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This message was self-deleted by its author (WarGamer) on Mon Aug 8, 2022, 10:02 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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Reply This message was self-deleted by its author (Original post)
WarGamer Tuesday OP
Amishman Tuesday #1
WarGamer Tuesday #3
Amishman Tuesday #9
Calculating Tuesday #63
Irish_Dem Tuesday #25
MarineCombatEngineer Tuesday #36
Irish_Dem Tuesday #49
Amishman Tuesday #42
blm Tuesday #2
WarGamer Tuesday #4
blm Tuesday #8
Irish_Dem Tuesday #26
Hekate Tuesday #5
WarGamer Tuesday #6
Irish_Dem Tuesday #28
MerryHolidays Tuesday #7
WarGamer Tuesday #10
MerryHolidays Tuesday #11
WarGamer Tuesday #14
MarineCombatEngineer Tuesday #19
gab13by13 Tuesday #12
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WarGamer Tuesday #15
BootinUp Tuesday #17
MerryHolidays Tuesday #18
WarGamer Tuesday #23
MerryHolidays Tuesday #27
maxrandb Tuesday #60
WarGamer Tuesday #61
MarineCombatEngineer Tuesday #64
maxrandb Tuesday #65
Calculating Tuesday #67
MarineCombatEngineer Tuesday #62
Irish_Dem Tuesday #30
MerryHolidays Tuesday #34
enid602 Tuesday #16
MarineCombatEngineer Tuesday #20
enid602 Tuesday #47
MarineCombatEngineer Tuesday #52
MerryHolidays Tuesday #21
Irish_Dem Tuesday #22
WarGamer Tuesday #24
MerryHolidays Tuesday #32
duckworth969 Tuesday #71
roamer65 Tuesday #29
WarGamer Tuesday #31
roamer65 Tuesday #33
WarGamer Tuesday #35
Irish_Dem Tuesday #39
MerryHolidays Tuesday #56
Calculating Tuesday #69
Irish_Dem Tuesday #38
MarineCombatEngineer Tuesday #43
Irish_Dem Tuesday #59
Calculating Tuesday #70
Celerity Tuesday #73
Irish_Dem Tuesday #37
MerryHolidays Tuesday #40
Irish_Dem Tuesday #44
MerryHolidays Tuesday #48
WarGamer Tuesday #51
MerryHolidays Tuesday #54
MarineCombatEngineer Tuesday #55
dpibel Tuesday #68
MarineCombatEngineer Tuesday #72
Irish_Dem Tuesday #57
MerryHolidays Tuesday #58
MarineCombatEngineer Tuesday #74
WarGamer Tuesday #46
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bluestarone Tuesday #66
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cachukis Wednesday #75

Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 06:59 PM

1. Taiwan's Yun Feng missiles can reach Three Gorges

catastrophic failure of that dam would cause destruction in excess of a nuclear strike.

Given how much of China's tech is derived from Russian designs, I would not be too comfortable with the ability to intercept if I was China.

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Response to Amishman (Reply #1)


Response to WarGamer (Reply #3)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:09 PM

9. The point is the two are closer to mutually assured destruction than it appears

Taiwan is far better prepared and equipped than Ukraine

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #3)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 08:38 PM

63. Taiwan could possibly have secret nukes themselves

They certainly have the tech capability

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Response to Amishman (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:35 PM

25. In a quick strike China could wipe out all Taiwan military capability.

Strike all Taiwan military bases, bomb them back to the stone age.
Assassinate all military and civilian leaders.
Cut all military and civilian communication lines.

Taiwan is a small island, near the China mainland. None of the above should be difficult.

China has a population of a billion and a half people.
Their leaders probably don't care if millions of their people are killed.

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #25)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:40 PM

36. Reminds me of a couple of stories I heard while on active duty

Russia and China went to war against each other,
on the first day, the Russians captured 1 million Chinese soldiers,
on the second day, they captured 2 million more,
on the 3rd day, they captured 4 million more,
on the 4th day, the Russian Army surrendered.

Another story I heard was that Russia threatened to nuke China and kill 500 million Chinese, the Chinese leader said, go ahead, we have another 500+ million more.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #36)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 08:03 PM

49. Great stories.

Exactly.

China has a billion and a half people.

It has two million active duty military.

One million reservists.

And 200 million male civilians fit for active duty and ready to be drafted.

I don't think they will draft women. Because of their previous one child policy which favored male infants, there is now a bride shortage. The men have been outraged so the Chinese govt is importing
and trafficking brides from North Korea, Thailand and Cambodia.

Pure bloodlines are important in China so they are not going to start drafting and killing Chinese women.

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #25)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:53 PM

42. Which is why Taiwan has been building deep tunnel complexes for years

Including ones capable of handling aircraft.

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:02 PM

2. The way US media spin works, the blame will be entirely on Pelosi.

As if she somehow set a war plan in motion. The RussianToday left will definitely blame her and all Democrats.

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Response to blm (Reply #2)


Response to WarGamer (Reply #4)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:08 PM

8. Of course it has, but US media has its jump off event

and the casual news audience will only hear of Pelosi taunting China. Sad to say.

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Response to blm (Reply #2)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:36 PM

26. Believe me, if China invades Taiwan, the MAGAT spin on Pelosi is the least of our problems.

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:04 PM

5. If this is such a "new" crisis, why have Chinese jets been buzzing Taiwan aggressively for months?

Somehow that never gets mentioned in current commentary.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #5)


Response to Hekate (Reply #5)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:36 PM

28. It is certainly not a new crisis, we are just talking about timing.

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:07 PM

7. Why would China risk nuclear annihilation of the world over the Speaker's visit. Much ado...

ABOUT NOTHING. I am 100% there is a huge amount of diplomacy going on behind the scenes that none of us are aware of.

This was brilliantly orchestrated by President Biden/Speaker Pelosi to tell China to go to hell. China is NOT going to invade Taiwan over this.

China will lose ALL US and EU trade by doing this. Russia did not have the same issue. China is no fool.

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Response to MerryHolidays (Reply #7)


Response to WarGamer (Reply #10)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:14 PM

11. Do you really think China will want global sanctions?

So that its only trading partner is Russia? Right.

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Response to MerryHolidays (Reply #11)


Response to WarGamer (Reply #14)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:27 PM

19. That they do.

China thinks in terms of decades and centuries, whereas, the US thinks in terms of weeks and months, this is why I'm not overly worried about China attacking Taiwan, they think that if they wait long enough, the US will implode, removing any obstacle to taking Taiwan.

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #10)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:18 PM

12. Maybe that's why Speaker Pelosi went?

Maybe she had intelligence that China was about to invade and she made the trip to show our support?

Speaker Pelosi must have had a good reason, it wasn't a photo-op.

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Response to gab13by13 (Reply #12)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:21 PM

13. There is more in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in our philosophy

To paraphrase from Hamlet.

I think you're spot on. None of us really know what's going on, but I have NO issues if the Chinese are "enraged." They, as well as Russia, need to know that you can't invade without consequences.

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Response to gab13by13 (Reply #12)


Response to gab13by13 (Reply #12)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:26 PM

17. Pelosi wrote an Op-Ed about why she went

Here is some of it. It was published by washingtonpost today, probably need a subscription to read it all.

Pelosi says in op-ed that Taipei visit is ‘unequivocal statement that America stands with Taiwan’

Gustaf Kilander
Tue, August 2, 2022 at 8:42 AM·1 min read

As House Speaker Nancy Pelosi landed in Taipei, Taiwan for a visit that’s been heavily criticized by the Chinese Communist Party, The Washington Post published an op-ed by Ms Pelosi in which she says that the “visit should be seen as an unequivocal statement that America stands with Taiwan, our democratic partner, as it defends itself and its freedom”.

Ms Pelosi begins the opinion piece by noting that the Taiwan Relations act was passed 43 years ago, calling it “one of the most important pillars of US foreign policy in the Asia Pacific”.

The speaker writes that the legislation “set out America’s commitment to a democratic Taiwan, providing the framework for an economic and diplomatic relationship that would quickly flourish into a key partnership”.

snip

She also notes that the Act states that the US will “consider any effort to determine the future of Taiwan by other than peaceful means … a threat to the peace and security of the Western Pacific area and of grave concern to the United States”.

https://news.yahoo.com/pelosi-says-op-ed-taipei-154211968.html

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #10)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:27 PM

18. How exactly is China going to keep its affluence up without its trading partners?

There is no doubt in my mind that President Biden/Speaker Pelosi know much more than any of us.

China's invasion of Taiwan would make no sense. Knowing there is US opposition to any such move lessens the chance of its happening.

Can you imagine the bitter pain that 1.4 billion people will feel in China knowing that no one will buy their goods/services, as they have been doing for decades.

I hope I am right and that you're wrong. If not, it's been great knowing you, and perhaps our ashes will meet again somewhere in the universe.

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Response to MerryHolidays (Reply #18)


Response to WarGamer (Reply #23)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:36 PM

27. Remember that the one thing that has bought the Chinese time is affluence

I will never forget June 1989, when the world was certain that communism was failing around the world. Not just in Europe, but in China as well.

China has been able to buy off its people because of its smart move in the 1970s to open up and serve as world's manufacturing depot. They are not going to risk that over Taiwan.

If they do...well, it's been nice knowing you!

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #10)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 08:28 PM

60. Could you imagine no one left alive in Beijing if China sinks a US Aircraft Carrier?

Because their military is about a hollow as Russia's.

If they harm one single hair on a US Sailors head they are finished.

They know it.

We know it.

They know that we know it.

It would be terrible, and no one would want it, but just like in WWII, this war would be decided the minute the United States military starts fighting it. Might take a while, but the outcome of such hostilities is not in doubt.

No one. Not the Russians, not the Chinese, not Saudi Arabia, not Turkey, not even any NATO country could match American lethality, logistics, or technology.

If the United States needed to, we could turn the entire air space over China into a "no-fly zone" within 24 hours.

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Response to maxrandb (Reply #60)


Response to WarGamer (Reply #61)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 08:41 PM

64. I think you're correct,

if China did take out a US Carrier, then we would probably respond by taking out their Carrier in kind in a tit for tat exchange and hopefully cooler heads would prevail and stop before it escalated beyond control

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #61)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 08:42 PM

65. The sinking of a carrier is an act of war

And before folks start saying, "well, what about Vietnam, or Korea, or Iraq or Afghanistan". Those were not all out wars like WWI or WWII. They were mostly acts of war in the hope of doing just enough to send a message.

A true war with China or Russia would require the kind of commitment, sacrifice and "all hands on deck" approach if a world war to bring the full might of US power to bare.

But make no mistake. Once that commitment and sacrifice begins the outcome of them war is not in question.

Do we have that same commitment and desire to fight for freedom and Democracy and against fascism, authoritarianism that our grandfathers did?

I guess time will tell.

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Response to maxrandb (Reply #65)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 08:53 PM

67. We wouldn't nuke them over a carrier

With that said, a full conventional war in the south sea would definitely be on. I'd expect heavy losses from both sides ultimately ending in stalemate. Imo a war between the US and China "probably" wouldn't go nuclear as long as neither homeland was in danger of getting overtaken, and that's not happening with US vs China. They can't really get us over here, and we sure couldn't take over China.

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Response to maxrandb (Reply #60)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 08:38 PM

62. Plus, no other country in the world has the combat experience the US Military has,

still though, it would be a fight to the death, which might mean the death of all living creatures, including the human race, it's a fight no one would win.

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Response to MerryHolidays (Reply #7)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:38 PM

30. This has nothing to do with Pelosi's visit.

The Chinese are just making good propaganda.

But they will invade Taiwan at some point.
The question is when and how.

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #30)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:39 PM

34. I disagree. Please see my response to your other post. nt

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:26 PM

16. Chinese

I think the Chinese are waiting for Russian forces to be depleted (especially after Georgia, Belarus and Chechnya join the Ukrainians), and then take over eastern and Siberian Russia. All those natural resources.

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Response to enid602 (Reply #16)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:29 PM

20. I think you're right,

despite the so called cozy relationship, the Russians have to be nervously looking over their shoulders at China.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #20)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:59 PM

47. Brest Litovsk

Stalin was a good bud of Hitler’s until he wasn’t.

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Response to enid602 (Reply #47)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 08:07 PM

52. Exactly!!!!

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Response to enid602 (Reply #16)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:29 PM

21. Great. So now we are down to one major enemy at the cost of massive nuclear war? nt

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:30 PM

22. Amazing. I have been having a lot of thoughts on this topic as well in past few days.

I guarantee you that if we can think about this independently from each other, US and Chinese military intelligence are also having the same conversations with their respective leaders.

1. China is not Russia. The Chinese are smart, well organized and have a huge military with advanced technology the US does not yet posses. They have been practicing and planning a Taiwan invasion for some time. And if done right, they might do it in short period of time before the US even knows what it wants to do. All you have to do is look at the military numbers on paper which you are showing in your graphs.

2. China will get Taiwan, the question is when. Now is a good time. The US has sent vast sums of money and weapons to Ukraine. The American public may not be in the mood for two war fronts.

3. China has made a big stink about Pelosi as a way to possibly gin up war sentiment with the Chinese people and her allies.

4. The US backed down and showed fear when Putin threatened us with Nukes. The Chinese certainly saw this and took note. Putin has us over a barrel and the Chinese will do the same thing.

5. China will be a 21st century superpower and it must exert total regional control as a stepping stone.
It has to make a dramatic statement in the East, just like Putin did in the West.

6. China is partnering with Russia to change the world order. Global power is going to shift in a dramatic fashion in the next decade. Engaging the US in the East will help Putin, that is certain.

7. I could argue that China was going to invade Taiwan at about the same time as Putin invaded Ukraine. Everything was in place. But China was thrown off its stride by how Putin bungled the early days of the invasion, and the West's support, so China held off. Took a wait and see attitude. Only delayed its plans to invade Taiwan, not cancelled them.

On the negative side, while China has a huge military presences, big military budget, largest standing army in the world, etc., it is not tested in wartime. So success in starting a major confrontation with the US is not certain by any means.

The US imposing economic sanctions on Russia obviously rattled China a great deal. They have had a number of internal financial setbacks in the past couple of years. They are also covertly propping up Russia financially. They have had their financial advisors determine to the penny how badly US sanctions would hurt them. But they can certainly play money hard ball with the US in retaliation as well.

It is a gamble for China. But the odds are in their favor. And they are going to have to do it sooner or later. Why not now.

If China can take control of Taiwan quickly before the US even knows what is happening, and has hard ball financial retaliation plans in response to US sanctions, I think they could pull it off.

Once China and Russia have achieved their regional goals, they go to step two.

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #22)


Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #22)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:39 PM

32. ???? Is Step 2 to have no trading partners for Russia and China except each other?

Please let us know what precise purpose is served?

You do understand the financial dynamics for Russia and China are totally different?

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #22)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 10:10 PM

71. too many long and big-talking paragraphs...

but I don’t buy into it.

After reading, “…with advanced technology the US does not yet possess”, I rolled my eyes and scanned the rest.

Big Bad China…

The only thing they have more of is people, and they’re more than willing to supply millions of them as cannon fodder.

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:37 PM

29. It would be a BIG mistake by Beijing.

Their worst nightmare would come true. A remilitarized and nuclear Japan with the EU and US at their side.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #29)


Response to WarGamer (Reply #31)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:39 PM

33. That would be WW3.

Which is where we are heading anyway.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #33)


Response to roamer65 (Reply #33)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:51 PM

39. Putin's invasion of Ukraine did not start WWIII.

And China's invasion of Taiwan won't start a major war either.

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #39)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 08:19 PM

56. Do you seriously contend that we are not in a world war without the US involvement in UKR?

It is ONLY because of President Biden's very brilliant strategy with UKR that we are not formally in a WW. China's alleged invasion of Taiwan would make it a true WW.

But PLEASE ask yourself this basic question: precisely what does China have to gain? If they invade Taiwan, we are surely in WW III. Do you really think China or any country wants that?

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #39)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 09:35 PM

69. Actually it's much more likely to

Taiwan supplies the whole world with high tech chips. We literally need them and can't let tech manufacturing get set back a decade because China blew up tsm.

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #31)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:49 PM

38. China can take Taiwan quickly, and it will not start bombing the 7th fleet.

Last edited Tue Aug 2, 2022, 08:25 PM - Edit history (1)

No way.

China knows that Pearl Harbor is burned in the American psyche and will not bomb the US navy.
Not unless China is very stupid and they are far from stupid.

China will engage the US in the future perhaps, but no direct attacks right now.

Basically for the time being it just wants to establish regional control of the East as a stepping stone to superpower status.

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #38)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:54 PM

43. ...

Taiwan will engage the US in the future perhaps, but no direct attacks right now.


I'm guessing that you meant China?

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #43)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 08:24 PM

59. Thanks MCE. I misspoke.

Answering too many posts at one time.

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #38)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 09:38 PM

70. Quickly?

Taiwan is better armed than Ukraine. The whole island is bristling with advanced us weapons and anti air/ship missiles. They could win, but they would lose a lot doing it and the chip foundries would all get destroyed.

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #38)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 10:14 PM

73. Not at all likely that

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #29)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:45 PM

37. But Japan remembers Nagasaki and does not relish more atomic bombs dropped on their cities.

Japan could back down in a nuclear confrontation with China.

Japan is a tiny island with most of its population in urban areas.
It could be totally wiped out very easily.

China in contrast is a vast country with a huge population.
It might not run scared.

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #37)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:51 PM

40. I am not sure why you are propagating these doomsday scenarios?

The economics clearly indicates that this is nonsense. Remember that this is the Speaker of the House, not the President. Not that it would give China leeway to have a substantive hissy-fit.

I am just not sure why you seem to be provoking the issue.

Ok. All's fair, so perhaps the US is going to nuke Beijing? Sarcastic, yes, but I am not sure what is going to be accomplished by unwarranted fearmongering.

So China is upset....do you really think that's cause for WWW III?

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Response to MerryHolidays (Reply #40)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:55 PM

44. War gaming is my hobby. We are realists. I grew up in the military during wartime.

I guarantee you 100% that US military intelligence is having the same discussions as we speak.

War gaming and being a history buff or military brat is not for the weak of stomach.

Sorry to rattle you.

China taking Taiwan is not going to cause WIII. Just like Putin invading Ukraine did not cause WWII.

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #44)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:59 PM

48. You're not rattling me or anyone. I am fully aware that this is not a lark by President Biden or

Speaker Pelosi.

President Biden is doing a FINE job in fighting Russia via the limitations that NATO and the EU has with a non-member.

Taiwan is different. Again, please explain what precise motivation that China would have in terms of worldwide sanctions to invade Taiwan. The failure to address this rattles me.

Thanks.

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Response to MerryHolidays (Reply #48)


Response to WarGamer (Reply #51)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 08:12 PM

54. I really don't disagree with you

Except, the US is not ok with what has happened with Russia. We are basically in a virtual WW III.

The Chinese haven't eaten dirt since Tiananmen Square and the numerous protests since then. If there is a global sanction threat against China, that is a huge deterrent. As President Obama said, Russia is a just a gas station. China, by contrast, is a totally different animal. The Chinese government knows that prosperity is a way to keep propagating control. If prosperity is gone, that tool is gone too.

That is exactly why China opened up to the rest of the world in the mid-1970s. They are absolutely not going to risk that for Taiwan. Speaker Pelosi's visit is a reason why.

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #51)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 08:13 PM

55. Ain't that the truth,

we as Americans are the quick fix type and are used to our creature comforts, and the Chinese are worker bees to please the leadership and obey like lemmings.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #55)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 09:12 PM

68. Casual racism much?

Seriously. I'm not sure this is the right venue for reviving some full-on Yellow Peril.

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Response to dpibel (Reply #68)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 10:12 PM

72. WTF are you talking about?

Racism? Fucking really?

Using the term worker bees is not racism.

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Response to MerryHolidays (Reply #48)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 08:19 PM

57. It is simple. China will be a 21st century superpower.

Like Russia with the same plans, they must have total regional control as a stepping stone.

Neither one is going to tolerate US presence so close to their borders.

Just like JFK did with Cuba, made Russia pull out its nukes.

That is simple to understand, but so is the US viewpoint.

We are not going to tolerate the wholesale slaughter of innocent civilians who are our allies.
We don't like Hitler types invading innocent countries. We believe countries have a right to chose their own forms of government. We don't want to see democratic countries turned into dictatorships.

I think Biden is doing a fabulous job in Ukraine. I knew for sure his fighting Irish side would come out and he would do the right thing by Ukraine.

China knows that the US is afraid of Russian nukes and figures it can use the same gambit with Taiwan. And we know certainly China has a few cards to play in terms of hurting the US financially in retaliation for any sanctions.

War gaming is a critical military activity which saves lives and wins wars. You are making good points and asking the right questions.

I guarantee you that CIA and military intelligence agencies are having the same discussion you and I are having.

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #57)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 08:23 PM

58. I genuinely don't believe that China will invade Taiwan.

But I am forever reminded about the last scenes of Dr. Strangelove:

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Response to MerryHolidays (Reply #58)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 10:15 PM

74. That movie was definitely funny in a dark way. nt

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Response to MerryHolidays (Reply #40)


Response to roamer65 (Reply #29)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 07:52 PM

41. It might be a very smart move by China right now.

China could have the US over a barrel.

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #41)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 08:51 PM

66. Agree! Maybe they are looking at how weak we look at the moment as well.

With all the election bullshit happening here and now. Actually i believe we have a couple hundred RETHUGLICON congress people that will be rooting for China and Russia. This IS perhaps the best time for China to make it's move.

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)


Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Tue Aug 2, 2022, 08:06 PM

50. Why would the Chinese want to inflict misery

on Taiwan? Taiwan has a successful economy and infrastructure.
China is reliant on a flow of materials to its economy and is very reliant on outside energy resourses to maintain its equilibrium.
While Putin wants to label himself a success in incorporating Ukraine and perhaps other states to his legacy, he is wasting the birthright of his country to acquire a dead zone.
The Chinese want to be THE economic super power. Their military is designed to enforce authoritarian rule. They know that American hegemony was won by trade, not bombs.
They don't need to bomb.
We gave them the technology so our rich guy's bank accounts could grow.
Now some look back and say ouch.
They've got us by the short hairs and only through shrewd diplomacy can we maintain our standing.
Elect another republican president and what little leverage we have with honor and integrity will be gone. The Chinese do respect honor, still. They have to,
to manage their population.
They see us as on our way out. No need to bomb.

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Response to cachukis (Reply #50)


Response to WarGamer (Reply #53)

Wed Aug 3, 2022, 07:24 AM

75. Most of us do not follow Asia very well.

China, while turning to Russia for oil and gas, is only getting a trickle until pipelines get built. There have been a number of runs on banks there of late, and covid has continued to be unsettling.
While China will become the world's dominant power in a a few years, contending with the mayhem of a physical confrontation appears reckless and ultimately unnecessary.
It is not the death of millions that worries them, it is the fragility of an economy reliant on exports.
Sixty percent of the Chinese live on around $10.00 a day. Forty percent have some wealth, but we know about living from paycheck to paycheck.
Besides, we still control the seaways for a while.
China is working on that and they know how well Pearl Harbor worked out.
Nukes are nuts and the Chinese are not nuts.

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