He has committed TRE45ON

[Iwasthere]

Proof will certainly be revealed. Our justice system must hold him accountable. The bribe money and death threats will only keep him afloat for so long. This AG cannot be bought imo...

18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

[kelly1mm]

1. Treason requires an act of war to be declared, meaning there can be no prosecutions for treason

without congress first declaring war (assuming you are referring to the 'aid and comfort' clause).

[mzmolly]

4. Attempting a coup, fits.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

[kelly1mm]

9. If you can show me a picture of President Trump attacking the capital I will concede your point.

If not, then no, this is not treason as defined by US law.

[mzmolly]

28. By that measure, no leader who gives an illegal order

would be guilty of war crimes.

If I can show you collusion with the proud boys and others, to attack the capital - that should suffice.

[kelly1mm]

31. Possibly if there is direct collusion and assuming the attack on the capital rises to the level of

waging war upon the US.

[mzmolly]

35. It certainly

does.

[BidenRocks]

12. Correct me if I'm wrong

The last declared war was WWII.
What will America look like under a dictatorship?
They want it now, but.......

[kelly1mm]

13. That is correct. That is why even the Rosenburgs were convicted of espionage, not treason. NT

[Hermit-The-Prog]

34. I've seen that claim but nothing to support it.

[Fiendish Thingy]

2. Oh brother...sorry to disappoint you...

But Trump has not committed, nor will he be charged with, the crime of Treason.

“Enemies” is a narrowly defined term, referring only to countries the US has declared war on.

The Rosenbergs, who gave nuclear secrets to Russia, weren’t charged with treason, they were charged with espionage.

Espionage and seditious conspiracy are the two most serious charges Trump is possibly at risk of being charged with.

[Iwasthere]

5. Okay, try for treason (coup) then settle for Espionage

[Fiendish Thingy]

15. If he was indicted for Treason, there would be no trial

As the charge would be dismissed.

Justice doesn’t work that way; DOJ charges crimes they can convict.

[mzmolly]

6. Domestic

Last edited Sun Aug 21, 2022, 09:54 PM - Edit history (1)

enemies. Anyone trying to overthrow democracy, should fit the definition.

[kelly1mm]

10. Maybe it should but it currently does not. nt

[mzmolly]

29. I'm not sure

I agree. https://www.businessinsider.com/ex-prosecutor-trump-treason-instigating-capitol-riot-2022-8

[kelly1mm]

30. I am. nt

[Mariana]

3. Since the United States is not at war, we have no enemies.

Therefore, nothing in that applies to him. Espionage, on the other hand...

[Iwasthere]

7. Oh, we've got enemies (within AND without)

[kelly1mm]

11. 'enemies' in this context is defined as those the US congress has declared war on. nt

[Mariana]

20. And as soon as Congress declares war upon them

we can think about charging people with treason for helping them.

[Kid Berwyn]

8. MF45 leads a criminal insurrection that includes Domestic Terrorists.

Seeing how they have declared war on the United States of America, they are traitors.

[kelly1mm]

14. Where can I read this declaration of war and President Trump's direct involvement

in that? I would LOVE to find such evidence .....

[dpibel]

16. The disjunctive

Last edited Sun Aug 21, 2022, 08:51 PM - Edit history (1)

I think you're overlooking it.

"Levies war against or..."

I don't think anyone will get far arguing that Jan 6 was levying war.

But your belief that treason as defined requires a declaration of war by the United States does not square with the plain language of the statute.

Just by way of example: The Confederates who fired on Fort Sumter committed treason the instant they did so. There was, at that time, no declaration of war on the part of the United States.

[triron]

22. Agreed. I've encountered this before with some DUers.

But it clearly doesn't require a declared war. See Glenn kirschners video below. 9

[kelly1mm]

23. The post I responded to stated "Seeing how they have declared war on the United States of America"

I was simply asking for a link to that declaration .....

[dpibel]

24. Fair enough

But the statute does not require a declaration, does it?

The statute requires levying war, not declaring it.

Else it would be a cool loophole for traitors, no? "Sure, I massed an army and attacked US positions. But we never declared war!"

[kelly1mm]

25. correct but then we have to get into the weeds on 'levying war' It is debatable if 1/6 was

levying war and even more debatable if President Trump was directly involved in it (for sure he was not an active participant).

[dpibel]

27. Is there an echo in here?

Me, post 16:

"I don't think anyone will get far arguing that Jan 6 was levying war."

My point is that you, and many others, seem to focus in on the enemy portion of the statute and ignore the levying war.

Carry on with whatever it is you're trying to teach the lesser mortals.

[Joinfortmill]

17. Agree

[moonshinegnomie]

18. treason no. sedition yes.

[RobertDevereaux]

19. Here's Glenn Kirschner on TFG and the crime of treason...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217032837

[scipan]

36. This is good

1. Assembled an armed mob
2. To overthrow the government
And/or
3. (Paraphrased) to stop laws from being executed

= Treason

[Delarage]

21. GREAT bumper sticker idea n/t

[GuppyGal]

32. Sedition and espionage

indeed

[LetMyPeopleVote]

33. For this thread

Link to tweet