Soldiers Who Refuse Vaccination Can Still Serve, But Their Careers Are Over

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

Army officials are telling soldiers who refuse to get vaccinated against COVID-19 that they aren't getting booted immediately, but they can't stay in the service for a career.

In a memo to the force last week, Army Secretary Christine Wormuth said active-duty soldiers, reservists and Guardsmen who refuse the vaccine will be "flagged," meaning they will be barred from reenlistment, promotions and potentially most schools.

But soldiers won't be outright removed automatically. Hypothetically, a soldier with years left on their contract can still serve, but will see no progress in their career and will not be allowed to serve beyond that contract. They could leave with an honorable discharge.

The deadline to be vaccinated is Dec. 15 for active-duty soldiers and June 30 for Reserve and Army National Guard troops.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/soldiers-refuse-vaccination-still-serve-180929890.html

[TheRealNorth]

1. Doesn't mean much

Republicans will reverse the rule once they are in charge. Giving them a dishonorable discharge now would make it harder.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

14. There's no grounds for a dishonorable discharge.

"General Discharge" at worst. There's no big crime being committed.

But you're right that another administration could reverse this.

[bluesbassman]

16. More than "General", Article 92 provides for a "Bad Conduct" and "Dishonorable".

"The maximum punishment for a violation or failure to obey lawful general order or regulation is dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for two years.

For violation of or failure to obey other lawful orders, the maximum punishment is a bad-conduct discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for six months."

Do I think the DOD is going to push for these? No, it's too political and may have unintended consequences. I think they should, but that's just my feeling in the matter as a vet who had all manner of shit injected into his arms and never thought even once about objecting to it. So I guess the "flagging" route is the next best thing.

[sop]

2. More disgruntled ex-military to swell Oathkeepers' ranks.

[James48]

3. The max time

they would likely be able to stay is two or three years. Almost all reenlistments and extensions written are for periods of either two years, or three. Rarely does anyone sign on for longer then that as an enlisted person.

Officers would have to go- typically three years in grade - Ian’s if you are lucky, a fourth year to try to advance- but after that- they’ll be gone.

[TomSlick]

4. Simply flagging soldiers is the easy answer but the wrong one.

Soldiers disobeying a lawful order should be court-martialed. The maintenance of good order and discipline demands it.

[Irish_Dem]

7. They should put you in charge.

I agree with you. How does a person in the military get away with disobeying a lawful direct order?
Back in the day when I was an Air Force brat, if the brass ordered active duty and/ or families to do something, we did it, period.

Before being stationed overseas we got a slew of vaccines, including yellow fever, typhoid, cholera, etc. Can you imagine what would have happened if a squadron suffered a cholera outbreak overseas?

Without appropriate vaccines, troops are not combat ready. If they get sick during a mission, it puts everyone at risk.

I remember active duty military personnel getting jailed, losing rank, etc, for getting a severe sunburn to the point they could not put on a uniform. They put the whole group at risk if they could not do their job.

[Bettie]

9. And doesn't this make you wonder if

they will now be allowed to refuse all vaccines? Or what else they will begin to refuse?

This sets a precedent that they can refuse orders because they want to. This group will be allowed to do so, makes sense that there will be other orders they don't want to follow.

[Irish_Dem]

10. Exactly. Impacts good discipline and order as TomSlick points out above.

Also affects morale. How do the folks who follow the orders feel when their colleagues get away with disobeying direct orders?

[TomSlick]

12. I'm just an old retired JAG. No one is going to put me in charge of anything.

I appreciate that "slippery slope" is a logical fallacy but obedience to orders is pretty basic to good order and discipline. If soldiers do not receive swift and sure punishment for refusing an order to accept a vaccine, what happens when the are given an order to charge a defended position?

[Irish_Dem]

13. Yes. If they don't have to follow one order, why should they follow other orders?

Their "religion" or "medical condition" may prevent them from wearing a certain uniform, following direct combat orders, from deploying to certain regions, etc. Order and discipline are gone.

Further, the whole concept of refusing a direct vaccine order based on the rationale that the vaccine is dangerous, not healthy, etc. is certainly a slippery slope in the military. Many orders during combat are dangerous, and certainly not healthy. "I don't want to get the vaccine as it might harm my body. Also, I am not piloting a bomber over enemy territory as I might get shot down and that would harm my body too."

And what about morale issues? I would imagine that the service members who do follow orders are not too happy to see others getting away with disobedience.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

8. Yup,

without discipline and morale all you have is a bunch of rag tag armed mobs.

In the Marines, obedience of lawful orders was constantly pounded into our heads, especially the enlisted and NCO ranks.

Semper Fi.

[crickets]

5. Wow. That's some serious discipline there. nt

[Hekate]

6. In the end, very few will remain unvaccinated and insubordinate

Very few.

[Bettie]

11. But the ones who do remain unvaccinated

are also likely to never, ever stop talking about it. Antivaxxers can't seem to shut their pie holes about it.

[dsc]

15. I am old enough to remember when Washington State was forced to fire Col. Cammermeyer

for being a lesbian. I also remember that we discharged a large percentage of our Arabic translators over them being gay.