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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsStaten Island is the Lower Ninth Ward
If you haven't seen what's going on in working class Staten Island, please do yourself a favor and follow it. The parallels to Katrina and the blue collar, lower income residents of the borough are astounding.
They need help. But Wall Street isn't there, nor are any casinos.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)Just saw a segment on O'Donnell. Schumer & Gillebrand (sp?) went there today, bringing a lot of press with them. Red Cross will be there with 4 trucks tomorrow and FEMA is now on the ground and Janet Napolitano will be there tomorrow too.
nobodyspecial
(2,286 posts)I'm glad the media brought awareness to their plight.
NotThisTime
(3,657 posts)Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)were there by late Tuesday, distributing food, water and gasoline.
superpatriotman
(6,246 posts)To that.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Here's one from Tuesday..
http://www.myfoxny.com/story/19950594/national-guard-on-staten-island
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)abcnews.go.com/.../were-going-to-die-staten-island-residents-plead-f.
superpatriotman
(6,246 posts)My OP still stands.
demgrrrll
(3,590 posts)superpatriotman
(6,246 posts)Not insulting anyone.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)superpatriotman
(6,246 posts)The tone of your posts is neither empathetic nor progressive. Rest assured, I have been here a long time, though I do not feel the need to defend my bona fides to you.
I feel for all the victims, especially those who can ill afford what is to come of their immediate future. I'm sure you do too. So lets stop this, ok?
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)I am saying that the media is turning this into a story that is not accurate and that you are using the wrong location to draw any type of parallel to NOLA. If this story was coming out of Newark, NJ I would be right there with you. If I hadn't found articles saying the Nat'l Guard and Red Cross arrived on Tuesday, I would be right there with you. I live in FL, I know well what Hurricanes do. I was here when Andrew wiped out Homestead, FL. I remember lying awake and listening to thunder that was 40 miles away and went on forever and being scared to death for the people living through that storm. My former husband was one of hundreds of insurance professionals sent in with checkbooks to issue checks for $5,000 to people who could only provide their names and addresses....but could be found in the system because of the wonders of modern technology.... It is an awful situation, there are 2 million people in NJ without power...is that due to neglect?
I am quite empathetic and quite progressive....to the best of my knowledge neither requires me to expect the impossible.
superpatriotman
(6,246 posts)Perhaps we were neighbors, though my neighborhood escaped its wrath.
Newark is messed up, agreed.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)I'm in Palm Beach County and Andrew was a small, ferocious storm that stalled when it made Landfall....Did you hear the storm at all? I've lived through hurricanes since....several much closer and when we had damage....but none ever scared me the way I feared for the people living through Andrew.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)They provide links proving its true. And you still stand by your assertion that they AREN'T there? The folks were told to evacuate. They didn't. They were provided shelters, they refused to go. And now they are in trouble and you are insinuating... what?
I'm not following you at all.
superpatriotman
(6,246 posts)This thread is starting to read like a post Katrina FR thread.
Zone A was told to evacuate on the 28th. Five shelters. Many with no transport.
I'm only insinuating that Staten Island looks eerily similar to the Lower Ward.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)That's NOTHING like Katrina.
Your attempts to link this to Bush's fuck-up are noted.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)The city has to rethink the evacuation map. Many people had nowhere to go, and the city shelters were not enough to hold 375,000 people. Many people had no place to go. I know this because i have 50 relatives on all places on the island. I live across from the island in Brooklyn. I was pissed people did not leave, but there were reasons. This city told people to leave at the last possible minute.
Ter
(4,281 posts)Where there is, there are 2 hour waits. Trust me, I'm here now.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...We've known this was coming for like a week though - I think many people underestimated this storm and should have just moved as far inland as fast as possible once the order was given.
Surely inland areas were better supplied and have facilities that could provide shelter
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)by Hurricanes...I live in FL. I am not trying to say that everything is back to normal....it won't be normal for months...there is only so much man can do in the face of this destruction. You have my sincere sympathy and best wishes for the safety of all who must endure this tragedy.
superpatriotman
(6,246 posts)Four trucks with water and mre's for 500000 people in utter devastation ain't gonna cut it. I'm screaming at my tv the same as I did after Katrina.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)we have huge ships outfitted with tanks, ammo, food, etc, ready to move to the next warzone. I guarantee they have enough MREs to last a bit.
demgrrrll
(3,590 posts)Quixote1818
(28,918 posts)20 out of the 40 deaths were there.
vaberella
(24,634 posts)However, first responders were there right after the storm and the people were told to evacuate early on. This is a replica of Katrina. People were sent in right away to help people and they are going door to door to help people.
Tree-Hugger
(3,369 posts)There is a lot of hilly terrain in SI and many folks were quite high up and out of the way of all the flooding. A large chunk of my family live there.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)vaberella
(24,634 posts)The ocean water actually came into people's houses. You can also tune into any of the news footage and see the aerial view of Staten Island. It does not have a lot of hilly terrain. Not to mention the NY1 reporters clearly stated it is at sea level, backed up by the Governor.
Tree-Hugger
(3,369 posts)My family is from there. I spent nearly every weekend there as a child. I spent summers there as a teen. I visit my family there quite often. My aunt lives at the top of a big hill. We used to have a blast riding our bikes down. I am very familiar with the Island, thank you.
ETA - I mean, visit Todt Hill. It's the highest point out of all 5 boroughs.
Tree-Hugger
(3,369 posts)Such as Todt Hill which is 400+ above sea level and Grymes Hill (near Wagner College). Actually, I think Todt Hill is the highest point above sea level south of Massachusetts. I need to google that.
Have you actually been there? Even if you have friends in a lower level area, such as South Beach, you would have had to see the higher elevations and the hills. You can't miss it. Just look at the other side of the Verrazano - the North Shore is higher than South Beach. In fact, they fared better in the storm.
Sorry to harp on this, but I KNOW Staten Island extremely well and you're insinuating that I am incorrect, which is uncool.
Have some links about geography:
http://www.library.csi.cuny.edu/dept/as/geo/sigeo.htm
http://www.preserve.org/serpentine/serpentine.htm
I'm not denying that they have had mass flooding. I am well aware of that and it breaks my heart and I'm trying to help. I know Staten Island has lower elevations. My grandmother is from Dongan Hills, which had it's share of flooding. I know the terrain quite well.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)flooded. Staten Island is the highest place in NYC, and the lowest. People were not helped right away but that is Bloombergs fault.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)didn't know that, I know about zero about New York and its various areas.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,816 posts)Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)The Red Cross and National Guard arrived Tuesday and began distributing food, water and gasoline. State Island is not New Orleans and Fugate is not Brownie....
superpatriotman
(6,246 posts)Only Manhattan, and the beaches and beachfront communities of NJ and Long Island.
eqfan592
(5,963 posts)The bullshit is starting to pile up.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)Spazito
(50,127 posts)coincidence - not.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)superpatriotman
(6,246 posts)What exactly?
That working class communities don't get a shitty deal? That securing expensive property doesn't take precedence? I've lived through enough hurricanes to know the truth.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)there is no cheap real estate in NYC...in any borough. The population of Staten Island is about 470,000...there are 2.6 million in Brooklyn....All 5 boroughs were hit, why is the plight of Staten Island suddenly any worse than those of others?
You want a sob story, why not research how bad things are in Newark, NJ...if it was being neglected that would be your parallel to New Orleans...not Staten Island.
brush
(53,726 posts). . . about Staten Island. It got hit hard but so did Jersey, Coney Island in Brooklyn, the Rockaways and Breezy Point in Queens, and many other areas along Brooklyn, Queens and Long Island's south shore and they aren't necessarily ritzy areas either. It's mass devastation through out the area, so Staten Island's blue collar areas aren't getting overlooked because they're working class. There's damage everywhere and Staten Island is somewhat isolated as you have to go across the Verrazano Bridge or take the ferry to get to Staten Island but help is getting there now.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)get supplies to my relatives who have no power. They have said they have not seen any help until today. Bloomberg is the biggest screw-up there is.
FrenchieCat
(68,867 posts)And Obama ain't no magic Negro!
At least God was allowed 7 days!
nobodyspecial
(2,286 posts)No shit
Eddie Haskell
(1,628 posts)USA, USA, USA ...
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Done.
amborin
(16,631 posts)maybe this does need to get addressed asap.
the republicans are pushing this as their newest meme.
the WSJ is now saying no generators in S.I., etc.....
the staten island borough pres/congress person, molinaro, is
bitching, too.....
whether this is valid or not, the right wing is salivating
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)vaberella
(24,634 posts)That is bullshit. Further more there was regular warnings of the storm hitting NOrthern Jersey and all of the 5 boroughs. Stop lying.
superpatriotman
(6,246 posts)Not weather radar. Ok?
vaberella
(24,634 posts)I was watching the news in Florida and Staten Island was listed as the Metropolitan area of NYC. HELLO!!! When I came back to NYC right before the storm laid foot, there was radar all over NY1 and ABC7 and the bloody Weather channel. You are not telling the truth.
superpatriotman
(6,246 posts)I meant post storm news coverage. And I'm sure there's many communities that still haven't gotten attention.
Why do you want to argue the point?
vaberella
(24,634 posts)Again I'm lost. Post storm news coverage talked about Staten Island. She lived in Staten Island...there was news coverage all over Staten Island along with Glenda Moore's tragic story.
You were incorrect in your statement and spreading false hoods, hence the reason I was arguing the point. And you keep on clarifying you statement which changes the direction of your statement and then can be easily debunked---proving your false.
Chorophyll
(5,179 posts)Lifelong New Yorker here. New York City is an enormous metropolitan area. (Something like 20 million if you count the near suburbs.) But it is in a blue state, and has good governance and surprisingly good infrastructure.
Staten Island is indeed an island -- a big one -- in between New York and New Jersey. Flooding in all of the coastal areas in and around New York was more severe than anyone had ever seen. Some communities are on barrier islands accessible only by one or two roads. The situation is not perfect; not everyone could or would evacuate these areas. But there are many, many boots on the ground (and boats in the water) and this has been the case for days.
If you don't trust the MSM to report accurately on the election, why trust them to report accurately on this? They'll seek out the worst situations (and yeah, there are some bad ones, absolutely) because they want ratings.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)Also, we should remember that Staten Island has always been "different" the conservative bastion in a very liberal city.
Chorophyll
(5,179 posts)But I think people from outside the area don't always get quite how big and diverse this region is. Given the size of the area, the number of people, how spread out they are, and the sheer hellishness of the storm, I think the response has been amazing.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)I had friends who spun cable on that bridge. I asked the other day, but you may not have seen it....Is Fort Hamilton High School still there on Shore Road?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)It is ancient...there were 5,000 students there when I attended! Thanks so much.
malaise
(268,646 posts)and since then FEMA and the national guard have moved in
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)I am beginning to smell a rat in all of this hysteria about poor little Staten Island...
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)Point is well-taken.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Did they just back? Or did they not leave?
This is a humongous problem. These things do take TIME. Whenever a disaster occurs, people have to be prepared to live on their own until help arrives. I doubt anyone is intentionally avoiding them.
I read that there was a shelter in Staten Island. Is there not?
A lady was yelling that they need help...how can their children go to school without clothes or transportation. She was understandably at her wits end. But I doubt school is going to open right away, is it?
I'm not sure what a person does in that situation while they wait. Locate all the food that may be left. Call your ins. company and file a claim. Find a safe place to sleep. Make the elderly ones as comfortable as possible. Pass out food to your neighbors, if you have any to spare. But even when help comes, they can't fix everything. They can provide basic food, blankets, things like that. Maybe take people to a local shelter.
There they wait until FEMA arranges temporary housing, I guess.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)"I read that there was a shelter in Staten Island."
A shelter? A? For all 500,000 residents?
vaberella
(24,634 posts)Not to mention most of the schools were turned into shelters. Where are you getting your information. And these people were given an evacuation notice roughly a week before the storm.
superpatriotman
(6,246 posts)Five evac centers for those in Zone A ordered on the 28th.
http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/10/mayor_bloomberg.html
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)She seems to think Staten Island is around the size of, say, City Island. of course, she doesn't know what or where City Island is either, so I guess that wouldn't help.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I get my info from my relatives there. Just watch the local coverage here. Many of these people did evacuate and went home because they had no place to go. Give them compassion my friend. Blame bloomberg because he did not give any real warning. 2 days before the storm he told nyers to wait and do nothing yet. He gave people only 18 hours to get out. Half the people who got flooded out were not in evacuation zones.
Jennicut
(25,415 posts)Mostly the shoreline of Staten Island, not the entire island itself.
NJ had the same thing....people in low lying areas were told to leave. But in Atlantic City and other areas, not everyone left. In CT, people were told to leave that lived along the shoreline too. Gov. Malloy was told some did not leave and sent in the national guard to rescue some people.
K8-EEE
(15,667 posts)It's hard for me to understand after Katrina why so many people stayed in the evacuation ordered zones of Staten Island.
LisaL
(44,967 posts)So how do you propose they evacuate, when subways were closed?
K8-EEE
(15,667 posts)This storm was seen coming days in advance what if they were provided transportation and accommodations in government shelters inland, but compelled to go?
markpkessinger
(8,392 posts)Evacuation orders were issued well in advance of the transit closings, and ample advance notice of the transit closings was given. My heart goes out to these folks, BUT they have only themselves to blame for the predicament in which they find themselves.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Many of the people flooded out were not in zone a.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Now here we see people on a progressive site doing the same thing in reverse.
markpkessinger
(8,392 posts)...the reason many folks in the Lower Ninth Ward didn't have cars was that they were too poor. VERY FEW folks who live in Staten Island do not have cars, because, unlike the other boroughs, things are more spread out on Staten Island, thus making it very difficult to live there if you don't own a car. They had the means to leave. They gambled, and they lost. Everything should be done to get help to them as quickly as possible, and I'm not suggesting they deserve anything less than a compassionate response. So no, this is NOT the thing conservatives did with Katrina in reverse!
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Since no subway line goes to Staten Island.
vaberella
(24,634 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)shut down a few hours after out idiot mayor told people to get out.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)You are right they could not evacuate.
K8-EEE
(15,667 posts)What if it was mandatory, if they had announced everyone has to be out on Friday and those with no transportation and nowhere to go, will get provided transportation and accommodations.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)superpatriotman
(6,246 posts)And age, sickness, etc.
I refuse to shake a finger at them and say "you were warned!"
K8-EEE
(15,667 posts)If we started taking this seriously enough to compel people to leave in extreme cases like this, we would have had fewer deaths. Understood that people would get pissed if they had to spend a couple of nights in the high school gym and the storm fizzled but oh well.
How else to deal with it? If people "ride out" stuff like this, death is gonna happen.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)People need transportation and a place to be taken to. People also would be more willing to go if they knew everyone else was leaving.
demhottie
(292 posts)They left that poor black mother on the sidewalk screaming for help and no one would open their doors or call 911 while her 2 year old and 4 year old died.
Staten Island is notoriously racist and mean spirited. Good luck stirring people up with sympathy.
Try googling Staten Island and racism and you'll see what a poor fit your Ninth Ward analogy is.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)If there is a disaster and people need help, they should receive that help.
demhottie
(292 posts)I didn't say they should not be helped.
There's a long distance between not feeling sympathy and saying let em drown.
brooklynite
(94,299 posts)...there are City shelters and food distribution sites, and buses out of the borough are running (free of charge)
Avalux
(35,015 posts)Tree-Hugger
(3,369 posts)The majority of my family lives on Staten Island. It's horrible what happened there and my heart goes out to them. I have watched footage of streets and home where I played all under water. However, this is not comparable to Katrina and NOLA. They had aid there as early as Tuesday. There was media coverage of flooding there immediately. I know, because I was in a panic sending texts and everything to family members. Also, Staten Island is a big crowded and it is very diverse. There are definitely low income people there, but it also has it's fair share of middle class, upper middle class and very wealthy people as well. There are plenty multi-million dollar homes there. From some of the reports that I have read, you would think the outside view of Staten Island is that it's always been some poverty-stricken third world country and that is simply not true.
Spazito
(50,127 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)500,000 people live there - in housing projects, in mansions, in row houses. Do people really not know that Wu Tang Clan hails from Staten Island (which they call Shaolin)? Some people on this thread act as if Staten Island is some small island or something: it's much bigger than Manhattan in size.
Just for comparison, more people live in Staten Island (468,000) than live in the following cities:
Atlanta, Georgia (432,000)
St. Louis, Missouri (320,000)
Minneapolis, Minnesota (390,000)
Richmond and Norfolk, Virginia COMBINED (450,000)
and, lastly, since the OP was making a ludicrous comparison,
New Orleans, Louisiana (360,000)
Yes, Staten Island has more people in it than the entire city of Atlanta, the entire city of St. Louis, the entire city of Minneapolis, the entire city of New Orleans, and the entire cities of Richmond and Norfolk.
And the entire city of New Orleans. Lower Ninth Ward, indeed.
Tree-Hugger
(3,369 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)areas - and the scale of this disaster. Saying that Staten Island is like the Lower Ninth Ward is an instance of such silliness. Staten Island is much larger in population than the entire city of New Orleans.
And it is the SMALLEST borough in population. Queens has 2.25 million people in it. That's more people than each of the thirteen smallest states. In Queen alone. As I said, Staten Island, which is the SMALLEST borough in New York City by population, has a larger population than Atlanta, Georgia.
Just as a measure, consider this. I grew up in Queens. I went to elementary ("Public School" in Queens. I went to Junior High School in Queens. I went to High School in Queens. My mother and our family have lived in Queens since the 1950's, and in Brooklyn before that, back to the 19th century. Before three days ago, I never in my life heard of Breezy Point, Queens, and I consider myself a bit of a NYC connoisseur.
NYC is massive, being the point. Most of the people on this thread can't seem to conceptualize the scale of even Staten Island, much less the expansive disaster that local, state, and federal authorities are dealing with just inside the five boroughs, much less Jersey, Nassau and Suffolk, Connecticut, Rhode island, and points west.
This thing is orders of magnitude worse than Katrina, and is being handled orders of magnitude better.
Because we have somebody competent in charge.
Tree-Hugger
(3,369 posts)I have so many friends and family in all 5 boroughs and it's true - you may not know all of the neighborhoods within your own borough. I find that to be true even among many SI residents. People look at it on the map like it's a tiny island and just assume that it must be this itty bitty little shanty town of poor people. One of my uncles built quite a few houses for some big time multi-millionaires up there. For a tiny island, it's a huge place. Until a few days ago, most people didn't even know Staten Island existed and now they are experts on it.
Ter
(4,281 posts)Wish it still were, too many people moved there.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)It had just shy of 300,000 in the 1970 census.
vaberella
(24,634 posts)gkhouston
(21,642 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Repeating RW talking points.
Staten Island may not be Manhatten, but its a long way from the 9th ward. There were free buses out, many people refused to evacuate. Help came on Tuesday, less than 24 hours after the storm. Uh, if you choose not to evacuate, and aren't self-sufficient for even 24 hours, then you are truly a dumb-ass.
shawmut
(1,525 posts)Fail troll
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)So, your post is shit.
Blueprogress
(64 posts)The president has been untop of this storm from the beginning. Even your beloved Bownie accused him of responding too quickly. There is nothing in disaster response that can be compared to the failure that happened in Katrina. Nice try.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)This is the teabagger capital of NYC. They are nothing more than a bunch of whiners, who think that their bowel movements smell like roses.
They often say that they want the government out of their business, but now they want FEMA to come and rescue them.
Give it a break already, they are no better than the rest of us and will have to wait their turn.
What's next, are the teabaggers in Bay Ridge gonna start whining?
I think it's time to call out the whaaambulance for them.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)The President has been all over this from the get go.
durablend
(7,455 posts)Why I don't seem to be hearing A THING about Long Island on the news? Contrary to popular belief, everyone there isn't "richie-rich" either and half of THEM are still without electricity (never mind the homes that burned down/under water/just plain destroyed).
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)I say "Fuck Off!" when I say "Hello".
Hello, superpatriotman!