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Wed Mar 16, 2022, 10:37 AM

Respectfully people,

please stop calling it a no fly zone, call it for what it really would be, a CAP, combat air patrol.

22 replies, 1144 views

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Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply Respectfully people, (Original post)
MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 OP
Pantagruel Mar 2022 #1
relayerbob Mar 2022 #2
TwilightZone Mar 2022 #3
WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2022 #6
TwilightZone Mar 2022 #8
MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #11
MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #7
BeyondGeography Mar 2022 #4
MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #9
mitch96 Mar 2022 #5
Ohio Joe Mar 2022 #10
MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #20
Ohio Joe Mar 2022 #21
LakeArenal Mar 2022 #12
sarisataka Mar 2022 #13
leftstreet Mar 2022 #14
MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #15
uponit7771 Mar 2022 #19
hamsterjill Mar 2022 #16
Wounded Bear Mar 2022 #17
Wounded Bear Mar 2022 #18
Chautauquas Mar 2022 #22

Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2022, 10:51 AM

1. You're asking a lot

from a bunch of formerly pacifist , armchair generals. I'm more than uncomfortable in fatigues.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2022, 10:53 AM

2. Exactly

Onee that requires a LOT of aircraft, a LOT of coordination, and likely strikes against the SAM missiles that would be fired at the patrolling aircraft, in addition to shooting down Russian planes and cruise missiles. If we want to get the Iskanders, then Patriots need to be sent in, requiring use of NATO troops. Things will escalate VERY quickly if NATO tries it.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2022, 10:56 AM

3. Zelenskyy is referring to it as a no-fly zone.

It's perhaps a bit unrealistic to expect everyone else not to.

From his speech:

"This is a terror Europe has not seen for 80 years and we are asking for an answer to this terror from the world. Is that a lot to ask? To create a no-fly zone over Ukraine to save people. Is this too much to ask? A no-fly zone. Russia would not be able to terrorize our cities."

https://qz.com/2142992/transcript-of-volodymyr-zelenskyys-speech-to-the-us-congress/

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #3)

Wed Mar 16, 2022, 10:58 AM

6. Why wouldn't he? It sounds much more palatable, and it's clear people support the idea of whatever

they think it is.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #6)

Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:03 AM

8. My point...

was that demanding that everyone else use a different term is unrealistic. The poster to whom I was replying seems to insist that everyone who uses the term is wrong, which, I guess, would include Zelenskyy.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:06 AM

11. Technically, he's right,

but the true nature of what he's asking for would involve denying Russian use of the airspace, which would require direct combat with Russian forces, hence, a combat air patrol.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #3)

Wed Mar 16, 2022, 10:59 AM

7. Referring to it as a no fly zone is much more acceptable as opposed

to calling it what it really is, a combat air patrol and all that would entail.

Pres. Zelensky is a gifted politician and speaker, he chose that terminology purposefully, but he knows what it really is.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2022, 10:57 AM

4. Hey, people here are always going to disappoint you on the fine print

And no matter how many times you correct us, well always blow the pop quiz.

At the same time, were thankful there are posters like you who know their military shit. I know I am.

Feel free to expand on that with comments that are deeper than technical corrections.

Here's an example from a Times of London commenter about the Russian army (the article was about the death of another Russian general):

It has never been seen as one of the worlds top armies. Compare and contras ttheir time in Afgahan with NATOs - they lost 15000 in ten years and we lost a fraction of that in over ten years. It was as a result of their campaign there that we (Rhine Army) in the 80s started to realise that though they had the size, they had poor junior command (poor NCOs), poor equipment and old fashioned battle tactics. The command deficiency is particularly debilitating, as it means that if a platoon commander is killed, there is really nobody to ensure attack moment is sustained. Their Seargents and corporals are hopeless - our in Britian are top notch and subkect to tough selection/command courses (Junior and Senior Brecon) to get our stripes.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:03 AM

9. Exactly my experience working with the Russian Army's equivalent to our combat engineers.

in the mid 90's.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2022, 10:58 AM

5. I think a lot of people call it what the Main stream media(MSM) call it.. nt

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:05 AM

10. What is the difference?

Not being sarcastic or anything, I really dont know.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Reply #10)

Wed Mar 16, 2022, 06:52 PM

20. A no fly zone can encompass many reasons, like Intl. Airports are all

no fly zones, the area around the White House is a no fly zone, etc. whereas a CAP is for one purpose and one purpose only, to deny the enemy the airspace and engage any enemy air assets
that violate the air space.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #20)

Thu Mar 17, 2022, 11:39 AM

21. OK, that makes sense

Thank you

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:09 AM

12. My opinion is that's the common name used. "Incorrect" or not

Kinda like grammar. Sorry if its wrong but nobody likes to be corrected on it.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:20 AM

13. It is all part of the terminology

To make the results of war more palatable to civilians

Neutralized = killed enemy soldiers
Collateral damage = killed civilians
Friendly fire = we killed our own people
Special military action = unprovoked war
No fly zone = shoot down Russian aircraft

Quite a few people used to take issue with such euphemisms but given the recent sea change DU has experienced regarding war I think the vocabulary is moot.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:22 AM

14. Just stop. DUers aren't responsible for MSM framing. n/t

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:32 AM

15. No. nt

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 16, 2022, 01:03 PM

19. True but we know to be more informed than US M$M ... which is bad enough

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2022, 12:50 PM

16. I think it's stupid to get caught up in semantics

How many posts about this today? No one on DU has the power to provide what Zelensky is asking for - whether his verbiage is correct or not. So without the power to do something, its all only discussion. Only words.

Let it go

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2022, 12:55 PM

17. No such thing as a "no fly zone" in an active combat zone. It's called CAP. Combat Air Patrol...nt

I've been saying this as well.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2022, 12:57 PM

18. If we truly set up a "no fly zone" we would have to shoot down Ukrainian planes as well...

that's why the "semantics" matter.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

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