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Sun Sep 18, 2022, 11:13 AM

Desantis and Abbott are out of control. The government seems helpless to

stop them. Talk, talk, talk and nothing stops them.

56 replies, 1630 views

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Arrow 56 replies Author Time Post
Reply Desantis and Abbott are out of control. The government seems helpless to (Original post)
diehardblue Sep 18 OP
Polly Hennessey Sep 18 #1
onecaliberal Sep 18 #2
NCDem47 Sep 18 #19
Ocelot II Sep 18 #3
Otto_Harper Sep 18 #9
Rstrstx Sep 18 #46
Me. Sep 18 #12
Demsrule86 Sep 18 #23
Me. Sep 18 #37
hamsterjill Sep 18 #13
Ocelot II Sep 18 #17
hamsterjill Sep 18 #20
Ocelot II Sep 18 #26
hamsterjill Sep 18 #27
Ocelot II Sep 18 #28
hamsterjill Sep 18 #32
Ocelot II Sep 18 #34
Mr.Bill Sep 18 #41
hamsterjill Sep 18 #48
RobinA Sep 18 #38
Demsrule86 Sep 18 #24
onecaliberal Sep 18 #4
Demsrule86 Sep 18 #22
Ocelot II Sep 18 #29
LeftInTX Sep 18 #50
tinrobot Sep 18 #30
uponit7771 Sep 18 #33
onecaliberal Sep 19 #55
Srkdqltr Sep 18 #5
Srkdqltr Sep 18 #6
FalloutShelter Sep 18 #7
Demsrule86 Sep 18 #25
PortTack Sep 18 #8
Ocelot II Sep 18 #11
PortTack Sep 18 #35
LeftInTX Sep 18 #52
LeftInTX Sep 18 #53
Name removed Sep 18 #10
Ocelot II Sep 18 #14
Name removed Sep 18 #15
RobinA Sep 18 #39
Hortensis Sep 18 #16
Native Sep 18 #18
Demsrule86 Sep 18 #21
luv2fly Sep 18 #31
Demsrule86 Sep 18 #43
pinkstarburst Sep 18 #36
MichMan Sep 18 #40
hamsterjill Sep 18 #42
Demsrule86 Sep 18 #45
Demsrule86 Sep 18 #44
pinkstarburst Sep 18 #47
LeftInTX Sep 18 #51
area51 Sep 18 #54
JI7 Sep 18 #49
Stuart G Sep 19 #56

Response to diehardblue (Original post)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 11:13 AM

1. Just like tRump.

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Response to diehardblue (Original post)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 11:16 AM

2. No one is doing anything to stop them. Pretty sure crimes were committed.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #2)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 12:31 PM

19. Pull a Desantis.

He looooooves to get up in front of cameras and say, "I took an oath to uphold the law." Of course he does this selectively, totally absent when Republican malfeasance is at play.

Charge Abbott and Desantis with something actually against the law...and DON'T apologize for it. It's the law!!

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Response to diehardblue (Original post)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 11:16 AM

3. What do you think should be done, and how?

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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #3)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 11:33 AM

9. AS the first step, every Democratic Governor in the US should

stop thinking with normalcy bias. They should promote their states to the people of Texas and Florida in such a way that it creates impediments to normal operations. Perhaps the Governor of NY could send banker box after banker box of valuable wood chipping from the beautiful NY state forests. Registered mail. Signature required. By the hundreds. On that very same day, the Governor of New Jersey could send box after box of aquatic and pond life to the very same Governor's office in Fla and Texas.

How many Democratic Governors are there? How many shipments, all requiring to be received and dealt with can be made in a single day. And then repeat at random, with no warning.

Then perhaps start enforcing some obscure laws which would be particularly noisome to Texas and Florida (see The Trenton Pickle Ordnance for possible examples).

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Response to Otto_Harper (Reply #9)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 04:27 PM

46. No no, just have MA, NY, DC, IL etc send their newly released parolees to TX, FL and AZ

And call a press conference about it saying they think they’ll have a better chance where there are more low-skilled jobs available.

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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #3)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 11:41 AM

12. Arrest THe Bus Drivers & Pilots On Trafficking

and confiscate the planes and buses. Then let's see if company owners are still willing to participate or the drivers and pilots want to risk being arrested

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Response to Me. (Reply #12)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 12:35 PM

23. That is a bad idea.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #23)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 02:40 PM

37. Have A Better One?

one that doesn't scatter people hundreds of miles from where their court asylum hearings are, some as soon as Monday?

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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #3)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 11:42 AM

13. Nope. Nope. Nope.

We’ve got to stop this. This is a deflection used frequently on DU and it serves no purpose other than to try to explain away a lack of action. It’s not up to US to figure this out.

We elect people to figure out these problems. Abbott and DeSantis are skirting the law and getting away with it. Are you saying that we don’t have ANYONE on our side in elected office who can outsmart them? Because if that’s truly the case, we are doomed.

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Response to hamsterjill (Reply #13)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 11:48 AM

17. It was a fair question. If "we" have to stop this, do we have to rely on

elected officials who, as the OP contends, aren't doing anything? What's the solution?

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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #17)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 12:32 PM

20. The solution is to find a bigger asshole.

We need someone on our side who can outsmart them, out maneuver them, and is better at pushing the limits. Because THAT is what these assholes are getting away with. They don’t play fair and they don’t play by the rules. And until “we” grasp that concept, we are going to lose every time.

Swalwell is my choice for that asshole. I like the guy. He’s got some bravado and some guts.

Who is your choice? What is your solution?

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Response to hamsterjill (Reply #20)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 12:47 PM

26. Swalwell is great but he's just one Congressman.

I wish I had a solution but I don't.

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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #26)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 01:07 PM

27. So, we are doomed.

As each Republican gets away with more and more, it’s only going to get worse. One will have top the stunt the next one pulls, and so on and so on. This is what Trump unleashed.

We cannot sit back and dot our “i’s” and cross our “t’s” and expect the jerks to wait for us to shame them into doing the right thing.

And I love the kind hearted and compassionate people on DU who think that there are going to be Republican voters who come over to our side because of the inhumanity of Abbott and DeSantis, but I just don’t believe that’s going to happen. If these voters gave a damn about anyone but themselves, they wouldn’t have voted for Trump in 2016.

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Response to hamsterjill (Reply #27)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 01:11 PM

28. I don't think we're doomed but we have a tough struggle ahead.

Many people will have to do many different things. There will not be one single, simple solution, but most of us can get involved in community organizing and voter outreach, which isn't nothing. We will need a lot of voters to overcome the suppression and gerrymandering. If we start thinking we're doomed we will be doomed and I don't accept that.

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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #28)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 01:42 PM

32. Good for you, then.

I live in Texas and that affects my perspective. We have fought for decades against the tyrants and they just keep cheating.

I sincerely hope other areas can do better.

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Response to hamsterjill (Reply #32)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 02:08 PM

34. I live in Minnesota, which also probably affects my perspective.

Overall, the state has been a bastion of good government since forever, but we still have to keep fighting off the Morlocks. There are some areas that are basically cold Alabamas.

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Response to hamsterjill (Reply #20)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 03:31 PM

41. Gavin Newsom.

I notice they are not sending busloads of immigrants to his house.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #41)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 06:50 PM

48. No bus loads, but

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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #17)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 03:08 PM

38. Honestly,

I don't think there is a mechanism for this. Our system assumes, apparently wrongly, a base level of sanity.

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Response to hamsterjill (Reply #13)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 12:36 PM

24. Your post makes no sense...what law has been broken that would allow the Feds to act?

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Response to diehardblue (Original post)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 11:17 AM

4. No one is doing anything to stop them. Pretty sure crimes were committed by them pulling this stunt

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #4)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 12:34 PM

22. What crime was committed? I can't think of one clear crime.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #22)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 01:20 PM

29. I believe the Senate is calling for an investigation,

but the federal law against kidnapping, 18 USC § 1201, doesn't seem to cover this situation.

(a)Whoever unlawfully seizes, confines, inveigles, decoys, kidnaps, abducts, or carries away and holds for ransom or reward or otherwise any person, except in the case of a minor by the parent thereof, when—

(1)the person is willfully transported in interstate or foreign commerce, regardless of whether the person was alive when transported across a State boundary, or the offender travels in interstate or foreign commerce or uses the mail or any means, facility, or instrumentality of interstate or foreign commerce in committing or in furtherance of the commission of the offense;

(2)any such act against the person is done within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States;

(3)any such act against the person is done within the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States as defined in section 46501 of title 49;

(4)the person is a foreign official, an internationally protected person, or an official guest as those terms are defined in section 1116(b) of this title; or

(5)the person is among those officers and employees described in section 1114 of this title and any such act against the person is done while the person is engaged in, or on account of, the performance of official duties,
shall be punished by imprisonment for any term of years or for life and, if the death of any person results, shall be punished by death or life imprisonment.

(b)With respect to subsection (a)(1), above, the failure to release the victim within twenty-four hours after he shall have been unlawfully seized, confined, inveigled, decoyed, kidnapped, abducted, or carried away shall create a rebuttable presumption that such person has been transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

Notwithstanding the preceding sentence, the fact that the presumption under this section has not yet taken effect does not preclude a Federal investigation of a possible violation of this section before the 24-hour period has ended.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1201

It looks like there has to be a ransom demand, which didn't happen here, unless you stretch the definition to include political advantage.

That's not to say there couldn't be other laws that were broken, but it doesn't look like kidnapping applies even though in the loose, colloquial sense, that's what it was.

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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #29)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 07:05 PM

50. Yeah, it's not kidnapping or human trafficking

However, Abbott apparently told one of his bus drivers not to communicate with NYC.
This would be a DOT of violation of some sort.

Then, there is "Perla" who ran around San Antonio offering flights and money to people.

Apparently there are lots of "Perlas" out there, but they usually show up at the Greyhound Station downtown San Antonio, meeting arriving asylum seekers who have been released from ICE Detention and setting them up with "work"....(I learned about this yesterday)
The "work" is illegal.....

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #22)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 01:23 PM

30. There are a number of possible crimes

Kidnapping - they were fraudulently convinced to board a plane that didn't go where promised. That clears the definition for kidnapping.

Civil rights crimes - these people were targeted because of their ethnicity and country of origin.

Forgery/false documents - they were given fraudulent immigration papers.

Fraud - they were deceived in manner that caused them harm.

Racketeering - multiple people coordinated to commit these crimes.

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Response to tinrobot (Reply #30)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 01:57 PM

33. +1,

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Response to tinrobot (Reply #30)

Mon Sep 19, 2022, 06:26 PM

55. 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻

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Response to diehardblue (Original post)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 11:22 AM

5. If our government had a better plan for these people. Of course I don't

But there have to be people with the organizational skills to make an awful situation better.
Wishful thinking.

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Response to diehardblue (Original post)


Response to diehardblue (Original post)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 11:27 AM

7. Not a lawyer or part of the govt., but...

seems to me Joe could send federal agents to every airfield and bus stop in Florida and Texas and stop these reverse "freedom" rides.
I can't imagine that the Governors have the right to initiate this on their own in contravention to national policy set by the federal government.

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Response to FalloutShelter (Reply #7)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 12:37 PM

25. That is not possible...

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Response to diehardblue (Original post)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 11:28 AM

8. Their stunts are not having the effect they want..so I doubt they will continue.

No, what they are doing isn’t right

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Response to PortTack (Reply #8)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 11:41 AM

11. Yes, I think they will stop. Sometimes political and social pressure

works faster and more effectively than the legal system. What they're doing is probably illegal, and if there's a legal remedy I hope it's used, but in any event the stunt is starting to backfire. The MAGAts love it, of course, but decent people find it appalling and cruel. In the meantime the migrants are getting better treatment than they would have received in TX or FL.

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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #11)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 02:09 PM

35. ☝️☝️☝️☝️

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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #11)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 07:25 PM

52. I hope. From what I've seen on twitter, I don't get that impression

Dylan is the Mass State Sen (I think he's state senator) of Martha Vineyard.


?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1570205804720001026%7Ctwgr%5Ec6368d507631d87b7f451f0c0c82c4b40e71c9d9%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsweek.com%2Fted-cruz-tweets-list-places-migrants-should-sent-next-1743818

The comments are not good. He got like two or three supporting comments and then it backfired











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Response to PortTack (Reply #8)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 07:27 PM

53. Are you sure?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=17170628


?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1570205804720001026%7Ctwgr%5Ec6368d507631d87b7f451f0c0c82c4b40e71c9d9%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsweek.com%2Fted-cruz-tweets-list-places-migrants-should-sent-next-1743818

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Response to diehardblue (Original post)


Response to Name removed (Reply #10)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 11:43 AM

14. Probably not. We have a legal system that depends at least in part

on the participants acting in good faith. And now a lot of political leaders are not acting in good faith and the system isn't prepared for it.

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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #14)


Response to Ocelot II (Reply #14)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 03:11 PM

39. Yep, This

That is what I find so scary about our interesting times.

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Response to diehardblue (Original post)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 11:47 AM

16. They head the governments of their states. Would you REALLY want

tRump to have been able to just "stop" the governors who opposed his persecution of immigrants in their states? Can the talk, force obedience?

We need to be very careful what we call for. THIS is precisely what tRump, DeSantis, Abbott, et al and their authoritarian mob want.

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Response to diehardblue (Original post)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 11:57 AM

18. Isn't the White House having a meeting about this today?

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Response to diehardblue (Original post)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 12:33 PM

21. And what would you suggest exactly?

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #21)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 01:26 PM

31. Looking at all your replies in this thread...

You tell everybody that it's a bad idea or it can't be done, yet you suggest nothing yourself. And what is it you think should be done?

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Response to luv2fly (Reply #31)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 04:23 PM

43. I have no suggestions. I don't know what the Feds can do. I really don't. But I do know the GOP

are to blame so lets no point fingers at a Democratic administation.

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Response to diehardblue (Original post)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 02:36 PM

36. We need to have a broader discussion

about immigration and the burden that southern border states carry. Desantis and Abbott are wrong for treating human beings as props. However the mayors of DC, Chicago and New York are equally ridiculous for throwing a NIMBY fit when a couple of busloads of migrants show up on their doorstep.

Do they really not realize the number of migrants Texas RGV towns see released on their doorstep every day? If Biden wanted to win Hispanic votes in the RGV, the biggest thing he could do would be to address immigration and make it a burden we carry nationally, not something that is dumped on a few regions.

If we are all in agreement that these people need support and compassion, which should be the goal, then we need to spread the burden for caring and supporting the huge number of migrants that has surged over the border in recent months/years away from the southern border states, so that every state is expected to contribute.

So that would mean that rather than being appalled that migrants are being bussed, the federal government should be paying for busses so that there are multiple charter busses available every day. When migrants are released they should have choices. Would you like to go to (offer five major cities.) The next day, five different major cities are available. Rotate between 50 cities. But if you are against them being dumped in Martha's Vineyard, you should be against them being dumped in an equally small town in south Texas with zero resources. Because that's what happens right now and it happens day after day it's just that the rest of the country was able to easily ignore it until the bussing started and the mayors of DC, Chicago and New York started screaming NIMBY. If they don't even want to deal with a tiny piece of the problem, can you imagine how exhausted Texas, California, Arizona and New Mexico are having to deal with it every day?

This needs a federal solution. And it needs to involve serious relief and help for the border states.

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Response to pinkstarburst (Reply #36)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 03:29 PM

40. Martha's Vinyard said it was a humanitarian crisis

For 50 people..... and then transported them somewhere else as fast as they could.

I'm guessing some border towns get 50 per hour at times

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Response to pinkstarburst (Reply #36)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 04:20 PM

42. Best post I've read all day.

See my post from earlier this week (with subsequent replies) when Vice President Harris stated that the border is secure. It is not.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=17148379

I do not condone what Abbott and DeSantis are doing. Certainly not. But we definitely need to be having more of a dialogue on border issues.

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Response to hamsterjill (Reply #42)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 04:26 PM

45. No we don't. The reason the border is an issue is because the GOP won't agree to anything in

regards to the border in Congress and with a 50 50 majority...we can't do it without more Senators. That is just a fact. And I would not ever agree with Republicans. The border is secure. They simply don't wish to follow existing rules in place.

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Response to pinkstarburst (Reply #36)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 04:24 PM

44. There is no federal solution that I can see. And nothing can happen in a 50 50 Senate.

Hopefully, it backfires on the two asshat governors.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #44)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 05:13 PM

47. So far it's not backfiring

Politics are local.

https://www.kxan.com/state-of-texas/state-of-texas-migrant-busing-among-hot-button-issues-driving-voters-in-new-texas-poll/

52% of Texans polled support migrant bussing. 35% oppose it.

I think people who are not from a border state do not understand the burden border states have been carrying for years. Martha's Vineyard called it a "humanitarian crisis" when 50 people showed up and got rid of them within 24 hours. And yet they were lauded as being so wonderful and welcoming.

Texas has thousands of migrants released within its borders daily. One of the things I remembered reading about the Uvalde shooting was that there had been something like 47 "secure in place" alerts during the months between Feb-May 2022 at Robb because of migrants near the school having to be picked up by CBP. Now you can criticize law enforcement, and that's probably best a subject for a different thread, but the point is, an elementary school in Uvalde had to deal with 47 of those alerts in the three months leading up to the shooting. How many times did an elementary school in Martha's Vineyard have to deal with their school day being constantly impacted because of migrant border crossings?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/07/19/texas-border-control-tactics-uvalde-school-shooting/10093512002/

I think we all need to support these people who are trying to come here in search of a better life. But right now 1) the border is not secure 2) the burden of dealing with the high number of people who are crossing the border is falling on just a few states. We need a national conversation about immigration and in the meantime, rather than call the governors of southern states names or have NYC, Chicago and DC mayors scream NIMBY, all major cities should be stepping up to receive migrants. There should be busses lined up everywhere they are released, with multiple destinations to choose from so they can go wherever in the country they'd like to start their lives while they wait for their immigration hearings. It shouldn't just be Texas's burden to bear.

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Response to pinkstarburst (Reply #36)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 07:12 PM

51. Yes...The mayors of DC, Chicago, NY etc, should just say;

"We got this"...

Abbott is doing this to get a reaction and "owning the libs". They are laughing and mocking the reactions of Democratic cities.

I know the cities need resources to deal with the immigrants. That's a fact, but they can arrange the resources quietly or they can arrange them with "a show"...
I think they need to this quietly.

It is not illegal to send migrants to another city.

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Response to pinkstarburst (Reply #36)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 07:36 PM

54. +1 n/t

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Response to diehardblue (Original post)

Sun Sep 18, 2022, 06:53 PM

49. It has to be Voters who stop them

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Response to diehardblue (Original post)

Mon Sep 19, 2022, 07:34 PM

56. The government is not ..."helpless." Sometimes fanatics are difficult to stop. And it will be done

when the time is right.

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