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Thu Nov 25, 2021, 06:08 AM

What's wrong with our 'messaging'?

It's this:

We don't attack our political opponents by fabricating lies about them, and repeating those lies until they are perceived to be facts.

We tell voters the truth, instead of telling them what they want to hear. We warn them about the consequences of climate change, instead of assuring them that it's just another scam being perpetrated by 'elitist' scientists.

We don't ignore the plight of the hungry, the sick, and the poor while claiming to be righteous Christians who are 'doing the Lord's work'.

We don't encourage voters to believe that putting more guns in their hands makes them safer, or that their use equals protecting their freedoms. We don't tell voters that taking the law into their own hands is tantamount to upholding justice.

We don't demonize 'the other side' by suggesting they are Satan-worshippers who sex-traffic children.

We try to appeal to the intelligence and common sense of people who possess neither.

We rely on facts and scientific knowledge, instead of pandering to those who are too stupid to accept the former and/or understand the latter. We don't cater to the uninformed by feeding them even more misinformation; we don't
tell the ignorant that their ignorance is actually a sign of their superiority.

We don't attempt to persuade voters that all of their grievances are attributable to immigrants, or people of colour, or those of a different faith or sexual orientation.

We don't espouse 'easy fixes' to the nation's woes, like banning certain books or firing certain teachers.

We encourage unity, instead of admonishing citizens to see each other as enemies. We promote the concept of finding common ground, instead of 'standing one's ground' by using violence to settle scores.

I am tired of hearing how the Democrats don't know how to 'message' in the current climate of people who aren't the least bit interested in hearing any message that doesn't justify their racism, their homophobia, their xenophobia, and that doesn't glorify those traits by equating them to patriotism and love of God and country.

In a sane world - which we have long since left behind - the only 'message' that should mean anything is the fact that Donald Trump and the Republican party organized, funded, supported and actively participated in the attempted overthrow of our democracy.

Everything else - including promoting the idea that Democrats don't have the 'right message' - is just the noise that bullshit makes when it hits the fan.

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Arrow 113 replies Author Time Post
Reply What's wrong with our 'messaging'? (Original post)
NanceGreggs Nov 25 OP
Bernardo de La Paz Nov 25 #1
robbedvoter Nov 25 #2
wnylib Nov 25 #3
NanceGreggs Nov 25 #6
wnylib Nov 25 #12
NanceGreggs Nov 25 #15
uponit7771 Nov 25 #87
wnylib Nov 25 #91
uponit7771 Nov 25 #95
uponit7771 Nov 25 #86
calimary Nov 25 #96
Jarqui Nov 25 #9
certainot Nov 25 #25
betsuni Nov 25 #26
calimary Nov 25 #45
uponit7771 Nov 25 #73
calimary Nov 25 #92
uponit7771 Nov 25 #94
certainot Nov 25 #98
certainot Nov 25 #99
certainot Nov 25 #97
overleft Nov 25 #35
uponit7771 Nov 25 #71
calimary Nov 25 #93
MrWiggles Nov 25 #4
NanceGreggs Nov 25 #8
calimary Nov 25 #52
wnylib Nov 25 #16
betsuni Nov 25 #22
certainot Nov 25 #33
Scrivener7 Nov 25 #36
Celerity Nov 25 #47
DLevine Nov 25 #51
calimary Nov 25 #54
betsuni Nov 25 #5
wnylib Nov 25 #21
taxi Nov 26 #109
twodogsbarking Nov 25 #7
Martin Eden Nov 25 #10
uponit7771 Nov 25 #83
TNNurse Nov 25 #11
uponit7771 Nov 25 #59
bucolic_frolic Nov 25 #65
uponit7771 Nov 25 #75
bucolic_frolic Nov 25 #77
elias7 Nov 25 #13
Scrivener7 Nov 25 #14
NanceGreggs Nov 25 #18
Scrivener7 Nov 25 #29
NanceGreggs Nov 25 #39
Scrivener7 Nov 25 #40
uponit7771 Nov 25 #61
uponit7771 Nov 25 #60
Tetrachloride Nov 25 #20
Scrivener7 Nov 25 #27
uponit7771 Nov 25 #76
uponit7771 Nov 25 #48
Auggie Nov 25 #31
uponit7771 Nov 25 #49
uponit7771 Nov 25 #42
madville Nov 25 #72
Scrivener7 Nov 25 #78
uponit7771 Nov 25 #81
madville Nov 25 #82
panader0 Nov 25 #17
Roy Rolling Nov 25 #24
panader0 Nov 25 #28
Scrivener7 Nov 25 #32
uponit7771 Nov 25 #50
panader0 Nov 25 #62
uponit7771 Nov 25 #67
Roy Rolling Nov 26 #113
Scrivener7 Nov 25 #64
uponit7771 Nov 25 #80
JackSabbath Nov 25 #58
Joinfortmill Nov 25 #19
certainot Nov 25 #23
Scrivener7 Nov 25 #34
certainot Nov 25 #37
Scrivener7 Nov 25 #38
certainot Nov 25 #44
uponit7771 Nov 25 #90
uponit7771 Nov 25 #89
The Jungle 1 Nov 25 #30
uponit7771 Nov 25 #41
NanceGreggs Nov 25 #101
uponit7771 Nov 25 #103
NanceGreggs Nov 25 #105
uponit7771 Nov 26 #108
dixiechiken1 Nov 25 #43
uponit7771 Nov 25 #57
bucolic_frolic Nov 25 #46
uponit7771 Nov 25 #53
lastlib Nov 25 #63
myohmy2 Nov 25 #55
NanceGreggs Nov 25 #66
myohmy2 Nov 25 #69
NanceGreggs Nov 25 #74
uponit7771 Nov 25 #79
uponit7771 Nov 25 #70
uponit7771 Nov 25 #68
lastlib Nov 25 #56
emanymton69 Nov 25 #84
rownesheck Nov 25 #85
uponit7771 Nov 25 #88
NanceGreggs Nov 25 #102
uponit7771 Nov 25 #104
NanceGreggs Nov 25 #106
uponit7771 Nov 26 #107
mopinko Nov 25 #100
sarcasmo Nov 26 #110
CrackityJones75 Nov 26 #111
Diablo del sol Nov 26 #112

Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 06:14 AM

1. Yes. . . . nt

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 06:15 AM

2. We own way less megaphones. In fact we own none

The ENTIRE media is an echo chamber for the GOP They represent their POV.We are "the other: to them. And I mean all of it - MNBC included.OWNED by them. What's wrong with our message: no ways deliver it.

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Response to robbedvoter (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 06:32 AM

3. Another thing wrong with our messaging

is that, in telling truths, we don't tell truths about our opponents directly and honestly enough. We don't need to make up lies about them. The truths are bad enough. We could do "comparison campaigning" more and hit hard with it. "Democrats gave you .....while Republicans opposed it. Who represents your interests better?"

Also, lengthy policy statements get tuned out. Condense the message into easily understood, meaningful points that people remember, like, and repeat.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 06:46 AM

6. Yet another 'message' ...

... that falls on the deaf ears of those who yell 'fake news!' when confronted with the truth, while clinging to more palatable 'alternative facts'.

"Still a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest."

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:15 AM

12. It would not be ignored any more

by people who don't want to hear truths than the messaging on the OP.

If we stop speaking truths because we believe that they won't listen, then we become complicit with them through self-censoring.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:20 AM

15. I've never advocated ...

... not speaking the truth - whether people are listening or not.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:28 AM

87. Correct but WHEN we speak the truth matters as much as how loud and often, we're getting our

... butts beat on the mechanics of messaging.

No doubt

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:56 AM

91. That's good to know.

Last edited Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:26 PM - Edit history (1)

We have excellent policies, programs, and agendas. I believe that our messaging tends to focus too much on the intellectual aspects of them. Good messaging appeals to how people feel. That does not mean making cheap emotional appeals with empty slogans. It certainly does not mean appealing to people's baser emotions as RWers do.

Successful messaging addresses how people FEEL about issues that matter to them. The message connects with the people and with what we have done, are doing, or will do about those issues.

Some memorable, successful messaging examples:

"There is nothing to fear but fear itself." Concise, meaningful, and reassuring. People were terrified. Banks had failed. People lost savings, jobs, and homes. The future was grim and uncertain. But panicking made things worse. FDR could have said, "Don't get carried away with your fears. Keep your head and think your way through this." Instead he addressed their fear in memorable phrasing that gave them hope. He said "we" not "you." The unspoken message in his words was, "We're in this together. If we stop being afraid and put our heads together on it, we will come through." But that sentence would not have hit home as well as the one he used.

JFK - a master at messaging. We felt his death so deeply and personally because he connected with people and inspired them. "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country." The message was, "In a democracy, the people ARE the government. Get involved because you are important and have something to offer." He inspired people to care, to act, to feel part of government. He gave them ways to do it, e.g. the Peace Corps, which fit nicely with his larger agenda of international PR for the US to woo 3rd world countries away from communist influence. He messaged and connected constantly through press conferences and humanized himself by letting the public get glimpses of him with his family.

Good messaging is like good poetry. It conveys meaning, purpose, and inspiration by appealing to the senses, mind, and emotions via phrasing, visual imagery, and sincere concerns, goals, and achievements.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #91)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 10:06 AM

95. +1, "..Good messaging appeals to how people feel.."

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Response to wnylib (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:27 AM

86. +1, TM only defined Youngkin in VA gov race after his poll numbers went down we can define...

.. the GQP upfront but don't

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Response to wnylib (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 10:07 AM

96. And you have to add the "shoebox" element.

Pox Noise had vivid graphics and bells and whistles and bright bursts, and blondes. And that damned announcer “FAAAAAAAAAAAAAIR! And BALANCED.” Which was a flat-out lie - right there. Because all they did was slant the news aggressively and REPEATEDLY to the wrong (I hate to use the word “right” to describe that crap. Just reinforces it the wrong way.)

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Response to robbedvoter (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:11 AM

9. +1,000,000 nt

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Response to robbedvoter (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:42 AM

25. 1500 coordinated ignored radio stations is their only unique advantage. see comment below

once dems stop ignoring it media re-regulation is much easier - without them screaming "FREE SPEECH!", "corporations are people", "big govt regulation is communism!", "democrats can buy radio stations too!" and other bullshit like that.......

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Response to certainot (Reply #25)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:44 AM

26. "Why didn't Dems stop ____ ?"

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Response to certainot (Reply #25)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:31 AM

45. It's not just all those radio stations. It's TV and cable. Like Pox Noise.

And the other wannabes like OAN and Newsmax. And, undoubtedly, more beyond that.

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Response to calimary (Reply #45)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:07 AM

73. Then we get our own damn news stations, only 64% of democrats believe voter suppression is a

...problem.

We need a better infrastructre all way around

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #73)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 10:01 AM

92. Yes!!! But unfortunately we had one and it just didn't gain any traction.

Air America. Advertiser support wasn’t there. And it folded fairly quickly. Pox Noise came along and had no such problem. Besides, it was on TV. There was no comparable outlet leaning left. So we have MSNBC now, but it doesn’t get the coverage or clearance Pox does.

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Response to calimary (Reply #92)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 10:05 AM

94. Just read we are actually under utilizing radio stations in CoC like Miami Dade and South Texas ...

... or getting there late with our message.

We should use what we have to turn out our voting in CoC especially Hispanic ones.

I'm gob smacked thinking we're not established in rural areas but not even using radio as much as possible in urban and suburban areas where there are large CoC.

We are NO DOUBT getting our asses kicked on the mechanics of messaging.

We have a booming economy save the inflation (which comes with booming economies) but voters want a republican ?!

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Response to calimary (Reply #92)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 11:15 AM

98. air america was competing with a well established monopoly. it was mom and pop vs walmart

they already had 1500 of the loudest stations! and randi rhodes and other explained how it was sabotaged. along with already having alll the advertisers locked in

funders included an anchutz heir. another funder ended up fleeing to the philipines for fraud. the right/republicans knew how valuable it was without competition and then sold the lies about liberal radio not being able to 'compete'. the really idiotic lie trolls sell and some people still repeat is that it's just an expression of 'market demand' - as if 95% of americans are idiot racist nazis who think global warming is a hoax.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #73)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 11:22 AM

99. the way to beat rw radio is to destroy it. every advertiser, ad co, as well as university and pro

sports team that uses rw radio stations shares reponsibiity and needs to hear it.

the 87+ unis need to be protested and the advertisers need to be boycotted. along with the long overdue use of AI to digitize and analyze it so idiots like james carville and david plough have to stop ignoring it.

the ad industry will have to break up the monopoly

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Response to calimary (Reply #45)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 11:07 AM

97. TV, internet are part of the free speech spectrum. rw radio is the only unique advantage they have

they reflect and need the unchallenged repetition only rw radio can do

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Response to robbedvoter (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:57 AM

35. You have said it right on the money. MSM is owned by the oligarchs.

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Response to robbedvoter (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:06 AM

71. +1,We have a way we're not using it. We have radio in CoC that are not flooded with our message

... look what happened in Miami Dade in 2020!!

Radio was there, dems didn't use it and Putin's Whore gained 200,000 more votes because of it

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Response to robbedvoter (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 10:02 AM

93. Yep.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 06:39 AM

4. The problem is simple.

Biden, and all the other Corporate D's are like Charlie brown.
They are just too Wishy Washy to make the HARD argument,
and tell it like it is. Sure wish BERNIE was in charge of PR.

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Response to MrWiggles (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:08 AM

8. Thank you for your less than insightful ...

... comments, as subtle as you think they were.

While the reference to BERNIE was a nice (albeit obvious) touch, you missed the mark by miles.

Enjoy your stay - as short and unmemorable as it will inevitably prove to be.



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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:38 AM

52. I second that emotion.

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Response to MrWiggles (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:23 AM

16. Biden wishy washy?

The man who stood up to the military industrial complex, the US media, and pro war critics abroad over Afghanistan? What planet are you on?

Biden is the choice of the party and the nation. Divisiveness like your post does not enhance the nation, the party, or our messaging, which is the topic of the OP.

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Response to MrWiggles (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:36 AM

22. The problem is simple? Corporate Dems. HARD.

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Response to MrWiggles (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:55 AM

33. bullshit. when dem and prog 'leaders' figure out the only unique difference is radio the rest is

easy. but they continue to listen to advisers who llive in cities and don't have time to listen to talk radio and can't read it. so they play catch up.

like the rachel maddow research dept that has her do multiple segments on the giuliani powell press conference as a trigger for jan 6 and never figured out it was timed to start with the limbaugh show that day and HE HAD A SCRIPT! - so they could reach a much larger live audience of like-minded. limbaugh was saying the same shit at the same time.

like chris hays, who has sam nunberg on a dozen times and doesn't ask him about his statemennt that he "listened to 1000s of hours of talk radio in 2014" for trump. the same year the russians mueller indicted were visiting swing states - the same states nunberg was listening in on and passing notes to stone/trump?

bernie used radio to become 'bernie' - he should know

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Response to MrWiggles (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:03 AM

36. Bernie in charge of PR would only appeal to voters we already have.

And your characterization of Biden as "wishy washy" is offensive.

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Response to MrWiggles (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:32 AM

47. I think you're posting this as a false flag to stir up shit against progressives & promote division

I do not buy for a split second you are an actual Sanders supporter

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Response to Celerity (Reply #47)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:37 AM

51. Yup. Good call. nt

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Response to DLevine (Reply #51)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:40 AM

54. Indeed.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 06:40 AM

5. THANK YOU.

So tired of it. Everyone knows what Democrats stand for. Government, equality, health care, regulation, taxing the wealthy, fair wages, etc. Everybody knows this.

There are no magic slogans. The supposed magic slogans Medicare for All, Green New Deal, Cancel all Student Debt, Defund the Police didn't work. There are no magic slogans.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:34 AM

21. They were the wrong "slogans."

And who needs slogans? Concise, meaningful messaging does not necessarily mean slogans.

"Defund the police" was doomed from the start for a couple reasons. First, it put people off by implying the elimination of law enforcement and becoming an anarchy. I know that is not what the phrase means, but that's the second thing wrong with it. It requires explaining which puts supporters of reform on the defense. Good messaging is well understood about something desireable.

We could try tagging the opposition with memorable images of who they are and what they stand for at the same time that we are presenting our positions in a positive light.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 11:03 AM

109. In thinking of creating the most powerful message we could send,

Last edited Fri Nov 26, 2021, 12:21 PM - Edit history (1)

changing the party logo came to mind. It would take guts and it would clearly divide the weak from the strong, and show that the party is indeed united in thought.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:05 AM

7. Very well done.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:12 AM

10. Democrats are held to a different set of rules

The horrific dumpster fire of Trumpism has been normalized, while any misstep by Democrats (or difficulties in getting past Republican obstructionism) is trumpeted in the MSM as evidence that we are the party that is in disarray.

The "messaging" is being filtered by media corporations that long ago abandoned responsible journalism for shareholder profits, chasing after clicks with shallow sensationalism. The public is in dire need of being informed about the real threats to their well being and their children's future -- and that's the message our Democratic leadership is constantly trying to get across -- but that's not the story the MSM wants to tell.

It's not easy to govern when nearly half the country is insane and far too many in "the middle" don't want to hear inconvenient truths or make any perceived sacrifices in taking necessary action to prevent environmental, economic, and public health calamities.

Perhaps there are better ways to break through the obstacles cited above, but we will not succeed by turning into the other side with lies and vile propaganda. Democrats are held to a different set of rules, and the sane course of action will never be implemented from inside that asylum.

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:24 AM

83. Trumps gish gallop of Trump Horrible could've been defeated with proper mechanics of ......

... messaging one of them is to hyper focus on one of the egregious horribles and make him back off.

We didn't it was pretty much run from one fire to the other instead of flooding the first fire with the truth.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:13 AM

11. Honesty, decency, fairness and competence

are just not as popular as they should be. They are not loud and do not give people a reason to get worked up and act out. So many in our country now only respond to the loud and outrageous. How else do you explain all the reality crap, game shows and violence on TV, video games and such.

The GOP tapped into the lowest level of feelings in this country and have cultivated and used it.

We are too damn nice and calm to be attractive to those who crave notice and fame.

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Response to TNNurse (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:45 AM

59. They are popular but ***NOT*** calling out what the GQP is doing as evil isn't effective at making

... the noble things important as the SHOULD be.

We *DO NOT* define the GQP as the bad guys because they fight against health care, voting, democracy ***FIRST*** and make them defend the call out. (see TM in VA gov race, he didn't start defining Youngkin till his poll numbers came down)

We need to strike hard, strike first and don't let up ...

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Response to TNNurse (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:51 AM

65. We should engage where we can

How many here patrol Craigslist Community and flag where appropriate? Because the other side is flagging us for sure.

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Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #65)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:09 AM

75. omg, this should be its own OP itself. The GQP are NOT DOUBT working infrastructure that's ...

... established and free and we don't.

From radio, to internet we're not there with an effective message and let the GQP define us first ... we lose that fight no matter if we have the facts on our side.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #75)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:12 AM

77. flaggings free

10 people in 10 minutes a day set at 500 mile diameter search could flag most of the posts in the US. Everything else gets flagged.

BTW, there was - was - an "I did that" sticker at the gas pump yesterday. Persistent adhesive. But was is the operative word.

See? there are things we can do.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:18 AM

13. !!!

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:19 AM

14. Nope. That's not it.

We just passed a historic infrastructure bill. What constituted the "blitz" that trumpeted that achievement to the American people?

Well! We did a lot of press conferences, and we projected a message onto a building in Baltimore!

...

We have a problem with messaging.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:26 AM

18. My point is ...

... that we don't have a problem with messaging. We have a problem with people who insist on promoting the idea that we do.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #18)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:50 AM

29. And mine is that we DO have a problem with messaging. And rather than pretending it isn't an issue,

we need to change that. It's not that difficult a thing to do.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #29)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:14 AM

39. If it's "not that difficult to do" ...

... please enlighten us as to how it's to be done.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:22 AM

40. Stacy Abrams managed to reach huge swaths of voters we had previously never reached, and

she managed to persuade them to vote Democratic. And she did it in an astonishingly short time period. Let's ask her! Better yet, make her the head of the DNC and give her a good budget.

There are many very talented PR firms out there. Let's hire one of those! I am guessing they could put together a better PR blitz for landmark legislation than press conferences and an image projected on a building in Baltimore.

And finally, the right wing message machine does not hide their methods. They have shown us how to do it. They have given us a road map. We don't have to copy their messages, but their mechanics are very much worth copying. We see every day how effective they are. Think tanks that develop psychologically effective messaging, using that psychologically effective messaging in response to each news item, consistent framing of our accomplishments, deep research into how to use social media to target individual voters on the basis of their individual needs.

There are about a thousand things we could be doing that we are not.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #40)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:47 AM

61. THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾 "but their mechanics are very much worth copying." I've been saying this for ...

... years !!

Our messaging infrastructure is horrible and there are a ton of polls and data and results to show it !!!

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #18)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:46 AM

60. Only 64% of democrats believe Voter Suppression is a problem (link) That's a problem with messaging

... and we can blame everything else and their mother but us dems but that's not going to solve a problem like that.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:30 AM

20. some Dems get out in front way more than others

The ones that don’t…. this is a fundamental issue, even more fundamental than corporate media.

I submit we need way more people like Stacy Abrams, Jen Psaki , Adam Schiff ….

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Response to Tetrachloride (Reply #20)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:48 AM

27. If we made Stacy Abrams the head of the DNC, we would see in retrospect how many

opportunities we are missing right now to reach voters we currently don't.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #27)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:12 AM

76. +1, SA went to CoC where dem messaging was missing in 2020. Miami Dade was disgusting example

... of exactly the opposite of what SA did in ATL burbs and Community collages.

We ignored Miami Dade Radio and ground game and Putin's Whore picked up 200,000 more votes compared to 2016 with a bold faced lie.

We can do better telling the truth

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Response to Tetrachloride (Reply #20)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:33 AM

48. +1, TM in VA gov race didn't define Trumpkin as a Trumper till late in the race when his polls ...

... started sinking.

That was poor messaging

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:53 AM

31. It's a problem of distribution. We target the wrong demographic too ...

and use the wrong words.

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Response to Auggie (Reply #31)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:34 AM

49. +1, the 2020 post mortem said we didn't target PoC communities SPECIFICLY enough we peanut

... buttered down ballot messages and most voter down ballot didn't know the dem agenda

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:26 AM

42. THANK YOU !!! Only 64% of democrats think voter suppression is a problem, that's messaging

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:06 AM

72. And the infrastructure bill has already fallen out of the news cycle

We have to acknowledge that the Infrastructure bill is boring, voters won’t see an immediate widespread benefit and in a year or two pointing at a repaved road or new bridge and saying it’s because of that bill just isn’t very exciting.

The messaging for the midterms is already set, it will primarily be:
- Inflation
- Supply Chain
- Crime Wave
- Vaccine Mandates
- Parent’s vs. School Boards
- More Race division

Drama sells, and the corporate media and GOP are good at capitalizing on that and ignoring any positive progress.




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Response to madville (Reply #72)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:13 AM

78. It never got into the news cycle. But if we targeted social media and

email and yes, radio, in those areas where there are already projects earmarked in the bill, and we said directly to the local people, "You know how you can't get to medical care because there are no good roads between you and the nearest hospital? Joe just fixed that. Look for massive improvements to Route 12 in 2022. Joe is working for you, (name)"

"You know how you can't get to good jobs because you have no transportation? Joe just fixed that. Look for a new rail branch in your town in 2022. This opens up the whole city next door to you. Joe is working for you, (name.)"

That would get voters.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #78)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:18 AM

81. +1, " and yes, radio" GQP used it in Miami Dade and gained 200,000 more votes with it

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #78)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:23 AM

82. Those are long term benefits though many years from now

Between planning, permitting, environmental approval, bidding out jobs and actually starting and finishing projects like that, it may be well past 2024 before any benefits can be realized. By then the GOP could be back in control claiming credit for the “Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill”.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:24 AM

17. Thanks. The "message" thing reminds me

of the post about the "brand" thing the other day. Supposedly the Democratic brand is broken.....
Just some more bullshit terms the pundits like to toss around.

https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16081436

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Response to panader0 (Reply #17)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:36 AM

24. Not a "bullshit term" at all

It hints at what the problem is—“branding”—which is an entirely business/corporate term.

The whole society is enamored by glitz and business success, political parties are now giant propaganda-selling corporations, not governmental political parties. (Democrats excepted)

Selling government like soap and fast food is a recipe for obesity and unchecked information.

Know the field, Democrats, play their own game better to defeat them. Otherwise, how can idiots everywhere amass millions of followers on social media? One “brand”, one talking-point.

In an environment where the population consists of mostly morons, selling government is the game. Unfortunately, they sell well but the GOP government “product” is detrimental to everyone but the 1% selling it

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Response to Roy Rolling (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:50 AM

28. I disagree. I am not enamored by "glitz". You may be.

"play their own game better to defeat them"??? No thanks. Their game is lying and denying facts
and promoting evil crap. I won't play that game. The "population of mostly morons" you mention
elected Joe Biden by over 7 million votes. Government shouldn't be something that should be "sold".

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Response to panader0 (Reply #28)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:53 AM

32. You already vote, and vote Democratic. You are not one of the people we are not reaching.

No one says effective messaging would consist of promoting evil crap.

It would consist of efforts to reach the people we are not reaching.

And yes, Joe won by over 7 million votes. But in the electoral system we are forced to work within, Democrats HAVE to win those huge margins to squeak into office. The deck is stacked against us.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #28)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:35 AM

50. "I am not" we're not talking about engaged voters like you, we're talking about the 40% of black

... voters who didn't vote at all

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #50)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:48 AM

62. The poster I was responding to said "The whole society is enamored by glitz".

I just don't think our party should be "packaged" like a prize in a box of Cracker Jacks.
Our core values of equality, civil rights, environment and voting rights should be glitz enough.
Not trying to argue, I'm just tired of the endless dissection of what are perceived as the faults
of our party. I think the Democrats just need to keep telling the truth.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #62)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:55 AM

67. You're right, we don't have to "play their game" but we NO DOUBT need to copy their mechanics

... because they're whooping our asses with it.

Only 64% of democrats think voter suppression is a problem

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/06/21/monmouth-poll-americans-back-both-early-voting-voter-id-requirements/7774904002/

That's FREAKIN HORRIBLE !!!

We can't blame that on "us telling the truth" we can tell an EFFECTIVE truth,

Stacy Abrams got the message out with 1/100 of DNC resources and did it fast, copy what she did and do it quickly is just one aspect of what we can do

We're not

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Response to panader0 (Reply #62)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 02:08 PM

113. Leave me out of this now

If you do not think society is governed by business and economic principles, then explain why Political parties use television and slick advertising to attract voters, just like a retail business?

Please read my post, you clearly misunderstand. Democrats have always been better at PR and media things. They need to define their brand more succinctly, even if that brand is “something for everyone”.

I live in a Republican-dominated area and never see any Democratic Party outreach here to my neighbors. In fact, I’m probably one of the most vocal people in miles and I’ve yet to get a single call or visit from any Democratic Party neighbors/supporters/candidates. They just write us off.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #50)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:49 AM

64. We're also talking about the Latin American vote, which is beginning to slip away from us and which

should be a gimme for us.

We're also talking about a certain percentage of white women who vote the way their husbands vote because they are "not political" but who might be able to be educated about how the republiQans actually hate them and are actively working against them.

And though I imagine they would be the hardest to turn and should be the last we approach or throw money at, we are also talking about underemployed white men. There must be at least a fringe percentage of them who can be made to see that they are chumps for the rich.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #64)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:17 AM

80. +1, 2020 South Texas and Miami Dade was a travesty !! Dems act like Stacy Abrams doesn't exist

... for some reason.

She had 1/100th of dems resources and was 1000 time more effective in messaging in ATL, their infrastructure at minimum should be repeated in EVERY CoC

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Response to panader0 (Reply #17)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:42 AM

58. Messaging

Openly calling repubs FASCISTS as often and as loudly as they call us COMMUNIST. And then connecting the dots.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:27 AM

19. Amen

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:36 AM

23. it's the VOLUME! the bloody radio is the only unique advantage they have. at $1000/hr worth $5B/yr

if trump/putin/GOP would spend $1000 for a 1hr radio infomercial 1200 unchallenged stations x 15 hrs/day are worth $90M/WEEK FREE! or $5BIL/year! paid for and endorsed by advertisers, ad companies, university and pro sports teams........

ignoring it has been the biggest political mistake in history. all they do all day is lie and attack democrats and liberals and our ideas and intent -FOR FREE

it's not about style or content or framing or whatever

think tank hacks in the US and since at least 2008 (palin) russia, sit around waiting for messaging that might harm their authoritarian bosses' interests, design a PR response, and blast it out of 1500 radio stations for FREE! the russians have taken it and the GOP over to some degree and democrats are still talking about their messaging deficiencies!

manafort, bannon and stone need to be asked about russian use of radio

that is why democrats can't message. that fucking carville is an idiot. they keep asking that dumbass advice. it's not the economy or messaging strategy - it's the radio and it's the volume.

when limbaugh died it lost it's main salesman and it's splintered and would be easy to destroy - but no, dem leadership still live in cities and think facebook and fox are kicking their ass..... - those are free speech expressions that piggyback 30 years of hating liberals and rationalizing sex on the wrong brain fascism, racism, sexism - which was limbaugh's genius

the solution is easy - use AI to digitize and monitor it so it's not invisible and even assholes like carville can read the analysis

and stop letting 87 universities support it

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Response to certainot (Reply #23)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:56 AM

34. I would say it's radio and social media, and social media is a more effective vehicle for us.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #34)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:08 AM

37. most of the 'successful' social media piggybacks 30 yrs of rw radio - like fox. soc media is

part of the free speech spectrum - rw radio is a 95% fascist driven monopoly that democrats completely ignore and it dominates 40+ states with 80 senators.

facebook is a symptom, a diversion, like fox. facebook would do well to use its AI to monitor RW radio and correlate to rw radio if it wants an easy way to find foreign trolls - piggybacking 30 years of unchallenged democracy-hating rw radio repetition is what i'd do if i was running a russian troll farm. as opposed to making shit up and hoping it will stick......

bannon, stone, and manafort need to be asked about the radio and dem and prog leaders continue to mmake the biggest political mistake in history by ignoring it.

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Response to certainot (Reply #37)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:12 AM

38. I agree that radio is the driver of the right wing. But unless we are going to put a LOT of

money behind it (and I'm not saying we SHOULDN'T, I just don't know if we WILL) it won't work for us.

Air America was a quality product, but was insufficiently backed. So if we are willing to do the investment, great. But if not, social media is cheap.

And don't forget, Q was entirely a social media product. I don't think we should do anything like the mind game Q played, but it is an illustration of how social media can draw people in.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #38)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:29 AM

44. Q soc media campaign started in nov 2017, 10 mo after limbaugh began attacking 'librul deep state'

right around the women's march in Jan 2017 he started a narrative about obama, clinton, soros funding and organizing it and a anti-trump coup. that narrative evolved and incorporated the stzrok etc people who russia wanted to get rid of. they were using limbaugh. the Q story piggybacked it to add a younger audience and abuse victims (pedophelia, canibalism), who probably made up a big part of the jan 6 attack. those older were more dittoheads than internet. the guy with molotovs had phone numbers of hannity, levin, and sekulow radio shows.

air am was sabotaged. one of the 'backers' was an anchutz heir. another ended up fleeing to the philippines on fraud charges or something. it's a 95% protected monopoly and the cons love it for dems to talk about competing with the only real advantage they have

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #38)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:37 AM

90. We don't need to, we can just flood CoC radio stations to be effective, we didn't in 2020 and look

... what happened in Miami Dade, 70% of that was just radio !!

DNC never responded, I was gob smacked after reading the Miami Dade post mortem

Same with South Texas, we don't flood those stations and lose big time with Hispanic voters

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Response to certainot (Reply #23)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:33 AM

89. They have bots on SM that are worked near 100% daily, we can do the same. We lack in Radio ...

... to CoC bad too, look at what happened in Miami Dade via radio ... we should NEVER EVER let that repeat again.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:51 AM

30. Nance, Your message is the message we must get America to understand.

We can use religion. They are not living by Christ's teachings! They are chanting in churches all across this nation "Lets go Brandon" Why isn't that front page news. Why aren't we using their filthy chant against them at every sound bite?????
We can call them names and demonize them. There are a lot of easy targets and they do not hold back.
When there is a mass shooting we must blame the right and give no quarter. It must be part of every sound bite.
The repuke party has never done a single thing for middle class America. They actually hurt the poor. Make them own it.
The only thing repukes got done under trump was a massive tax cut for the rich. Every sound bite.

We are able to sell pet rocks in this country. We can sell our better party.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:24 AM

41. ****DEMOCRATS DO NOT KNOW HOW TO MESSAGE !!!***** Only 64% of democrats think voter

... suppression laws are a problem

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/06/21/monmouth-poll-americans-back-both-early-voting-voter-id-requirements/7774904002/

That's text book poor messaging infrastructure on democrats part !!!

That's text book poor framing and not flooding an information zone with information Americans need to hear about that issue.

That is democrats fault, not the media not some aliens or slogans or whatever else we want to blame today

We don't attack our political opponents by fabricating lies about them, and repeating those lies until they are perceived to be facts.


- We don't need to!!! We don't attack them by establishing the bad they do either! Look at TM in VA, he didn't try to associate the generic GQP candidate with Putin's Whore ... FIRST !! He only did it after he started sinking in the pools, we need to

We tell voters the truth, instead of telling them what they want to hear. We warn them about the consequences of climate change, instead of assuring them that it's just another scam being perpetrated by 'elitist' scientists.


- That's great but the "truth" isn't what stokes voters fear is and "Republicans want to take away your health care" is not only the truth but its fear invoking. We CAN do that and should .... we don't !!!

We don't ignore the plight of the hungry, the sick, and the poor while claiming to be righteous Christians who are 'doing the Lord's work'.


- Great, has nothing to do with dems lack of good messaging infrastructure

We don't encourage voters to believe that putting more guns in their hands makes them safer, or that their use equals protecting their freedoms. We don't tell voters that taking the law into their own hands is tantamount to upholding justice.


- Great, has nothing to do with dems lack of good messaging infrastructure and attacking with truth first

We don't demonize 'the other side' by suggesting they are Satan-worshippers who sex-traffic children.


- We ***SHOULD*** demonize the other side with the bullshit they do !! We don't do it effectively **FIRST**, its not a constant hammer we use. See TM 2021 VA Gov run ... r

We try to appeal to the intelligence and common sense of people who possess neither.


- Great, has nothing to do with dems lack of good messaging infrastructure and not attacking with truth first

We rely on facts and scientific knowledge, instead of pandering to those who are too stupid to accept the former and/or understand the latter. We don't cater to the uninformed by feeding them even more misinformation; we don't tell the ignorant that their ignorance is actually a sign of their superiority.


- Great, has nothing to do with dems lack of good messaging infrastructure and not attacking with truth first

We don't attempt to persuade voters that all of their grievances are attributable to immigrants, or people of colour, or those of a different faith or sexual orientation.


- We DO NOT ***LOUDLY*** tell voters this is wrong and establish the GQP does it first !! We don't!! We allow them to attack us and define use first (see post mortems of 2020 down ballot races were a majority of voters said dem messages were vague in a multitude of studies)

We don't espouse 'easy fixes' to the nation's woes, like banning certain books or firing certain teachers.


- Great, We're the "good guys" that has nothing to do with dems lack of good messaging infrastructure and not attacking with truth first.

We encourage unity, instead of admonishing citizens to see each other as enemies. We promote the concept of finding common ground, instead of 'standing one's ground' by using violence to settle scores.

I am tired of hearing how the Democrats don't know how to 'message' in the current climate of people who aren't the least bit interested in hearing any message that doesn't justify their racism, their homophobia, their xenophobia, and that doesn't glorify those traits by equating them to patriotism and love of God and country.


I'm tired of looking at the fact that even when we're doing great a majority of America doesn't think we are because of a lack of messaging and actions that get the message out.

The economy is text book roaring other than inflation, we're losing the economic message and we shouldn't blame "we're the good guys" on that.

In a sane world - which we have long since left behind - the only 'message' that should mean anything is the fact that Donald Trump and the Republican party organized, funded, supported and actively participated in the attempted overthrow of our democracy.


In a sane world would ANYONE be asking if there was a DOJ investigation after 911?

Right ... the answer is no, the reason why we were asking a month ago because we didn't know.

Everything else - including promoting the idea that Democrats don't have the 'right message' - is just the noise that bullshit makes when it hits the fan.


Then why do only 64% of ****DEMOCRATS**** think voter suppression is a problem ?!!?

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #41)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:45 PM

101. From the article you've cited:

"At 64%, Democrats were more likely than Republicans, at 43%, or independents, at 42%, to express concern about voter disenfranchisement."

That does NOT mean that only 64% of Democrats think voter suppression is a problem.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #101)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:01 PM

103. K, ONLY 64% of democrats are more likely to expres concern about voter disenfranchisement,.. better?

No ... We both know the number should be 100

That sucks big time no matter how it's worded.... that's our messaging

We need to change that and it's not hard just takes attention

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #103)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:54 PM

105. Again, that's NOT what it says.

"At 64%, Democrats were more likely than Republicans, at 43%, or independents, at 42%, to express concern about voter disenfranchisement ."

What it says is that Democrats are more likely to express concern about voter suppression than Republicans and Independents by a margin of 64% over 43% and 42% respectively for the other groups.

They are not talking about 64% of Democrats - they're talking about the percentage by which Democrats express their concern, as compared to Republicans and Independents expressing their concern on the same issue.

Being "more likely to express concern" is NOT the same as one-third of Democrats thinking that "voter suppression is okay", as you keep saying.

Again, that 64% number does NOT mean 64% of Democrats - it is a measure of how likely Democrats are to express concern about vote suppression as compared to Repubs and Indies.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #105)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 06:13 AM

108. Which is still extremely low seeing GQP isn't likely to express concern over suppression at all !!!

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:29 AM

43. I am a Proud Democrat (capital P, capital D)...

For all the reasons you state. But we had better learn how to toot our own horns better and louder, or we will lose our ability to effect change for a very, very long time. The GOP is seeing to that thru gerrymandering, voter suppression and plain ol' hatred. Whether we like it or not, messaging is marketing and marketing is messaging. And thanks to FB, Twitter et al., the attention span of our society is good for only 280 characters.

On a related note, I thought this was a good thread:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216085349

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Response to dixiechiken1 (Reply #43)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:41 AM

57. +1, Only 64% of democrats believe Voter Suppression is a problem (link). That's bad messaging

... and has nothing to do with us doing the right thing.

We can "go high" and have a message that knocks the fascist lies out of the mouths at the same time.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:32 AM

46. We need parallel messaging to appeal low and high, and our own media outlet to make noise

And we should stop lying : "We don't demonize 'the other side' by suggesting they are Satan-worshippers who sex-traffic children."

Because we need to tell the world about projection. The other side really does those things.

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Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #46)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:40 AM

53. THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾 We need an messaging infrastructure that works minimum at the same amplitude ...

... as the GQP and we don't have one right now.

its mostly get on 24hr news programs and do make noise, I'm JUST NOW seeing commercials about Obama care vs beginning 2009 there were NONE !!

Because we need to tell the world about projection. The other side really does those things.


THIS TOO !! We don't need to demonize the other side with lies we can just do it with the truth but we need to make them the opposition of what America stands for and that's 100% the truth right now.

Only 64% of democrats think voting suppression is a problem, that's our messaging being wrong

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #53)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:49 AM

63. Yeah, we shouldn't demonize them ....

we should just TELL THE TRUTH that repuglikans really ARE Satan-worshiping child sex-traffickers.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:40 AM

55. I disagree...

...with the dangers trump and his traitorous pukes pose today for our country our elections shouldn't be close...

...we should be owning 75-80% of all elections...

...half the country still thinks we're wrong...not good

...we can do better...

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Response to myohmy2 (Reply #55)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:51 AM

66. There is no debate ...

... that everyone can do better, no matter what they hope to achieve.

The problem is that those who lie better are those who win elections - and should Democrats resort to lying in order to get ahead?



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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #66)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:00 AM

69. "...should Democrats resort to lying..."

...only as a last resort...

...to save our country, of course

...remember, when in Rome.......

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Response to myohmy2 (Reply #69)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:09 AM

74. Yeah, good thinking.

Let's become what we most despise - that'll learn 'em.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #74)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:13 AM

79. We don't have to do that, we can "go high" AND be effective Stacy Abrams was and look what happened

... we should just copy what she did on the ground and talking to CoC.

We're not ... we're blaming everything else

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #66)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:04 AM

70. We can go high and tell the truth too, only 64% of democrats think voter suppression is a problem

... that's not GQP lying that's us not screaming the truth.

We don't need their messages cause they're full of lies

We need the mechanics and infrastructure cause they're whooping our asses with it.

Again, only 64% of democrats believe voter suppression is a problem ... that's dem messaging not being effective.

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Response to myohmy2 (Reply #55)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:00 AM

68. Yes, look at what Stacy Abrams did in CoC ! The 2020 down ballot post mortems said our message

... in CoC was vague but most likely not where SA did ground work.

We need to copy the mechanics of GQP messaging because they're whooping our asses with it

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:41 AM

56. You answered your own question, Nance.

We try to appeal to the intelligence and common sense of people who possess neither.
...
We rely on facts and scientific knowledge, instead of pandering to those who are too stupid to accept the former and/or understand the latter. We don't cater to the uninformed by feeding them even more misinformation; we don't
tell the ignorant that their ignorance is actually a sign of their superiority.


We lose a better half of the populace doing these. Maybe I'm just being my snarky self, but remember--half the population is below average intelligence.

Happy Thanksgiving!

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:25 AM

84. Democrats Deliver!

*

Democrats deliver by BEING democrats!

Liberals and Democrats passed and President Biden signed into law, a major infrastructure bill in 10 months. In spite of the media's narrative. ‘We The People’ are proud of President Biden, Vice President Harris, and Democratic Party for this accomplishment. This law is good for USA and the future.

Democrats believe in USA. Democrats believe in the people of USA. Democrats believe in USA government. Democratic Party offer a positive agenda and a bright future for USA. Trust the people to see this.

Bravely stand on Democratic principles, ideas, and accomplishment. You will be rewarded by the peoples' votes.

DO NOT expect a ‘pat on the back’ or a positive acknowledgment of accomplishment from reactionary corporate (NY and Washington D.C.) media. It is their business model to sell ‘gloom and doom’ to enhance their profit margins. Truth Be Damned, Corporate Media have a ‘failure’ narrative to sell and sell it they will.

Republican'T Party is in utter disarray; offering hostility, bitterness, and divisiveness. Their only support base is corporate media.

What have Republican'Ts done for USA? Besides being indicted and going to prison ... and great slap-stick comic relief (like attacking Big Bird! Really?!).




*

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:27 AM

85. Nothing wrong with messaging.

It's just that it's extremely difficult to talk to stupid people. Unfortunately, this country is filled to the rim with stupid people.

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Response to rownesheck (Reply #85)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:30 AM

88. Only 64% of democrats believe Voter Suppression is a problem (link), there's something wrong with

... messaging when 1/3rd of democrats think voter suppression is OK.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #88)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:53 PM

102. Why are you persisting ...

... in spreading misinformation?

"At 64%, Democrats were more likely than Republicans, at 43%, or independents, at 42%, to express concern about voter disenfranchisement, reflecting a concern within the party about voter suppression ... ".

That sentence doesn't even come to close to stating that a third of Democrats think voter suppression is okay.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #102)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 08:10 PM

104. Okay, I changed a few words and took out some others and the fact still remains

... the same

our messaging sucks big time

Only 64%, Democrats were more likely than Republicans, at 43%, or independents, at 42%, to express concern about voter disenfranchisement, reflecting a concern within the party about voter suppression ..

That sucks big time, we need to change that

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #104)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:15 PM

106. Yet again ...

... that 64% DOES NOT MEAN 64% of Democrats. It is the margin by which Democrats "message" concern about voter suppression as compared to how often Repubs and Indies "message" their concern.

If there is a poll that shows that "only 64% of Democrats" are concerned about voter suppression, please provide a link.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #106)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 05:50 AM

107. Yeah, the numbers not 99% and it should be with the right message from DNC

... I don't see changing this wording overall changes the RELATIVE low concern being EXPRESSED (vs are) by democrats about voter suppression compared to Republicans (which is damn near zero) seeing how effective voter suppression has been by GQP own admissions.

...and that's taken your definition of what Pew is saying in that paragraph.

My overarching point that Dems hair is not on fire ENOUGH when it comes to voter suppression is expressed ALSO in the data points below

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/04/01/share-of-republicans-saying-everything-possible-should-be-done-to-make-voting-easy-declines-sharply/

Republicans and Democrats take dramatically different positions on this issue. An 85% majority of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents say everything possible should be done to make voting easy.


Like WTF ?!!!?!

the number should be in the upper 90s !!!

Oh and this too !!!

White Democrats overwhelmingly take the view that elections would not be less secure if rules were changed to make it easier to vote (89%). But just a third of White Republicans say the same (34%).

Large shares of Black (76%) and Hispanic (69%) Democrats also share this view – though they are slightly less likely than White Democrats to say this (89%).


No.... this is messaging when ONLY 76% of black voters
"...view that elections would not be less secure if rules were changed to make it easier to vote..."

Come on, the data is screaming at us that our concern isn't were it should be regarding voter disenfranchisement.

That's messaging INSIDE the party ... we need to fix that

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 01:22 PM

100. we dont play on fear like they do.

that's how youngkin won- scaring the soccer moms.
obama and biden managed to make them hope enough to turn out. but nothing brings then out like fear.
and we dont use it. we need to start.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 11:24 AM

110. Our message is splintered. The GOP uses like minded hate as the message.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 11:31 AM

111. The only thing I can say is that

The only thing I can say is that people want to hear how mad we are because people ARE mad. About lots of things. We can be pissed off and be truthful. The message of soft spoken hope won’t work for a lot of people right now. People are pissed at a lot of things and with that they will take any reason to blame something. The republican party tells people to blame “the other”. We can and should be telling people to be pissed at those trying to divide us. Make references to all the references to unity in all of our national creeds like the pledge of allegiance and the nat anthem. The stuff that they eat up and plaster corporatized versions of it everywhere. If they love that stuff while the republicans use it to divide (kneeling, classrooms, etc) we should be using that to remind them of what that stuff really means and explain how it is keeping ALL Americans down. And then point out that it is the republicans that continually try to divide us yo benefit the wealthy. There is a message that it is patriotic to look out for all groups of Americans not just the red areas or the blue areas or the inner city communities or the rural communities. That the problems facing these communities ARE shared. And the root of those problems are the result of the people that benefit from those divisions.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 12:30 PM

112. Great Post.

One additional tactic I have noticed on DU is the knee jerk response “we have to work harder” followed making it all on the Democrats to fix. Everyone else gets a free pass. Then it becomes an internal pissing contest where Progressives get called out.

The crazy thing, those ripping on the progressives claim to be smart and in the know.

It is simple, does AOC lie, no. She might have some ideas that are far left of most, but people here feel free to dump on her and the squad, IMO because those people are too weak to actually defend her and find it easier to align with pukes. Then those same people point at youth/progressive turnout and blame them.

Are those people fucking serious? Hey let’s shit on a group, tell them to shut the fuck up and get in line, then bitch about them not voting, laughable and lazy. To them, we need to work harder means, progressives need to work harder at getting on board. Realistically the centrists need to work harder, and it really isn’t that hard.

Defending AOC and crew from your centrist and puke friends. “She is a very passionate and progressive person. Her proposals have been tried is many other Countries so she is far from radical. She doesn’t lie, she doesn’t demonize opponents, she does fight back. Conversely those strongly attacking her are promoting radical ideas, also promoting policies that have been tried elsewhere, but with catastrophic results, they also attack her personally and lie. So although some of her policies are more progressive, I fully support her right and point of view. She is educated and fully believes in Democracy. As for her biggest detractors, they seem to be the opposite.”

See, not even that hard of work. And the bonus, progressives aren’t being told to shut the fuck up and vote.

MTG, Boebert, Gosar, Jordan, McCarthy, Gohmert, add dozens more puke names. They aren’t being told to shut the fuck up by other Repukes. Why would Dems feel the need?

And before someone goes down some moral superiority B.S. route, stop. Just work a bit harder.

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