A 1850 map of slave and slave friendly states.

[moobu2]

change the green and olive (slave states) to red and the rest (free states) blue and it could look like an up to date electoral map.

[nichomachus]

1. Pretty much tells you all you need to know n/t

[Skidmore]

2. Great minds and all that.

I was just thinking this when MSNBC showed the current electoral map a little while ago. I still hold that we are constantly refighting the Civil War, something that was not resolved when the fighting ceased.

[littlemissmartypants]

7. IMHO women don't fare too well in the south either...

Ignorance and retrograde.

[moobu2]

12. I saw the MSNBC segment earlier too.

I made a post about it a while back along with a map of more religious states and less and there seems to be an association. If there isn't it's one hell of a coincidence.

[MissMarple]

39. Bingo, Skidmore

The cultural and religious differences have roots in the beginning with the colonies. We have a long way to go, much to overcome. But I think it will happen.

[quinnox]

3. Hmm, and what do all those states have in common?

I wonder...better not say it because some folks who live there might get highly offended, because today its made so much progress and is such a liberal paradise..

[NoOneMan]

4. vampires

Just saw a documentary about it

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

31. LOL!

I read the book, too!

[LongTomH]

99. Better vampires than Republicans!!!!!

[Hugabear]

34. They all hate black people

We get it. The South is racist. Racism doesn't exist outside of the South.

[quinnox]

47. I was going for that they are all in the South

Which interestingly, is mostly solid Republican territory, and not exactly progressive as a whole in their politics. That is what my question was meant to allude to.

[Neoma]

78. I've met Northern racists.

It exists everywhere really. Even Canada.

[4th law of robotics]

80. Doesn't California have the highest number of recognized hate groups in the country?

[dixiegrrrrl]

66. And EVERYBODY in the South is a racist redneck

haven't you heard?
I have heard. Plenty of times. On DU.

[quinnox]

67. well, never heard that from me

Because that would be wrong.

[leeroysphitz]

91. Not all southerners are racist, homophobic bigots. Just the people they elect. n/t

[dixiegrrrrl]

101. So the Dems we elect down here are "racist, homophobic bigots".

Guess I should just not vote for anyone then.

[4th law of robotics]

109. Where were Clinton, gore, and carter from?

[Jamastiene]

113. And we are all the scum of the Earth too.

It is always the south's fault, no matter what. Never mind all those solid, and I mean SOLID, red states in the center of the country. All southerners are bad people. We hear this a lot on DU. We actually never hear the end of it on DU. We are ignorant, racist, scum of the Earth, not worthy of the oxygen we are breathing, and anytime an election goes to the Republicans, it is ALWAYS our fault.

[Skip Intro]

120. Something many would like to believe.

An often stated falsehood that makes some people feel superior and enlightened when repeating it on the internet.

Hell, some DUers run around calling other DUers racist on a regular basis.

Like a dog chasing his own tail, or something.

[Jamastiene]

114. A damned lot of Democrats that are sick and tired of being belittled by snobbish people on DU. n/t

[Skip Intro]

121. +100. nt

[littlemissmartypants]

5. Very astute

do you have a link?

[Journeyman]

9. Yes, here a link to a political map of 1850s America. . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021678939

[moobu2]

10. Here's one from the Library of Congress

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/african/afam007.html

[littlemissmartypants]

15. Thank

you.

[Recursion]

6. Not just that! AZ was pro-confederate and NM was pro-union. (nt)

[ChazII]

46. There was even a small

battle near Tucson - the south won I think.

[moobu2]

8. Here's another map of states

Showing a little different configuration showing the Oregon, Washington and Minnesota Territories as free territories. It actualy fits the current electoral map a little better.

[marions ghost]

14. 2010 Election map county by county

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/25/election-map-presidential-race-electoral-college_n_1452936.html

[littlemissmartypants]

16. I'm in blue!!!

Thank you!!!

[Jamastiene]

111. I notice that throughout the mid-Atlantic states,

there are large pockets of blue. Whereas, in a lot of the western states and states in the middle of America, there is hardly any blue at all. In some states, no blue at all shows up. But, it is always the southeast's fault anyhow. Always! Even us Democrats in southeastern states are less than human, and horrible people, to boot, right? We are the scum of the Earth. Got it!

[marions ghost]

119. I hear ya Jamastiene

there's a whole lot of racism coming out in this election, oozing out everywhere like a big pustule--not just in the South. People are rightfully angry to see it. But then they look for blame and bash the South to discharge their anger about it. Talk about bigotry. But they don't see it that way. Makes 'em feel better.

Anyway your anger's justified IMO. their projection. We know who we are.

Yeah show people the purple county-by-county map. That's the truth of it.

[marions ghost]

20. 2008 Presidential Election

This an even better one. Whole lotta purple out there. This is the real story.

[Hugabear]

35. Blue in the South, and Red in the Northeast? That's a damned lie

At least according to the anti-South propaganda that's paraded here on DU on a regular basis

[marions ghost]

43. Yep ah rekkin some o them got some blamin to do....

Them cranky types sure wanna play the Red South--Blue North game today .........
All I can see is purple on the Twenty-first Century game board so ah rekkin they's cheatin' a little bit

[hifiguy]

21. The Minnesota Territory was definitely Free

and sent a lot of soldiers into the Union Army.

[upaloopa]

11. Just for the record, some Native Americans were

slaves in just about every state.

[Ikonoklast]

40. And some held slaves themselves.

Just for the record.

[upaloopa]

51. Yes very true. One of the reasons to go to war with other tribes

was to capture slaves.

[jtuck004]

105. Just to help complete that record, it wasn't based on the racism that developed in the South.

The indigenous people used people as slaves that they, typically, fought and won over.

When the Europeans arrived, they developed racism to a high art form, then used to keep people in servitude when "slavery" became less fashionable. Still do, btw.

Thus, the accurate assertion that there were already slaves becomes somewhat of a straw man, sometimes brought up to justify European behavior that was qualitatively different.

[aaaaaa5a]

13. If you put together states based on % of adults with college degrees.

it would look very much like your map.

[quinnox]

18. I believe the South is on the bottom in all sorts of categories

having to do with quality of living, last time I checked. But once again, this is a very uncomfortable fact for some folks.

[moobu2]

41. Look at this too

Averaged freshman graduation rate for public high school students, by state or jurisdiction: School year 2008-09"

[Lex]

37. see this

Top 10 metro areas, by proportion of adults 25 and older with a Bachelor's degree or above

1 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV, 46.8 percent
2 Bridgeport, CT, 43.8 percent
3 San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA, 43.5 percent
4 San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA, 43.4 percent
5 Boston-Cambridge, MA-NH, 41.9 percent
6 Raleigh, NC, 41.5 percent
7 Madison, WI, 39.8 percent
8 Austin, TX, 38.2 percent
9 Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN-WI, 37.6 percent
10 Denver-Aurora, CO, 37.5 percent

Bottom 10 metro areas, by proportion of adults 25 and older with a Bachelor's degree or above

91 Scranton, PA, 21 percent
92 El Paso, TX, 19.6 percent
93 Youngstown, OH-PA, 19.1 percent
94 Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA, 19 percent
95 Fresno, CA, 18.9 percent
96 Lakeland, FL, 18.7 percent
97 Stockton, CA, 15.6 percent
98 McAllen, TX, 15.1 percent
99 Modesto, CA, 15.1 percent
100 Bakersfield, CA, 14.7 percent

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-6918307.html

[moobu2]

44. breaking it down to metro area statistics don't really help.

To get an idea of how the individual state policies effect it's population, it would be more helpful to look at the statewide statistics. Individual metro area education statistics might be effected by influx of immigrants for example that would reflect those statistics downward, or large clusters of high-tech companies that would cause the opposite.

[dixiegrrrrl]

71. Exactly what I was thinking.

However, this college educated,white woman found a job/career in the South when the rest of the country was in a recession and not hiring.
And found the cost of living low enough to save up for retirement, and to buy a very nice house at half the cost elsewhere.

So folks here can bash the South all they want to.
It's kinda like when I lived in Seattle, we encouraged people to talk about ALL the rain and clouds and gloom. Kept the furrniners out, don'tcha see?

[KamaAina]

69. That is really shocking to see Bakersfield and Modesto at the very bottom

both have campuses of California State University in or nearby. CSU is generally open to anyone in the top 30 percent of his/her high school class, and until quite recently, the tuition was affordable (thanks, Schwarzenegger! ).

[Jamastiene]

115. Don't you just love the south bashing on DU?

No matter what facts you give them, you will always be pushed aside and called ignorant, racist, Republican voting scum, no matter what. I despise snobbishness, but DU appears to be full of it with these south bashing threads. They show their true colors in these threads.

[barnabas63]

17. what's the green mean? nt

[moobu2]

19. They called those area's "open to slavery" n/t

[bvar22]

22. Not really.

Here is a precinct map based on percentages of the vote in 2008 that gives a more honest picture.


The Winner-Take-All Red vs Blue maps are misleading and divisive.
After all, Michele Bachmann is from Minnesota.
Those binary maps, and the one you posted, tend to lead shallow thinkers to the conclusion that some areas of the US should be abandoned.

The divide in our nation could be better generalized as Rural vs Urban,
and many areas of The South, with some leadership, work and money from the Democratic Party,
could be flipped from Red to Blue.


--bvar22 & Strakraven
Turing The South Blue one vote at a time

[moobu2]

24. I understand your point but

We don't have any county or precinct maps from 1850 to compare which counties favored slavery and which didn't.

We elect presidents from the state level, and they passed slave laws from the state level, so it makes more sense to compare state and territory political maps to me.

[bvar22]

75. "makes more sense"... for what possible purpose?

What is it you are trying to prove?

[marions ghost]

27. Yes the divide is more Rural vs Urban--

Those who wanna play "red vs blue" -- have only really got Vermont vs Kansas to pigeonhole.

[Selatius]

28. Be that as it may, presidential elections are decided by electoral votes, not popular votes.

While the "America Is Purple" map is instructive as far as getting a better gauge of voter sentiment in the previous election cycle and could be used as a bridge over regional or state differences to show we're a lot closer than what it appears with respect to where people lay on politics, it's really of no consequence as far as the Electoral College and the presidency goes. That is the nature of first-past-the-post and winner-take-all formats.

This map has far more utility in the arena of congressional or senatorial races than it does with the White House, especially if the effort to defeat unfair gerrymandering is vigorous and thorough. Texas may be a lot more blue than what it appears at the surface, but unless gerrymandering is reversed in that state, for instance, Republicans will still take the majority of seats in Texas' share of seats in the US House.

[PotatoChip]

97. The south is really not all that rural.

While I'm sure there are pockets of rural areas, the south appears to be about average in relation to the rest of the country population wise.

Population density map: (people per square mile)


That said, I agree with the points that you and others are making. It is not only unproductive, but also unfair to blame any one region alone.

There are bigoted right wingers in all parts of the country. Heck, I live in a blue state, but seem to be surrounded by a sea of red in my town.

[Jamastiene]

116. I live in one of those solid blue rural areas of NC.

Many of these south bashers refuse to hear it and just belittle us anyhow. Between the transphobic, homophobic, anti-Semitic, and south bashing on DU, I rarely come here any more. Gee, I wonder why.

[Bluenorthwest]

23. All of those green States and territories are not 'slave states. Oregon never had

slavery, entered the Union as a free State in the late 1850s.. Washington State, also not a slave state. Many of those green areas were, in 1850, unorganized terriroties, not States or even official territories. Many if not all of them were always free States. Minnesota was never a slave state....

[moobu2]

25. The map doesn't say Minnesota was a slave state.

it indicates that it was a slave friendly state. Maybe it had some sort of law allowing a person from a slave state to recover a runaway slave, or some such, so it was included in the open to slavery category. not sure. But the map isn't saying it was a slave state.

[Bluenorthwest]

26. The entire nation came under 'runaway slave laws'. 'Recovery' of human chattle in

northern free states was one of the motivators for the Civil War when it came. Look it up. Here is a wiki w/ maps that change over time, regarding free and slave states.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_and_free_states

The terminology is confusing you. There was nothing more 'slave friendly' about Minnesota than New York. The green areas on that map, at that time, are simply legally unorganized territories. Many of them were extremely abolishionist. Some at the time may have referred to them as 'open to slavery' because the issue was unsettled in those areas. They were open to either stance, as there was no government in place to take either stance and make it the law. Open, as in 'the issue is open'. Not 'open' as in 'the people there sort of dig it'.

[moobu2]

32. The map looks like it has to do with the repeal of the Missouri Compromise

Click on the link if you're interested. I knew about the Federal law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas%E2%80%93Nebraska_Act

[Spike89]

59. Actually, Oregon was a compromise state admitted in 1859

It is true that Oregon was never a slave state, but it wasn't a true "free" state either. The state had a ridiculous "sunset" law making it legal to be black only during the day time. The thinking was that if there are no black people, they didn't need to choose sides. I've lived in Oregon all but a few years and love the state, but it has a racist past as deep as most. The KKK flourished here, the sunset laws weren't repealed until well into the 20th century (there were also KKK-inspired laws against Catholics). There was even a giant lighted cross sitting over the city of Eugene (a liberal bastion in Oregon) that had obvious KKK roots. Despite repeated court challenges, the cross survived from the 1930s into the 21st Century...it now sits on a local church's property.

To be totally honest, had Oregon been forced to actually choose back in the mid 1800s...it probably would have gone with the slave states, but it would have been close.

[KamaAina]

73. Then there was Vanport, once the second-largest city in Oregon

What? You've never heard of Vanport? That's because it was destroyed in a flood shortly after World War II, with even less fanfare than New Orleans after Katrina.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanport_City,_Oregon

Vanport City was a hastily constructed city of public housing located in Multnomah County, Oregon, United States, between the contemporary Portland city boundary and the Columbia River. It is currently the site of Delta Park and the Portland International Raceway. It was constructed in 1943 to house the workers at the wartime Kaiser Shipyards in Portland and Vancouver, Washington. Vanport was home to 40,000 people, about 40 percent of them African-American, making it Oregon's second-largest city at the time, and the largest public housing project in the nation. After the war, Vanport lost more than half of its population, dropping to 18,500, as many war time workers left the area. But, there was also an influx of returning World War II veterans. In order to attract veterans and their families, the Housing Authority of Portland (HAP) opened Vanport College. The college enrolled 1,924 students its first year.

Vanport was dramatically destroyed at 4:05 p.m. on May 30, 1948, when a 200-foot (61 m) section of the dike holding back the Columbia River collapsed during a flood, killing 15. The city was underwater by nightfall leaving its inhabitants homeless. The Vanport Extension Center refused to close after this disaster and quickly reopened in downtown Portland. Dubbed by a national magazine "The College that Wouldn't Die," it became present-day Portland State University.

The Vanport Flood parallels the more recent Hurricane Katrina disaster in New Orleans. In both cases, public officials led the population to believe that the damage would be slight, and in both cases the government response to the disaster was harshly criticized. Many have attributed the poor response, in both cases, to racist attitudes on the part of officials, who allegedly neglected to respond appropriately to the destruction of predominately black communities. However, many dispute the role of racism, pointing to the transformation of Vanport by the influx of World War II veterans and their families and official commitment to the area shown by the establishment at Vanport of the only state college in the greater Portland metropolitan area.

[Spike89]

77. In many ways the slave/free issue does mirror the dem/repub maps

Not really in the way the OP shows though. There certainly were no bright lines showing racism/racism-free states. Like the purple maps, racism was diffused throughout the country.

[littlemissmartypants]

29. . . . trick or treat?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=485344924831412&set=a.130129497019625.14089.129812717051303&type=1&theater

[enlightenment]

30. Not really.

Given that the 'green state' on this map are not states at all, but territories. As such - and considering that all of the states that would evolve from that green area would be free states (Nevada, for example, became a state 148 years ago today - and was granted statehood in order to provide 'free' votes for Lincoln's reelection) - your comparison isn't all that accurate.

[Lex]

33. Rural versus city, more generally.

Looks like this:

[moobu2]

36. I was making the point comparing state and territory boundaries

not precinct or county boundaries. We don't have a similar county map from the slave era to compare. We do have state and territory maps and it's pretty obvious there's a persistent pattern.

[Lex]

38. we have better more detailed maps (with more specific information) now

but if your map makes you happy with your generalizations, so be it

[moobu2]

42. Your maps aren't relevant to the issue. n/t

[marions ghost]

55. Sure they are -- since

things have changed.

Talk about the Rural v Urban --split re Blue /Red.

It's more relevant.

[moobu2]

57. No it isn't.

It's like comparing the proverbial apples to oranges thing. I was talking about states not precincts or counties or metro areas or whatever. I was comparing the political boundaries of the states in 1850 to the political boundaries of the states in the 21st century. (apples to apples).

[marions ghost]

65. well you just keep on talking about your media-generated

!!! WAR BETWEEN THE RED AND THE BLUE STATES !!!! ---re."political boundaries".....

And I'll keep on laughing

This isn't a serious thread about the South. It's just another excuse to bash (I know, it's so much fun I don't blame you for being bored enough to get into it).

Anyway gotta go need to go do some Punkin Chunkin (I'm sure you understand...)

[quinnox]

49. Interesting deflection

not sure what it has to do with the OP though. (The fact that the South were the slave states and remain a backwards region in terms of their politics today, dragging the United States down)

[Lex]

50. Here let me explain it. The South is not monolithic in terms of being "backwards." NC went blue

in 2008, and the rest of the South has heavily blue counties.

Despite the fact that you want to make sweeping generalizations about the South, it's just clearly not true, even when an old map is dragged out to show the slave states.

[marions ghost]

52. There are "backward regions"

all over the US. You don't need me to name them. What's your point?

[quinnox]

53. I'd say pound for pound, there is a hell of a lot more of them in the South as a region

as a whole. Sorry, but I'm kinda confused by you and others trying to obscure this issue. Are you saying the South is actually a bastion of progressivism or something.

[Lex]

54. Really? You think ANYone is saying the South is a "bastion of progressivism"?

This is what you gleaned from the discussion?

smh

[quinnox]

56. It's hard to tell

what you guys are trying to say, other than running away from the truth regarding the South and its disgusting history that is.

[marions ghost]

60. Whaddya want us to flagellate ourselves?

Plenty of us are blue & voting blue. And from the South. I know it shocks ya.

I don't see any right wingers "runnin' away from the truth" around here I DO see em hanging Obama (as a chair) up there in Minnesota. I guess Laura Mulholland must have some Southern blood we can hate in her somewhere:


-------

Laura Mulholland, Minnesota Woman, Impales Chair With Bayonet, 'Lynches' It In Anti-Obama Display
A southwest Rochester woman said she doesn’t see any problem with a politically oriented display in her yard in which a chair is suspended from a tree by a noose, with a bayonet and rifle stuck in the side of the chair — a reference to President Obama.

“It’s been there for a month,” said Laura Mulholland on Tuesday when asked about the display outside her house at 3005 40th St. S.W. "I'm not sure why everyone is up in arms about it."

Mulholland said she and her husband, Kevin Mulholland, got the idea for displaying an empty chair after watching actor Clint Eastwood’s speech at the Republican National Convention, where he had an imaginary conversation with Obama.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1679707

[marions ghost]

58. I don't think I have to list em for ya

Just look at the purple map. Look at California county by county. Look at New York county by county. Look at PA county by county. Oregon, Washington...

OMG There's right wingers everywhere OMG....! It can't be true.

I didn't say the South is progressive, but some parts of it certainly are (see map).

This is what happens when ya start up with this bipolar red vs blue thinking--you make all these generalizations about a whole region. America is purple. (duh) So it's hard to take you seriously when you start from a false premise.

+ =

[quinnox]

61. right, the South as a region is just like everywhere else

Let's not talk about the history of the South, (the civil war was kind of a huge thing) let's not talk about the many disgusting politicians that have come from the South, let's not talk about how as a region as a whole it is always a huge ally of the GOP, let's not talk about any of that. Let's just pretend the South doesn't have a horrible reputation among many liberals and progressives, and the solid reasons behind that. Nope, the South is nothing special, and is just like everywhere else in America. What the hell ever, you guys obviously don't want to talk about this. I can't say I blame you.

[Lex]

63. Like Abraham Lincoln, Bill Clinton, Thurgood Marshall? Every region has disgusting politicians.

You seem to be determined to broadbrush the South, so have at it. Enjoy.

[Ishoutandscream2]

85. No shit, a definite broadbrush

It's pretty easy to sit in his "blue paradise" wagging his finger at all of us poor, stupid folk here below the Mason-Dixon line.

[cordelia]

92. Not the first time the broadbrush has been used by this one.

Just displays bigotry, ignorance, and intolerance on his (her?) part.

Rather infantile.

[Ishoutandscream2]

82. We have never said it's a "bastion of progressivism"

So stop your shit. We are the ones doing everything to make change possible while you sit in your "perfect" world.

If anything, we should get credit instead of constant bashing from folks like you. It's sickening, and a very "ivory tower" type of thinking.

[Cali_Democrat]

48. The South really needs to get over it

They got their butts kicked by the North. They were humiliated. Shit happens. Get over it.

[bvar22]

76. And yet,

..it is NEVER someone who lives in The South who starts these stupid, divisive threads on DU.
It is ALWAYS somebody who lives somewhere else who wants divide the nation all over again and
keep the hate alive.
So, WHO needs to "get over it"?

I wish I could say it was different in the old days at DU,
but Hate The South threads have been with us since Day One,
and seems to be the only approved bigotry allowed at DU.

At the beginning of 2001, my Wife & I lived in Big Blue Minneapolis.
In 2006, we chose to move to The Rural South (Ouachita Mountains, Arkansas).
We won't be going back Up North.
The South is beautiful, and belongs to us ALL.

[cordelia]

79. ^^ This ^^

[Neoma]

81. Honestly, when I was growing up our family simply didn't talk about it.

Nor did my mother grow up with a family talking about it.

What am I getting over again?

[Ishoutandscream2]

83. We've gotten over it

But our northern bretheren here at DU seem to harp on it time after time.

It's time for you to get over it, and maybe give us a little credit in the work we're trying to do down here.

[txdemsftw]

87. This^^

Guess I might as well hang up my (non-existent) cowboy hat since I live in the South.

Well, I love my state...it's actually pretty awesome. I can't change the past, but there's a hell of a lot of people in this state trying to change things for the better.

I'm new here to DU and I love it, but I'm still surprised at all of the 'anti-south' talk on this website..something I'd expect from the 'other side', but not here.

[bvar22]

102. ...And This ^^

Hate The South bigotry has been popular at DU since Day One.

My Wife & I moved to the rural South from Big Blue Minneapolis in 2006,
and love it here for a multitude of reasons.

It is easy being BLUE in a Big Blue State.
It is a little harder being BLUE here.
You have to have your shit together,
but also be respectful of others and their opinions.
We don't hide our Liberal Politics,

but still have good, respectful, helpful relationships with our conservative neighbors.

Our Blue Vote weighs much more here than it did in Minneapolis.
We have also been more effective at changing minds by
giving some of our neighbors permission to vote for The Democrat.
(We stick strictly to Money in YOUR pocket issues.)

Ignorance, Fundamentalism, & Poverty IS still a BIG problem here,
but we find that is changing, especially among the youth. They are all online,
and Sat TV and the Internet has diluted the influence of their parents and preachers.

To those here who Hate-the-South...Good.
Please stay away. We don't need or want your "help".
For those that are more open minded,
you are invited over for Green Beans and Corn Bread.

The South is beautiful,
and belongs to us ALL.

[txdemsftw]

107. My goodness...

I love the sign..but you have a beautiful home! The porch is lovely.

And I agree with everything you said. The South IS beautiful and has MANY beautiful, kind-hearted people in it.

[coalition_unwilling]

88. "Get over it?" From some of the whining here, you would think it was the

North who fired first at Fort Sumter and them thar poor Southerners were jes' defending themsevs agin' the war of northern aggression.

[Bucky]

62. Check out THIS map. Surely this can't be a coincidence!

Notice something familiar here?



Take away Oklahoma and add Arkansas and it's the old Southwest Conference of the NCAA.

[moobu2]

64. For the record I was born and raised in Mississippi

and have resided in Alabama for the last 20 years. I love the South.

[marions ghost]

68. Well I'll be Aunt Bea (?!?!??////)

honey, all you need is some lovin' dontcha? Here ya go Come set up on the front porch and I'll give some chicken & dumpligs and you'll be all right...

Now can we all git along?

[moobu2]

72. Not if you're going to talk like that baby lol

[OKNancy]

70. Oklahoma was not a slave state.. statehood didn't happen until 1907

Most of the tribes had black slaves, but they split over whether to support the Union or the South... they fought over it too.

[quinnox]

74. Yea, I noticed

It surprised me that OK was not one. One score point goes to Oklahoma, I must admit.

[Go Vols]

93. Does

New York get a point subtracted for being a slave state?Or Maryland,Delaware,New Jersey,...

[DefenseLawyer]

90. The map shows what would become Oklahoma as "Indian Territory"

Last edited Thu Nov 1, 2012, 01:44 PM - Edit history (1)

but it was geographically open to slavery based on the Missouri Compromise of 1820, at least below 36º 30'. That's why Oklahoma has it's panhandle, that was land above the compromise line that Texas didn't want to claim anymore because it wanted to remain a slave state.

[OKNancy]

95. this doesn't conflict with what I wrote

I have a history degree from the University of Oklahoma. I studied under Arrell Gibson and Angie Debo.
I am very familiar with Oklahoma history. I try not to bore people though with long lessons.

[DefenseLawyer]

96. Alllll righty then

Sorry to bore you. You obviously had some point to what you wrote that was lost on someone like me without an OU education. Endeavor to persevere.

[OKNancy]

98. see, this is what is wrong with DU at this point in time

Everyone assumes some sort of insult. I admit, I felt like you were correcting me. The part about boring was meant to explain that I gave a very short lesson, not an insult to you. The title of this thread says "slave states" . I pointed out that Oklahoma was not a state until 1907.
Then in a short sentence said that the Indians* did have slaves, but were divided during the Civil War about which side to support.

* We say Indian tribes here in Oklahoma in casual discussion, not Native Americans.

ETA: also I might be touchy because there has been some nasty Oklahoma bashing by some of the participants in this thread.

[DefenseLawyer]

100. It's all good.

We all have bigger fish to fry. And I wasn't really insulted, just playing with you a little bit. I'm certainly not here to bash Oklahoma. I live in Indiana where, as we all know, rape is a gift from God.

[begin_within]

84. What's the matter with Kansas?

[coalition_unwilling]

89. In 1850, this was actually 'Bleeding Kansas,' pre-cursor to

the Civil War and where abolitionist John Brown cut his teeth.

[begin_within]

86. How about this map...

[Barack_America]

94. Compare Iowa(D) to North Carolina or even Georgia(R).

Doesn't hold.

It's race. Or, probably more accurately, how socioeconomics play into the perception of race. (i.e. fear and loathing of the mythical 'welfare queen')

[mstinamotorcity2]

103. Thank you

Can you give me a link to this map??? I would really appreciate it.

[geardaddy]

104. Except Minnesota was never a slave state

and is the only state to vote for a Democratic presidential candidate in every election since 1978.

[jtuck004]

106. I wonder what color the map of voluntary servitude to corporations would be, given

Last edited Thu Nov 1, 2012, 05:40 PM - Edit history (1)

that we are spending $40 billion a month to keep a price floor under Sheldon Adelson's varied mortgage-backed asset portfolios which helps prevent money being spent on opportunities for people to thrive.

'Cause it would be the same color, from sea to oil-sheen-covered sea.

[bvar22]

108. The only point that really matters...

...in this entire waste of a thread.
The MORE the Corporate Owners (1%) can keep us divided,
the MORE we all become slaves.
Simply voting for The Democrat will not be enough to turn the tide in this WAR.


[font size=4]We are ALL Slave States now.[/font]

Thank You.

[jtuck004]

110. Yup. n/t

[Jamastiene]

112. Yes, this southern Democrat is the scum of the Earth.

It is always the fault of those of us who live in the southeast. Got it. Never mind the fact that the middle of the country, which is NOT the south, is solid red nowadays and there are large areas of blue in the mid-Atlantic states. Those little factoids don't matter. All of us who live in the south are the scum of the Earth and all racists. We've heard this before.

When you get through tarnishing us, berating us, belittling us, and calling all of us racist scum, can we move on to something more important, like getting Obama elected again?

[faithfulcitizen]

117. No one said "all of you", just more than 50%.

[faithfulcitizen]

118. What the heck happened to Indiana? :(