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Tue May 3, 2022, 11:48 PM

What is this reversal of Roe going to do HIPAA regulations?

When HIPAA came in while I worked in the medical field I had to watch a training film about confidentially and sign it twice yearly about confidentiality of anything I learned about patients. In these disgusting states that have bounties to enforce their antiwomen laws will these people who work in doctors' offices, ERs, etc. be fired if they snitch to the authorities their suspicion or outright knowledge of a woman needing an abortion? It just blows my mind that this might set back medical privacy 25 years. How are you going to enforce HIPAA privacy for some but not for everyone?

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Arrow 32 replies Author Time Post
Reply What is this reversal of Roe going to do HIPAA regulations? (Original post)
halfulglas May 3 OP
jfz9580m May 3 #1
LeftInTX May 4 #6
jfz9580m May 4 #7
LeftInTX May 4 #9
jfz9580m May 4 #10
uponit7771 May 4 #23
iemanja May 4 #14
LeftInTX May 4 #15
gratuitous May 4 #16
iemanja May 4 #19
LeftInTX May 4 #20
SoonerPride May 6 #28
onenote May 3 #2
jfz9580m May 4 #8
lapfog_1 May 4 #3
Tickle May 4 #18
lapfog_1 May 4 #22
Hekate May 4 #4
LeftInTX May 4 #5
Hoyt May 4 #11
uponit7771 May 4 #24
Hoyt May 4 #26
wryter2000 May 4 #12
uponit7771 May 4 #25
catrose May 4 #13
halfulglas May 4 #17
catrose May 4 #21
RobinA May 6 #29
halfulglas May 6 #32
LeftInTX May 6 #27
RobinA May 6 #30
LeftInTX May 6 #31

Response to halfulglas (Original post)


Response to jfz9580m (Reply #1)

Wed May 4, 2022, 12:16 AM

6. The providers are criminalized, not the women

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #6)

Wed May 4, 2022, 12:24 AM

7. Just as bad

But then there was that one case from a month back -self induced abortion.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/woman-faces-texas-murder-charge-induced-abortion-83982115

Woman faces Texas murder charge after self-induced abortion
Authorities say a 26-year-old woman has been charged with murder in Texas after causing “the death of an individual by self-induced abortion.”

By KEN MILLER and HEATHER HOLLINGSWORTH Associated Press
10 April 2022

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Response to jfz9580m (Reply #7)

Wed May 4, 2022, 12:29 AM

9. The DA, who is a democrat dismissed the case because she couldn't be charged.

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #9)


Response to LeftInTX (Reply #9)

Wed May 4, 2022, 09:40 PM

23. "who is a democrat" when there is a republican DA they will punish women with the process no matter

... if they win or not.

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #6)

Wed May 4, 2022, 06:23 PM

14. States are criminalizing women

as well as providers.

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Response to iemanja (Reply #14)

Wed May 4, 2022, 06:29 PM

15. No..there was the case in Texas who was wrongly charged.

Case was dropped in three days.

DA said, "I can't charge her. It's against the law to charge her"

As to why she was charged remains a mystery.

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #15)

Wed May 4, 2022, 06:36 PM

16. "As to why she was charged"

As the old saying goes, "If you want to send a message, call Western Union." But in this instance, the message went out to women in Texas in no uncertain terms. If you seek health care, you could land you in the slammer for a weekend. So you'd best think twice before running off to the doctor or the clinic if you're at all concerned about the possibility of pregnancy.

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Response to iemanja (Reply #19)

Wed May 4, 2022, 08:09 PM

20. OK..thanks

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #6)

Fri May 6, 2022, 04:48 PM

28. Not anymore. Women will be charged with murder for a miscarriage

Much less for an actual abortion.

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Response to halfulglas (Original post)

Tue May 3, 2022, 11:58 PM

2. Nothing. They are unrelated.

Notwithstanding what some may be saying.

HIPAA is based on Congress's power under the Commerce Clause.

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Response to onenote (Reply #2)

Wed May 4, 2022, 12:28 AM

8. Most people do not understand the ramifications of these things

When they are not legally trained professionals, which very few people are...
The net effect broadly will be to chronically psychologically stress women.

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Response to halfulglas (Original post)

Wed May 4, 2022, 12:02 AM

3. Lawyers may not divulge their conversations with clients

However, they can (and must) divulge any knowledge of impending crimes.

Once the states criminalize abortion, doctors and nurses (and potentially therapists and psychologists) will be REQUIRED to report any one contemplating or planning an abortion.

The right to privacy is gone.

Let's say a young girl gets pregnant in Theocratistan, Merica... and her mother buys her a plane ticket to California to "visit her aunt" for a month. If Theocratistan police get a ping from the girls cell phone ( not protected data ) when she visits the clinic in California... her and her mother and other family members can all be charged with various crimes ( RICO comes to mind ).

Think it can't happen... think again.

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Response to lapfog_1 (Reply #3)

Wed May 4, 2022, 07:30 PM

18. Not all states are going

to criminalize abortion. My Governor has come out and told us he has our back and anybody regardless of what state they live in can come here for a safe abortion

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Response to Tickle (Reply #18)

Wed May 4, 2022, 09:38 PM

22. which is fine... so long as the person never returns home

and the state that you are in refuses to extradite the "law breaker".

Trust me, they will criminalize the crossing of state lines to obtain an abortion (and include anyone that helps the person seeking the abortion).

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Response to halfulglas (Original post)

Wed May 4, 2022, 12:03 AM

4. Gut them. Abortions & miscarriages are supposed to be reported to the states. Then there's the...

… bounty hunter laws.

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Response to halfulglas (Original post)

Wed May 4, 2022, 12:09 AM

5. Medical Practice Acts are independent of HIPAA

My doc prescribes tyl#3 for chronic pain. When the crackdown happened, he told me he was gonna watch everyone's prescriptions because the feds were watching. (The feds already track controlled substances and now they were increasing surveillance) Doctor said prescriptions that were refilled too soon or too far apart were both suspect. (Too far apart could imply hoarding) Doc said, if there appeared to be Rx abuse, the feds could yank his DEA license. Doc said if a patient showed suspicious refilling pattern, he would no longer prescribe to that patient because he did not want to get in trouble.

The government does not have access to the patients' names. It only has access to provider data. Hospitals keep records. Think of Covid. Cases were reported daily to health departments. Names were not released, just the number of cases. The number of patients in ICU, the number of patients on ventilators. This was on our local news every night. The mayor gave a press conference every day at 6:14 pm. (14 was the number because it was before the commercial break)

Doctors will not perform abortions because they will lose their license. I'm pretty sure that standard practice requires some pathlab of placental/fetal/embryonic tissue. It is for this reason, they are no longer performing abortions in Texas. Women will not be charged with any crime, only providers.

So, in the same manner that the feds track controlled substances, abortions can be tracked. In the same manner that Covid data is released abortions can be tracked. The provider gets in trouble, not the woman.

Lookie this! It's chlamydia by census track!





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Response to halfulglas (Original post)

Wed May 4, 2022, 12:35 AM

11. If state law requires reporting, think that will get by HIPAA. If enforcement

 

agencies suspected an “illegal” procedure, a subpoena pretty much supersedes HIPAA unless one has a good attorney delaying action.

Hopefully, it won’t come to that. But who knows.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #11)

Wed May 4, 2022, 09:44 PM

24. How will they suspect anything though? HIPPA will have to be violated in too many cases by ...

... individuals opening up the places they work for to litigation.

"I suspect cause I feel ... " SHOULD NOT be enough evidence for a subpoena IINM

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #24)

Wed May 4, 2022, 10:04 PM

26. Some states will try to require people to report instances of abortion. In those cases, I bet

 

HIPAA would not offer protection, like the old days of reporting syphillis or something.

Otherwise, I think it would be a violation of HIPAA to report it to authorities unless they subpoened the info. Maybe a nosy neighbor reported the woman.

But you are correct, no one would know in most cases and I really doubt many law enforcement agencies are going to track down women and drag them to court.

Of course, I can no longer say that with certainty. Surely, juries in most juristictions would have one or two jury nullifiers for abortion charges.

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Response to halfulglas (Original post)

Wed May 4, 2022, 12:52 AM

12. Currently, HIPAA-protected medical information can be released in response to a valid subpoena

I worked in the legal department (as a secretary) at a large medical center. We could release medical information in response to a subpoena. If one of these awful states' laws result in a subpoena, the information will be released legally. No change to HIPAA. A mere inquiry won't be valid reason to give the information out. Mental health information requires a patient authorization or a court order.

However, a law just passed in CT will deny another state from receiving medical information regarding reproductive health information. (My sister consulted on the writing of the law. Yay, sister!) I don't know if that will be challenged in federal court.

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Response to wryter2000 (Reply #12)

Wed May 4, 2022, 09:45 PM

25. +1,

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Response to halfulglas (Original post)

Wed May 4, 2022, 06:11 PM

13. I'm not sure this is the correct place to ask, but people here seem to know about HIPAA.

My understanding is that it means a doctor can't release your medical information without your consent.

Yet when I call various healthcare offices to ask about their vaccination status--dentists, optometrists, and the like--they say they have no idea about their staff; they can't ask because of HIPAA.

Sounds like BS to me, but who's telling them to use this answer? (And how do I find a vaccinated office other than by calling every practitioner on my insurance list?)

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Response to catrose (Reply #13)

Wed May 4, 2022, 07:23 PM

17. Yes, it is certainly BS!

HIPAA forbids release of medical information by anyone associated with a medical facility (doctor, nurse, techs, receptionists, etc. about a PATIENT. (Although that case in Texas where the woman was originally charged with self inducing an abortion was reported by the hospital.)

It does not preclude medical facilites from releasing any information of the staff vaccination status or their safety precautions regarding masks, etc. You can assume they either do not ask their staff or the staff doesn't want to admit they are not compliant.

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Response to halfulglas (Reply #17)

Wed May 4, 2022, 08:23 PM

21. Thanks.

When they just keep repeating the crap, I feel like I've fallen down a rabbit hole or have gone through the looking glass, hard to say which.

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Response to catrose (Reply #13)

Fri May 6, 2022, 04:53 PM

29. It Is BS

We got told at work (healthcare facility where they understand HIPAA about as well as your average pizza delivery guy) that we can't ask our fellow workers if they were vaccinated due to HIPAA. Completely untrue.

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Response to RobinA (Reply #29)

Fri May 6, 2022, 06:35 PM

32. They probably repeat it often because everyone knows if you repeat something often

Enough, it becomes true. (not)

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Response to halfulglas (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2022, 04:43 PM

27. Here is what I meant about mandatory reporting and how HIPAA won't protect:

Abortion Reporting
https://www.eff.org/issues/abortion-reporting#:~:text=An%20abortion%20facility%20may%20or,transmits%20any%20health%20information%20electronically.

All but four states have abortion reporting requirements


Example of abortion reporting form. Includes everything but the name. It includes a chart number.


At the time of the EFF article, only California had privacy guarantees.
I believe a few more states added them in 2022.

https://www.axios.com/2022/05/06/data-company-headache-user-nightmare-abortion-roe

While HIPAA restricts how providers share medical information, it doesn't prevent them from sharing it with law enforcement. "I don’t think people can rely on HIPAA as being a defense in these cases if there were a criminal prosecution," Granick said.

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #27)

Fri May 6, 2022, 04:55 PM

30. HIPAA Doesn't Apply

here because no names are attached.

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Response to RobinA (Reply #30)

Fri May 6, 2022, 05:00 PM

31. The provider and procedure reporting are mandatory.

If it's illegal, a provider will not perform the procedure

Having a chart number is almost like having a name....

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