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Fri May 13, 2022, 09:33 PM

A FAIR solution to student loan debt?

I certainly support doing SOMETHING about student loan debt.

I'm also a realist and realize that picking and choosing millions of people in debt up to their eyeballs... who way overspent on their Degree with little chance of paying it off...

Will result in a COLOSSAL political backlash.

I'm talking about a political volcano like Krakatoa or Thira.

The ONLY way this works is IF all people feel rewarded.

Make a formula to adjust the social security of people.

The gov't pays off 25,000 of your student loan debt, and you're 32... at 67 you will receive $43 less a month in SS

You're 56 and paid your own way through college or paid off your loans? You see an extra $53 per month in SS

Didn't go to college? You get the $53 also...

Sorta like your grandmother saying "I'll give you $10k now but your inheritance will be reduced to @25k after I pass..."

You CAN NOT assign a benefit to a select group of people without pissing off a hundred million+ people and WE ALL KNOW what happens when enough Americans get pissed off.



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Reply A FAIR solution to student loan debt? (Original post)
WarGamer May 13 OP
Budi May 13 #1
genxlib May 13 #2
WarGamer May 13 #3
rsdsharp May 13 #4
WarGamer May 13 #5
Orrex May 13 #6
WarGamer May 13 #7
Orrex May 13 #15
WarGamer May 13 #17
Post removed May 13 #20
WarGamer May 13 #21
Cha May 14 #37
WarGamer May 13 #19
Post removed May 13 #23
WarGamer May 13 #30
Orrex May 13 #32
WarGamer May 13 #34
AntivaxHunters May 14 #43
WarGamer May 14 #45
AntivaxHunters May 14 #47
WarGamer May 14 #48
AntivaxHunters May 14 #49
WarGamer May 14 #50
Kingofalldems May 17 #59
Chin music May 13 #14
deRien May 13 #8
WarGamer May 13 #9
meadowlander May 14 #38
bottomofthehill May 13 #10
WarGamer May 13 #11
bottomofthehill May 13 #12
inthewind21 May 17 #62
WarGamer May 13 #13
BSdetect May 13 #16
Tree Lady May 14 #36
inthewind21 May 17 #63
Tree Lady May 17 #64
ret5hd May 13 #18
Orrex May 13 #24
former9thward May 13 #26
ret5hd May 13 #27
Orrex May 13 #33
former9thward May 14 #35
Act_of_Reparation May 14 #51
former9thward May 14 #52
Act_of_Reparation May 14 #54
sheshe2 May 14 #53
Act_of_Reparation May 16 #56
sheshe2 May 16 #57
Act_of_Reparation May 17 #58
DURHAM D May 13 #22
BSdetect May 14 #41
former9thward May 13 #25
MerryBlooms May 13 #28
Act_of_Reparation May 14 #39
smirkymonkey May 13 #29
ymetca May 13 #31
neeksgeek May 14 #40
WarGamer May 14 #46
AntivaxHunters May 14 #42
Budi May 14 #44
manicdem May 15 #55
themaguffin May 17 #60
867-5309. May 17 #61

Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2022, 09:35 PM

1. Thank you. Well stated

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2022, 09:47 PM

2. If we don't fix college funding

Then we will have this problem every 10 years into the future

The idea of fixing it for some while still wracking up more victims makes no sense at all.

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Response to genxlib (Reply #2)

Fri May 13, 2022, 09:49 PM

3. Can you imagine...

Giving an 18 year old a loan for a 2022 Ferrari 812 Superfast (MSRP $389,000)??

Why not?

Too much? How about a Tesla Model S for $85,000? With no credit and n source of income?

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2022, 09:50 PM

4. I feel like I'm in a Colonial Penn Commercial.

Iím 68 and paid off my loans (and my daughterís). Whatís my benefit?

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Response to rsdsharp (Reply #4)

Fri May 13, 2022, 09:51 PM

5. Then you get something added to your SS.

Obviously we cant afford to write you a check for $75,000

But maybe an extra $180/month SS?

Some math genius in Gov't could work out a benefits table to make it work out... with a floor and a limit of course.

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2022, 09:52 PM

6. I paid off my student loans after years of struggle

In fact, I repaid the borrowed amount several times over.

Nothing would make me happier than to see student loan debt erased for others, so that they don't have to struggle with the same oppressive cruelty of indentured servitude. I don't need a pat on the head or a handout to protect my feefees about the imagined injustice of aid given to those who need it.


Politicians happily bail out banks and billionaires every chance they get. It would be nice to see average, struggling Americans reap the same benefit.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #6)

Fri May 13, 2022, 09:54 PM

7. You'd be free to take a PASS on your benefits... most wouldn't

Are you also in favor of canceling mortgages?

Car loans?

Why not? They're also oppressive.

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #7)

Fri May 13, 2022, 10:15 PM

15. Why are you parroting Reichwing talking points on this subject?

Mortgage debt? Can be discharged via bankruptcy.
Car loan debt? Can be discharge via bankruptcy.
Student loan debt? Impervious to bankruptcy.

Any other bullshit comparisons you'd like to make?

As it stands, student loan debt will punish the borrower until the borrower pays it off or is lucky enough to die or suffer total permanent disability.


Also, your subject line is 100% classic Reichwing dogma: "You'd be free to take a PASS on your benefits" is no different from "You can pay more taxes if you want to."

Your whole conceit is a poison pill to sabotage discussion of student loan forgiveness. By baselessly positing that all must receive some sort of payment, which you obviously know will never happen, you get to cluck your tongue and say "see, this is why we can't forgive student loans."


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Response to Orrex (Reply #15)

Fri May 13, 2022, 10:19 PM

17. wow... you're "charming"

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #17)


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Response to Post removed (Reply #20)

Sat May 14, 2022, 12:42 AM

37. No , he is NOT... That's really

insulting.

💙💛

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Response to Orrex (Reply #15)

Fri May 13, 2022, 10:21 PM

19. And...

I already detailed how the benefit can be universal.

The borrower is still "paying" off his loan (deferred) and those without loans also benefit.

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #19)


Response to Post removed (Reply #23)

Fri May 13, 2022, 11:10 PM

30. without the personal flames...

How about addressing the main point of the OP... that there will be MASSIVE pushback against an action that is deemed, by most... to be UNFAIR?

Is it worth 100 seats in the House, 5+ in the Senate and a 2nd term of Trump?

What's wrong with making some sort of "Great American Dividend"??

That's not a RW talking point... that's a real possibility. And it might work.

Don't forget, at one time SS was thought to be an unworkable Socialist scheme.

And I must be a REALLY weird RW'er...

I have a consistent history of support for a Wealth Tax and the unfairness of the Social Security system that is insufficient for those at the bottom of the benefits range...

And even in my thread I'm proposing massive social spending...

Quite a RW'er, huh?

And BTW, nothing wrong with State's Rights when those Rights will PROTECT a woman's right to choose and make guns a little less prevalent in MY state (CA) than in the other States.

You DO understand State's Rights is the only thing standing between US and a future Federal Abortion ban, right?

States Rights are a buffer between progressives and an overarching authoritarian future GOP Federal Gov't... people who knee-jerk associate State's Rights with the Confederacy and RW'ers haven't thought much about it.

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #30)

Fri May 13, 2022, 11:26 PM

32. A great American dividend won't pass any Congress in the foreseeable future or beyond

So your alternative proposal is DOA. Dead long before arrival, in fact. If we're imagining impossible payouts, why not give every American 100 trillion dollars? Such a bill has about the same likelihood of passing.

There has been some debate as to whether or not Biden pledged to cancel student loan debt, but whether he did or didn't, a fair number of people think that he did, and that's what he's up against. If he doesn't come up with something concrete and widespread among victims of student loans, then he'll incur a great deal of ill will.

If you want the "Great American Dividend," which by the way is begging to be parsed as Orwellian doublespeak, then by all means distribute that dividend. Don't peg it to student loans, though, or if you do, then give it a more accurate name, like "Badly Needed Relief For Victims of Predatory Lenders of Student Loans, With a Handout to Placate the Selfish Crybabies Who'd Lose Their Shit if Someone Else Received Assistance."

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Response to Orrex (Reply #32)

Fri May 13, 2022, 11:34 PM

34. thx for the reply.

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #7)

Sat May 14, 2022, 06:49 AM

43. Right wing talking points literally

verbatim.

A car loan and a mortgage isn't a human right. Education is. If you want to win future elections, you better erase student loan debt.
Young people are now the largest voting bloc. Student loans, climate, and healthcare are their top 3 issues.

How old are you? I'm curious.

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Response to AntivaxHunters (Reply #43)

Sat May 14, 2022, 01:10 PM

45. mid/late 50's...

And I've noticed... the phrase "Right Wing Talking Points" is used by people who simply disagree with others.

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #45)

Sat May 14, 2022, 05:13 PM

47. It's also used by....well....

Republicans!

If you find yourself agreeing with Trumpers like below, you may be doing it wrong,
Does this sound familiar? You just said the same thing above. 👇🏽




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Response to AntivaxHunters (Reply #47)

Sat May 14, 2022, 05:19 PM

48. It's all discretional borrowing... and re: your personal insult... not nice.

the REALITY is... it's not FAIR.

I explained it in the OP... create a Social program that benefits everyone... some may use their benefits to pay off student loan debt, some will take it as increased SS payments, etc etc...

OR...

Make it dischargeable under Bankruptcy Law... I'm not against that. EXCEPT the Fed and Lenders who suffer from the defaults won't be happy. Maybe the cost of lending will go up?

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #48)

Sat May 14, 2022, 06:30 PM

49. It's not an insult

I simply debunked with facts to illustrate my point of how you're repeating right wing talking points. If that makes you feel uncomfortable, the easiest way to change that is to change your point of view.

Eliminating student loan debt benefits everyone. You, I, and Mother Mary above (if you believe in that sort of thing).
Right now, you are already paying for the 10s of millions of people who defaulted on their student loans & I want you to think about something long & hard, ok? (I'm asking nicely here so you know, not being a jerk or anything because "tone" is very lost on the internet). I'm going to share a very long & deep personal story with you in hopes you can better relate.

I'm around the same age as you. I graduated High School the youngest in my class and made the cut off by 1 day due to my birthday for class of 1987, otherwise I would have been 1988. I waited a few years after graduating to attend college because my folks didn't a whole lot of money. I had to pay school by myself & chose to go to College of DuPage in the western 'burbs of Chicago. It is a leading school in this country with a student population close to 45,000 when I attended. It's absolutely massive in size. And I wanted to work in criminal justice, specifically federal -- DEA exactly. I was a very different person then than I am now. My folks pleaded with me not to do it because it was "too dangerous" (keep in mind this was during the height of the drug wars in central & South America...Colombia & all that jazz). But I was determined. One day at school, they had the government come visit us. One of the tables wasn't the DEA but rather the FBI & funny enough the agent I spoke with had just joined the FBI and transferred from the DEA. And that's as far as I ever got because I was straight up told I wouldn't & couldn't qualify due to having learning disabilities; Synesthesia precisely, where I see numbers as colors. I was out roughly close to $3k of my own money because of it. All that time I wasted was on college credits.

Later that year after learning of that, my folks moved to Colorado where they had always wanted to move back to. The year was 1990. And once again, I found myself having to pay for my own schooling. Luckily I made bank working at Domino's as a delivery driver (there's a topic of a whole other conservation! I made more in 1990 than people due to day doing the same thing I did! WTF?!) So I once again attended a community college and switched my major to art with a minor in humanities. I was chasing my dream of wanting to be an automotive illustrator, specifically hotrods, and I wanted to work for one of the big magazines like "Street Rodder" or "Rod & Custom". I was good, I was damn good! I even joined the local guild for the Automotive Fine Arts Society and had my work displayed in fine art galleries. I was accepted into Rocky Mountain College of Art & Design in late 1993 & I was over the moon. I was able to chase my dream of being an illustrator at long last (which I majored in with minors in Fine Art & Graphic Design.

I had private gallery shows, everything. And my tuition? Well I took out loans because my folks couldn't afford college let alone an elite art college. Soooo I took out roughly $45-$50,000 in student loans to pay not only for my tuition but all the art supplies I needed and which were required. You want to talk huge money, art supplies is it! lol

I graduated near the top of my class in 1997. Life happened and I moved to Germany because I met a German who I fell in love with. We had a child, the whole thing. And I proceeded to live in Germany for many years. The internet then was still in its infancy but I was able to take on some assignments remotely and landed a gig with the London Times as a cartoonist! Big stuff! So I did some editorial illustration & children's book stuff.

Then things took a turn for the worst.

I won't get into it but I had to leave Germany because I was in a very abusive relationship, both mentally & physically. It's a wild story how I was able to get out of Germany & come back home but I'll save that for a rainy day some other time. When I came back to the states early 2000s I was able to land a full time gig as a staff illustrator for a company who specialized in funerals for kids. (that was really rough & it took lots out of me). During all this time I was able to pay my student loans and had some help from various agencies because I had trouble doing so.

And then things really took a bad turn.

I started having trouble sleeping. I'd wake up literally gasping for air and feeling like I was being choked. My health quickly deteriorated to the point of almost dying. I couldn't function. And I was dying. My 2 health insurance companies dropped me and I had to sell everything I own to pay for my care and my medications. I was able to get help because my mom was a patient at National Jewish Hospital here in Denver and they agreed to see me. Turns out I had Alpha 1, a very rare disease which hits your lungs and liver. While I didn't have it in my liver, I did have it my lungs badly.

The ACA literally saved my life. And I balled my eyes out for hours when Obama was elected because I knew help was on the way for me and millions of others. I was going to be saved..... (whew this is hard to type and share....damn!) I was one of the very first people in the entire country to be allowed in to the exchanges. My doctors at National Jewish Health went to bat for me and got me enrolled in the high risk exchanges (remember those!?!?) and the day the ACA went live for the whole country, 5 minutes after IU was laying in the OR having the life saving surgery I needed to have.

During this time I wasn't able to make any student loan payments at all. I couldn't work due to my condition.
And after surgery I wasn't able to work either because I was too weak. And then things became a lot worse....

Around 2015 I woke up one morning with an incredibly high fever & an abdomen which was bright pink. I had no idea what was happening. My dad rushed me to the ER where it was found that I had sepsis and I almost died. Fast forward to today. I am still very sick and have had several surgeries because come to find out, I'm infected with 2 antibiotic resistant superbugs. There's no cure for what I have and I have had drains constantly in me for the last several years. There's only 1 other person in the entire world who has what I have & I'm so rare that University of Colorado where I go for my care asked if they could have student observe me whenever I'm there being treated in interventional radiology. I agreed & figured if I can help anyone else then yes, I very much will allow myself to be observed for teaching purposes.

I'm legally disabled due to my condition. I am unable to work or function like a normal person does. My days consist of having my father having to come out of retirement and become my caregiver. He's employed by the state even! And each & every day is a struggle. I am unable to pay my student loans off or contribute anything to them. I have applied numerous times to have them dismissed due to my condition & have been denied each & every time. My student loan debt is currently almost $200,000.
My son who still lives in Germany attends University of Cologne. Do you know what he's paying for his schooling? $0. Yup, zero. Because education is literally a human right & tuition doesn't exist. How is that fair exactly?

We claim to be the "best country in the world" yet we are far from it as I just illustrated. How is that fair to people like me? Why are disabled people like me thrown into the trash & forgotten about? And what you're failing to realize about all of this is it's very much an issue of class. The #1 carriers of student loan debt are black women.

Bankruptcy law won't do anything but make things even worse. Again, an issue of class. We're asking young people to be saddled with massive debt, often for a lifetime for loans they'll never pay off. And bankruptcy stays on your credit report for 10 years. Think about that for a second....why are you championing something which literally harms people? That bankruptcy won't let people even rent an apartment let alone buy a home, a car, or even get utilities in their name. Do you know that even wanting a phone these days requires a credit check? Or say you want internet service, you can't have that either because ISP's run credit checks too.

There's but one solution to all of this -- eliminate all of it immediately.
Not doing so will literally cost of elections because student loans are a top priority of young voters who are now the largest voting bloc in America. Those who are saying the kinds of thing you are seem to lack class consciousness when it comes to this. Now that's not an insult but rather an observation.

I kindly ask you to think about what I said. There's absolutely nothing good which comes out of your positioning on this topic, just continued harm to people who only wanted to learn. It's not right ethically or morally.

Do you know in some states they can seize your personal property for non payment of student loans and they can even seize your drivers license? They can. And they do.







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Response to AntivaxHunters (Reply #49)


Response to AntivaxHunters (Reply #47)

Tue May 17, 2022, 08:35 AM

59. BOOM!

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Response to Orrex (Reply #6)


Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2022, 09:57 PM

8. My son

Has student loans and thought he paid one off but discovered that he had a balance of $137 that turned into $1000 because of interest. I think forgiving interest and lowering interest rates would be a good solution. The loan amount would be repaid and I think all the people who have paid off their loans wouldnít be so set against something like this

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Response to deRien (Reply #8)

Fri May 13, 2022, 09:58 PM

9. You're still picking and choosing winners and losers.

How about everyone born on a Friday gets a $1000 check? Fair?

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #9)

Sat May 14, 2022, 12:50 AM

38. That's what public policy does. It incentivises public good.

Why should people who get married pay less in taxes? Why should people who choose to have kids get a tax credit? Why should someone get paid just because they are old? Why should teachers and civil servants get to write off part of their student loans?

Because having the population replenish itself, not having starving old people, and having lots of teachers and people taking reduced salaries to work for the public is good for society.

So why not just recognise that having a well educated population where people in their 20s and 30s aren't in crippling debt that prevents them from home ownership and starting a family is also a public good that we should be incentivising?

No public policy is 100% fair across the board. But most grown ups can suck it up and recognise at least the indirect benefits to themselves.

There's a lot worse things we could be spending money on (corporate tax breaks, weapons) than writing off debt for the next generation of doctors, nurses, civil engineers, scientists, medical researchers, software engineers, artists, etc.

And I say this as someone who recently paid off my last $10K of $70K worth of student loans having given up on the Biden administration ever actually following through on their promise. I don't care if they turn around tomorrow and forgive $10K and I don't see a dime of it. Because I still benefit when my fellow citizens benefit.

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2022, 10:02 PM

10. Easier solution 0 percent interest. Pay back what you borrowed.

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Response to bottomofthehill (Reply #10)

Fri May 13, 2022, 10:03 PM

11. For pure Federal loans... sure.

But how about the people who PAID their loans, interest included?

It's simple... a benefit has to be universal.

Call it the "Great American Dividend"...

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #11)

Fri May 13, 2022, 10:06 PM

12. Interest rates have always moved.

My student loans had a much higher interest rate than my daughters. Pay it off faster, less interest paid. If you borrowed 100,000 dollars, you owe 100,000 dollars. Pay back what you borrowed.

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #11)

Tue May 17, 2022, 10:49 AM

62. How about the people

Who worked in sweat shops 16 hours a day 7 days a week, man woman and child? Do YOU continue that because it wasn't fair for others to get what they didn't? Do your kids start working at ages 8? How about SS? Do YOU or any of your family turn it down because hey, there were tons of people who got no benefit of it before it's existence? How about the ACA, do YOU spend 15K a year on Health insurance because hey, it's not fair to those before who didn't benefit from it? What about the COVID stimulus payments? You cash your check or send it back? Cause hey, there were millions who got nothing?

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2022, 10:06 PM

13. Another solution...

Allow Community Colleges to give out Bachelors Degrees.

BTW, the great State of California allows precisely that... 15 participating schools.

There is NO NEED for the vast majority of people to go to a fancy school.

If you really look at it... the amount of Doctors, Lawyers, Scientists and Engineers are a tiny amount of grads.

You SHOULD be able to get your Bachelors Degree in Business Administration at a CC... no need for UCLA or Vanderbilt unless you want to spend the $$ out of your own pocket.

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2022, 10:16 PM

16. Our daughter borrowed with the understanding that she would pay it back. She did.

At considerable sacrifice,

How about paying back those people somehow.

I've yet to hear an valid argument against this.

If you favor those who cannot manage their debt you discriminate against others.

You borrow at your peril I'm afraid.

The whole matter is a mess.



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Response to BSdetect (Reply #16)

Sat May 14, 2022, 12:31 AM

36. My daughter feels same way Joe has to realize

Its going to piss off all the ones who sacrificed to pay off the loans.

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Response to Tree Lady (Reply #36)

Tue May 17, 2022, 10:56 AM

63. And here in lies the problem

It's going to piss off those who don't get a payback... And people wonder how we got here. The answer, is right on this very thread. Did you get 'pissed off" when the ACA subsidized for some but not all? Did you get "pissed off" because there was an income cap on the COVID payments and not all got them? Are you "pissed off" because some kids gets free lunch at school but not all? What about the WIC program, does that "piss you off" too? And the list goes on and on.

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Response to inthewind21 (Reply #63)

Tue May 17, 2022, 01:35 PM

64. Of course I didn't get pissed off at any

Of that but I am a safe progressive Democrat. My daughter is a independent.

It isn't about us it's about the ones that can go either way.

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2022, 10:21 PM

18. I suffered through chemo and radiation for cancer!

(not really)

When they discover a prevention/cure, will all the people who get the cure pay me some money?

Get over yourselves. Ask not etc etc

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Response to ret5hd (Reply #18)

Fri May 13, 2022, 10:26 PM

24. Exactly

My father died of leukemia. It wouldn't be fair to find a cure now.

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Response to ret5hd (Reply #18)

Fri May 13, 2022, 10:32 PM

26. I won't say apples and oranges because your analogy is so far off

it is apples and cows or something. No one asks to get cancer. Everyone who has a student loan asked for it and knew the financial consequences.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #26)

Fri May 13, 2022, 10:34 PM

27. Say I was a smoker then.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #26)

Fri May 13, 2022, 11:33 PM

33. Your framing is false

Every 17 year old pressured into taking out student loans was sold a bill of goods that promised a lifetime of prosperity to follow. The very notion, pushed for decades, that "smart" high school students must go to colleges is part of that bullshit sales pitch, and the well-documented price hike policies of universities nationwide are clear cash-grab schemes to rake in more and more student loan money on the backs of students who will never be able to pay it off.

Predatory lenders give a slick sales pitch to make their usurious loans seem like the best thing ever, and the minors who sign up for it will then suffer decades of punishment for failing to make accurate predictions about the economy five or ten or fifteen years in the future.

You're holding minors (most of whose parents probably aren't Ivy League economists with a team of researchers) to a higher standard than banks, businesses, or politicians.


Make student loan debt subject to bankruptcy like just about any other voluntary loan other than tax debt or court-ordered debt.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #33)

Sat May 14, 2022, 12:09 AM

35. What "predatory" lenders?

Since 2010 the federal government makes the loans. Are they the predatory lenders?

Feds take over student loan program from banks

President Obama will sign a bill today that ends a 45-year-old program under which banks and other private-sector lenders such as Sallie Mae receive a federal subsidy for making government-guaranteed college loans.

Instead, the U.S. Department of Education - which already makes roughly a third of these loans through its direct-lending program - will make 100 percent of them starting July 1.

https://www.sfgate.com/business/networth/article/Feds-take-over-student-loan-program-from-banks-3193888.php

BTW minors can't sign contracts. So your example of "17 year olds" is no good.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #35)

Sat May 14, 2022, 07:26 PM

51. This is the kind of callous, unempathetic shit I expect from Republicans.

I went to college in the early 2000's. Throughout my entire academic career up to that point, adults had hammered it into my head that I needed to go to college. I needed to go the "best" college that would accept me. That I shouldn't worry about the cost because by virtue of going to college I would get a good job and would have no issue paying off the loans. I was an 18 year old kid. I didn't know a fucking thing about taking out loans, interest rates, paying down debt. They don't teach this shit in school and my parents, having gone to college more than thirty years prior, had no practical experience with how this system worked when it came time for me to attend school.

A piece of paper written by old people a hundred years ago says 18 year olds adults, ergo they responsible? Legally, sure. Morally/ethically, that's a patently absurd argument to make.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #51)

Sat May 14, 2022, 07:38 PM

52. Almost all of my reply post was about what was called "predatory lenders".

Which is what the poster I was replying to called the lenders. The lender is the U.S. government. So my question remains, and you ignored, who is the "predatory lender"?

What else are we going to excuse 18 year old's for doing or not doing? When is the age of responsibility? 25? 30? 35? Never?

I notice you are not mentioning those who took your money. The colleges. What is their responsbility in charging never ending out of control tuition increases?

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Response to former9thward (Reply #52)

Sat May 14, 2022, 11:16 PM

54. Google Sally Mae.

I have a great story about them, as it should happen. A friend of mine was having trouble meeting his $1,200 minimum monthly student loan repayments and called Sally Mae up to see what he could do to lower that amount.

The representative said, "Your father cosigned the loan. You could just kill yourself and then he'd be on the hook instead of you."

As for you blaming universities for student loans, it's a really a chicken-or-egg kind of situation. Not that it matters. You've made it pretty clear you think people like me who work at universities are all overpaid moguls working in "mansions" and taking helicopters to work.

Yep. Livin the dream!

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Response to Orrex (Reply #33)

Sat May 14, 2022, 09:23 PM

53. Since when is a 17 year old allowed to take out a 100K loan.

Every 17 year old pressured into taking out student loans was sold a bill of goods that promised a lifetime of prosperity to follow.


Who pressured them?

Predatory lenders give a slick sales pitch to make their usurious loans seem like the best thing ever, and the minors who sign up for it will then suffer decades of punishment for failing to make accurate predictions about the economy five or ten or fifteen years in the future.


Minors cannot sign for these loans. Why? They are MINORS!

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #53)

Mon May 16, 2022, 05:36 PM

56. Both of these points have already been addressed.

Who pressured them?


Literally every adult of consequence in their lives.

Minors cannot sign for these loans. Why? They are MINORS!


The age of majority is an arbitrary, legal determination. It does not actually speak to whether one is prepared, or responsible, enough to understand the consequences of taking out enormous loans.

Seeing as that a significant number of these loans are cosigned by the students' parents, I daresay exceedingly few people well past the age of majority understand the implications of student loans. Now, there are two possible explanations for this:

1) They're all irresponsible, lazy, or stupid

2) There's something wrong with the fucking process

I'm thinking it's No. 2. But then, what the fuck do I know. I'm just another lazy, stupid millennial looking for a fucking handout, amirite?

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #56)

Mon May 16, 2022, 06:22 PM

57. See your last paragraph.

I never said anything of the kind about you. I wasn't even responding to you.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #57)

Tue May 17, 2022, 08:21 AM

58. You are talking about my cohort.

Ergo, you are talking about me.

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2022, 10:23 PM

22. My cousin did not pay back her student loan.

She joked about it. She thought it was funny and anyone who paid theirs off was not very smart.

However, 45 years later when she started drawing her SS check they started tapping a portion of it for loan repayment. They also tap her tax refunds from the IRS. She will not live long enough to repay her loan. She has complained a lot about the government taking her money and does not realize that absolutely no one feels sorry for her.

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Response to DURHAM D (Reply #22)

Sat May 14, 2022, 06:13 AM

41. I was wondering about how many such people will get a reward for doing that.

This is not something I've heard dealt with in the rush to cancel loan debts.

Is there any mention of this?

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2022, 10:28 PM

25. The only fair solution is to look at both sides of the equation.

The reason for the loans did not come from thin air. They came from out of control tuition increases from colleges. They have turned their buildings into mansions and added no end of layers of bureaucracy -- all of whom are making big salaries. I went to and live near
the largest university in the U.S. The dorms are better equipped than any apartment I ever lived in and in my time I lived in some nice apartments.

Universities should be required to freeze tuition for five years for any student on who is attending on a student loan (which are the vast majority).

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Response to former9thward (Reply #25)

Fri May 13, 2022, 10:42 PM

28. Check out how many helicopters some of the

Big universities own and how often they're in the air. Big money being spent.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #25)

Sat May 14, 2022, 01:07 AM

39. Interesting.

So, this is how I see this shaking down.

You freeze tuition. The University can no longer afford to pay its executive administrators and maintain its costly buildings. Thousands of people like me making less in higher ed than we would in the private sector get laid off. Buildings remain. Executive administrators keep making six figure salaries.

Problem. Solved.

Well done.

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2022, 10:53 PM

29. Hey, I have a great idea!

 

Everyone who has paid back what they have borrowed (and the insane amounts of interest already paid) gets the slate wiped clean.

Everyone who has not paid back what they have borrowed gets the interest wiped out and only has to pay the principal left on the loan.

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2022, 11:11 PM

31. Lots of possible solutions

One of which is to simply "mint" a multi-trillion-dollar coin and pay them all off.

We magically produced trillions out of thin air to bail out Wall Street, didn't we?

Yeah, I know. Never gonna happen. This "confidence game" must continue, with us all pretending things will work out. They won't, but we'll keep pretending anyway.

Meanwhile, the Pentagon can't account for $4 trillion they "misplaced" over the past decade, so they just gave up accounting any more. Neat trick there, eh?

Store ye up no gold on Earth!

Why?

Because Jesus Saves!

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Sat May 14, 2022, 06:01 AM

40. How about restoring bankruptcy protection?

The premise behind removing student loans from bankruptcy protection was the idea that everyone with a college education was financially well-off, and could afford to pay. This is evidently not a valid assumption. Sure, some people were simply walking away from their loans via unfair use of bankruptcy. But we have means testing in bankruptcy laws now. Surely this should be available for someone who genuinely canít pay. Isnít that the point of bankruptcy? It is for medical debt, or a mortgage, even credit card debt, et cetera. And this solution puts the decision in the hands of the borrower.

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Response to neeksgeek (Reply #40)

Sat May 14, 2022, 01:12 PM

46. Not a bad idea at all...

Problem is... the banks (or Fed) would face a MUCH larger risk of losing money so they'd look for a way to offset.

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Sat May 14, 2022, 06:43 AM

42. No. Erase it all.

If you want to win future elections.

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Response to AntivaxHunters (Reply #42)

Sat May 14, 2022, 12:06 PM

44. Sounds like the same tantrum that gave us Trump!

Bribery.

I say erase every American's IRS debt as well.
Everyone gets a govermant burden lifted from their shoulders & starts at zero balance.

Now there's a real Campaign Slogan fer ya!!

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Sun May 15, 2022, 09:46 PM

55. Good idea

The OP's solution sounds doable and fair. People relieved of their student loans would free up more time to earn more money to invest for retirement later to make up for the SS shortfall. And it would help to relieve the SS deficit problem.

I would support it.

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Tue May 17, 2022, 09:03 AM

60. I agree that picking & choosing will face backlash. This is complicated. I don't get why many think

that it's simple. "Oh just sign an executive order."

Well maybe he could do that, but it will piss off a lot of people and overall hurt the Biden and the party and we can't afford that.

I get it - I've seen receipts of what some have paid including what their original loan was and how years later, the amount owed is much higher.

There has to be action, but it has to be smart and it has to address the root problems - loan interest and if possible skyrocketing costs.

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Tue May 17, 2022, 09:45 AM

61. Making them interest free

would be a good start.

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