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(16,388 posts)
Tue Apr 19, 2022, 09:34 AM Apr 2022

Are we already two nations residing inside the same border?

We are so split as to render our nation's name an oxymoron.

Bedrooms, families, neighbors, religious institutions, local governments, state governments, the federal government and our courts are split on party lines. The issues do not matter nearly as much as party loyalty. We are no longer in competition for our ideals, we are at war.

Our problems were simpler during the Civil War the lines of demarcation were clearly defined and it became a contest of might vs might. In both warring parties, there were places of safety, far behind the lines. In our war today, there are no physical lines, no safe zones to retreat to. In the American Civil War, the Union did not win the war based upon their moral superiority, (which they clearly had) they won due to their willingness to shed blood, their numbers and industrial and logistical superiority. They beat the Confederacy into total submission, then occupied the land and punished the losers. That is the way wars end.

Wars only end when the victor and the vanquished have been defined. The winners go on to dominate and extract revenge on the losers. The determination of success or failure is not based upon good and evil, but by the ability of one entity to dominate the other. Is that the inevitable result here?

Today our war is cold, a war of words, of legislation, of decrees, but the battles are escalating. The right is waging and winning wars in the states, the lines becoming more clearly defined; is it a matter of time before it becomes a war of weapons and blood? Or just a total submission to the tyranny of the right? There are millions of "Patriotic" Americans, armed to the teeth and praying for a Reichstag fire and a charismatic leader to lead them. These are people who worship Donald Trump, Abbot, DeSantis, Greene and their kindred spirits, they have a complete void of morals or sense of justice. They want you to either be either totally submissive or dead. You can hope for the best, but you best have a plan for the worse.

We live in interesting times, we may be living witnesses to the destruction of Democracy. The next few months may determine the history for the next 100 years.

Are we already two nations residing inside the same border? (Original Post) Chainfire Apr 2022 OP
I take issue when you say the issues don't matter as much as party loyalty. dawg Apr 2022 #1
I agree. Claustrum Apr 2022 #3
Of course there are people that are exceptions. I know that. Chainfire Apr 2022 #14
They are that freaking stupid and heartless. dawg Apr 2022 #17
They are stupid and heartless, and they want to "belong." Chainfire Apr 2022 #19
Oh ............... dawg Apr 2022 #20
two species markie Apr 2022 #2
I agree about the two species I_UndergroundPanther Apr 2022 #5
I look/judge the person, not the party. n/t RKP5637 Apr 2022 #4
I do somewhat I_UndergroundPanther Apr 2022 #6
Yep, it's pretty much a given, anymore, if they're GOP you probably will find a broken moral compass RKP5637 Apr 2022 #8
Yeah. I used to have some respect for republicans even though I disagree with them. Claustrum Apr 2022 #9
If a person supports an evil policy, are they not evil too? Chainfire Apr 2022 #15
That's a good way to look at it anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! n/t RKP5637 Apr 2022 #21
There will always be a difference of opinion about how to govern. Claustrum Apr 2022 #7
K&R n/t RKP5637 Apr 2022 #11
Members of the Putin party have told us gab13by13 Apr 2022 #10
Do these millions of "Patriotic" Americans even excist? Kaleva Apr 2022 #12
You better believe that they exist. Chainfire Apr 2022 #16
More like a nation shredded up with large areas of savages in the middle. lagomorph777 Apr 2022 #13
I would say yes. shrike3 Apr 2022 #18
I don't see ForgedCrank Apr 2022 #22
Building that way since at least Raygun. kairos12 Apr 2022 #23


(10,585 posts)
1. I take issue when you say the issues don't matter as much as party loyalty.
Tue Apr 19, 2022, 09:42 AM
Apr 2022

I'd switch parties in an instant if they changed their positions on the issues. I think most Democrats would.


(4,845 posts)
3. I agree.
Tue Apr 19, 2022, 09:45 AM
Apr 2022

If we somehow get a TFG of our own, I am ready to not vote for him/her. Just because they align with my beliefs doesn't excuse them for bad behaviors, no morals, and criminal acts.


(16,388 posts)
14. Of course there are people that are exceptions. I know that.
Tue Apr 19, 2022, 10:24 AM
Apr 2022

But I believe that, you, or they are not the rule.

If you look at some of the crazy policies that Republicans are passing, especially at the state levels, you know that that they are voting based on party position. I say that because I refuse to believe that they are all so freaking stupid or heartless. They vote in blocks out of fear of each other and their radical voters.

I once viewed Republicans as people who had political and philosophical differences than I did, and respected their right to disagree, and could at least respect them. Now, I view them as enemies. Those who are not heartless and wicked are supporting those who are. I don't think that I have changed as much as the Republican Party has.


(10,585 posts)
17. They are that freaking stupid and heartless.
Tue Apr 19, 2022, 10:33 AM
Apr 2022

It isn't party loyalty.

It took them a few years, but the bigots in the South figured it out and switched to the party that welcomed them.

There is a real sickness and rot in white American culture. Perhaps if you live among educated urban whites, you don't see it. But the majority of white people in the hinterlands are sick. It's the same kind of sickness we've seen before throughout history, and it'll end up the same way as well if the good people of this country don't stand firm.


(16,388 posts)
19. They are stupid and heartless, and they want to "belong."
Tue Apr 19, 2022, 10:37 AM
Apr 2022

Fascism is the country club that welcomes all to the clan.


(12,135 posts)
5. I agree about the two species
Tue Apr 19, 2022, 09:52 AM
Apr 2022

Republicans even have different brains than liberals.

We really are for all intents and purposes like 2 different species.



(12,135 posts)
6. I do somewhat
Tue Apr 19, 2022, 09:54 AM
Apr 2022

Because to be a republican these days you have to have a broken moral compass.

And I avoid people like that.


(4,845 posts)
9. Yeah. I used to have some respect for republicans even though I disagree with them.
Tue Apr 19, 2022, 09:55 AM
Apr 2022

But nowadays, I can't respect anyone who is still a Trumpist Republican.


(16,388 posts)
15. If a person supports an evil policy, are they not evil too?
Tue Apr 19, 2022, 10:26 AM
Apr 2022

I hold anyone who identifies as Republican responsible for their Party's behavior.


(4,845 posts)
7. There will always be a difference of opinion about how to govern.
Tue Apr 19, 2022, 09:54 AM
Apr 2022

There will always be two parties and some party loyalty among the most loyal members of each party. The problem is the causal calls for violence and the increasing partisanship. We shouldn't view the other party as enemies and there should be some respect and agree to disagree on some fundamentals. I understand that the two parties are different in a lot of fundamental beliefs but no party should outright say they would never work with the other party (looking at you, McTurtle). Compromise shouldn't be a dirty word even though it does water down what we want. But we shouldn't need a majority to get anything done. Each party should fight for what they want and believes in but at the same time sit at the same table and get some work done, some for democrats and some for republicans.


(18,961 posts)
10. Members of the Putin party have told us
Tue Apr 19, 2022, 09:56 AM
Apr 2022

what they are going to do in 2022 and 2024. They have put Magats in positions of power to certify or not certify elections in the states.
Gerrymandering is worse now contrary to statements otherwise.
Trump and his inner circle have been exposed as seditious conspiracists. Some of the same people who were involved in the coup practice are involved in coup 2.0.

Mark Meadows, John Eastman, the fake electors, should have been standing before a grand jury by now.

We can win the 2022 election, but we better be ready to challenge the rat fucking that Magats are going to pull.

I agree, once we lose control of government, it is not coming back for a very long time. Democracy and minority rule cannot exist together.

Chuck Schumer should have a committee convened to investigate Mike Lee, for just one example.


(35,817 posts)
12. Do these millions of "Patriotic" Americans even excist?
Tue Apr 19, 2022, 10:15 AM
Apr 2022

Your comment:

"There are millions of "Patriotic" Americans, armed to the teeth and praying for a Reichstag fire and a charismatic leader to lead them."

TFG asked for his supporters to go to DC on the 01/06/21 but only about 30k did and of those, an estimated 800 assaulted the Capitol.

Apparently, TFG isn't charismatic enough.


(16,388 posts)
16. You better believe that they exist.
Tue Apr 19, 2022, 10:32 AM
Apr 2022

You only see the tip of the iceberg when you see the crowd at the Jan. 6 insurrection, or Nazis marching under the swastika flag. If you want an education as to what many of these people think, say, want and what they are willing to do it, go spend some time on a gun forum. I have, and I found it horrifying. For me, personally, the worst part is that, if you view long enough, people give up too much personal information and you find out how many of the would be rebels are in law enforcement.

There are a lot of heavily armed Americans, who, if they thought they could get away with it, would kill people just because that they were identified as liberals. We are not different to them than the Jews were to the SS in the 1940s. These people don't spend their treasure on high-powered rifles, and thousands of rounds of ammo for "sport shooting" unless you consider yourself a "sport."


(1,555 posts)
22. I don't see
Tue Apr 19, 2022, 11:26 AM
Apr 2022

things being a lot different now than in the past regarding party affiliation and general policy.
The thing that seems to have changed is the incredibly fast pace in which topic of the day changes, the reach of the arguments due to the digital age, and an overall abandonment of basic civility among many.
I've been witness to many political arguments from decades in the past, the barber shop, the coffee shop, etc. The old-timers would go nose to nose arguing politics. The difference I see now is that compared to the past, the arguing old-timers still went to Church together, family gatherings together, and let the bullshit go after a good sparring over daily coffee at the diner in town. It was just a sport for the most part, and I've seen dollar bets lost that made an old guy cringe as if he'd lost a million dollars having to hand it over.
Now, on the other hand, people have turned downright mean and hateful, bent on destruction of one another. Boycotts, doxing, getting people fired from their jobs, vandalizing, and even physical violence at times. It's a bridge too far and I support NONE of that bullshit. I find it childish and anti-social, behaviors that are beneath me. The only real result from such behavior is even more hate and more demands for vengeance.
Sadly, I do not see it getting any better anytime soon. It really is a sad state of affairs.

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