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Mon Feb 7, 2022, 11:37 AM

I could not believe many of the comments I received earlier today about General Flynn.

So I sent the following letter to the current, Joint Chief of Staff General Mark A. Milley.

Sir,
I am a retired 20 year active duty military veteran who also served another 21 years in Civil Service Acquisitioning of the latest military weapon systems and support equipment, traveling all over the world to introduce field personnel to the latest hardware and software. I have also served as a a witness in the court martial of a Technical Sargent under my supervision for simply not returning his wife' phone calls, for which charges were fortunately dropped.
For as long as I can remember, the military has routinely recalled retired personnel for court martial for various actions they took while on active duty. In most cases, it is enlisted men and rarely an officer.
General Michael Flynn committed treason while on active duty and again since his retirement. I fail to see why he is not recalled and court martialed as an enlisted man would be.
Very Respectfully yours.

60 replies, 11481 views

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Reply I could not believe many of the comments I received earlier today about General Flynn. (Original post)
40RatRod Feb 2022 OP
JustAnotherGen Feb 2022 #1
40RatRod Feb 2022 #4
notinkansas Feb 2022 #2
lagomorph777 Feb 2022 #30
hippywife Feb 2022 #45
Bettie Feb 2022 #3
calimary Feb 2022 #27
calimary Feb 2022 #28
COL Mustard Feb 2022 #42
soldierant Feb 2022 #47
calimary Feb 2022 #54
Tommymac Feb 2022 #35
calimary Feb 2022 #39
hippywife Feb 2022 #46
calimary Feb 2022 #51
hippywife Feb 2022 #53
calimary Feb 2022 #55
hippywife Feb 2022 #56
fightforfreedom Feb 2022 #5
Shrike47 Feb 2022 #6
Effete Snob Feb 2022 #7
Rabrrrrrr Feb 2022 #8
Effete Snob Feb 2022 #9
kcr Feb 2022 #11
Ligyron Feb 2022 #14
Orrex Feb 2022 #31
obamanut2012 Feb 2022 #33
ShazzieB Feb 2022 #48
Rabrrrrrr Feb 2022 #60
Post removed Feb 2022 #13
Effete Snob Feb 2022 #15
GB_RN Feb 2022 #19
COL Mustard Feb 2022 #43
bringthePaine Feb 2022 #10
Ligyron Feb 2022 #12
Picaro Feb 2022 #16
ffr Feb 2022 #17
Karadeniz Feb 2022 #18
keithbvadu2 Feb 2022 #20
calimary Feb 2022 #32
hamsterjill Feb 2022 #21
CaptainTruth Feb 2022 #22
Escurumbele Feb 2022 #23
Maraya1969 Feb 2022 #52
The Unmitigated Gall Feb 2022 #24
brooklynite Feb 2022 #25
msfiddlestix Feb 2022 #40
ananda Feb 2022 #26
AverageOldGuy Feb 2022 #29
BlackSkimmer Feb 2022 #34
slightlv Feb 2022 #36
BlackSkimmer Feb 2022 #37
COL Mustard Feb 2022 #44
slightlv Feb 2022 #38
COL Mustard Feb 2022 #41
stopdiggin Feb 2022 #49
Skittles Feb 2022 #50
LineNew Reply I
lunatica Feb 2022 #57
RANDYWILDMAN Feb 2022 #58
Mr. Scorpio Feb 2022 #59

Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 11:46 AM

1. You are thinking like my mom on this

May I shared your note with her?

She didn't serve - but my dad was an Officer/Green Beret late 50's to mid/late 70's. She's been appalled at the lack of honor displayed by Flynn.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 12:02 PM

4. sure

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 11:46 AM

2. Totally agree. Did he get a blanket pardon from tfg?

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Response to notinkansas (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 02:23 PM

30. Flynn is still doing this shit. Pardons don't cover future offenses.

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Response to notinkansas (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 06:54 PM

45. I don't believe it was a blanket pardon.

Not long after said pardon was issued, I recall reading that it was not, nor were those issued for Bannon and Roger Stone.

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 11:46 AM

3. Let us know if you get an answer

because you are right, he should face some consequences for his actions.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 02:02 PM

27. Definitely let us know!

I’m tempted to add that ask to whatever I call my Congressman/Senators about.

Okay, maybe they’re not in a position (or the right committee) to do anything about it.

HOWEVER… that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t know that it’s an issue for their constituents. It doesn’t mean they shouldn’t get a push or at least a nudge about it.

Remember: they may not be able to do anything significant about it. BUT they’re in Washington DC on our nickel. All day everyday they’re gonna be working with somebody who CAN do something about it. Inevitably. And if a drumbeat starts back home, and/or people are starting to call about it, then it’s on the radar screen. And it just might be something that they decide to have some staffer start looking into it.

AND - word just might start getting around because somebody else in some other Congressmember’s district is calling about this same issue too. They go to lunch together and breakfast meetings together and committee meetings together and cocktail parties together and zoom meetings and conference calls together and … … …

And then it starts becoming “a thing.” “A thing” that starts demanding more attention.

It could also be that maybe your rep actually IS bothered by the same issue “but nobody’s called about it so why bother with that because my people are all calling about taxes/trump/security/benefits/voting rights/the weather …” But now it turns to “hmmm, I guess maybe it’s not just me, after all. I’m starting to get calls about this. Maybe this actually IS something my constituents are bothered about? Maybe I should look into it…”

THAT’S why it’s good to start making noise about it. We’re at the bottom of the influence food chain. But if there’s enough of us starting to rumble about it, it’ll get heard and start having an impact higher up that chain. And THAT’S how changes can be made.

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Response to calimary (Reply #27)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 02:20 PM

28. And one other thing: their STAFFERS.

Don’t forget the impact your calls have on the staff. The people who answer the phones - in the district and in the DC office. They’re the ones on the front lines - the ones who’ll hear from you first. And they keep notes and tally sheets so they can keep track of the calls. Who, from where, about what, and how many about what. Cuz their boss (the legislator) isn’t answering those phones but DOES need to know what his/her constituents are calling about and are pushing for action about. Because that means it’s something that’s demanding his/her attention.

Don’t forget this.

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Response to calimary (Reply #28)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 05:11 PM

42. Just remember the staffers are also the lowest paid in the office

Yes, they have the privilege of public service in the Halls of Congress but they're the bottom rung of the ladder. Voice your concerns but don't take your frustrations out on them. Their jobs probably suck in many ways...don't make them suck more.

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Response to COL Mustard (Reply #42)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 09:01 PM

47. x 1000

I know my congressman's staffters are not only low paid but forced to run personal errands for the Congressman and his wife. That's reom the recently released results of an unvestigation into him

Absolutely be nice to the staffers.

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Response to COL Mustard (Reply #42)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 11:29 PM

54. Definitely.

I've never called and been abusive. Just doesn't seem fair to the frontline folks who absolutely do work for pittance - when they're even paid at all. I wonder if a lot of the folks who answer the phones are interns or even volunteers who are working for free. Whoever is answering the phone probably already takes plenty of abuse from other jerks with entitlement complexes who call in.

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Response to calimary (Reply #27)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 03:58 PM

35. You are just awesome.



That is all.

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Response to Tommymac (Reply #35)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 04:44 PM

39. Awwwwwwww... thanks!

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Response to calimary (Reply #27)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 06:56 PM

46. Must be nice

to be able to even consider bringing it up with your legislators. Here in OK, it's nothing more than a waste of breath - mine and the hot air, along with a big sack of bullshit, I always get in return.

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Response to hippywife (Reply #46)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 10:50 PM

51. It is, but if I was unfortunate enough to have a hostile as my rep, I'd STILL call.

I'd CALL, Dammit!

I kind like imagining that members of the red-team wrecking crew get calls from the blue teasers and the more they get, the more uncomfortable and surrounded and overpowered they feel. And if they aren't on MY team, I WANT them feeling unbalanced, knocked off their game, like the walls closing in, nervous about what to do, unsure and questioning their positions on the issues.

Destabilize the enemy.

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Response to calimary (Reply #51)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 11:12 PM

53. Been there, done that.

Only spinning my wheels to no effect.

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Response to hippywife (Reply #53)

Tue Feb 8, 2022, 01:32 AM

55. Well, just think of it this way...

If you get a shitload of spinning wheels -all spinning about the same complaint, they’re liable to run right over him/her.

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Response to calimary (Reply #55)

Tue Feb 8, 2022, 02:01 AM

56. There aren't enough of those here, okay.

You've no idea what it's like, so let it go.

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 12:07 PM

5. I could not respond to your earlier post.

As a veteran I cannot post how I feel about Flynn. It would be deleted for being too vulgar.

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 12:09 PM

6. Indeed.

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 12:14 PM

7. "the military has routinely recalled retired personnel for court martial"


No it hasn't.

You are not telling the truth.

In the recent decision saying it is unconstitutional, the US District Court for the District of Columbia said:

"The lack of any Supreme Court case addressing the question is likely due in part to the fact that in the 70-year period since the UCMJ explicitly authorized such jurisdiction, the military has so rarely chosen to exercise it. See Bishop, supra note 3, at 332; J. Mackey Ives & Michael J. Davidson, Court-Martial Jurisdiction Over Retirees Under Articles 2(4) and 2(6): Time to Lighten Up and Tighten Up? , 175 Mil. L. Rev. 1, 11(2003)." Larrabee v. Braithwaite, 502 F. Supp. 3d 322, 330 n.8 (D.D.C. 2020)

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Response to Effete Snob (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 12:20 PM

8. Perhaps instead of accusing him of not telling truth, you might suggest first he could be mistaken.

That seems rather over the top to go straight to an accusation.

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Response to Rabrrrrrr (Reply #8)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 12:23 PM

9. An accusation of what?

"Lying" is consciously not telling the truth when one knows it.

Not telling the truth is simply not telling the truth.

The fact of the matter is that in the thread he is complaining about, a link to Larrabee v. Braithwaite was provided, along with a summary of relevant passages. So, it is not as if current, relevant law is unknown to the poster.

It is odd to want the "rule of law" and not actually care what courts have said about it.

If you would like to know exactly what would happen in the proposed scenario, you can too:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.204940/gov.uscourts.dcd.204940.28.0.pdf

As to how "routinely" this happens - that is a factual assertion which is either true or not true.

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Response to Effete Snob (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 12:30 PM

11. Claiming someone is not telling the truth

Strongly implies if not outright states the person is deliberately misleading. Why not simply state they're mistaken?

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Response to kcr (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 12:38 PM

14. Agree.

The connotation of “not telling the truth” is that they’re lying, and is a bit harsh. You’re mistaken” would come across better.

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Response to kcr (Reply #11)


Response to kcr (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 03:08 PM

33. 100% agree

That is absolutely what is implied.

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Response to kcr (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 09:30 PM

48. I absolutely agree.

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Response to Effete Snob (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 8, 2022, 04:30 PM

60. To say "you are not telling the truth" is to say "you are intentionally lying" with judgmentalism

To say "What you are saying is not factual" or "You are saying something that is wrong" or "I think you have misunderstood the facts" is to offer them a space in which they may be speaking falsely but doing so unintentionally.

You offered an accusation.

If you wanted to do so, then fine - have at it. I don't think it's helpful, and we're all on the same side here, so ought to be a little more generous with each other than to just assume the worst possible intentions of someone.

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Response to Effete Snob (Reply #7)


Response to Post removed (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 12:41 PM

15. Perhaps you might actually cite to the case you are talking about

One instance is not "routinely", but perhaps you might identify the case in question. If you are talking about persons being court-martialed after service for acts committed during active service, that is not the same thing.

I actually did research into the question, which is why I pointed out to you that the US District Court for DC considers it unconstitutional.

You want Trump to have had the power to lock up Air Force Reserve Command Colonel Ted Lieu. I get it. It's not happening.

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Response to Effete Snob (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 01:07 PM

19. We're All On The Same Side Here...

Let’s not assume we know what the other person is thinking nor put words in the other person’s mouth.

How about we dial it back a notch or 10 for the sake of civility?

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Response to Effete Snob (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 05:13 PM

43. There have been several instances in recent years of retired military personnel who were recalled

And court martialled. I wouldn't say it's routine, but it has happened. Army and Navy have both done it, and I think Air Force as well.

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 12:24 PM

10. spot on! and don't forget his detestable brother requires justice as well

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 12:31 PM

12. Used to be a measly legal clerk.

Saw some ridiculous railroading of enlisted personnel. I used to exercise a bit of judgment of my own when it came to implementing a reduction in pay although I could do nothing about reductions in rank, etc.

One time there was a big discussion and conundrum over how much bread and water to give a jailed private.

I digress.

Any guesses on the statute of limitations for those who have served? That is, if one even exists.

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 12:45 PM

16. Right on!

Flynn should be in Leavenworth at this point. His initial offense was operating as a foreign agent while under consideration for and then while serving as the President’s National Security Advisor I believe. He went on to become one of the seditious conspiracy principles trying overturn the 2020 presidential election. He’s committed other crimes as well.

Seeing a former lieutenant general in the army behave like this and spout all the crazy shit he’s constantly spouting and seeing him clearly be one of the primary conspiracists—and seeing the Army do fuck all about it constantly amazes me.

He should be recalled to active duty and court martialed as you say.

Thanks for writing that letter.

Kudos.

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 12:48 PM

17. That was awesome!

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 12:51 PM

18. Let's forget about the past and precedent. Flynn's actions have been so flagrant, such a disgrace

to the code of ethics, his court martial is overdue. I doubt his pardon encompasses all his evils. And why is his brother walking around?

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 01:08 PM

20. Patriot?

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #20)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 03:03 PM

32. LOVE this!

Right up there with ol’ Benny-baby.

And as I recall, Benedict Arnold started out as a greatly-admired good guy.

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 01:16 PM

21. Thank you.

Wish more would do the same. Appreciate the effort.

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 01:20 PM

22. Well done. It's important that we speak out.

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Response to Escurumbele (Reply #23)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 11:03 PM

52. Thanks for the links. It clears things up perfectly.

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 01:48 PM

24. Strong work, and thank you.

My son is serving on a carrier. Seems like every 15 minutes I’m checking headlines.

To see this traitor scum walking free and tearing the fabric of our country fills me with a revulsion I really can’t describe in words.

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 01:51 PM

25. They will ignore your letter, and they should.

You are asking the US military to intervene in civilian criminal justice. Can you imagine future military leaders (like General Flynn) arbitrarily deciding to impose military tribunals on civilians they didn't like?.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #25)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 05:04 PM

40. hmm..


From Adm. Bill McRaven to Gen. Michael Hayden and Gen. Martin Dempsey, some of President Donald Trump's more visible critics of late have been retired military officers. And a provision of federal law ... makes it a crime, triable by court-martial," he wrote in a blog post on Lawfare. "But does the Constitution really allow the government to subject to military trial those who have retired from active duty -- in some cases, long ago -- even for offenses committed while they are retired?"

Yes, it does, according to the Supreme Court, in its denial of Larrabee's and Dinger's writs of certiorari.

Retired Maj. Gen. Charles Dunlap, former deputy judge advocate general of the Air Force, concurs.



Link: https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/02/22/supreme-court-retirees-can-be-court-martialed-crimes-committed-after-service.html




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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 02:00 PM

26. Excellent letter.

!!!

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 02:21 PM

29. Everyone take a deep breath . . . RIGHT NOW . . . PLEASE!!

The OP stated something like "the military routinely recalls retired personnel to active duty for court-martial."

Some responses were a bit in-your-face, accusing him of lying or of not knowing what he is talking about;

I served 28 years in the Army. I retired short of 30 because wounds from Vietnam caught up with me and I could not do what my position required. Two tours in the bush in Vietnam with the medals, scars, and bad dreams to prove it.

The OP was not correct in stating "routinely." In fact, the recall to active duty for court-martial is rarely used. Whether he lied, was mistaken, did not check his sources carefully, or simply embellished is for only him to know.

I suggest he post a follow-up, correct his statement, apologize to anyone who was offended.

As for those who called him a liar . . . well . . .

Meanwhile, I'm going to make a mid-afternoon Bloody Mary, watch some Winter Olympics and some YouTube cute kitten videos.

FYI: I wrote to the Chief of Staff of the Army and to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, asking the same thing -- that Flynn be recalled and court-martialed. Not gonna happen. HOWEVER -- if the Jan 6 Committee or DOJ charges him with something, DoD may decide to get involved. Meanwhile, we will just have to live with the ingorant sonofabitch.

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Response to AverageOldGuy (Reply #29)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 03:09 PM

34. I found the part about an NCO being court-martialed for not returning his wife's calls to be

unbelievable as well.


I also was in the military, years ago, but even if I hadn’t been - that part strains credulity.

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Response to BlackSkimmer (Reply #34)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 04:14 PM

36. Not necessarily so...

My ex's first sergeant got involved when he neglected to pick up his young daughter for weekend visitation. The military hierarchy DOES get involved in the civilian lives of present and past military recruits.

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Response to slightlv (Reply #36)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 04:20 PM

37. Not returning phone calls to a spouse is VERY different from neglecting a child.

Plus, OP said the NCO was “court-martialed.”

I was in the USAF, and there are punishments for minor offenses that never go to court-martial. I remember a friend getting an Article 15 for some minor offense.

I never said the military didn’t get involved in private lives; as a gay woman, I’m well aware they did, and no doubt still do.

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Response to AverageOldGuy (Reply #29)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 05:18 PM

44. For an interesting but unrelated example of court martialling a retiree

Look up Army Major General James Grazioplene. He's now a Second Lieutenant. If you haven't heard of him, have a Bloody Mary and get a hot shower ready before you read his tales.

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 04:21 PM

38. As former military, myself,

I can't stomach what Gen Flynn has done. To me, he is a traitor to his country. He has, whether knowingly or not, given aid and comfort to an enemy of this country (Russia), even tho we are not actively in a hot-war type situation. I still consider us to be in a cold war, and tipping towards an active war, what with all the cyberattacks, etc. And I'd still like to see what an unbiased investigation into the election of 2016 would look like. I thought it strange when Trump, upon winning in 2016, immediately turned around and declared his candidacy for 2020. We figured it was for the money. But who knows what other doors it opened for him, as far as planning for a treasonous hit and run at an autocratic "presidency."

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 05:07 PM

41. Somehow he showed up as a potential Facebook friend suggestion

I deleted that entry immediately.

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 09:51 PM

49. what treasonable offenses did Flynn commit while on active duty?

Sorry for not being up to speed here.

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Mon Feb 7, 2022, 10:39 PM

50. as a veteran, I don't understand this either

why can't he be recalled and disciplined?

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Tue Feb 8, 2022, 02:02 AM

57. I

gave you a heart for this!

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Tue Feb 8, 2022, 02:14 AM

58. People up high are protecting this FOOL !

Our government is about how things look not how they should be.

It does not look good to strip a general of his rank etc.
Not a single person saw prison in the 2008 financial meltdown, but we still gave the banks a huge bailout and they are back bigger and fatter then ever.
What Nixon did was not that bad...
Trump didn't kill that many people or break that many laws...

You get the point...Laws and stuff are for the little people

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Response to 40RatRod (Original post)

Tue Feb 8, 2022, 09:45 AM

59. Another USAF retiree here...

I wholeheartedly agree with EVERYTHING you've just posted.

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