Is the breakup of the United States imminent?

[Vince843]

http://aianattackthesystem.wordpress.com/2011/09/13/is-the-break-up-of-the-united-states-imminent/

Footnote: Although the blog owner's name is "Vince," this is purely a coincidence. My name is actual name is Vicente, but people call me Vince for short. I am not of Native American descent.

[chrisa]

1. Nopes

[i_sometimes]

2. Ecotopia FTW!

Though having anything to do with Cali...I dunno.....

[napoleon_in_rags]

8. Yeah, whoever situated LA in "ecotopia" made a mistake.

But there is some sense in the unity between west WA and west OR. If they redrew state lines so they were one state and east OR and east WA were one state, things would make more sense ecologically and culturally.

[Posteritatis]

3. No. That said, Garreau's book is incredibly interesting and I wholeheartedly recommend it. (nt)

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. No and yes

and not along those lines... but depends on how the US reacts to the loss of Imperial role

http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/08/01/when_did_the_american_empire_start_to_decline

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/09/15/introducing_decline_watch

I could post more. Realize Foreign Policy is aimed at the elite of the elite and the foreign service.

And if you really want to know WHY... more than that book, yes it is in my shelfs, read Paul Kennedy's Rise and Fall of the Great Powers.

[Edweird]

5. No. We already tried that....

[Jamastiene]

6. No, we all enjoy sulking with each other and trading barbs with each other too much.

Besides, we already tried it once. So, now, it is settled; we stay together, eyeball each other nastily, sulk a lot, and tell each other to go to Hell routinely. Every once in a while, though, we make up and try to get along. That never lasts long, but the make-up sex is phenomenal.

[MichaelMcGuire]

12. LOL

"but the make-up sex is phenomenal."

[grantcart]

7. Yes in Geological Terms

I would expect that the US would be transmogrified outside of its present structure somewhere within the next 50,000 years.


But I suspect you were thinking more in terms of in the next 15 minutes or so.

[sabbat hunter]

9. No n/t

[Ter]

10. It would be the best thing that ever happened to us

Split into six countries. One liberal, one conservative, one libertarian, one moderate, one far-left and one far-right. We can be friendly and trade with each other, and end all of this division once and for all.

[hang a left]

11. Actually, I think we could do this with just...

Three divisions:

Liberals and Über-liberals, we all live on the west-coast

Conservatives, and basically all the other up-tight individuals, well they can live on the east coast.

Religious fanatics and anarchists, they get the southern states, any one of those states they want.

Done.

[PFunk]

13. Yes. But not along those lines. More along Blue/Red lines.

All you have to do is take a look at our current socility and make a pretty good case we've already their. The things that unite us are getting less and less while that that divides us are getting greater. With one side (primary the right) isn't interested in working with the other and the purple area's getting smaller as more choose one side or the other.

We're not there yet officially. But unless something happens to unite us (which is unlikely-but possible) I say that day is coming within our lifetime.

[Prism]

14. What one wishes is not what will be

The U.S. has endured far worse, far more divisive upheavals and survived. What we see as dramatic cultural divisions between regions are mere partisan entertainment when compared to the kinds of economic and cultural divisions that have plagued the union of states in the past. It's a temptation to see one's own contemporary straits as the most dire and alarming when compared to all that has come before. It's an ego thing.

But we're pretty ok. We have nowhere near the crises as the Great Depression or the Civil War. Nowhere close.

We're about to see the shake out of a depression. Not the Great Depression, but a depression nonetheless. There will be a shift in the political paradigm on account as there invariably is.

But a dissolution of the Union? Nowhere close. Not even of the t-ball variety.

[Warren DeMontague]

15. Highly doubtful.

Nevertheless, due to seriously divergent cultural viewpoints which seem to be increasingly tied to geographical location and self-reenforcing, not to mention several fundamentally unfair representational biases built into the structure of the US Government (starting with each state controlling 1/50th of the US Senate regardless of population) I think it might be a beneficial move in many ways, theoretically at least. Of course, I'd rather see The United States as a whole live up to the ideals enshrined in the bill of rights and the constitution, I think the potential for this country as a whole is simply phenomenal. When we put our minds to it, together, we can do anything. I believe.

[pampango]

16. Could each new nation put tariffs on the others so we could all be rich? Or would we be a

"free trade" zone like the EU with all the problems that Europeans have to endure?

I'll tell you that Ohio is just itching to put tariffs on stuff from Michigan, Indiana, Kentucky, West Virginia and Pennsylvania. Of course some of those states may end up in Ohio's "new nation" but perhaps it will eventually break up too.

[Meeker Morgan]

17. It will never happen peacefully. n/t

[chrisa]

21. Unfortunately, you're correct.

I accidentally bumped this, though. I didn't realize it was from yesterday.

Derp.

[Prophet 451]

18. Doubtful but maybe better if it was

Honestly, the regressive forces (the GOP and the larger Right) are concentrated in the South, their voting power is concentrated in the South so the USA would probably be better off if the country split. Allow open immigration from the South to the North for a while so all the liberals currently suffering in Texas and the like could get out of there and then you have two countries: The Southern American Theocracy that can get on with teaching creationism and whipping poor people as they intend and the Northern states that can get back to having sensible policies now they don't have to drag the yahoos along.

[onenote]

19. Absent forced relocation how would this work?

Last edited Sun Jan 15, 2012, 11:34 AM - Edit history (1)

There are lots of conservatives in "blue" states and lots of progressives in "red" states. There are conservative, republican districts in California and New York, and progressive Democrats in states like Texas and Georgia and Mississippi.

On a statewide level, there are many states that have a combination of republican and democratic statewide officials (senators, governor, lt. governor) and/or sometimes vote statewide for a Democrat and sometimes for a republican in presidential elections.

[Prophet 451]

24. Well, I was presuming free movement between the two

When you put it like that, it probably wouldn't work in reality. It's just a nice idea to entertain when the entire country is held back by the regressives.

[Charlemagne]

22. not with this map

Ohio alone is like 4 different states. They would all probably go their separate ways. Im sure you can think of similar instances in your home state.

[SidDithers]

23. That looks like the break up of North America to me...

You do realize that there are other countries in North America than just the United States, don't you?

Sid

[Skip Intro]

25. No.

[divide_and_rule]

26. excellent topic, let us hope so

the best nations in the world are small and western. The USA could make a move in that direction via only one avenue--breakup of the union,

[Ellipsis]

27. ...break out the mayo.

[gkhouston]

28. The OP has left the building. n/t

[Selatius]

29. If you define imminent to mean several decades to over a century, the answer MAY be yes.

A lot of factors go into the break-up of superpowers. Financial concerns, economic issues, and cultural/ethnic differences are the big ones. I think the break-up is inevitable, but I'm taking the long view of things, over the course of many decades and centuries. The US has been around for over two centuries. The Early and Late Roman Republic lasted two centuries apiece, roughly. Then came imperial rule and then the collapse into darkness.

If the US can dissolve much in the same way the Soviet Union did, all the better. Nobody wants North America to look like Yugoslavia splintering apart.

[LanternWaste]

30. There are too few regional and cultural differences to allow a break-up vis-a-vis

There are too few regional and cultural differences to allow a break-up vis-a-vis any existing geographical line, our major divisive issues being the wholly imaginary-- religion, politics and philosophies.

Outside of forced immigration/emigration, it disallows any practice means of achieving it (Pakistan/India didn't work out so well as people had hoped-- no reason to believe a that forcibly moving a well-established family in Jersey to Alabama would work any better-- the ultimate Nanny-State practice, yes?).

I imagine that as disappointing as it may be to many dystopians wearing the appropriately cynical t-shirt, it would be more practical, more efficient, and more effective to our society as a whole to simply learn how to get along with our neighbors.

And to be honest, being neighborly is simply not as hard as a lot of people make it out to be.

[divide_and_rule]

31. here is how the breakup will happen

A majority of voters have been quite hostile to the federal govt and believe it is undemocratic, and rightfully so.

So they vote into office congresspeople who will cut the federal budget and taxes deeply. Agreements between the fed govt and the states arise so that the states raise taxes to take over the responsibilities of the fed govt (SS, medicare etc). Over time, the states take over more of the tax revenue and duties of the fed govt.

At some point the fed govt has no money and therefore no power.

A defacto secession of all states has been accomplished.

[Pachamama]

34. County of Jefferson

Welcome to DU!

[lumberjack_jeff]

32. I won't be conscripted to prevent Texas from leaving.

Ain't happening. I'll wave goodbye and wish them well, provided they give us back all our nuclear weapons first.

[Pachamama]

33. I think the "Empty Quarter" covers more of this country sadly....

....especially when you see and hear some of the things coming out of the mouths of the crazy radical right in this country and broadcast on Fox News....

[Odin2005]

35. A book I think Everyone should read: "American Nations"

http://www.colinwoodard.com/americannations

[WilliamPitt]

36. No