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Sat Feb 26, 2022, 01:36 AM

Should NATO enforce a no fly zone over Kyiv?


15 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
Yes
6 (40%)
No
9 (60%)
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24 replies, 772 views

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Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply Should NATO enforce a no fly zone over Kyiv? (Original post)
ColinC Feb 2022 OP
Hoyt Feb 2022 #1
msongs Feb 2022 #2
ColinC Feb 2022 #4
Celerity Feb 2022 #17
BootinUp Feb 2022 #3
Wingus Dingus Feb 2022 #5
ColinC Feb 2022 #6
Wingus Dingus Feb 2022 #8
ColinC Feb 2022 #11
Wingus Dingus Feb 2022 #14
ColinC Feb 2022 #16
Justice matters. Feb 2022 #18
ColinC Feb 2022 #19
Justice matters. Feb 2022 #21
ColinC Feb 2022 #23
Justice matters. Feb 2022 #24
RockRaven Feb 2022 #7
ColinC Feb 2022 #9
Shanti Shanti Shanti Feb 2022 #10
ColinC Feb 2022 #12
DetroitLegalBeagle Feb 2022 #13
Shanti Shanti Shanti Feb 2022 #15
Justice matters. Feb 2022 #20
DetroitLegalBeagle Feb 2022 #22

Response to ColinC (Original post)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 01:38 AM

1. Gonna trust Biden's Admin who sees the big picture better than me.

 

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Response to ColinC (Original post)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 01:38 AM

2. so u want US jets to shoot down Russian jets. really? nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 01:42 AM

4. Wouldn't be even close to the first time NATO has shot down Russian jets

And waiting around for bullies with an inferiority complex to decide to stop invading sovereign countries has had a really bad track record as far as history is concerned.

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Response to msongs (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 02:23 AM

17. unbelievable some of the 'armchair general' cray cray coming out of the woodwork for days



'cruise missile' Moscow and/or every Putin 'home' (or 'palace')

send in teams of assassins to kill Putin

limited (lol) nuclear strikes

send in NATO ground, air, sea troops to directly fight the Russians

seize all Russian property (not just oligarch owned, literally ALL) worldwide (or in the US, have seen both proposed)

round up and deport (back to Russia) all pregnant Russian women (wtf), regardless of dual citizen status or who is the father

use drones to attack the Russians because then we (NATO, US?) are not technically using soldiers (they forgot the operators I guess), so not actually 'fighting'

block ALL (including commercial) flights to AND from Russia, from and to ALL global countries (which would, of course, entail passenger jets being shot down, now THERE'S a winner!, smdh)

other assorted illegal and/or act of war claptrap, much of it sounding like a bad Tom Clancy novel








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Response to ColinC (Original post)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 01:38 AM

3. It would be considered an act of war, so no.

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Response to ColinC (Original post)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 01:45 AM

5. Good lord, no. No direct confrontation.

Unless you want disaster.

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Response to Wingus Dingus (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 01:46 AM

6. Disaster is unavoidable at this point.

Largest land invasion in Europe since world war two by a bully with an inferiority complex has a pretty clear lesson as far as history is concerned.

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Response to ColinC (Reply #6)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 01:50 AM

8. It's a limited war, confined to one country.

It's a disaster for Ukraine. Disaster on a much larger scale would be the US plus other NATO countries vs. Russia plus China jumping in to help. Why would we bring that about voluntarily?

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Response to Wingus Dingus (Reply #8)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 02:04 AM

11. It isn't though.

This is the second country Russia has invaded in the last decade. They have made clear they want to go further and re establish the USSR territories. The only thing that will happen if Russia takes Ukraine is put them in a more strategic and favorable position to attack NATO. Ignoring Russia in Ukraine is like ignoring Hitler in Poland. We really do have a good idea from history what ignoring an insane bully with an inferiority complex, will do.

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Response to ColinC (Reply #11)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 02:08 AM

14. There is a bright line, and that's an attack on a NATO country.

That's world war three. All parties know this. That's why NATO membership is carefully considered.

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Response to Wingus Dingus (Reply #14)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 02:20 AM

16. That's a dangerous line to wait for imho

Finland and Sweden could be next. They -and many other countries nearby are not in NATO. If they are attacked, do we still wait out of fear of nuclear war?

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Response to ColinC (Reply #16)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 02:30 AM

18. We have troops in NATO countries right now just in case the madman attacks one

or more.

ARTICLE 5 is a commitment.

P.S.: Nuclear subs not far from the beaches too...

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Response to Justice matters. (Reply #18)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 02:33 AM

19. At this rate I'm open to "attack" being very loosely defined.

A stray bullet or a piece of mortar shell landing over the border is good enough for a response in my opinion.

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Response to ColinC (Reply #19)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 02:41 AM

21. The madman will not do that.

They know it could be nuclear winter season for them too.

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Response to Justice matters. (Reply #21)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 02:45 AM

23. Unfortunately I don't think the madman has anything to lose anymore

I very strongly believe he is sick, with perhaps years if not months or days left on his life. He wants to re establish the USSR and all of the Russian Empire colonies before he passes. He will start with all non NATO countries -invading as many as possible, and establish his footing in a strategic position before going all out against NATO.

Hopefully he just dies tomorrow.

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Response to ColinC (Reply #23)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 02:50 AM

24. Let's doubt it. He's not winning in Ukraine.

Street guerrilla for years until he quits or gets ousted internally.

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Response to ColinC (Original post)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 01:50 AM

7. "No fly zones" are more or less acts of war. So, no.

Forget any "police action" or "security" bullshit Americans got used to in the 90s Iraq or more recently the British/French thing in Lybia. That was a euphemism. Always was. Always will be.

Enforcing a "no fly zone" means shooting down planes. Because they won't stop coming into the air space unless you do. You're asking whether the US Air Force should start shooting down Russian planes over Ukraine. That is, and will be reacted to, as an act of war. So you are asking should the US and Russia should engage in war. No. They should not.

That way lies nuclear winter, famine, billions of deaths, and even human extinction.

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Response to RockRaven (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 01:52 AM

9. I sure hope I'm wrong, but I don't think your last sentence is avoidable

...at this point.

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Response to ColinC (Original post)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 02:01 AM

10. No, we should use a small yield tactical nuke or two to target Putin, his family and end this

Cut off the head of the snake, as they would say

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Response to Shanti Shanti Shanti (Reply #10)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 02:07 AM

12. Kinda agree

But a no fly zone is actually far more prudent.

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Response to Shanti Shanti Shanti (Reply #10)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 02:08 AM

13. We may as well launch a full first strike against them

Because the end results will be the same. Full nuclear exchange.

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Response to DetroitLegalBeagle (Reply #13)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 02:20 AM

15. I could go for conventional cruise missiles if we get him out in the open

I don't want to hurt Russian citizens, just take him out, they and the world would thank us

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Response to Shanti Shanti Shanti (Reply #15)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 02:36 AM

20. Russian "silent" nuclear subs not far from our beaches too...

Forget ANY "Fisrt Strike" because that's the last one on ALL sides: Think MAD for real instead.

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Response to Shanti Shanti Shanti (Reply #15)

Sat Feb 26, 2022, 02:42 AM

22. That would still result in war

You don't get to assassinate the leader of a nuclear power and just get away with it. It doesn't matter how much of dick he is, the Russian military and Russian government is not just going to let that happen. There is no way they will let the precedent stand that the West can kill Russian leadership with no consequence whenever it feels like it. If Putin get taken out it needs to be from within, not from the outside. Also, how are the Russians going to know its a conventional warhead? Nuclear tipped cruise missiles have been in existence since the 1960's. I'm definitely not a radar expert, but I can't see a way that radar could determine what type of warhead the missile carried considering the missile itself looks exactly the same regardless of its payload. And I wouldn't expect the Russians to just wait and see, particularly if it were heading towards Putin and other Russian leadership. Decapitation strikes can be seen as immediately preceding a first strike.

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