It's frightening how easily we accept brutality.

"The butcher of Syria." A Russian hero whose specialty is killing civilians Quite a monster.


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-appoints-general-cruel-history-oversee-ukraine-offensive-rcna23784

than Muslims, Asians, Africans, South Americans, etc.

Yet the Kurds have been one of our best coalitions. Not only were we willing to accept a brutal assault against them, we flat out left them.

I hold to my point. The brutality doesn’t seem to be the true issue, for most.

We voted him out of office. We did not accept his self serving policies, and did the only thing we could do.

If you have no answer.

we remain territorial and tribal under the veneer of civilization.

Half a million kids starving - a large percentage under 5 yrs old. Videos of families eating leaves for dinner.

Unfortunately, the UN doesn't work so well at stopping wars, when one of the members of the core group with veto power is Russia.

Should we involve ourselves in all of them or are some more favorable to your intervention stance? You understand the differences between a civil war and an invasion by a foreign power, right?

Putin and others can just kill off humanity with few repercussions. The guy is grotesque and should be stopped. Today, it is far too accepted as business as usual.

and I did nothing because I was not a communist. Then they came for ........

We know how it ends. We know from history, but it's lesson not yet learned.

…

It’s not the atrocities or war crimes that matter. It’s not the brutality, which we willingly accept.

destroyed Baghdad for supposedly being involved in "9/11", having WMD's, or living under a cruel dictatorship. We killed hundreds of thousands of citizens minding their own business, orphaned a million children, and started the emigration of Arabs to European countries causing untold damage to their nations.

We spent 20 years in Iraq and Afghanistan for what? We lost over 5000 military personnel, killed millions of Arabs, and ran our National Debt up to $20T for absolutely nothing. Other than Cheney's wet dream of controlling some oil fields and making money for Haliburton on "no bid" contracts to rebuild what we just destroyed.

And people are appalled now what is happening in the Ukraine. Don't think for one minute our troops did not do the same or worse to people that crossed their paths in Iraq. You just don't hear about it, and probably don't want to believe it. The Russians are doing no different now than we did for 20 years. And American troops were just as savage the Russians to the German civilians at the end of WWII.

War is war and it all sucks. Violent, mean, savage and mostly without any morals.

That makes it much easier for others to call us hypocrites, which hurts our ability to lead the world when the cause is just.

Obama helped regain some of our standing after Bush/Cheney were gone, then a malignant narcissist who preferred dictators to our Western allies smeared feces on our reputation during four long years of embarrassment and outrage.

Not only can't American leadership be trusted to be the champion of democracy -- American voters can't be trusted either.

As someone who was and still am totally opposed to the Iraq and Afghan wars, I have to take issue with some of your points. Over 200,000 Iraqis may have died, the majority of whom were killed in the civil war that we clumsily and inadvertently started with the invasion. Not millions. Facts matter. I agree with many of your points. The wave of refugees created flowed into Europe and laid the groundwork for anti immigrant, extreme right wing authoritarians like Orban to rise to power. Also, the nature of the war was very different from the Russian actions in Ukraine (and Syria and Chechnya). American actions were wrong and ultimately destructive, but a far cry from the genocidal actions of Putin. I believe that Bush and many in his administration are war criminals and should be dealt with accordingly. The things that Putin has done and continues to do are far worse , far more cruel,and a much greater danger to the world. I was interested to find, by the way, that you have no other posts listed. Welcome to DU.

typing. Thank you for the correction. But, the "official" numbers of 200,000 dead are still just an estimate. The Iraqi civilization does not lend itself well to either an accurate census or an accurate death total. Many believe the number to be much higher, maybe twice as high as reported. It has been twenty years and I still have rage over the decision to start a war that Rumsfeld claimed "would last six to eight weeks, at most. And cost about $80M." It really takes an idiot to state something like that and be SO wrong.

I believe they knew that it would be a long, dragged out affair, so much more money can be made in a ten year or longer campaign by the MIC and bottom feeders like Blackwater and Haliburton.

It also gave the GOP so much leverage in this country to be the revengers of 9/11 it makes me sick to this day. They crammed that 1300+ page "Patriot Act" down our throat, taking away our rights that the Conservatives claim to love so much. They fired up anti-Arab, anti-Muslim dislike into a raging hatred that still lingers today. I think the entire Bush Administration and a handful of outsiders should all be doing time in the Hague.

I am 68 years old and a big fan of FDR myself. I just don't think the Dems today have the backbone to do what needs to be done to bring this country back from the brink of Fascism. I am also deeply disappointed that 40% of Americans can be so irrational, hateful and bluntly blind to the fact they are on the wrong side of anything resembling normal, moral human content.

I have been a member of DU for thirteen years, my age in my Du name when joining. Also, I have about 250 posts, I have become more active the last couple of years. Usually when I think of something to say, another member beats me to it. I may add a little, but mostly read and learn.

This is why so many countries are trying to be neutral. Because we are just as bad as Russia when it suits us. Our history, our legacy, is horrific... when it suits us. Our willingness to support allies who are in the process of killing and bombing civilians is legendary as far as many countries are concerned.

It just doesn't make the news. And it is spun so that we look like the good guys. Just like Russian news is spinning the invasion of Ukraine. Americans CHEERED when we went into Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan. "We're fighting for democracy!" What bullshit. We were fighting for Halliburton and oil.

Europe and the US have HORRIBLE human rights records. Colonizing other countries, killing and subjugating people. Raping and exploiting the land. Starting wars to topple governments that we don't like. Treating minorities like garbage and encouraging police to kill them without cause. Choosing which people can immigrate based on race.

We have done barbaric things, but no one wants to admit it because the truth hurts, and history is written by the winners.

Some days I am ashamed to be American.

As I recall.

That wasn't the catalyst.

We as a society and as individuals.

Sounds like a diatribe about your memory rather than an honest interpretation of events. We were as up in arms then as we are now and we did as much then as we are doing now. ...nothing. Remember the "red line"?