 are up to debate.

In a perfect world, I believe, that they would be facts.

In a world with 1 or more viruses that can be reduced by wearing a mask there may be a different result.

Could we have tighter social bonds by feeling that we are acting as a group when wearing the masks for the greater good?

If a virus is severe, could it be that our love of life is lessened more by the damage to our health and to our fellow humans than our love of life is lessened by hiding our face when in public?

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Response to DontBelieveEastisEas (Reply #33)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 05:39 AM

42. The virus doesn't care. n/t

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 06:07 AM

43. He's right

in that people won't want to do it. That's the reality we are living with, so we will have to urge more people to get vaccinated/boosted and choose masks.

Schools should ALL have upgraded HEPA units.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 06:40 AM

44. Never stopped wearing my mask.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 09:02 AM

46. I was wearing mine until fairly recently, when in grocery stores.

After I noticed that the president and every single one of our leaders have stopped wearing them, I figured I'd stop too.

Not that I normally care what "leadership' does in terms of health, but I'm thinking they surely must know something we don't, right? I mean Both Biden's have had it, what? twice? And they're not wearing masks.

I'm vaxed and boosted. I keep a mask in my car and generally avoid crowds anyway, so there ya go.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 09:12 AM

47. Yes, I never stopped

I also wish we could have another shutdown/lockdown, too.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 09:48 AM

48. No, It is a losing proposition and the courts are not with us on this. Wear a mask yourself,

get vaccinated...and that is all we can do.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 10:53 AM

52. As of yesterday, masks no longer required on mass transit in Los Angeles.

You don't need to wear them at the airports either anymore.

I'm fine with that.

If you want to wear one, you still can.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 12:43 PM

54. My doctor told me yesterday that if

You got your vaccines and 2 boosters they won't let you get new booster. He was talking about Providence which runs doctors and hospital in my area.

So I wondered what about pharmacies?

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Response to Tree Lady (Reply #54)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 12:47 PM

55. Readily Available Around Here

Every pharmacy around is offering them. If one is on Medicare, there is no copay.

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #55)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 01:21 PM

58. Yes I am thinking its my doctors office

So will try the pharmacy's when ready. I had my last one end of June so going to wait till end of October before a trip I have planned.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 12:50 PM

56. I'm sure more people will voluntarily mask, but we're not going to see mandates comes back.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 12:52 PM

57. If hospitals start filling up again, yes--in those affected areas.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 01:26 PM

60. If a new variant evades the vaccines I guess.

I'm not changing what I do. I wear them on the bus and in the grocery. Not outside, not at work (we have a vax mandate).

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Sat Sep 24, 2022, 01:29 PM

62. So... How do you intend to enforce this?

 

Curious.

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