What should NATO do (re: Ukraine)?

Is so far resoundingly in the lead.

I have no idea. But more support in some way would be a good idea. Including food and other necessities for those who are unable to get out of the country.

Is dumb.

The WH and Pentagon are making these decisions with a lot more in mind than anyone here. Maybe just trust them.

...Iraq would have been the best decision of all!

Cool.

Often gets us into more problems than it helps.

Nobody here would make such an argument if TFG was in the WH.

I think you'd agree that the Biden and his team can be trusted to make the best possible choice based on the info they have.

Then their reasoning is not based on information they have vs what we don't have. Their reasoning is based on the fear that any help beyond a certain point will provoke Putin into starting nuclear war. Meanwhile, NATO stands by as an entire city is starving to death and chemical weapons have been deployed because they are afraid that helping Ukraine defend itself will get Putin to nuke us. Nobody is arguing it is much more complicated than this and we are allowing a malevolent dictator to use the fact he has nukes to keep us from doing the right thing.

That doesn't always equate to the best outcome.

I don't blindly follow anyone.

Or did you continue to follow them regardless of what they decided and the outcome?

You want blind obedience. Loyalty doesn't require that. The most loyal admit their leaders aren't always perfect but know that they are trying their best to find the right path, even as they sometimes fail. They are even willing to point out when a course of action is suboptimal.

The blindly loyal think their leaders cannot fail in always picking the best possible course of action.

Well said, thank you!!

You will stick with our party leaders no matter what?

You say you are different but your behavior is exactly the same as mine and most everyone else's here.

It doesn't matter to you or me if Biden is successful regarding Ukraine or not. We both will continue to follow him

You didn't answer the question and I'll assume you remained loyal to and followed Carter, Clinton and Obama through thick and thin.

No, I don't stick with anyone "no matter what."

This is now officially a silly conversation and there's no point in continuing it.

...

I would establish a NATO safe zone in western Ukraine. Polish and other troops in Lviv, Ivano-frankivst, maybe even Odessa. No direct engagement in the fighting but make it clear there's going to be a safe part of Ukraine for those who want to leave to go without having to leave the whole country.

Would also dissuade Belarus and free up Ukrainian forces.

It would likely save thousands of lives as well.

Send a few crack Nato armored divisions to the Polish/Ukrainian borders. See if their presence induces a response.

And will likely face the fallout regardless of what decision is made.

It won't be us signing letters to grieving widows or parents or laying awake at night thinking of all the dead we caused by how we voted on an Internet poll at DU.

But we will face the fallout, good or bad, by what Biden decides.

Or if us or our children are drafted due to a world war. There are many ways we can and will be held responsible for a bad decision besides elected officials being taken to the presses for it.

losing the war. It's time to give them the weapons to win the war, at the very least.

Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, [European Union], Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Ireland, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, North Macedonia, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Turkey, United Kingdom, and United States.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/22/ukraine-weapons-military-aid-00019104