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Sun Mar 6, 2022, 04:42 PM

All those advocating for a no fly zone over Ukraine are phrasing it wrong,

it wouldn't be a no fly zone, it would be a CAP (Combat Air Patrol) because there would certainly be combat between Russia and the US/NATO forces and all the horrors that go with it, just think about that for a second.

It's good to debate this, but in the end, it would be a disaster on a monumental scale if it escalated to release of nuclear weapons.

What is your thoughts on this?

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Reply All those advocating for a no fly zone over Ukraine are phrasing it wrong, (Original post)
MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 OP
48656c6c6f20 Mar 2022 #1
MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #3
Walleye Mar 2022 #2
MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #5
relayerbob Mar 2022 #16
EarnestPutz Mar 2022 #4
Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #6
MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #7
Phoenix61 Mar 2022 #9
neverforget Mar 2022 #8
MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #10
bluestarone Mar 2022 #11
MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #14
WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2022 #12
MoonlitKnight Mar 2022 #13
MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #15
moniss Mar 2022 #17
MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #18
NCjack Mar 2022 #19
MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #22
Tomconroy Mar 2022 #20
Wounded Bear Mar 2022 #21
MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #23
moniss Mar 2022 #26
MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #27
hlthe2b Mar 2022 #24
MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #25
moniss Mar 2022 #28
WarGamer Mar 2022 #29
Cha Mar 2022 #30

Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 04:45 PM

1. So it's binary?

Let Russia win or he will nuke us? Naw. thanks, if I thought like that I might have to change my screen name

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Response to 48656c6c6f20 (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 04:46 PM

3. I'll thank you not to put your words in my mouth, I have no idea where they've been.

I never said such a thing.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 04:46 PM

2. I think Putin is determined to drag us into this one one way or the other

If we donít declare a no-fly zone Russia certainly will soon

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Response to Walleye (Reply #2)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 04:48 PM

5. I'm not denying that,

however it won't be a no fly zone, it'll be a CAP and I just want people to realize that the chances of it escalating is very real, are we prepared for it?

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Response to Walleye (Reply #2)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 05:10 PM

16. Ha, they have no ability to do so

or it would be in place already

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 04:48 PM

4. Absolutely true. This isn't Saddam's air force that will hide their planes in bunkers. If NATO....

....planes try to enforce a no fly zone, that's when a fictional Tom Clancy scenario becomes real.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 04:49 PM

6. Since most of the air attacks are from guided missiles, not planes, a no-fly zone is useless. Nt

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 04:50 PM

7. +100. nt

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 04:53 PM

9. This most of all.

Itís a huge risk that would have minimal chances of stopping the bombing that is currently happening.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 04:50 PM

8. A no fly zone would have to include targeting surface to air missiles (SAMS). Russia would

target NATO aircraft from inside Russia with their S-400 SAMS. They would have to be taken out in order to protect our aircraft. I have no doubt NATO could do this but it would escalate quickly. In a conventional war, we could kick Russia out of Ukraine relatively easily. But the question becomes, will Putin use nukes?

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Response to neverforget (Reply #8)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 04:53 PM

10. Exactly right,

it would require targeting systems on Russian soil, how would the Russian people react to an attack on Mother Russia?

Quite violently if WWII is any indication.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 04:55 PM

11. Would be better to

Somehow get Missile defense system. (i know, that's impossible as well)

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #11)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 04:56 PM

14. Fully agree.

How? That's way above my pay grade.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 04:56 PM

12. I'm convinced some people think a No Fly Zone means there's an invisible wall in the air, or

planes patrolling the border and just...turning back fighter jets, or that it's declared and everyone just follows along because someone said so.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 04:56 PM

13. CAP is the correct term

And it should have been done pre-invasion.

Current situation it would be CAP plus air strikes, or CAP supporting Ukrainian air strikes because the big threat now is artillery.

Anything can lead to a nuclear exchange. The belief of many is that it would halt the war rather than escalate. But escalation is highly possible.

The public support is probably providing a significant deterrent at this time so it doesnít have to happen yet.

In my opinion, the bigger risk is that Putin actually wants us to get directly involved to feed his propaganda that this is about NATO aggression- which is total bullshit.

Also, not ALL people are making that mistake. Iím pretty sure Gen Wesley Clark and Adam Kinzinger understand.

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Response to MoonlitKnight (Reply #13)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 04:57 PM

15. Agreed nt

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 05:12 PM

17. I think we are seeing a bully

who needs to get punched in the nose really hard. I don't believe that his generals will go for a nuclear weapons use because they know that not only do they have to face the response from the West but the smart play for China would be to join in pounding Vermin Vlad if he did. China makes most of it's money from the West and not Russia. The game Vermin Vlad is playing is bad for business. China loves business above all else. I don't doubt for one minute that China would seize any opportunity to successfully attack. I don't see the Chinese attacking the West because they would be killing off huge numbers of their customers. I do believe that to not stand up to this bully is simply inviting him to continue. Later on his next move may well be Poland especially given the history between the two and the current assistance Poland is showing to Ukraine. There are many Poles still alive today who remember Russian treachery during WW2 even though Russia was claiming to be an ally of the West. Their purposeful delay in entering Poland allowed the needless slaughter of many thousands of Poles by the German Army as it retreated from Poland. Believe me when I tell you that there are many Poles who would rather slit a Russians throat as to look at him. If Vermin Vlad wants to "recapture" the Stalin years he will find that the cost in Russian lives will be enormous.

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Response to moniss (Reply #17)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 05:18 PM

18. You make a very compelling argument, and I think you're correct

about the Russian Military High Command, they, along with Russia's Intelligence Services, the FSB and the SVR, know the true cost of taking on the US/NATO, they know they would lose a conventional war and they also know that nobody wins a nuclear war.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 05:24 PM

19. I see the reasonable choices as NATO stopping Putin before he totally destroys

Ukraine or stopping him when he invades the next country.

In Ukraine, there are 4 operating nuclear power plants and there is Chernobyl. That's a poker hand of 5 aces to intimidate the world. He now controls 2 that are operating and Chernobyl. We are already late in stopping him.

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Response to NCjack (Reply #19)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 05:27 PM

22. Thank you for your input. nt

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 05:25 PM

20. CAP now!

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 05:27 PM

21. Yes, a "no fly zone" means that we're joining in on the war...nt

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 05:29 PM

23. I'll post this blanket statement.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and input on this, while I may disagree with some of you, I respect your right and duty to express your opinions on this topic.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #23)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 08:15 PM

26. You are

a gentleman and a scholar MCE and I know by previous discussions that you are a proud driver who cares for his equipment, safety on the road and doing the job of driving in a professional manner.

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Response to moniss (Reply #26)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 08:17 PM

27. Thank you.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 06:13 PM

24. I know all the reasons not to do it. I'm not convinced that NOT doing so will in any way restrain

Putin from marching on to "claim" other countries, including ultimately a NATO member state.

Yes, the ultimate Sophie's Choice, but I fear we are going to look back at this in a year and regret not doing more to stop him then. Just as we did with Hitler in 1939.

I'm currently within 60 miles of one of the northern CO/WY Minuteman missile silos and one considered to be first strike targets. So, yes, I get it.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #24)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 06:21 PM

25. Thank you for your input.

I think the difference between 1939 and 2022 is that in 1939, the world didn't stand up to Hitler whereas, in 2022, the world is standing up to Putin's aggression, hopefully, this will be the deciding factor.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #24)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 08:18 PM

28. Imagine

the reaction if our land based missiles launch!! Most people likely don't even know they're living with them so close.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 09:01 PM

29. 100% correct.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2022, 09:09 PM

30. I agree.. Another thing I agree with

is what Beau of the 5th Column has to say about it.

"Don't back door it.. say you want

to go to War with Russia.."




TY 💙💛

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