General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOmicron Threatens Red America
In many communities, most adults remain unvaccinated.https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/17/briefing/omicron-spread-red-america.html
Tucker Carlson could do it. So could Laura Ingraham, Mark Levin or Donald Trump himself. One of these conservative figures could go on the air and explain that the Omicron variant has placed much of their audience in grave danger. They could remind people that they have been skeptical of vaccines at times but that Omicron is different. It is so contagious that it may quickly sweep the country.
As they issued this warning, they could still take their usual swipes at the political left, mocking panicky liberals for wearing masks outdoors and forcing children to sit apart in cold schoolyards. Conservatives dont need to do any of that; they just need to take a Covid-19 vaccine the Trump vaccine that could save their life.
I dont have any illusions about how likely this scenario is, but I do think that unvaccinated Americans who are disproportionately Republican are now in even more danger than a few weeks ago. Omicron seems to be qualitatively more contagious than any earlier variant. As my colleague Emily Anthes writes, in a roundup of the latest developments: In South Africa, Omicron spread twice as fast as the highly infectious Delta variant. In Britain, officials have estimated that 200,000 people are becoming infected with Omicron every day. In Denmark, Omicron cases are doubling roughly every two days.
Needlessly
In the U.S., partisanship is the biggest factor determining vaccination rates. If Democratic voters made up their own country, it would be one of the worlds most vaccinated, with more than 91 percent of adults having received at least one shot. Only about 60 percent of Republican adults have done so. This vaccination gap has created a huge gap in death rates, one that has grown sharply during the second half of the year.
snip
Botany
(71,876 posts)We should not be going through this 'cept for MAGA idiots with their MDs from Google Med School & Facebook U. have decided not to get vaccinated and they became "hosts" to the virus where it can live and mutate.
Red line in graph July spike = delta
Nov/Dec. spike = omnicron
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and all democratic principles. Democrats would pour out into the streets to demand and give care to people dying outside hospitals.
Russia and China are too civilized for the "solution" you advocate. That's how extreme it is. It might find a home in NK for any nutcases who defied the government's edict to be vaccinated, but care would be denied in the jails and prisons they were sent to for attitude adjustment.
Botany
(71,876 posts)there has been a # of times the hospital has not been able to give care because they are filled up
w/Covid Idiots
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)genocide of this group to, I assume practically speaking, giving them the finger. Generally speaking, I don't believe DU is too good for that.
Botany
(71,876 posts)1) If people end up in some kind of palliative only care because they refused to get vaccinated
it is on them. It is not me or anybody else.
2) By refusing to get the vaccine they are becoming hosts to the virus where it can grow and
mutate. aka spreading the disease.
3) I still remember the case of a boy in Florida last summer who couldn't get into an ER for
pain management of his cancer because all the beds were filled w/C-19 patients who refused to
get vaccinated.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)accidental about the protections that guard our right to life. Of course it's not on you.
Response to Hortensis (Reply #44)
Eliot Rosewater This message was self-deleted by its author.
azureblue
(2,261 posts)should be established. isolated as if it were smallpox, and with a set number of beds. And if the hospital has no more Covid beds they should go find another hospital. And not take up beds for those who need it.
JudyM
(29,485 posts)inthewind21
(4,616 posts)Not genocide.
roamer65
(36,908 posts)Im in your camp, Botany.
There will be 3 groups in a couple of years.
1. Vaccinated
2. Recovered
3. Dead
Botany
(71,876 posts)roamer65
(36,908 posts)The only way one should be going around in MI without a mask is if you are triple vaxxed.
GB_RN
(2,968 posts)Clowns like the ones you picture are partly why I went back to school. I got tired of the increased COVID risk from the antivaxxers and and MAGAt Covidiots.
Tree Lady
(11,979 posts)Of absence, don't know why but I just thought she needed a break from all of this.
GB_RN
(2,968 posts)Providers and nurses are burning out at unbelievable rates thanks to COVID and the deniers/antivaxxers.
Trueblue Texan
(2,766 posts)I'm two years from retirement and every day I have to talk myself into not calling it quits early. I am so burnt out, worn out, disgusted with it all. It's all I can do to force myself to remember why I'm there every day.
Moostache
(10,063 posts)This is NOT an extreme position.
These people - the intentionally unvaxxed - are biological terrorists, full stop.
Their "choice" is to remain unprotected against serious illness and unmitigated against potential infection. That allows the virus to find new hosts and ample re estate to replicate, mutate and make existing vaccines less effective.
Treating these people as priority cases that cause other care to be denied others is the extreme position.
Exclusion from the socal contract here is a voluntary act. Not a government pogrom.
I invite them to pray for healing if they refuse to take all available precautions.
notinkansas
(1,106 posts)isn't it also unethical to turn away non-covid patients who desperately need immediate care because no space has been reserved for non-covid patients? Some of those patients are also facing death.
There has to be some provision made to treat the non-covid emergencies.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and both the lives of patients and legal exposures of the institutions are taken very seriously. Of course there is provision to treat non-Covid emergencies.
Since virtually all of us will need hospitalization, it should be reassuring to know that in our nation people are never targeted for exclusion from care because they belong to a certain group and that the right to life means that all people have a right to medical care. Even if the Republicans were to impose an authoritarian state, it's extremely unlikely that any hospital would exclude Democrats from care, even if some of us do eat children's faces and outraged social media mobs angrily demand we be tossed out to die.
ejbr
(5,867 posts)Of those who refuse to get vaccinated appears greater than your concern for those whose sickness was not their choice. They f'd around, now let THEM found out, not the rest of us
CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)notinkansas
(1,106 posts)Many hospitals have had to divert ambulances to other hospitals - even to other states - for care because their emergency rooms are overrun with covid patients. Sometimes a hospital cannot be found for a non-covid person requiring special care because of the same reason. Sometimes those people die when they normally would survive with treatment.
Struggling hospitals are in a no-win situation under this scenario to be sure. I expect they feel they are doing the best they can, but I'm not so sure decisions are always made that will allow for care for emergency non-covid patients.
https://www.koin.com/news/health/coronavirus/oregon-hospital-overcrowding-causing-patient-deaths/
As unvaccinated people with COVID-19 fill Oregon hospitals to their capacity and beyond, other patients are dying because they cant get needed care.
Erik Thorsen, CEO of Columbia-Memorial Hospital in Astoria, has had several patient deaths in his 25-bed facility during the recent pandemic spike. They died, he says, because they could not be transferred to larger, more specialized hospitals for the more complex care they needed.
Theyre folks that need a heart specialist or need to go to a (cardiac catheter) lab, he said of the patients whove died, adding that they were all non-COVID.
NH Ethylene
(30,962 posts)Anything goes.
Even excluding Democrats, under the right set of political circumstances.
It's not a door that should be opened.
azureblue
(2,261 posts)and they refused. Then, when the catch Covid, they have the gall to demand treatment that is being taken away from others, because their choice made the sick. Nope. They decided to go that route - let them continue without medical care, to its conclusion. There are others who desperately need medical care, who are being sidelined because of these self assholes.
Family member has cancer, and got really sick from chemo, and had to go to the hospital with low hemoglobin. The effin covid anti vaxxers had taken up all the beds in ICU, and he had a mild heart attack while waiting for a bed in ICU. A family member saw it on the monitor and had to yell for the code team, who was (you guessed it) trying to save an intubated anti vaxxer. Took the hospital 2 days to get family member a bed in ICU. Meanwhile, FM is in ER taking up a bed that someone else could be using. The hospital was over loaded with anti Vaxxers and top add to it, idiotic family members demanding some cure they heard about from Trump. Denying the patient had Covid (calling in the flu), and being belligerent. FM said he heard one say he didn't want "no tracking device jabbed into his arm", and was refusing to be treated. Refusing to leave the ER even though there are rules the ER and number of family members allowed. Same bunch of anti vaxxers standing it the hallways of the ER and making nurses and doctors walk around them. FM said the ER had to get security to precede a patient on a gurney, just to get the idiots out of the way.
Nope.
NH Ethylene
(30,962 posts)Maybe there should be dedicated wings for non-Covid patients which maintain a certain number of vacancies all the time no matter what's going on elsewhere in the hospital.
Gore1FL
(21,644 posts)There are needed hospital beds. Those that chose to avoid protection should not take precedent over, for example, heart patients that took their medicine.
NH Ethylene
(30,962 posts)Picking and choosing who to treat based on their behaviors is a slippery slope to a very bad place.
TheRealNorth
(9,626 posts)A covidiot that has been stabilized may get a bed instead of someone that got vaccinated.
Gore1FL
(21,644 posts)My preference that the people supporting society get preferential treatment to those tearing it down is secondary.
AncientAndy
(73 posts)an unvaccinated 30 year old probably has a better chance of surviving than a vaccinated 75 year old. So who would get the bed?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)when crisis standards of care would be implemented and the major criterion is likelihood of survival if given care. It would only be one of several factors predicting chance of survival. (Who knows, maybe if survival was a coin flip, silent notions of who "deserves" more come into play but never written down.)
It would not be a blanket exclusionary factor for receiving medical care.
What you say about the cardiac patient who took his meds is, of course, reasonable in itself.
But behind the anger on all social media sites these days is not just that decent concern but also frustrated partisan rage against the other faction. Both are real. Both sides have some who are eager to weaponize the medical system (the authorities) against the enemy, using the innocent as the rationale.
The latter is what people try to do who sic the police (the authorities) on members of a group they don't like. Gotta keep the authoritarian beast chained, because it can be turned on all of us. We've been watching it breaking its chains on the right, where mobs are embracing fascism to weaponize government against Democrats. Claiming protection of innocents and The American Way as their rationale.
Btw, a basic guideline for me is, never join an angry, excited mob I wouldn't run toward in a dark ally.
NH Ethylene
(30,962 posts)At my age I tend to be cool-headed about nearly everything and am often dismayed by the 'let them all die!' passions expressed here by my fellow Dems.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)than the insistence of some. If I thought the toxic phenomena spread on social media were representive of our fellow Dems, I'd be an ex-Democrat and trying to escape town before it got me too. But of course it's not, as you underline.
Happy Saturday.
NH Ethylene
(30,962 posts)It's morally wrong, of course. Even mass murderers are given health care.
Prof. Toru Tanaka
(2,210 posts)I agree with Botany; they have completely exhausted my patience and I have no sympathy for them whatsoever.
My spouse and I got our vaccine and booster and we mask and social distance. If they can't (won't) do it also, then the hell with them. Where is THEIR personal responsibility to their country and family values they love to yack about so much?
And those T-shirts....funny how they call US commies.
CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)When they take icu beds away from people need them for things other than covid it is a rational position.
Lovie777
(14,103 posts)multigraincracker
(33,637 posts)White Replacement Theory. I imagine there will be parents at school board meetings demanding it be taught.
Alexander Of Assyria
(7,839 posts)and their fascist media panic and the Big Lie will be flushed down the toilet bowel along with the science denier shit.
Same shit, really.
Botany
(71,876 posts)But i have no shits left to give about those idiots who have kept the pandemic going by
willing becoming hosts to the virus. They don't want to believe in the science behind the
vaccine then they don't need the science behind Drs, nurses, & hospitals either.
JudyM
(29,485 posts)Alexander Of Assyria
(7,839 posts)captain queeg
(11,686 posts)and travel, well be seeing numbers like the previous worst peak. That itll be hitting RWers will no doubt give me some satisfaction, but theyll be spreading it to others and moreover providing plentiful subjects for mutations. Just looking at the graphs its obvious that a new variation comes along at regular intervals. Id been hoping, like many others, that we were starting to get past the pandemic. But the way it looks this is the new reality going forward. Id thought that as people got sick and or died many people would see the light who had been resisting vaccines and other precautions. That hasnt really happened. Maybe enough of them will die off to reduce their political clout. Or maybe itll at least drive liberal voters to make sure they vote. I think Covid is the only reason we got rid of TFG. Maybe by mid terms the turnout will be good enough to solidify our position.
Botany
(71,876 posts)... the virus on purpose.
wnylib
(23,690 posts)Or, for short, the GOP virus.
bucolic_frolic
(45,941 posts)Sadly I think that is true. 2020 was, in essence, a non-combative campaign. The Biden campaign was cerebrally executed by policy and strategy without a lot of travel. Trump barely had a target to shoot at. Joe aced the debates with controlled dislike for his opponent. Removing Covid from the year alters almost all of that.
CrispyQ
(37,653 posts)If he had handled Covid like an adult, like a real president would have, instead of politicizing it & making it about him, he probably would have won a second term.
I'll never forget the rage I felt when I heard that Jared told Trump to ignore the pandemic when it first showed up in the US, because it was only in blue states. The last science class I had was in high school, but even I know that something contagious doesn't stay in one place.
Eliot Rosewater
(32,256 posts)His taking power again is the end of America and the end of us.
louis-t
(23,495 posts)If he had done one thing. "We have a little problem, we're going to have to mask up and work really hard to get a vaccine. A temporary shutdown, keep a little distance between us for a bit." He was totally incapable of any compassion. It was all about him. Afraid someone might think it's his fault. Remember what Chris Christie said about getting COVID? TFG asked him "You're not going to say I gave it to you, are you?"
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I'm all in favor of letting the National Guard (or FEMA) set up a "field hospital" with cots so that these people will have a place to die. (Mother Teresa was won a Nobel Prize in 1979 and was canonized in 2016 for doing damn near the same thing... so let's follow her lead!)
This is a death-cult... it's what they want. They've committed to it. So when Death comes a-knocking... there's no take-backs. A heated or air-conditioned field hospital tent would give them a place out of the weather to draw their last breaths... or drown in their own fluids.
I think we can spare the morphine... but there's an oxygen shortage, so too bad. I know this will make their loved-ones sad... but as they've so often said: "FUCK YOUR FEELINGS!" So I'm sure they can understand where we're coming from.
I'm sure there are enough county fairground fields (or other open spaces) that can accommodate the tents and porta-potties.
I should have invested in the body-bag industry. Or the funeral home industry. Or any company that provides funeral services: vault-makers, casket makers, urn makers, embalming chemical makers, pancake makeup makers, furnace makers, etc.
Probatim
(2,920 posts)I will add that it offends me that they deny science but will be the first in line for monoclonal antibodies and ventilators when they do get sick.
I've thought that if you're going to deny science, deny all of it, then it occurs to me their cafeteria style science denial matches their selection of Biblical passages.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)TheRealNorth
(9,626 posts)Botany
(71,876 posts)Use recycled wood to build the cots and make 'em so they can become coffins with
a big eye hook* on one end so a fork lift or bobcat can carry the box and body out at
one time with a chain and then drive right up to the pit and drop 'em in.
Minimize exposure to others at all time.
*
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Perfect! (I was imagining today's white-top tents... but... if there are any military surplus tents like this that can be used one final time, that would save money.)
There was no shortage of tents when Trump was detaining/separating children from their families. Let's use those.
Botany
(71,876 posts)Make sure the tents have heating and cooling, give them all the pain killers they want,
plenty of food and water, and minimize their contacts with uninfected people. Remember
nobody needs to go through this crap because they just need the vaccine to avoid having
to go to "a tent city."
Knight of the Middle
(63 posts)Don't tell the fools!
Mister Ed
(6,269 posts)They refuse to be told.
Ford_Prefect
(8,167 posts)or almost survive will be the genesis of the next variant after Omicron. This matters because Omicron has already demonstrated a marked ability to attack those who are fully vaccinated. In Britain there is serious concern over how many vaccinated people have been hit by Omicron. One report said it was more than 20% of new infections in London area.
The important part of this situation is the probability that more variants are coming and as long as there is a large supply of unvaccinated hosts whatever the next 2 or variants are will spread rapidly throughout those hosts.
Herd Immunity, or something like it, will never happen as long as roughly 50% of the population isn't helping contain the virus.
Bernardo de La Paz
(50,303 posts)monkeyman1
(5,109 posts)appalachiablue
(42,433 posts)Maine Abu El Banat
(3,479 posts)They cared more about stopping black history from being taught than saving their own lives. We all make our choices. They've made theirs.. RIP!
Tommymac
(7,304 posts)It is so important to start the Democratic grass roots GOTV for 2022 NOW.
And hold the MSM accountable NOW.
And get some of the main insurrectionist LEADERS helo legally accountable NOW.
This Pandemic is not happening in a vacuum.
Lonestarblue
(11,351 posts)Articles will say that Bidens poll numbers are down because he hasnt contained the virusand never mention that it is Republicans actively working to spread the virus. Articles will mention the number of cases and deaths but only occasionally mention that it is Republicans who are getting sick and dying. Just saying red states are hit harder doesnt clarify enough for people who are too sharp to start with those who live in red states will assume that it is the minorities who are getting sick and dying, and theyre okay with that (and some of them are minorities, of course). One of Trumps most pernicious actions early in the pandemic was withholding aid from Democratic states because the early data showed that it was minorities who were suffering most from Covid.
The media regularly prints negative headlines about Biden and Democrats. Id like to see headlines that say that governors like DeSantis and Abbott are deliberately working to spread the virus. Its the truth because of their anti-masking policies and rhetoric about freedom to not be vaccinated.
GoneOffShore
(17,541 posts)appalachiablue
(42,433 posts)bucolic_frolic
(45,941 posts)They've invented every excuse they can to continue down that path. Have at it, guys.
DBoon
(22,913 posts)Not just because it initially hit urban democratic voters first.
Because like any true fascist, they aim to remove the "weak" from society so the "strong" may prevail.
OldBaldy1701E
(5,865 posts)Orrex
(63,760 posts)Sensible America has all but literally begged them to adopt even the most basic standards of safety and prevention, but MAGAT America has rejected these "attacks on freedom" and has continued on its merry, ignorant way.
Now they're paying the price.
Well, fuck them. We've pushed for compassion and responsibility and basic hygiene, and all along they've mocked us.
Fuck them.
Historic NY
(37,724 posts)nwliberalkiwi
(372 posts)Let your unvaxed Grandma die in the gutter, and not clog up the hospitals. You Right-wing assholes---Fuck Your Feelings!!!
doc03
(36,274 posts)milestogo
(17,063 posts)IronLionZion
(46,743 posts)by denying them treatments for COVID like ivermectin and hydroxycholoroquine
These people are dying to own the libs. And that's their choice. They've had enough chances to take free vaccines and wear a simple mask.
There must be some good health reforms in the works if they're paying for ad time to oppose it already.
TheRealNorth
(9,626 posts)And telling them to stay the fuck out of the hospital.
IronLionZion
(46,743 posts)since they can't trust what the hospitals are giving them and know so much more than the doctors.
Joinfortmill
(15,855 posts)gulliver
(13,303 posts)They want the risk. Pointing it out just makes them happier they aren't vaccinated. It makes them feel free. Tell them their freedom isn't free. Make them pay every cent of the huge added hospital costs they create by charging the unvaccinated higher insurance rates. That will get shots in arms
quakerboy
(14,064 posts)Remind them that for every Murikan that dies of covid.. that leaves a job open that will eventually need to be filled by immigrant workers that we will need to let into the country.
Captain Zero
(7,321 posts)Javaman
(62,938 posts)they would be shouted down as now part of the "deep state".
we are so far past the stage of reasoning with the anti-vaxx/conspiracy morons. nothing at all, at this point, could turn back the clock.
housecat
(3,137 posts)unvaccinated medical staff can work there. Let the selfish anti-whatevers pay their own bills
YP_Yooper
(291 posts)NYC is clearly not red, but the city's daily life looks ominous if, and it's a big if, omicron is anything like delta. It's evading the vaccinated, so everyone needs to look at the calendar to get an idea when you need boosted again, not just the red (or rather orangutan) America. The chart also doesn't reflect that the more red things go, the worse the health, worse medical care, more rural, and is just not an (R) mental deficiency.
Celerity
(46,154 posts)than Dems are, so no, it is not dismissive. If you had a Red area with the population density and size of NYC, it would be a true shitshow of death.
The Rethugs are a death cult, and not at all just limited in that framing to Covid.
Glaisne
(536 posts)for Trumper MAGA morons dying from their own willful stupidity. This only helps overcome the widespread voter suppression and election rigging that is going on in swing states. So I see this as a positive.
lindysalsagal
(21,963 posts)If you tell them they're victims, and being ripped-off, they'll demand equity. They're too stupid to figure it out.
NH Ethylene
(30,962 posts)People tend to be distrustful of salespeople. It's better to make something just a little scarce, be a little bit indifferent to whether people get it or not.
ellie
(6,943 posts)It's not like they weren't warned, cajoled, or begged.
llashram
(6,269 posts)are adults and when that tube is shoved down their throats, so be it. My only concern about them is that they are like the plague carriers of other times. They hurt innocent people. They KILL innocent people. #1 above has it right. Any concern for a trump lowlife shows an incredible weakness for the enemy.
They do not care. Why should we?
Bettie
(16,782 posts)if a bunch more red hats die. I am done.
former9thward
(33,153 posts)So far omicron is just showing mild symptoms.
madville
(7,447 posts)Anyone cheering on and wishing for the deaths of the unvaccinated hopefully isnt considering the potentially 10s of millions of traditionally Democratic voters nationwide that are lumped in that group. BBB I seriously doubt the unvaccinated 62% of Black Floridians are all Trump-loving right-wingers, as many consider all the unvaccinated.
IronLionZion
(46,743 posts)many of the unvaccinated are nonpolitical. I would think most of the vaccinated are Dems.
BlueWavePsych
(2,988 posts)Deminpenn
(15,896 posts)and now Darwinism is at work.
mnhtnbb
(31,752 posts)they are literally killing themselves off. How stupid is that? The only problem I have with it is they are overwhelming hospitals when they get sick. Their greed and determination not to care about anyone but themselves is tying up resources. Put them in a tent in the hospital parking lot and give them palliative care if they are unvaccinated. Fu*k'em.
Missn-Hitch
(1,383 posts)azureblue
(2,261 posts)Me, Me, Me. They don't care if they spread Covid, they don't care if they kill anyone as a result. I have no sympathy for people who knowingly try to kill other people. If they catch it and are not vaccinated by choice, then put them in a hospice until they pass. They made their choice, let them die from it, and stop wasting money saving them Let the new strain kill them off - it's called Darwin's law.