Bail for violent offenders and inevitable community harm

[Devil Child]

Overdose death highlights deferred prosecutions in Milwaukee County
Chisholm sticks by plan as family says release led to 26-year-old's death

Milwaukee County District Attorney John Chisholm has long been a proponent of diverting nonviolent offenders from the traditional criminal justice system to programs aimed at giving them a second chance.

These programs have a proven track record, Milwaukee County officials say, at helping drug addicts curb their substance abuse while relieving the overburdened court system.

From the start, however, Chisholm realized these programs could have serious consequences.

"Is there going to be an individual I divert, or I put into treatment program, who's going to go out and kill somebody?" Chisholm said in a 2007 interview with the Journal Sentinel. "You bet. Guaranteed. It's guaranteed to happen. It does not invalidate the overall approach."

https://archive.jsonline.com/watchdog/noquarter/overdose-death-highlights-deferred-prosecutions-in-milwaukee-county-b99101314z1-224745852.html/?page=1

John Chisholm, has been a long time supporter of bonding out accused before trial. Non-violent and violent. This article from 2007 shows some consequences of this policy and recent events with the Waukesha massacre show a catastrophic consequence of allowing a violent felon release before trial. In 2007 he acknowledged this policy will result in death but still remains true to his belief in this approach.

Quick check of DU's pulse, do the deaths of victims at the hands of bonded out violent felons invalidate the concept of bond-availability for felons with violent histories or those accused of violent crimes?

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[Polybius]

1. Lock them up and throw away the key

They don't contribute anything to society but trouble.

[Devil Child]

2. I struggle in finding the balance

I firmly believe in right to bond and release before trial, but certain individuals being released is insane to me.

[Polybius]

3. I mean, it does depend on the case

If a guy is 42 and gets in trouble for the first time (let's say he breaks a guy's nose in a bar fight), yeah release him on bail. I'm talking about uber violent repeat offenders.

[Devil Child]

4. Agreed on your sentiment for the violent repeat offenders

Should place in the never release category. So much harm could've been prevented with him being held until his trial for the initial charges he was facing.

[CrispyQ]

9. I would scrutinize anyone with domestic abuse charges, too.

Personally, I would use domestic abuse as a red flag for a whole bunch of things. If you can't be nice to the people you live with...

[Devil Child]

11. Exactly, DV is a huge red-flag

Especially high-risk DV perp behavior eg. strangulation or stalking.

[cinematicdiversions]

29. I can't understand the tolerance for violence against woman

In the name if racial justice

People who commit such crimes need incarceration regardless of racial status

[Silent3]

27. Who do you mean "them"?

Let me get out of the way first that I think suspected violent offenders should often, perhaps even typically, be denied bail, but the key word is suspected.

You might be jailing an innocent person for a long time pending trial, and that shouldn't be taken lightly. A balance has to be struck between the rights of the accused and public safety. That balance should depend on the particulars of the case, and the criminal record (if any) of the defendant, rather than automatically treating the defendant as if they're just as good as guilty in all cases.

[MichMan]

5. How many arrests and convictions for violent crimes does one need to have before determining ?

A couple, a dozen , more ?

There was no way a Darrell Brooks Jr should have been released with such minimal bail just to go right back out and terrorize the community.

[Devil Child]

6. Agreed MichMan

Once released his continued violence was inevitable.

[MichMan]

7. One could argue that a three strikes rule was appropriate in his case

[Devil Child]

25. Agreed

[BlackSkimmer]

8. I'm not sure if I'm reading your questions correctly, so I'll just answer that violent felons should

stay locked up.

[Devil Child]

10. I was trying to capture in question form the heart of Chisholm's bolded words

Me attempting to paraphrase his statement from the OP here: The inevitable deaths caused by individuals released on bond does not invalidate the correctness of allowing bond for these individuals.

Total agreement with keeping violent felons incarcerated until trial for the safety of the community.

[BlackSkimmer]

23. Yes.

[PTWB]

13. Convicted violent felons, sure.

But merely accused? The right to pre-trial bond is fundamental and we weaken it at our own peril.

[MichMan]

14. Of course bond only applies to those who are accused

When would a convicted felon receive bond?

[PTWB]

15. Appeal bonds, for example.

The point is that denying people bonds who have not been convicted, but merely accused, is a very dangerous precedent to set. Why even have trials if we can just accuse people of violent crimes and lock them up indefinitely?

[MichMan]

16. Is everyone regardless of the charge entitled to a reasonable bond ?

Regardless of criminal history, nature of the charge, or if believed to be a flight risk?

Should someone arrested for attempted murder be bonded out to finish the job?

[PTWB]

17. Generally speaking, yes. Everyone charged is entitled to bond.

Only under the most severe and extreme circumstances should bond be denied. Those are circumstances where there is compelling evidence that pre-trial release would create extreme danger to member(s) of the public or flight.

[MichMan]

18. Darrell Brooks Jr. for $1000 ?

[Devil Child]

19. Offered despite him breaking an earlier bond n/t

[rollin74]

22. exactly. He never showed up for his court appearances

on his sex crime charges in Nevada after he bonded out and there has been a warrant for his arrest ever since

he many chances do we give offenders like him?

our system is broken

[PTWB]

20. Is it your position that is a reasonable bond?

[BlackSkimmer]

24. Now he's looking at 5 mill.

Bet mommy or grand mommy won’t be able to get him out on that.

And he just ran over his wife/gf/whatever.

Human scum. No, inhuman scum.

[Devil Child]

26. Let's hope not

Or any crazy deep-pocketed individual for whatever reason. Surprised it wasn't denied outright.

He is a monster for sure. Watched the initial hearing today, he had warrants in GA and NV and still was able to bail out for $1000.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

12. My experince

With a result of excusing
violent criminal on bail and manipulating the justice system and mental health courts

I would rather see bail for only non- violent offenders.
Or misdemeanors.

Because
I knew a guy who got a wrist slap for robbing a bank. He got mental health court. So he was put at a day program I was attending.

I listened to him talk. I pretended to be like him.
I listened to him brag and he gave me useful details of his crime. Like where he threw his weapon when he lied to the cops he didnt have a gun.

He had a swastika tattoo on his forehead and other tattoos with racist and jail type stuff.

Almost as soon as he arrived he tried to get other people at program to hate gays,go along with him with his racist criminal bullshit.

I warned the staff of what he was up to. They ignored me.

One day he brought his buddies in who were not clients into program and they started bothering me and the gblt people in the program,and since staff was in denial..

I had to do something when he began to bully gays and black people

I couldn't just stand there and let it happen. So I walked up to the table he and his buddies were sitting at and I told them you try to hurt any one here I'll be sure to make your time here intolerable,asshole.

Same for these buddies of yours who arent part of this program. I said it really loud so staff would get off thier asses and
would do something like come out of thier damn offices..
Later the criminals buddies were told to leave and the program Staff had to call the police to get his asshole friends to leave.

Meanwhile a girl I was freinds with who was 18 years old started drawing racist shit for this asshole,telling me she was doing it for his gang newsletter.
She never drew shit like that before asshole got into the program. And she was a good artist.

Then one day when I wasen't there this criminal racist asshole and his buddies abducted the girl drawing racist shit for them. Took her right before program ended apparently,when it was most likely wouldn't be caught. They manipulated the hell out of her.

After a few days she escaped and ended up on a psych unit
for around 3 weeks.
Who knows what happened to her .

I warned the staff the criminal was manipulating people and it made program unsafe.

But did they listen? After it was too late and after harm was done they did.

Mental health court like bail should only be for non violent offenders.

Period.

[rollin74]

21. no bail for violent offenders

pre-trial release should depend solely on the charge(s) and the defendant’s criminal record

in my opinion

I don’t think people charged with serious violent offenses should be eligible for release

[Devil Child]

28. This highly violent offender one was just given option of $5 million bail

Considering the 7 dead, now 2 children I wish the bail was set to zero and not offered at all. Insane.