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UpInArms

(51,252 posts)
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:07 AM Jul 2022

The Oath Keepers will tell a jury they really believed Donald Trump would turn them into his own, pe

Full title:

The Oath Keepers will tell a jury they really believed Donald Trump would turn them into his own, personal militia on Jan. 6

When nine accused leaders of the Oath Keepers go on trial for seditious conspiracy in Washington, DC, this fall, jurors in the government's first big, Jan. 6 showcase trial will hear a defense argument that sounds little short of crazy.

They'll be told that the far-right extremists believed President Donald Trump would invoke the Insurrection Act as they gathered at the Capitol, 100 strong in their camo-colored tactical gear — and turn them into his own, ultra-loyal federal militia.

… snip …

Reason one: They were an invited security force for rally planners and participants, including Roger Stone, Ali Alexander, Latinos for Trump and Virginia Women for Trump.

Reason two: They were awaiting Trump's orders.

When those orders failed to come, Rhodes' lawyers will argue, the Oath Keepers left the Capitol. They had dinner at Olive Garden, and then collected the weapons and provisions they'd stashed — at the ready but never used — in their rooms at a Comfort Inn in Arlington, VA. Then they went home.


https://www.businessinsider.com/oath-keepers-to-tell-jury-they-believed-trump-would-federalize-them-2022-6
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The Oath Keepers will tell a jury they really believed Donald Trump would turn them into his own, pe (Original Post) UpInArms Jul 2022 OP
Why, that's not "a little short of crazy" at all! Buns_of_Fire Jul 2022 #1
Brownshirts, blackshirts and now in the modern fascist movement...Trump's khakipants! Thomas Hurt Jul 2022 #2
*jazz hands* khakipants *jazz hands* Nevilledog Jul 2022 #60
That's why it was so violent Johnny2X2X Jul 2022 #3
They probably also thought that taking over the Capitol would be easy with Trump at the front. Lonestarblue Jul 2022 #17
You're probably correct Alice Kramden Jul 2022 #40
Yes; You Are Absolutely Right...And wyn borkins Jul 2022 #51
As long as it isn't Mars - Alice Kramden Jul 2022 #53
Would the Capitol police have let Trump in wnylib Jul 2022 #69
He might have led them too Achilles Skye Jul 2022 #76
They expected The Bopper Jul 2022 #61
"They had dinner at Olive Garden" Effete Snob Jul 2022 #4
Oh, that's excellent. Thread win! Efilroft Sul Jul 2022 #9
Ha, ha, ha!!! PatSeg Jul 2022 #11
Well regulated bread sticks. Captain Zero Jul 2022 #30
wait i thought they had tacos samnsara Jul 2022 #36
Proud Boys Deminpenn Jul 2022 #55
I feel that is a crime in and of itself Bristlecone Jul 2022 #37
Indeed Effete Snob Jul 2022 #39
++++++++++++++ not fooled Jul 2022 #44
Hahaha, jokes on them...... aeromanKC Jul 2022 #41
+10 nt reACTIONary Jul 2022 #66
"Latinos for Trump" is a fake organization of one of their kindred spirits Effete Snob Jul 2022 #5
But when they get together with the "Blacks for Trump" ToxMarz Jul 2022 #18
Gonna have to book the whole Olive Garden Effete Snob Jul 2022 #26
Well, Two Tables Anyway ProfessorGAC Jul 2022 #67
Well, less than half of the room...a very small room. Escurumbele Jul 2022 #27
Yup, a bathroom. dixiechiken1 Jul 2022 #29
The Slobfather mentions his groups malaise Jul 2022 #6
He loves to see his monkeys dance underpants Jul 2022 #13
ya'- very bad guy's ! now they are crying about being locked up ! cloudboy07 Jul 2022 #64
In other words Timewas Jul 2022 #7
His own Praetorian Guard. kentuck Jul 2022 #8
They left because federal troops were brought in.They celebrated, thought they'd gotten away with it Walleye Jul 2022 #10
And you know, it might just work as a legitimate defense. I bet they get off. Dang. Biophilic Jul 2022 #12
Nah UpInArms Jul 2022 #14
I'll go with your vote. Biophilic Jul 2022 #15
This is the kind of defense you get in a frat party after midnight. plimsoll Jul 2022 #16
you seen these guy's ? they have never missed a meal! cloudboy07 Jul 2022 #65
Does stupidity exempt you from laws? spanone Jul 2022 #19
Key question & they fail because 1) it is not believable they were that stupid; 2) is no exemption.n Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2022 #22
Knowing what I know about the Oaf Keepers ShazzieB Jul 2022 #43
Yes, under the iokiyar clause. dchill Jul 2022 #24
If it does, these guys can't be touched. Captain Zero Jul 2022 #31
Depends on the judge and jury. SleeplessinSoCal Jul 2022 #42
It always has for rich people. plimsoll Jul 2022 #70
That is one strange article. Wish this trial was broadcast. Raven123 Jul 2022 #20
The "Stand back and stand by" defense. n/t thesquanderer Jul 2022 #21
'I was only following orders' didn't work for nazis at Nuremberg EYESORE 9001 Jul 2022 #23
What a bunch of losers and nitwits LuvJoesPartner Jul 2022 #25
"It wasn't my fault!!!!" Grins Jul 2022 #28
Right they need to turn over a communications Captain Zero Jul 2022 #33
Yup, Trump may finally pay the piper, but I'm not holding my breath. Joinfortmill Jul 2022 #32
If they bothered to recall what happened to the SA in the rise of Nazi Germany, Mr. Scorpio Jul 2022 #34
"Invited security force" Alice Kramden Jul 2022 #35
Recommended. H2O Man Jul 2022 #38
Are they actually going to throw Trump under the bus, though? ShazzieB Jul 2022 #47
Yes. H2O Man Jul 2022 #48
They're going to prison. Demobrat Jul 2022 #71
Brown shirts, black shirts, martial law, etc. people Jul 2022 #45
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm not fooled Jul 2022 #46
Think you are correct. Also worth mentioning Enoki33 Jul 2022 #50
Yes. H2O Man Jul 2022 #52
Bizarre Takket Jul 2022 #49
I hope the prosecutors shoot their defense with holes. LiberalFighter Jul 2022 #54
They should call Chump as a character witness. Hassler Jul 2022 #56
The very reason for the "Oath Keepers" existence is to hate others and cause trouble GoodRaisin Jul 2022 #57
Won't work malaise Jul 2022 #58
Honestly I believe they believed all of those things. They are a delusional collection of people. Gore1FL Jul 2022 #59
So planning the coup, mobilizing for the coup, and participating in the coup... Beartracks Jul 2022 #62
They're pos un-American terrorist rockfordfile Jul 2022 #63
These defense lawyers deserve to be disbarred FakeNoose Jul 2022 #68
So I guess this means that the Secret Service stopped the coup plot ecstatic Jul 2022 #72
They've got it all wrong. The Proud Boys were in line to be Trump's Schutzstaffel. LudwigPastorius Jul 2022 #73
Insurrection Act? czarjak Jul 2022 #74
It's amazing what a group of immature males can do when they get together. Aussie105 Jul 2022 #75
Are the courts so backed up that they are free until fall?? Has Bannon's case been heard yet? I just Evolve Dammit Jul 2022 #77
They wanted to be trumps nazi ss. The Jungle 1 Jul 2022 #78
That's great! Turbineguy Jul 2022 #79

Buns_of_Fire

(17,119 posts)
1. Why, that's not "a little short of crazy" at all!
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:12 AM
Jul 2022

That's full-blown, delusional crazy! (Not that Elmer Rhodes had an excess of marbles to start with.)

Johnny2X2X

(18,744 posts)
3. That's why it was so violent
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:12 AM
Jul 2022

Trump told them, "And I will be with you." So they thought anything they did wouldn't be illegal, they thought the president was giving them a lawful order to murder Democrats and Mike Pence.

Lonestarblue

(9,880 posts)
17. They probably also thought that taking over the Capitol would be easy with Trump at the front.
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:46 AM
Jul 2022

Had Trump led the group, the Capitol police would have let him in, along with all his followers, and they would then have proceeded to commit mayhem while the Secret Service whisked Trump to safety. Members of Congress would have had almost no warning of the mob and the insurrection, and many would have found themselves confronting people who wanted to kill them. Pelosi, Schumer, and Pence probably would have been quickly taken to safety, but we recall those scenes of Pence barely escaping the mob because of the officer who led it away from him.

This might have been the plan all along and would explain why Trump was so angry at being denied going to the Capitol.

wnylib

(21,146 posts)
69. Would the Capitol police have let Trump in
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 07:50 PM
Jul 2022

with a mob? I am doubtful. The mob was angry. Some carried pitchforks.

The Bopper

(180 posts)
61. They expected
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 05:50 PM
Jul 2022

To be successful or they would get a pardon. The fact they “believed” Donnie Dumbazz really cared show they really willingly were taken in and would have done anything for him. Cults are like that.

 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
4. "They had dinner at Olive Garden"
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:14 AM
Jul 2022

A hearty dinner being necessary for the drive back home, the right to receive and eat endless breadsticks shall not be infringed.

samnsara

(17,570 posts)
36. wait i thought they had tacos
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 11:12 AM
Jul 2022

...according to the film maker with them..maybe they ditched him and they all went and had soup, salad and breadsticks

not fooled

(5,791 posts)
44. ++++++++++++++
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 11:46 AM
Jul 2022

Once I was given a gift card to Olive Garden. Some of the worst food I've ever eaten, right down there with "Mexican" food from a restaurant in Oklahoma City.

 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
5. "Latinos for Trump" is a fake organization of one of their kindred spirits
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:17 AM
Jul 2022

"Latinos for Trump" consists of something like three or four people - two of whom were involved in transporting weapons to the vicinity of the Philadelphia Convention Center during the ballot count in Pennsylvania.

ProfessorGAC

(64,419 posts)
67. Well, Two Tables Anyway
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 07:36 PM
Jul 2022

Of course, since lots of people wouldn't want to eat next to armed losers, the whole place might just be available.

underpants

(182,274 posts)
13. He loves to see his monkeys dance
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:41 AM
Jul 2022

These stories remind back in my dope smoking days. The conversation would start somewhere and end up in a whole other place fueled by inside jokes and random “ideas”.

These people must have spent hours spinning themselves into wild Nazi fantasies.

Timewas

(2,174 posts)
7. In other words
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:21 AM
Jul 2022

we were there to take over the government and make t-rump the dictator...With and army of 100..LOL

UpInArms

(51,252 posts)
14. Nah
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:41 AM
Jul 2022

Sedition is sedition… just because someone believes something doesn’t make it true … or legal.

plimsoll

(1,664 posts)
16. This is the kind of defense you get in a frat party after midnight.
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:45 AM
Jul 2022

Then we tell the judge that we didn't think it would be seditious conspiracy because we believed the President would stage a coup to support us.

ShazzieB

(15,953 posts)
43. Knowing what I know about the Oaf Keepers
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 11:46 AM
Jul 2022

I can easily believe they were and are that stupid. But convincing a jury is another matter.

And I agree that stupidity definitely does not = an exemption from obeying the law!

SleeplessinSoCal

(8,994 posts)
42. Depends on the judge and jury.
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 11:29 AM
Jul 2022

These days the law is merely a suggestion. We've gone from a "Nation of Laws" to Failed State in the blink of an eye.

EYESORE 9001

(25,812 posts)
23. 'I was only following orders' didn't work for nazis at Nuremberg
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:56 AM
Jul 2022

and it fucking well better not work for these traitorous oaf creepers either.

Grins

(7,134 posts)
28. "It wasn't my fault!!!!"
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 10:38 AM
Jul 2022
"It wasn't my fault!!! It was Trump!"

And that's why they had those spiffy shirts and hats, bought more defensive/offensive gear, trained, did reconnaissance, set up comm, and executed.

I can accept this - if they directly implicate Trump.

"It wasn't my fault, it's the way the Insurrection act was WRITTEN!"

As if any of these idiots read a word of the Act! (Rhodes excepted.)

Video clip for the NRA Convention in Houston after the slaughter of 4th graders. Man-in-the-street type interviews:

Interviewer says the 2nd Amend. is all of ONE sentence - "Say it."
An astonishing number of members could NOT.
All they could mutter was "keep and bear arms."
And then they laughed at their own stew-pud!

Captain Zero

(6,714 posts)
33. Right they need to turn over a communications
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 11:02 AM
Jul 2022

they had directly or indirectly with Trump, including their communications with the group at the Willard Hotel which should include but is not limited to: Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Rudy, Ginny, Stephen Miller and that former General Traitor. We need it all.

Mr. Scorpio

(73,626 posts)
34. If they bothered to recall what happened to the SA in the rise of Nazi Germany,
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 11:09 AM
Jul 2022

They might have been somewhat less enthusiastic to score that militia gig.

H2O Man

(73,321 posts)
38. Recommended.
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 11:16 AM
Jul 2022

That is correct -- they had been led to believe that Trump would declare martial law, and empower them to "keep the peace." This will also come out in one of the next J6 hearings.

ShazzieB

(15,953 posts)
47. Are they actually going to throw Trump under the bus, though?
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 11:55 AM
Jul 2022

I mean, that would be delightful, and that's what this defense sounds like. If they've really gone fom being devoted sycophants to butthurt finger pointers, this trial is going to be very entertaining.

Demobrat

(8,915 posts)
71. They're going to prison.
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:15 PM
Jul 2022

He’s sitting fat and happy on the beach, stuffing his face with burgers. That might piss some of them off a little.

people

(612 posts)
45. Brown shirts, black shirts, martial law, etc.
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 11:50 AM
Jul 2022

We really don't know exactly what Trump intended to do. We know he wanted to lead them into the capitol but that's about the limit of what we know. Are their beliefs crazy? None of us knows that yet and perhaps we never will. And even if their beliefs were sincere and even if what they believed was actually true, it is no defense to their actions. These are stupid, angry, racist people with visions of glory.

not fooled

(5,791 posts)
46. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 11:54 AM
Jul 2022

Even though these guys aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer, they probably weren't delusional enough to act based only on their fantasies. Sounds as though they received some sort of specific communication to convince them that they would become red don's personal militia. Did someone from red don's maladministration or otherwise in an official position within the federal government give them that information?

Enoki33

(1,584 posts)
50. Think you are correct. Also worth mentioning
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 12:07 PM
Jul 2022

these domestic terrorists are now even more dangerous because of what the failed insurrection has taught them. Many are ex military and police with solid training and organizational skills. And they have been emboldened.

H2O Man

(73,321 posts)
52. Yes.
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 12:16 PM
Jul 2022

They were led to believe this by three individuals -- Flynn, Bannon, and Stone -- who were in close communication with Meadows right up to the night before the insurrection. This will be documented in a J6 hearing this month.

Takket

(21,424 posts)
49. Bizarre
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 11:59 AM
Jul 2022

What world is this where you try to overthrow the US government and when it doesn’t work out, you go have dinner at the Olive Garden.

I mean, what did they say when the waitperson asked how their day was going? “Oh not good. Tried to commit insurrection and it didn’t work out. Hey how is the lasagna?”

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!

LiberalFighter

(50,499 posts)
54. I hope the prosecutors shoot their defense with holes.
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 02:19 PM
Jul 2022

Considering that them as private militia was not approved legislatively. And the insurrectionist act was intended to stop them. Not create them.

GoodRaisin

(8,885 posts)
57. The very reason for the "Oath Keepers" existence is to hate others and cause trouble
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 05:00 PM
Jul 2022

wherever they go. Hope the jury will keep that point in mind as they deliberate.

Gore1FL

(21,030 posts)
59. Honestly I believe they believed all of those things. They are a delusional collection of people.
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 05:35 PM
Jul 2022

I am not sure how that excuses them premeditatively assaulting Police and invading and rioting in the Capitol, all while trying to overthrow the government of the United States.

Beartracks

(12,761 posts)
62. So planning the coup, mobilizing for the coup, and participating in the coup...
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 06:07 PM
Jul 2022

... are supposedly okay, they say, just because the coup failed? That sounds like the driver of a get-away car saying he's innocent because the *real* bank robber never showed up with the loot.

And that "stashed but never used" bit seems really important to rightwing defenders. Like Hannity's "none of the 'tourists' fired their weapons in the capitol" schtick.

=============

FakeNoose

(32,349 posts)
68. These defense lawyers deserve to be disbarred
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 07:46 PM
Jul 2022

This is malpractice, and they're obviously grasping at straws.



ecstatic

(32,566 posts)
72. So I guess this means that the Secret Service stopped the coup plot
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:18 PM
Jul 2022

by taking whiney baby tfg home. Thank goodness. Wow.

LudwigPastorius

(8,944 posts)
73. They've got it all wrong. The Proud Boys were in line to be Trump's Schutzstaffel.
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:37 PM
Jul 2022

The Oath Keepers were just the Prom Queen runners up.

Aussie105

(5,211 posts)
75. It's amazing what a group of immature males can do when they get together.
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 10:51 PM
Jul 2022

Throw out individual standards of decency and morality (if they had any to start with) out the window for group-think.
Normal laws and consequences just don't exist to them.

'Trump made me do it' and 'the rest of the group said it was OK', add in 'We will be seen as heroes!', and you have a bunch of thugs who will believe anything and do anything.

Easy to explain Jan 6.

The clean-up and preventing it from happening again, well, that's a much harder thing.



Evolve Dammit

(16,632 posts)
77. Are the courts so backed up that they are free until fall?? Has Bannon's case been heard yet? I just
Sat Jul 2, 2022, 06:40 AM
Jul 2022

Served on a Grand Jury and advanced cases (indictments) that were crimes committed one to three months prior?

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