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Cyrano

(15,031 posts)
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 04:21 PM Jul 2022

About the Antifa bullshit

Proud Boys exist. They want to destroy democracy. They have lots of guns and they were there on January 6th.

Oath Keepers exist. They want to destroy our democracy. They have lots of guns. They were there on January 6th.

Antifa is a term thrown around by right wing lunatics. It means "anti fascist." So I guess all who are against them are against fascism.

Here's the definition I pulled off of Google which seems like a lot of word salad to define some some unorganized group of left wingers who aren't even affiliated with each other.

Antifa is a left-wing anti-fascist and anti-racist political movement in the United States. As a highly decentralized array of autonomous groups, antifa uses both nonviolent and violent direct action to achieve its aims.[1][2][3] Much of antifa political activism is nonviolent, involving poster and flyer campaigns, mutual aid, speeches, protest marches, and community organizing.[4][5][6] Some who identify as antifa also combat far-right extremists (such as neo-Nazis and white supremacists) and, at times, law enforcement,[2] with tactics including digital activism, doxing, harassment, physical violence, and property damage.[2][7]

Individuals involved in the movement tend to hold anti-authoritarian, anti-capitalist, and anti-state views, subscribing to a range of left-wing ideologies. A majority of individuals involved are anarchists, communists, and socialists who describe themselves as revolutionaries, and have little allegiance to liberal democracy,[8] although some social democrats also adhere to the antifa movement.[6][9][10] The name antifa and the logo with two flags representing anarchism and communism are derived from the German antifa movement.[11] Dartmouth College historian Mark Bray, author of Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook, credits Anti-Racist Action (ARA) as the precursor of modern antifa groups in the United States.[12][13]

The American antifa movement grew after Donald Trump was elected president of the United States in 2016. Antifa activists' actions have since received support and criticism from various organizations and pundits. Some on the left criticize antifa's willingness to adopt violent tactics, which they describe as counterproductive, emboldening the right and their allies.[14] Many right-wing politicians and groups characterize it as a domestic terrorist organization or use antifa as a catch-all term[15] for any left-leaning or liberal protest actions.[16] Some scholars argue that antifa is a legitimate response to the rise of the far-right[17] and that antifa's violence is not equivalent to right-wing violence.[3] Scholars tend to reject the equivalence between antifa and white supremacy.[2][18][19]

There have been numerous efforts to discredit antifa by various right-wing groups and individuals.[20][21] Some have been done via hoaxes on social media, many of them false flag operations originating from alt-right and 4chan users posing as antifa backers on Twitter;[22][23][24] some hoaxes have been picked up and portrayed as fact by right-leaning media and politicians.[22][25][26][27] There were repeated calls by Donald Trump and William Barr to designate antifa as a terrorist organization[28] despite the fact that it is not an organization. Academics, legal experts, and others have argued such an action would exceed the authority of the presidency and violate the First Amendment.[29][30][31] Several analyses, reports, and studies have concluded that antifa is not a major domestic terrorism risk.


Wingnuts will make up any shit to discredit us. It seems to me that being against fascism is something we should be proud of.
51 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
About the Antifa bullshit (Original Post) Cyrano Jul 2022 OP
They want to create a false equivalency that does not exist. Bluethroughu Jul 2022 #1
The first sentence of this essay is WRONG FakeNoose Jul 2022 #2
x1000 BlueIdaho Jul 2022 #4
Antifa is 90 years old and was founded in Germany in 1932 LeftInTX Jul 2022 #6
✔️✔️✔️✔️✔️✔️✔️ live love laugh Jul 2022 #8
At what point does this denial become conspiracy thinking? Sympthsical Jul 2022 #14
Agreed. They are not what the Right Wingers say they are, but there is such a thing. Caliman73 Jul 2022 #19
Exactly, it's an easy one stop shop villain for the Right Sympthsical Jul 2022 #23
One of the reasons that further left and Antifa types are universally disliked... Caliman73 Jul 2022 #24
I started getting into Che Guevara lately Sympthsical Jul 2022 #26
+100 Celerity Jul 2022 #28
Too many semantic games with the terms anti facist and antifa uponit7771 Jul 2022 #38
FakeNoose Is Correct. n/t Different Drummer Jul 2022 #33
+1, uponit7771 Jul 2022 #37
Check your third paragraph. It draws the wrong conclusion. brush Jul 2022 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author muriel_volestrangler Jul 2022 #36
When I am talking to known Republicans/Libertarians, my "joke" about Antifa is this: KarenS Jul 2022 #5
We're meeting at four behind Old Man Johnson's barn cyclonefence Jul 2022 #7
I'll be there, wearing a red carnation, and my Roisin Ni Fiachra Jul 2022 #51
Antifa is made up BS. If there was an Antifa it was Emile Jul 2022 #9
Absolute nonsense. Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #11
You do know NAZIS were fascists? Emile Jul 2022 #12
Antifa is/was anti-military LeftInTX Jul 2022 #13
Not true. They folded into the German Communist Party and ran East Germany Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #22
I do. The original German Antifa helped the Nazis come to power. Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #15
Anybody who fought the Nazis were against fascists. Emile Jul 2022 #17
I guess you didn't bother to read it. Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #18
From the wiki ... "Antifa is not a unified organization..", some are playing a semantic game when uponit7771 Jul 2022 #39
Antifa fought the liberal German Social Democrats as their main political enemy. Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #49
The MAGAt king and his worshipers are constantly using bullshit propaganda about Antifa Roisin Ni Fiachra Jul 2022 #46
I'm not remotely "helping them" and falsely saying otherwise is a slur and personal attack. Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #47
This message was self-deleted by its author Roisin Ni Fiachra Jul 2022 #48
Simple: Antifaschistische Aktion Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #50
My grandparents fought in WW2 were democrats and by default being American born antifa rockfordfile Jul 2022 #34
Being anti-fascist and Antifa are not synonymous terms. Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #35
+1, RIGHT !!! People are playing the rights semantic games uponit7771 Jul 2022 #40
Antifa had nothing to do with this shooting. Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #10
Bray also said: Baked Potato Jul 2022 #20
Some of their actions involve violence and some do not. Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #21
Semantics uponit7771 Jul 2022 #41
I think I have seen two people call themselves AntiFa. One was a big black dude at Charlotesville brewens Jul 2022 #16
Antifa actually exists Progressive dog Jul 2022 #25
I've seen Antifa flags with my own eyes. maxsolomon Jul 2022 #27
Thank you for being Tickle Jul 2022 #29
I haven't seen them do bad. maxsolomon Jul 2022 #30
I didn't know about Tickle Jul 2022 #31
It makes us look ignorant and backward LOL LeftInTX Jul 2022 #32
Recommend. Fuck fascism. I'm a staunch anti-fascist, and don't know anyone who belongs to Roisin Ni Fiachra Jul 2022 #42
Are you aware that the original German Antifa was the KPD? Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #43
That's horseshit. Why are you so actively invested in trashing anti-fascism, and anti-fascists? Roisin Ni Fiachra Jul 2022 #44
Did you did not read what I actually wrote? Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #45

FakeNoose

(32,617 posts)
2. The first sentence of this essay is WRONG
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 04:32 PM
Jul 2022

"Antifa" is not a political movement of any kind - leftwing or otherwise. It's an invention by a group of people who cannot function unless they have enemies to project their outrage onto.

That's all it is.

Sympthsical

(9,067 posts)
14. At what point does this denial become conspiracy thinking?
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 04:55 PM
Jul 2022

They exist. I've seen them with my own eyes and experienced them in the Bay Area. I don't usually argue with people heavily armed with, uh, Twitter and google, but this is such a ridiculous statement to make.

Were they involved in Jan. 6th? No, of course not. But they are an actual thing.

Every time someone says, "Antifa doesn't exist!" I begin to wonder why this blatant, highly provably false statement needs to be repeated so often. What is this reinforcing? What ideological purpose does this bizarre falsehood serve?

We're people of facts and reality or we're not.

Antifa exists. They grew out of other left-wing movements like those who existed during the economic protests in the 90s and 00s. Sometimes they're militant and violent. Sometimes not. They kind of get meshy and indistinguishable from groups like Black Bloc and By Any Means Necessary. When looking at left-wing professional protesters, it can get very fluid and amorphous about who belongs to what and where.

And I'm speaking from my own experience and my own witness. I think anyone who has lived in the Bay Area more than six months has stories about them.

Are they the biggest problem before us? No. Not by a long way. They are certainly not the Great Enemy the Right would have one believe.

But pretending they don't exist entirely, repeating that, trying to spread that. Why? It's so easily disproven. Just stop saying this ridiculousness. It's a pure credibility loss for no useful purpose whatsoever. It makes us look really weird.

Caliman73

(11,728 posts)
19. Agreed. They are not what the Right Wingers say they are, but there is such a thing.
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 05:10 PM
Jul 2022

As it says, they are highly decentralized, there is no one specific Antifa organization, but a loose affiliation of local organizations that associate as Antifa. Rose City Antifa in Portland Oregon is one such organization that explicitly uses the "Antifa" moniker.

The right wing does need a boogey man to point to in order to use false equivalency.

Sympthsical

(9,067 posts)
23. Exactly, it's an easy one stop shop villain for the Right
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 05:29 PM
Jul 2022

I had a tenant who moved out a few months ago. He was very left-wing. Very, very. I'm a fairly standard progressive, but we generally got along. We exchanged books to read. I usually gave him whatever I had read about poverty, homelessness, and the crises in social services. He'd give me books like "Brown Skin, White Minds" (which was actually a really interesting read). He was more about racial aspects within his activism, whereas I tend to focus on the economic impacts of social inequality.

However, he had friends who I probably would peg as Antifa. He'd make references to what they'd get up to. Not just protesting, but plans at various bits of disruption. He never participated (or at least, that's what he told me). He always kind of hung apart from his friends. He was quiet, on the spectrum, and I know he volunteered with the homeless. But we'd discuss it peripherally, and some of the connections between his friends and other groups were connections I knew about when I used to spend tons of time around Oakland and Berkeley.

They're not really anti-fascist. They have an authoritarian streak a mile wide. Fascist is just whatever they're against at any given moment. Usually capitalism. And they hate Democrats. Hate hate hate. So I think people should think a time or two before deciding what they're defending. They're not fans of any part of our current political order.

One of the funnier things about my tenant is how he was about my partner whose house he was living in. He's an immigrant who worked up to the nicer part of middle class. We have a lovely home. We've succeeded. My tenant, however, would knock every piece of middle class anything about my partner. Just anything out of my partner's mouth, or his sensibilities, or even what movies or shows he watched. It was all so tragically bougie. I used to have to remind him now and then, "You know we're together, right?"

It would crack me up every time he did it (my partner is super bougie). But I always found it funny. My tenant definitely had a bit of bitterness and hostility in it. They're both Filipino, and I think he saw my partner as some kind of race traitor for having attained that very stereotypical middle class American existence.

So, interesting people. Kind of ok with him moving out. There was never any real problem, but as I typed this post out, I keep remembering things and thinking, "Oh. Right. I forgot about that. Probably good for everyone he's gone."

Caliman73

(11,728 posts)
24. One of the reasons that further left and Antifa types are universally disliked...
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 05:39 PM
Jul 2022

They are against capitalism. They see Capitalism as the main problem. Given that the Democratic Party still supports capitalism, the phrase, "you get the bullet too" springs to mind. Some of the most radical elements of the left, think that the Democratic Party has no distinction from Conservatism and radical right elements. It is a very myopic point of view.

Sympthsical

(9,067 posts)
26. I started getting into Che Guevara lately
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 05:50 PM
Jul 2022

I always knew the broad strokes, but never got around to the Motorcycle Diaries, writings on the Bolivian Revolution, etc. I've never been a hard leftist, so not really my bag.

Getting into it . . . it's a bit hrm. Marxism, revolution, etc. etc.. Which I never get into discussing, because more and more Marxism is in the eye of the beholder. Ask five different people what it is and you'll get five different answers.

But people who marinate in the stuff aren't the most Democrat friendly. They see our party as keepers of the oppressive order.

Response to brush (Reply #3)

KarenS

(4,071 posts)
5. When I am talking to known Republicans/Libertarians, my "joke" about Antifa is this:
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 04:34 PM
Jul 2022

They don't exist. If they did exist I would have donated to them.

Roisin Ni Fiachra

(2,574 posts)
51. I'll be there, wearing a red carnation, and my
Thu Jul 7, 2022, 03:29 PM
Jul 2022

Radical Progressive Pinko Liberal Enviro Commie Antifascist T-shirt

Bringing my home made Brown Betty!

It's rumored that the Grand Wazoo of Antifa United will be the keynote speaker at the rally.

Emile

(22,636 posts)
9. Antifa is made up BS. If there was an Antifa it was
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 04:43 PM
Jul 2022

during WW2 and my dad was a member by enlisting in the US Army.

Only the White Right Wing Christian Fascists could demonize our greatest generation and not be called on it.

 

Just A Box Of Rain

(5,104 posts)
11. Absolute nonsense.
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 04:48 PM
Jul 2022

My dad fought fascists in WWII (and was a great Democrat who voted for FDR and every Democrat since) but he sure as hell was not a member of Antifa. That is a grave insult.

LeftInTX

(25,218 posts)
13. Antifa is/was anti-military
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 04:54 PM
Jul 2022

They fell apart during WWII and did not support the allied troops.
It's a political party based in Germany.

It's been around for 90 years.

Yes, they are anti-fascist, but they are also anti-military.

 

Just A Box Of Rain

(5,104 posts)
22. Not true. They folded into the German Communist Party and ran East Germany
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 05:26 PM
Jul 2022

as a police state after the war.

 

Just A Box Of Rain

(5,104 posts)
15. I do. The original German Antifa helped the Nazis come to power.
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 05:02 PM
Jul 2022

I suggest you study the history.

Germany's Antifa was controlled by Ernst Thälmann, the leader of the Communist Party of Germany. It was Thälmann who invented the "Hitler First, Then Us" strategy.

The KPD Communist Party of Germany attacked the liberal Social Democratic Party (SPD), which was the 1930's German version of our own Democratic Party, as "social fascists" and made its primary aim towards destroying liberalism (which they call "fascism&quot .

From Wikipedia [emphasis added]:

However, after the Comintern's abrupt ultra-left turn in its Third Period from 1928, the KPD regarded the Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD) as its main adversary and adopted the position that the SPD was the main fascist party in Germany.[13]

This was based on the theory of social fascism that had been proclaimed by Joseph Stalin and that was supported by the Comintern during the late 1920s and early 1930s, which held that social democracy was a variant of fascism.[14]

Consequently, the KPD held that it was "the only anti-fascist party" in Germany[6][15] and stated that "fighting fascism means fighting the SPD just as much as it means fighting Hitler and the parties of Brüning."[16]

In KPD and Soviet usage, fascism was primarily viewed as the final stage of capitalism rather than a specific group or movement such as the Italian Fascists or the German Nazis and, based on this theory, the term was applied quite broadly.

 

Just A Box Of Rain

(5,104 posts)
18. I guess you didn't bother to read it.
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 05:06 PM
Jul 2022

Antifa fought the liberal Social Democrats in Germany, liberals who they branded as "fascists."

They helped pave the way for Hitler. You are tragically mistaken about the history of Antifa.

ETA More from Wikipedia:

Thälmann's KPD thus fought the SPD as its main political enemy, acting according to the Comintern policy which declared Social Democrats to be "social fascists".

This made it difficult for the two leftist parties to work together against the emergence of Adolf Hitler.[10]

The KPD under Thälmann declared that "fighting fascism means fighting the SPD just as much as it means fighting Hitler and the parties of Brüning."[11]

Thälmann declared in December 1931 that "some Nazi trees must not be allowed to overshadow a forest" of social democrats.[12][13] By 1927, Karl Kilbom, the Comintern representative to Germany, had started to combat this ultra-leftist tendency within the German Communist Party, but found Stalin machinating against his efforts.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
39. From the wiki ... "Antifa is not a unified organization..", some are playing a semantic game when
Wed Jul 6, 2022, 04:03 AM
Jul 2022

... it comes to Antifa KNOWING it goes without saying there are individuals who are anti fascist

 

Just A Box Of Rain

(5,104 posts)
49. Antifa fought the liberal German Social Democrats as their main political enemy.
Thu Jul 7, 2022, 02:43 PM
Jul 2022

Are you not aware of that?

Their strategy was to destroy the liberal center, who they branded as "social fascists," help Hitler come to power, and then to replace ultimately the Nazis with the KDP.

The slogan of Ernst Thälmann was "Nach Hitler kommen Wir," which translates roughly as After Hitler, Our Turn.

Know your history.

Roisin Ni Fiachra

(2,574 posts)
46. The MAGAt king and his worshipers are constantly using bullshit propaganda about Antifa
Thu Jul 7, 2022, 02:27 PM
Jul 2022

to discredit the Democratic party and the left in general. Why are you helping them?

There was never any organization known as Antifa in 1930's Germany.You are comparing apples to oranges. Trump supporters are constantly

The American antifa movement grew after Donald Trump was elected president of the United States in 2016. Antifa activists' actions have since received support and criticism from various organizations and pundits. Some on the left criticize antifa's willingness to adopt violent tactics, which they describe as counterproductive, emboldening the right and their allies.[14] Many right-wing politicians and groups characterize it as a domestic terrorist organization or use antifa as a catch-all term[15] for any left-leaning or liberal protest actions.[16] Some scholars argue that antifa is a legitimate response to the rise of the far-right[17] and that antifa's violence is not equivalent to right-wing violence.[3] Scholars tend to reject the equivalence between antifa and white supremacy.[2][18][19]

There have been numerous efforts to discredit antifa by various right-wing groups and individuals.[20][21] Some have been done via hoaxes on social media, many of them false flag operations originating from alt-right and 4chan users posing as antifa backers on Twitter;[22][23][24] some hoaxes have been picked up and portrayed as fact by right-leaning media and politicians.[22][25][26][27] There were repeated calls by Donald Trump and William Barr to designate antifa as a terrorist organization[28] despite the fact that it is not an organization. Academics, legal experts, and others have argued such an action would exceed the authority of the presidency and violate the First Amendment.[29][30][31] Several analyses, reports, and studies have concluded that antifa is not a major domestic terrorism risk.[19][32]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)

 

Just A Box Of Rain

(5,104 posts)
47. I'm not remotely "helping them" and falsely saying otherwise is a slur and personal attack.
Thu Jul 7, 2022, 02:33 PM
Jul 2022

Are you kidding with the "there was never any organization known as Antifa in 1930's Germany" stuff?

That is anti-historical.

I'm more than aware that Trumists attempt to falsely blame all sorts of right-wing violence on Antifa. I said so up thread.

That doesn't mean that a 1930s Antifa did not exist in Germany or that a modern version does not exist in the USA.

Denying reality isn't helpful.

Response to Just A Box Of Rain (Reply #47)

rockfordfile

(8,701 posts)
34. My grandparents fought in WW2 were democrats and by default being American born antifa
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 09:02 PM
Jul 2022

They were extremely anti-fascist.

I'm antifa by default born in USA. Proud to be ant-fascist.

 

Just A Box Of Rain

(5,104 posts)
35. Being anti-fascist and Antifa are not synonymous terms.
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 09:06 PM
Jul 2022

One should be proud of being anti-fascist.

Being Antifa? Not so much.

 

Just A Box Of Rain

(5,104 posts)
10. Antifa had nothing to do with this shooting.
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 04:46 PM
Jul 2022

But many of you are kidding yourselves about the existence and nature of Antifa.

Just because their "organization" is cellular and secretive doesn't mean they don't exist or that they are not violent, illiberal, and Democrat, and extremist.

Being "antifascist" is necessary, but it is not "sufficient."

From Wikipedia:

According to historian Mark Bray, an expert on the movement..."the vast majority of antifa militants are radical anti-capitalists who oppose the Democratic Party" and that Democratic Party leaders, including Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden, have condemned antifa and political violence more broadly.



Baked Potato

(7,733 posts)
20. Bray also said:
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 05:15 PM
Jul 2022

“Bray adds that "t's important to understand that antifa politics, and antifa's methods, are designed to stop white supremacists, fascists, and neo-Nazis as easily as possible."[43] For Bray, "[t]he vast majority of their activities are nonviolent. They function in some ways like private investigators; they track neo-Nazi organizing across multiple social-media platforms."

 

Just A Box Of Rain

(5,104 posts)
21. Some of their actions involve violence and some do not.
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 05:24 PM
Jul 2022

Do understand that the contemporary American version of Antifa has a very broad definition of who is a "fascist."

Germany's liberal Social Democrats were branded as "fascists" by the original Antifa. Today's Antifa has similar attitudes about the Democratic Party.

I lived in Berkeley and continue to spend a lot of time there. We had to deal with these violent anti-liberal, anti-Democratic loons frequently. Don't kid yourself.

They exist. In 2017 the progressive mayor of Berkeley, Jesse Arreguín (a person endorsed by Bernie Sanders) called for Antifa to be branded as a criminal gang under California law and be subject to gang-injunction ordinances. And for good reason.

brewens

(13,563 posts)
16. I think I have seen two people call themselves AntiFa. One was a big black dude at Charlotesville
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 05:02 PM
Jul 2022

mixing it up with the white supremacists. He was interviewed and gave his name and everything. He was not masked. The another was a woman educator of some kind on I think the west coast. She had no organization or anything.

I think some kids in Portland called themselves that going back to the G-7. Some of them maybe say they are AntiFa on social media and show up, but nothing organized like we see from those Patriot Front or Proud Boys. Not even close. You know if they could have found AntiFa operating like that they would have. They sure wanted to bad enough.

Progressive dog

(6,900 posts)
25. Antifa actually exists
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 05:48 PM
Jul 2022
Antifa is a decentralized, leaderless movement composed of loose collections of groups, networks and individuals.
Persistent disinformation campaigns about antifa distort public perception of the movement.
Antifa’s professed purpose is to vigorously oppose fascism. While some extreme actors who claim to be affiliated with antifa do engage in violence or vandalism at rallies and events, this is not the norm.
Because there is no unifying body for antifa, it is impossible to know how many adherents are currently active. Different localities have antifa populations of different strengths, but antifa adherents are also sometimes willing to travel hundreds of miles to oppose a white supremacist event.

https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/who-are-antifa
FBI Director Chris Wray told lawmakers Thursday that antifa is an ideology, not an organization, delivering testimony that puts him at odds with President Donald Trump, who has said he would designate it a terror group.

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-ap-top-news-elections-james-comey-politics-bdd3b6078e9efadcfcd0be4b65f2362e

maxsolomon

(33,284 posts)
27. I've seen Antifa flags with my own eyes.
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 05:59 PM
Jul 2022

If that's proof they exist.

I follow Rose City and Emerald City Antifa on FB. They've gone utterly silent.

Mostly, Antifa is just the same Direct Action/Black Bloc Crusties who are engaging in Anti-Fascist action at that time. At some other time they could be handing out clean needles to the homeless population.

In the PNW, that's a thing that's needed; Fascist Paramilitary orgs are a real thing, and have been for years. They come in to Portland en masse to protest/parade/provoke/disrupt, and they did it regularly during the BLM protests.

Tickle

(2,509 posts)
29. Thank you for being
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 06:12 PM
Jul 2022

truthful here. They do good and bad at times but not acknowledging them makes you look like a liar

maxsolomon

(33,284 posts)
30. I haven't seen them do bad.
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 06:23 PM
Jul 2022

Unless you mean Mike Reinoehl shooting Aaron Danielson in what he claimed was self-defense.

Margaret Aislinn Channon, who set cop cars on fire in Seattle - and has been sent to prison for it - was she Antifa? No indication she was.

Antifa has just become a catch-all phrase for "Far Leftist We Disavow". I don't disavow them.

Tickle

(2,509 posts)
31. I didn't know about
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 06:46 PM
Jul 2022

Mike Reinoehl shooting although I just watched the video. I was talking more about that they do exist. Good bad or indifferent they exist.

LeftInTX

(25,218 posts)
32. It makes us look ignorant and backward LOL
Tue Jul 5, 2022, 06:52 PM
Jul 2022

The most annoying thing is calling the D-Day troops Antifa.

We have the internet and can research topics and we should. That D-Day meme is repeated over and over and over.


Roisin Ni Fiachra

(2,574 posts)
42. Recommend. Fuck fascism. I'm a staunch anti-fascist, and don't know anyone who belongs to
Wed Jul 6, 2022, 09:42 AM
Jul 2022

an organization known as Antifa. My dad wanted to sign up to fight fascism during WWII, but he was an aircraft engineer and the government put him to work building Wildcats.

There is a tiny group of anarchists residing in some major cities who identify as Antifa, but they are insignificant in number relative compared to the hundreds of millions of us who despise fascists and fascism.

My avatar is a knock off an anti-fascist flag.

The Arrows stand for:

No Social Conservatism/Monarchy

No Nazis

No Communists

Three Arrows:

The Three Arrows (German: Drei Pfeile) is a social democratic political symbol associated with the Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD), used in the late history of the Weimar Republic. First conceived for the SPD-dominated Iron Front as a symbol of the social democratic resistance against Nazism in 1932, it became an official symbol of the Party during the November 1932 German federal election, representing opposition towards Nazism, Marxism-Leninism and reactionary conservatism.[1]

Since its inception, the symbol has been used in many different contexts by a variety of anti-fascist, social democratic and democratic socialist organisations.

The Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD) was opposed by both the Nazi Party (NSDAP) and the Communist Party (KPD). In this setting, the SPD organizer Carlo Mierendorff recruited Russian exiled physiologist Sergei Chakhotin as the propagandist of the paramilitary Iron Front, and together they developed propaganda initiatives to counter the NSDAP and the KPD in early 1932. The two launched the Three Arrows as a symbol for the social democrat militancy.[2] The Iron Front was regarded as a "social fascist terror organisation" by the KPD.[3]

Mierendorf and Chakhotin launched the Three Arrows against the Swastika (Dreipfeil gegen Hakenkreuz) campaign.[4] Chakhotin authored a book by the same name.[5] The Three Arrows were thought to represent the struggle of the social democratic movement against reaction (referring to monarchism), communism and fascism.[6][7] On a widely used and publicized SPD election poster for the 6 November 1932 Reichstag elections, the Three Arrows were used to represent opposition to the Communist Party, the monarchist parties, and the Nazi Party, accompanied by the slogan "Against Papen, Hitler, Thälmann".[1][8] The three arrows also represented the three agents of working class strength: political (represented by the SPD), economic (represented by the trade unions) and physical (represented by the Reichsbanner Schwarz-Rot-Gold).[9][10][11] Chakhotin provides an even wider range of meanings, including the three elements of the movement (political/intellectual power, economic force, physical force), the three qualities demanded of fighters (activity, discipline, union), as well as the ideals of the French Revolution (liberté, égalité, fraternité). He also noted that "the figure 3 appears so often in human life, in thoughts, in personal life, and in history, that it has become a sort of 'sacred figure'."[12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Arrows


Some folks spent too much time listening to Rush Limbaugh and watching Fox News, and need to get them out of their heads. Fascists are the most immediate threat and most dangerous clear and present danger to our democracy and the United States Government. Quibbling about the insignificant and semi-mythical Antifa only bolsters the ever growing fascist movement in our country, and gives validity to the pro-fascist lying sack of shit worshipers of the MAGAt King who blame anti-fascists for the J6 Insurrection.

If you are not 100% against fascism, you need to re-examine your heart and soul.
 

Just A Box Of Rain

(5,104 posts)
43. Are you aware that the original German Antifa was the KPD?
Wed Jul 6, 2022, 09:58 AM
Jul 2022

The German Antifa was completely under the control of the Communist Party of German leader Ernst Thälmann, who founded so-called Antifa.

Thälmann declared that the liberal German Social Democrats (the SPD) who used the Three Arrows in your avatar were "social fascists," and most of Antifa's efforts in the 1930 was focused on destroying liberalism, not on bring down Nazis.

It was a tragically stupid move that helped Hitler come to power. This not a movement that any liberal Democrat should romanticise.





Roisin Ni Fiachra

(2,574 posts)
44. That's horseshit. Why are you so actively invested in trashing anti-fascism, and anti-fascists?
Thu Jul 7, 2022, 02:09 PM
Jul 2022

Did you not read this part of my post?

Mierendorf and Chakhotin launched the Three Arrows against the Swastika (Dreipfeil gegen Hakenkreuz) campaign.[4] Chakhotin authored a book by the same name.[5] The Three Arrows were thought to represent the struggle of the social democratic movement against reaction (referring to monarchism), communism and fascism.[6][7] On a widely used and publicized SPD election poster for the 6 November 1932 Reichstag elections, the Three Arrows were used to represent opposition to the Communist Party, the monarchist parties, and the Nazi Party, accompanied by the slogan "Against Papen, Hitler, Thälmann".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Arrows

 

Just A Box Of Rain

(5,104 posts)
45. Did you did not read what I actually wrote?
Thu Jul 7, 2022, 02:18 PM
Jul 2022

The SPD (The German Social Democrats) were (and are) a liberal party in Germany.

The SPD was falsely branded as "social fascists" by the German Communist Party, which controlled Antifa in 1930s Germany.

The SPD were, in fact, the main targets of Antifa in the 1930s, not the Nazis.

Perhaps you should re-read my posts and then consider and apology and a self-delete?

Accusing me of trashing "anti-fascism" is a gross personal insult.

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