I think this singling out of Lance Armstrong is bullshit.

[redgreenandblue]

It should be clear by now that anyone who has ever come anywhere close to achieving any sort of fame in cycling was doped out of their ass. Singling out one person, essentially simply for being the best at what everyone was doing, to catch all the shit seems like a witch hunt.

If Armtrong has to give up his titles, then how about forcing everyone who made a buck from this "sport" to pay back the cash?

[lunatica]

1. they should pay it all back

[1springhill]

44. i say make it legal.............

it's too pervasive in every sport now...........I don't think there is any going back.

[lunatica]

45. Or make it a requirement so the playing field is still even

[bettyellen]

2. The bigger they come, the harder they fall

I dont feel sorry for him.
Hell still be a millionaire after all this, just less of a hero. And that seems entirely appropriate to me.

[1-Old-Man]

3. I only ask one question, how many people of those he beat could have beat him had he been clean?

and if there is any possibility that the answer is 1 or greater than take back every single win he ever cheated his way into.

[redgreenandblue]

6. Problem is that at least the next 30 that came behind him

where full of loads of shit themselves. The clean person he couldn't have beaten had he been clean has never been heard of.

In other words: The problems are systemic. Why single out one person for scrutiny when this person acted within the defined parameters of the system. Why not, say, revoke all titles of the last 30 years, since likely every single one of them were illegitimate.

[1-Old-Man]

9. I agree. Revoke them all.

[NYtoBush-Drop Dead]

4. And the difference between this witch hunt

and McCarthyism? Any proof or all hearsay? 15 year old urine that was "stored safely?" WTF?

[cali]

5. Yesterday I was talking to my physical therapist

who used to race and he said essentially the same thing. Then we started trying to find a sport where doping isn't rampant. We couldn't- except for bowling.

[redgreenandblue]

8. My uncle is a cycler.

It was always kind of an open secret for all involved people, that you will never get anywhere without doping. My uncle never doped, but pretty much maxed out what was possible otherwise. The level of performance at the top is simply beyond what is possible for ordinary humans.

[GoCubsGo]

7. Yep.

In at least one of those Tour de France races he won, 20 of the 21 top finalists were caught doping. Yet, he's the only one they're going after? I'm not trying to defend Armstrong here. But, it's not like his doping gave him any advantage, when all of his opponents were doing it, too.

[Swede Atlanta]

10. I have to disagree......

I think Armstrong is getting what he deserves. That statement is premised on an acceptance of the findings that have been made. He inspired so many and was presumed to be (and would have been even without doping) a world-class athlete. When you betray trust by not being what you project I have no sympathy at all.

I don't disagree, either, with your concern that others were similarly doping. It may well be that the use of performance-enhancing drugs was widespread. If so the sport itself needs to look in the mirror.

But the hero worship we place on sports figures, actors, musicians, etc. when we denigrate teachers, firefighters and the working men and women is misplaced.

I have nothing against honoring those that excel in their professions, including sports and entertainment. But they are no better or provide any more value to society than a good teacher that prepares 30 students as they progress in their education, a firefighter or EMT that saves property and lives, etc. They provide no more value than the factory worker that skillfully oversees the assembly of a new car that is safe.

[redgreenandblue]

12. Maybe he is getting what he deserves.

The thing is, the sport is what it is. Illegal chemicals were used by every cycler who has done anything that put his name in a headline. So yes, the sport needs to look in a mirror.

And I agree, the hero worship for athletes is misplaced.

[Spider Jerusalem]

11. Sure but Armstrong was the dominant competitor in an era of doping.

And by all accounts encouraged his teammates to use performance-enhancing substances and bullied and ran out of the sport anyone who spoke up against the practice, and because of his success he was able to get away with it. If you're going to single out anyone at all it should be Lance Armstrong.

[fleur-de-lisa]

13. Now you know how the Saints fans feel. - eom

[KurtNYC]

14. I think kids should a have a range of areas to pick their heroes from -- not just sports

It sells bikes and yellow bracelets though and that's what kept the charade going. "Lie Strong"

[porphyrian]

15. Now that athletes in every sport are doping, does anyone really give a shit any more?

I understand being upset about it when it was only the East Germans or something, but now everyone does it. The playing field is leveled. Do we give a shit? I don't think I give a shit.

[wilt the stilt]

16. The europeans hated that an American was winning

and that is how it all started. I have watched cycling for 40 years. They have all doped.

[Enrique]

17. other riders have been sanctioned just like him

Armstrong is just the most prominent one.

[WeekendWarrior]

18. They trying to send a message

Which is why they always go for the biggest fish.

[BeyondGeography]

19. Mostly, it confirms that we just lived through one of the most fucked up decades ever

It's all of a piece with "prosperity" that was fueled by mortgage debt and non-collateralized CDO's. A war sold on the strength of non-existent WMD's. So I'm enjoying it, in a rubber-necking kind of way.

[Nye Bevan]

20. YES. Why the hell don't they go after Floyd Landis too? (nt)

[hughee99]

46. I think that's partly how they got Floyd Landis to provide all this info on Armstrong.

If I understand correctly, Landis is one of the main accusers and "star witnesses".

[Daemonaquila]

21. It's all bull.

Doping. Doesn't. Matter. It just doesn't. It's as important a Honey Boo Boo. Time to leave sports to the entertainment figures to do as they please, and get onto more important subjects.

[sadbear]

22. If you gotta make an example of someone, who are you going to pick?

The guy who always loses, or the guy who always wins?

[redgreenandblue]

24. Everyone.

If they wanted to send a message, revoke all titles, punish the sponsors etc.

[sadbear]

26. So basically, you'd prefer they blow the whole thing up?

I don't really care either way, I just think that's an interesting proposition.

[redgreenandblue]

27. Pretty much.

They can start over with "fresh" athletes.

I know this would never happen, but I think it would be a radical yet sensible course of action.

[DanTex]

23. Well, I guess this is progress.

For a long time, the Lance Armstrong apologists would insist that he was clean, and he was tested hundreds of times, and that everyone who suggested he was doping was just jealous. At least now we're on to the second string of excuses, which is that since other people cheated, it was OK for Armstrong to lie and cheat also.

There are a lot of problems with the "everyone did it, so it is OK" theory. The first is that not everyone did it. Some riders tried to race clean during the Armstrong era, for example Christophe Bassons. In fact Bassons even tried to speak up about the doping in the sport, but, like other whistleblowers, he was bullied and hounded by one Lance Armstrong, was subsequently ostracized by the peleton and dropped out.

Also, not everyone doped as much, or as enthusiastically, as Armstrong. As the USADA evidence makes clear Armstrong, was a driver of the doping operation on the USPS team -- he paid over $1M dollars over his career to Dr Michele Ferrari for administering the doping program, and he along with the team leadership forced others to either dope or else leave the team. So let's not pretend that "everyone doing it" meant that it was a level playing field.

Finally, in case you haven't noticed, a lot of other prominent cyclists over the last 15 years have in fact lost titles to doping, including Floyd Landis and Alberto Contador. It's not like Lance is the only guy who got popped. But, neither Lance nor his apologists seemed anxious to jump to the defense of those other guys with the "everyone's doing it" excuse. I wonder why that is?

But now that Lance has been exposed as not just a doper, but a ringleader in the biggest doping operation in the history of cycling, suddenly being a serial doper is OK.

[redgreenandblue]

25. I don't say it is ok.

I say the consequences should be bigger than punishing one guy.

[DanTex]

29. In that case I agree.

But like I said, other people have been punished for doping.

In the OP, you characterized USADA as going on a "witch hunt". Well, a key element of a witch hunt is that there are no actual witches. That's not the case here.

[frazzled]

28. He was the ringleader

He forced his teammates into doping, often against their wills: with the threat that they'd be kicked off the team. He lied and denied, never owned up to it. He profited like no other cyclist ever had.

The Greeks called it hubris. He deserves all the tragedy he is getting now. The House of Armstrong has fallen.

[obamanut2012]

34. There is zero proof he "forced" anyone

That is nothing but his teammates refusing to take responsibility for their actions. They had every right to refuse to juice and to report Lance and everyone else. They choose to not do so. Most of them continued to juice after no longer riding with Armstrong. I guess Lance must have held their children hostage or something.

All BS.

[frazzled]

37. It was the testimony of dozens

Please accept that your hero was no hero. My husband (a dedicated cyclist) worshipped at the altar of Armstrong for years. It took him a long time, but he has fully accepted that the man was a skunk.

[BlueMan Votes]

30. So- Who becomes the winners in the races he was stripped of winning...?

Everyone was doping, so it WAS an 'even-playing-field', and Lance WON.

btw- are they going to make him un-fuck Sheryl Crow as well?

[jmowreader]

51. No one

According to last night's news, no winner will be named for the seven Tours he was stripped of...admission they can't find an honest man.

This speaks to our hubris. We want our bicyclists to go 50 mph and our football players to knock down buildings with their heads, our janitors to live in mansions and our raiders to buy $50 billion companies. Then we're shocked when we find our cyclists are on drugs, our football players' brains have been beaten to jelly, our janitors' toxic mortgages threw them into the streets and our raiders have found a legal way to print their own money.

[obamanut2012]

31. 100% agree

[Stargazer09]

32. It stinks

Everyone knows that just about every professional cyclist doped to aid their performance. That's a given. It's a brutal sport, and cheaters get rewarded as long as they don't get caught.

I don't really like Armstrong. He always came across as arrogant and somewhat of a jerk.

However, if the only evidence they have against him is a collection of personal testimonies, then he shouldn't be stripped of his titles. He passed the drug tests. Most of his competitors passed the drug tests. They aren't going after anyone but Armstrong. (Landis doesn't count, since he actually failed the drug tests and deserved to lose the title.)

You can't go back and say that Armstrong only succeeded because of doping. Since he passed the drug tests, you can't prove that he cheated during the races. If he doped in between races to help with his training, would that really count as cheating? How is that different than eating a special diet or drinking a specially-formulated energy drink?

I am glad that cycling is trying to clean up the sport. I'd love to be able to watch the Tour de France without wondering how many drugs the athletes are using.

But I really think this vendetta against Armstrong has gone too far.

[obamanut2012]

35. +1 -- this exactly

[BlueStreak]

33. They aren't singling his out. That's why they left those years with no winner.

That is a clear admission that they believed everybody in contention was doping.

[obamanut2012]

36. Then they are singling him out

If they think everyone else was solo doping, then everyone else should also be investigated. If not, then a winner should be declared.

[BlueStreak]

40. He was clearly the worst offender, doing it on a massive scale over a period of 7 years

It is reasonable for them to try to put that era behind them and concentrate on getting the sport clean again.

If they had named other riders to be the winners for those years, without undertaking a similar investigation, I would agree with you.

They did not do that. I think they made the best decision under the circumstances.

When can we expect Armstrong to take responsibility for his actions, rather than trying to throw all his teammates under the bus? That is the question that you should be asking, IMHO.

[hughee99]

47. I don't think it's clear he was the worst offender, but he was clearly the most successful one.

The person who receives the most attention for their rise will also receive the most for their fall.

[BlueStreak]

49. Good point. In any case, ,his offenses were on such a grand scale

that nobody has any business defending that.

It isn't personal. On a personal level, I wish he would come clean. We have a great capacity for forgiveness, and I'd like to see him resume doing good things in the area of fighting cancer.

But until he admits what he did and asks for forgiveness, he will probably be treated as a pariah. He cannot be a role model for anything at this point.

[dmkinsey]

38. I think your premise is faulty

Lance Armstrong is not being "singled out"
He's finally receiving the same sanction as others of his era. Armstrong fought so stridently that he effectively delayed his day of reckoning.
Practically all the riders of the cheating era have been caught and punished.
Some have served their penalty time and returned, like David Millar.
Others have gone away,like Jan Ulrich.
Others have died, like Marco Pantani.

Lance deserves this. It should have happened sooner.

[randome]

39. I'm sure the officials are simply jealous of anyone who can ride a bike.

Sorry your hero is tarnished. Maybe you should be careful about who you put on a pedestal next time.

[hifiguy]

41. Meh. Cheating in cycling was the standard operating procedure

for decades. No one at the top levels was clean. Cycling makes boxing look clean and legit.

[spanone]

42. gotta start somewhere and the top seems like a good place

[woofless]

43. This smarmy, self absorbed, holier-than-thou piece of shit has it coming to him.

It is one thing to excell due to doping. It is another thing altogether to hold ones self out to be a model of behaviour and clean living. Fuck him and the needle he rode in on.

Woof

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

48. After how he treated Sheryl Crow and then kissing Bush, Jr,'s ass, I don't feel the least bit sorry

for him. The guy is a straight up asshole. Lying through his teeth.

[joeybee12]

50. You're right...and they're trying to make it seem like everyone else doped

because Lance did it, like he's the ringleader, like he forced them to dope...it's a piece of shit conclusion.

[Nye Bevan]

52. Oh, the poor little lamb.

How dare those big fat meanies be so horrible to him.

[joeybee12]

53. Yeah, Lance held a gun to their heads and said, Dope or else...

Read Ty Taggart's bs report before you comment please.

[Jakes Progress]

54. If you don't like Lance

because he doped, then you have to wipe out the last two decades of cycling. Ignore them. All that you watched for years was all hokum. Tygart just had a bee up his ass about Lance. And had to have headlines to justify his budget. Tygart is the Ken Starr of sports.

He is supposed to help sports in the US be more drug free. He just proved that there is absolutely no way to prove that an athlete is not doping. Not a single sports figure can claim to be drug free. Every gold medal from the last Olympics is suspect. You can't prove they didn't dope. Just as Tygart. Without a confession or a multi-million dollar investigation complete with inquisition type tactics, you can't prove they doped. Stop the testing if it doesn't prove anything.

Instead of concentrating on the current state of sports in the US, he has spent his huge budget on something that happened ten or twelve years ago. And concentrated on a sport that represents less than one percent of America's athletic agenda.

I give less of a shit about Lance's drug use in a drug laden era than what he has done for Cancer research and support for cancer patients and their families. That is something that I know about - personally.

Tygart is an ass. But he has convinced me. All athletes are crooks and liars. We need to stop spending tax money on athletics in schools. According to Tygart's findings, that just leads children to drugs.