HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Thomas claims that COVID ...

Thu Jun 30, 2022, 10:57 AM

Thomas claims that COVID vaccines were developed with the use of "aborted children."




Mark Joseph Stern @mjs_DC

In his dissent, Thomas claims that COVID vaccines were developed with the use of "aborted children." https://supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/21-1143_3f14.pdf

9:53 AM · Jun 30, 2022


ALSO




Brooke Binkowski @brooklynmarie

This is a heavily weaponized antisemitic narrative that has no basis in reality. It's part of the reworked Doctor's Plot conspiracy theory that the far right has taken to with such enthusiasm. People who put disinformation into the record have no business on the Supreme Court.

AND

Brooke Binkowski @brooklynmarie

Here's my article on this particular conspiracy theory.

https://www.truthorfiction.com/anti-vaccine-disinformation-campaign-echoes-doctors-plot-rhetoric/


...The darkly speculative narratives of shadowy medical practitioners lying to the public so that they can do nonspecific (but always evil and frightening) things is reminiscent of the Soviet “Doctor’s Plot” of 1953, detailed here in a 2002 article in BMJ:

In general [Joseph] Stalin severely mistrusted doctors—whatever their nationality. In his memoirs Dmitri Shostakovich tells the tale of Vladimir Bekhterev, a world renowned psychiatrist who at 70 was summoned to assess Stalin’s mental condition.9 The good doctor described him as ill, perhaps even paranoid. And how right he was. Bekhterev died immediately afterwards—poisoned by Stalin.

But Stalin’s special hatred was reserved for Jewish doctors. Although in the last decades of Tsarist rule Jews were restricted from owning land and excluded from most other professions, they had indeed entered medicine in numbers far out of proportion to their small percentage in the overall population.6 So when Stalin decided to resolve the Soviet Union’s “Jewish problem,” it made perfect sense to open the campaign with a show trial against a group of (mainly Jewish) doctors who were often branded “Zionists” or agents of the “Joint” (an international Jewish charitable organisation).

19 replies, 1297 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread

Response to blogslug (Original post)

Thu Jun 30, 2022, 11:02 AM

1. Similar to Thomas, I haven't done any research on that question

Maybe someone can enlighten me on what actual science he is objecting to.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BootinUp (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 30, 2022, 11:10 AM

4. Let me try - people correct me

J&J used a cell line derived from a miscarriage (not abortion) during an early stage of general coronavirus vaccine development. That work was abandoned and they (and everyone else) use a cell line that is not based on fetal tissue.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lithos (Reply #4)

Thu Jun 30, 2022, 11:15 AM

6. And correct me if I'm wrong, but a "cell line" means the cells have been naturally dividing

over an unnaturally long time span, yes?

Shouldn't he have law clerks and research assistants who can catch and correct major factual errors like this?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bucky (Reply #6)

Thu Jun 30, 2022, 11:20 AM

9. That is my understanding

Much like what happened to the cell line from Henrietta Lacks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bucky (Reply #6)

Thu Jun 30, 2022, 08:31 PM

17. They are "immortal" cell lines. The most well-known line is HEK. It is distantly derived...

...from aborted fetal tissue in the '60s. That's how old these cell lines are. They are now so far distant from the original tissue culture that you can't even say they're human anymore. These cell lines (HEK and others) have been used in nearly every major advance in medicine in the last 50 years. HEK and similar cell lines are used in labs absolutely everywhere, everyday, for more things than you can imagine.

These antivaxxers--all of them--are arguing and acting in bad faith.

Here's an example of a health care system that got serious about firing them:

https://katv.com/news/local/conway-regional-ceo-says-covid-19-religious-exemption-isnt-an-attempt-to-shame-employees


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to blogslug (Original post)

Thu Jun 30, 2022, 11:02 AM

2. That sounds very "Q-ish" to me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to blogslug (Original post)

Thu Jun 30, 2022, 11:05 AM

3. Aborted children, Clarence?

Wouldn't that be outright murder? Or do you mean to say aborted fetuses? I know that your unshakable faith doesn't do nuance or shades of meaning or the standard-issue messiness of life as it's actually lived, but outside your extremely tiny bubble words mean things to the rest of us.

Does your opinion hold up when it's based on falsehoods?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gratuitous (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 30, 2022, 11:12 AM

5. Clarence has lost the ability to adequately reason

Whether it is based on senescence or just a persistent inability to reason and distinguish truth from fiction. Either way it shows that he is unfit for the Court where you have to be able to work through high complicated material.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to blogslug (Original post)

Thu Jun 30, 2022, 11:15 AM

7. Some commonly used vaccines have their origin in cell lines that were originally developed

from fetal cells.

Fetal cell lines are cells that grow in a laboratory. They descend from cells taken from abortions in the 1970s and 1980s.

Those individual cells from the 1970s and 1980s have since multiplied into many new cells over the past four or five decades, creating the fetal cell lines I mentioned above. Current fetal cell lines are thousands of generations removed from the original fetal tissue. They do not contain any tissue from a fetus.

Vaccine makers may use these fetal cell lines during the following two phases:

Research and development
Production and manufacturing
When it comes to the Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines, fetal cell line HEK 293 was used during the research and development phase. All HEK 293 cells are descended from tissue taken from a 1973 abortion that took place in the Netherlands. Using fetal cell lines to test the effectiveness and safety of medications is common practice, because they provide a consistent and well-documented standard.

For the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, fetal cell lines were used in the production and manufacturing stage. To make the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, scientists infect PER.C6 fetal cell lines to grow the adenovirus vector. All PER.C6 cells used to manufacture the Johnson & Johnson vaccine are descended from tissue taken from a 1985 abortion that took place in the Netherlands. This cell line is used because it is a well-studied industry standard for safe and reliable production of viral vector vaccines.

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-do-the-covid-19-vaccines-contain-aborted-fetal-cells


Vaccines do not contain aborted fetal cells.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to milestogo (Reply #7)

Thu Jun 30, 2022, 11:22 AM

11. I would like to suggest one small change

They come from tissue obtained from a D&C. I know one cell line (J&J's) came from a miscarriage, not from an "abortion".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lithos (Reply #11)

Thu Jun 30, 2022, 11:23 AM

12. Thanks.

Of course, the Thomases would probably oppose it anyway.

Edit: I have a Catholic friend who would not get vaccinated for this reason. I provided her with info on the vaccines, but she is so averse she just wouldn't do it. She is elderly. She got Covid, but fortunately it was a mild case. I think she'd rather die than be associated with abortion in any way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to milestogo (Reply #12)

Thu Jun 30, 2022, 11:27 AM

13. Was actually wrong - confused

I was basing my knowledge on the following document and confused PER.C6 and HEK-293

https://www.health.nd.gov/sites/www/files/documents/COVID%20Vaccine%20Page/COVID-19_Vaccine_Fetal_Cell_Handout.pdf

The fetal cell lines being used to test or manufacture the COVID-19 vaccines are from two
sources:
● HEK-293: A kidney cell line that was isolated from a fetus in 1973 (undisclosed origin,
from either a spontaneous miscarriage or an elective abortion)
● PER.C6: A retinal cell line that was isolated from an aborted fetus in 1985


***

The mRNA COVID-19 vaccines produced by Pfizer and Moderna do not require the use of any
fetal cell cultures in order to manufacture (produce) the vaccine.


***

The non-replicating viral vector vaccine produced by Johnson & Johnson did require the use of
fetal cell cultures, specifically PER.C6, in order to produce and manufacture the vaccine.
The Catholic Church and the Southern Baptist Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission have both
stated that receiving a COVID-19 vaccine that required fetal cell lines for production or
manufacture is morally acceptable. The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops goes further and
has stated: “receiving a COVID-19 vaccine ought to be understood as an act of charity toward
the other members of our community. In this way, being vaccinated safely against COVID-19
should be considered an act of love of our neighbor and part of our moral responsibility for the
common good...Given the urgency of this crisis, the lack of available alternative vaccines, and the
fact that the connection between an abortion that occurred decades ago and receiving a vaccine
produced today is remote, inoculation with the new COVID-19 vaccines in these circumstances
can be morally justified.”

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lithos (Reply #13)

Thu Jun 30, 2022, 11:32 AM

14. That sounds right

When I was talking to my Catholic friend I read the documents and informed her that she could get J&J or Moderna with no issues but she would not.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to milestogo (Reply #12)

Thu Jun 30, 2022, 08:43 PM

19. Her own Pope told people like her to get a life. She can look it up; she doesn't have to believe...

...anyone else. The Catholic Church, under the principle of "double effect", recommends that all Catholics who can get vaccinated do so. Pope Francis is vaccinated. He also gave an order that there be no religious exemptions given for Covid vaccines. Unfortunately, the Pope has a few renegade bishops who have disobeyed the order.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to milestogo (Reply #7)

Thu Jun 30, 2022, 08:37 PM

18. Some of the cell lines go back even further, to the 1960s.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to blogslug (Original post)

Thu Jun 30, 2022, 11:15 AM

8. Perhaps it's time

for uncle clarence’s mental health to be called into question …


✌🏻

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to blogslug (Original post)

Thu Jun 30, 2022, 11:21 AM

10. Fuck off with that Q Anon bullshit, Clarence. You're an adult. Act like one.

Oh wait, that's never going to happen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to blogslug (Original post)

Thu Jun 30, 2022, 11:38 AM

15. Utterly unsurprising

This has been the RTL-extremist objection to the vaccines all along - when multiple everyday drugs are tested using the exact same cell lines.

Tylenol. Preparation H. Fucking TUMS.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210918/some-medications-also-tied-to-religious-vaccine-exemption

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to blogslug (Original post)

Thu Jun 30, 2022, 07:32 PM

16. Thomas reminds everyone just how stupid he is.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread