One of the things that doomed Weimar Germany

[thucythucy]

was how the courts--where most of the judges were hold-overs from the authoritarian era of Kaiser Wilhelm II--consistently refused to hold right wing extremists accountable for their violence against anti-fascist and anti-right opposition. This included letting brown-shirted thugs off entirely, or handing out laughably light sentences to those who were guilty of threatening or assaulting or even murdering those they opposed. Even the assassins of high government officials were treated with kid gloves--as long as the assassinated victims were Social Democrats, or Jews, or both.

I leave it to you all to draw any analogy relating to recent events.

[tblue37]

1. K&R for visibility. nt

[Ninga]

2. Read.

[Bettie]

3. K&R

There seem to be parallels.

I bet there was a lot of "we don't want this to look political" going on too.

[wnylib]

22. No, I don't think so. As carryovers

from the German Empire under Kaiser Bill, they would have had very conservative, pro authoritarian views and a strong opposition to liberalism and socialism. They might not have been fascists themselves, but they would have favored right wing politics over anything liberal, which they viewed as anarchist at best.

[LiberalFighter]

55. They wouldn't had been concerned about it being political at that time.

[yardwork]

4. Clear comparisons.

[triron]

5. Seems like we're getting there.

[malaise]

6. K & R

Great post

[FoxNewsSucks]

7. It worked for them then,

and fascists have done nothing but refine and improve their tactics since then.

Remember, MOscow Mitch kept the Senate in session, skipping the big summer vacation, specifically to pack the courts with rightwing corporate fascist judges as fast as possible.

[kairos12]

8. When I see the Trump Flag caravans tooling around the city

it reminds of those newsreels of Brownshirts waving Nazi flags driving through Berlin.

Weimar stood by and watched.

[KS Toronado]

14. Prior to the 2016 election

there was a caravan of over a hundred trump flag wavers driving around our town of approximately 20,000,
and I felt like I was living in Nazi Germany.

[wnylib]

23. One difference in our favor.

The Weimar Republic was only a couple decades old when the Nazis took over. Prior to that they had an absolutist monarchy under Kaisers Wilhelm I and his grandson, Wilhelm II.

The US has 245 years of democrstic government experience. That does not mean that democracy could not fail here. But it does mean that we know what democracy feels like. We are experienced at protests and expectations of rights.

[thucythucy]

46. This is indeed a huge difference.

Also--and we sometimes forget this--nothing quite like Hitler and the Nazis had ever been seen before. That is, a charismatic authoritarian using the newly invented mass media--radio, movies, newsreels--as well as street violence, xenophobia, racism and anti-Semitism--to seize power and then consolidate that power to a point even Roman emperors would have envied.

It was all unprecedented (just as was Stalin's Terror)--nothing like it had ever happened before, certainly not within living memory.

We on the other hand have the example of what went so fatally wrong in Germany.

Let's hope our democratic traditions--such as they are--and the lessons of history are enough to prevent another, similar catastrophe.

[KS Toronado]

66. May I build on what you wrote?

Nothing quite like Qrump and the QublicOns had ever been seen before. That is, a charismatic authoritarian using the
newly invented mass media--Facebook, Tweeter, FQX noise--as well as street violence, xenophobia, racism and 2nd
amendment--to seize power and then consolidate that power to a point even Democrats would have envied.

[DENVERPOPS]

33. All across America

every misfit whacko in the U.S. finally found a place where they truly felt they "belonged"...........

WASF

[SergeStorms]

9. Amen.

But it can't happen here. The exceptionalism of the United States will prevent that. Right?

For all who are suggesting we're making much - too much - out of this verdict, and that we should just take a few deep breaths and relax, your next deep breath may just be your last.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[Poiuyt]

15. Sinclair Lewis

?v=1545167426

[mrsadm]

53. I've always objected to "American Exceptionalism"

We're human beings like everyone else on the planet.

[wnylib]

54. I've always thought that it's total BS.

Nationalist BS.

[KS Toronado]

10. I've been wrong before

But didn't the Nazis paint themselves as being "Social Democrats" to appeal to the masses,
when in fact they were evil Fascists?

[ancianita]

12. Yes. As soon as socialists joined the party, nazi fascists murdered them & forbade using "socialist"

in speaking of their party, all the way up to Hitler, who never used the term again.

[Voltaire2]

19. Not quite. Not Democratic, sort of socialist.

If you’re truly interested look up Strasserism. The ‘left wing’ of the Nazi party developed its own unique theory of anti-Semitic anti-capitalism. They opposed Jewish financial capitalism and viewed their movement as a class struggle against what they viewed as a global economic system controlled by Jewish bankers.

The Nazi right in contrast focused on culture - they were going to purify western civilization by ridding it of primarily Jewish corruption, which corruption explicitly included socialism.

In 1934 the Strasserist wing was purged, the night of the long knives, with most members murdered.

[thucythucy]

39. The Social Democrats were a specific left wing party

that had been around since the years of the German Empire under the Kaisers.

It was the largest party in Germany until the 1930s, the party that was largely responsible for the founding of the Weimar Republic. It was liberal, pro-labor, pro-women's rights, pro-free speech--in short, everything the Nazis hated.

As was pointed out in another post here, there was a sort of "left wing" of the Nazi Party that seemed to take the "socialist" part of "National Socialist German Workers Party" seriously. They were against the evolution and importation of such capitalist--"Jewish"--developments as department stores (which competed with mom and pop shops) larger farms, assembly line production as opposed to skilled crafts, and such. After the seizure of power in 1933 these elements wanted "a second revolution" to implement their "reforms." Hitler instead made a deal with big business and the military (which was bothered by the existence of the Storm Troopers, seeing them as competition) and purged anyone in the party who advocated this sort of "socialism." In one night alone hundreds were accused of "treason" and executed.

This "Night of the Long Knives" in 1934 cemented Hitler's power, not only by eliminating all opposition inside the party, and terrorizing anyone else thinking of dissent, but also by guaranteeing he had the continued support of the largest German corporations and the German military.

Getting back to the Social Democrats, after the Reichstag fire and passage of the Enabling Act the Social Democratic Party was banned, its newspapers shut down, its leaders arrested or driven into exile, its assets seized.

After the end of World War II it again became a major political party in Germany, along with the more conservative Christian Democrats. In recent years its support has declined, but it remains a force in German politics.

[Act_of_Reparation]

56. No.

Social Democrats already existed, and the Nazi Party was in firm opposition to them.

"National Socialism" is its own thing. It is a far-right ideology, completely separate and distinct from traditional Marxist socialism.

[DFW]

59. Just read some of what Goebbels wrote

„One class has fulfilled its historical mission and is about to yield to another. The bourgeoisie has to yield to the working class … Whatever is about to fall should be pushed. We are all soldiers of the revolution. We want the workers' victory over filthy lucre. That is socialism.“

Source: https://quotepark.com/authors/joseph-goebbels/socialism/

„The people's community must not be a mere phrase, but a revolutionary achievement following from the radical carrying out of the basic life needs of the working class. A ruthless battle against corruption! A war against exploitation, freedom for the workers! The elimination of all economic-capitalist influences on national policy. Maintaining a rotten economic system has nothing to do with nationalism, which is an affirmation of the Fatherland. The sin of liberal thinking was to overlook socialism’s nation-building strengths, thereby allowing its energies to go in anti-national directions.“ — Joseph Goebbels https://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/haken32.htm “Those Damn Nazis: Why Are We Socialists?”

Source: https://quotepark.com/authors/joseph-goebbels/socialism/



„We are against the political bourgeoisie, and for genuine nationalism! We are against Marxism, but for true socialism! We are for the first German national state of a socialist nature! We are for the National Socialist German Workers’ Party!“

Source: https://quotepark.com/authors/joseph-goebbels/socialism/

[JudyM]

11. K&R.

[Ponietz]

13. 1/6/21 and the Beer Hall Putsch are analogs

Looks like Hitler will have served more prison time than the blubbering Schlump. From appearances one could argue the Weimar government was stronger than ours now.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

16. Yes, that's yet another similarity with the current USA.

The Nazis were a minority in Germany too, but they achieved dictatorial power by limiting free speech. (Remember when Trump said that newspapers like the NYT should be shut down, after they criticized him?)

In fact, they declared it illegal to criticize Hitler or the Nazis. And they had their cult of Nazi followers who gladly reported neighbors if they violated that law, as Trump cultists would also do.

After seeing other people whisked away by the Gestapo for such "law-breaking", most Germans learned to keep their mouths shut as their country descended into hell.

Which is why I get irked whenever I see complaints about the mainstream media here, but I usually restrain myself from replying. Then I'll usually see some valid complaints about reporting that wasn't factual, which is indeed a problem whenever that happens. (Not that the right-wing authoritarian fascists in this country care when Fox News repeatedly lies.)

My oldest brother worked under a German physicist named Fritz at Wright-Patt AFB years ago, and he thought at the time that Fritz was being overly paranoid about his predictions that the USA was heading toward fascism after Reagan was elected. (That physicist was mostly bothered by what he heard several Americans saying back then, though, not only because Reagan was elected.)

[luv2fly]

24. Maybe not to the same extreme just yet but

You wrote (but I added the bold):

"After seeing other people whisked away by the Gestapo for such "law-breaking", most Germans learned to keep their mouths shut as their country descended into hell."

Seems in some ways we're already there. I had a huge Obama sign in my yard in '08 but I'll never do signs again. I've had bumper stickers on my car supporting people and things over the years... never again. I signed a recall petition to dump Scott Walker not knowing that information became publicly searchable forever... I'd have to think twice about doing that again. It worries that we might need to stay silent to one day stay alive, and how NOT democratic is that.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

26. I've been secretive too!

I'm actually a registered "Independent" now, after learning that my voter registration is publicly available in Ohio.

When I've read comments on DU that just about every Independent is really a Republican, I usually don't even reply to them anymore. I'm probably more "far left" than they are, and I'm an all-Democratic voter who takes the time to learn the political affiliations of judges and others who don't have their party listed on the ballots.

I used to be a registered Democrat, but I changed it after almost every company manager and supervisor that I ever met was a pro-Feudalism and pro-Fascist Republican. If I didn't need a job to earn money and survive, then I'd gladly identify myself more accurately in the voter registration rolls.

It really wasn't much of a problem until the non-stop demonization of liberals by people like Rush Limbaugh.

[mnhtnbb]

63. You are not alone.

I've been registered unaffiliated here in NC for years. Wouldn't consider ever voting for a Republican.

[DENVERPOPS]

37. I am in lockstep with you luv2fly

I have believed for many years right now that we are on the verge of an overthrow of Democracy here in the U.S.

Since Trump's four year nightmare, and especially watching Jan 6th I truly feel we are one millimeter away from the new Republicans taking over at any time. They will install a Corporate Fascist Tyranny, and it won't be much of a leap from where they have taken the U.S. so far..........

Since 2000, I have done the same as you did with yard election signs and ANY bumper stickers on cars. As well as signing anything political in nature. (Or anything period)

I joked to friends that I have a Trump/Pence yard sign hidden away in my garage. If "they" make another major push or are successful I will post the yard sign in my front yard........LOL

By The Way: Anyone can access the voter registration information in any state. All someone or some group needs to do it search it for someone they don't agree with. It gives the name and address of every individual registered to vote.......and with which party they are registered.

It is unfathomable to most people just how much information about each individual is out there, and just how easy it is to get a hold of that information.......

[Ilsa]

57. I think about staying quiet as well, then I remember

Alexei Navalny and his courage in opposing Putin. Honestly, I don't know what I'd do.

[Cosmocat]

71. I was a teenager during the Reagen years

I could feel the change starting then, and I have had increasing rates of heartburn since the 90s knowing this was where it was headed.

It was fairly obvious to me as a very young adult, and it has incrementally gotten worse each and every year during the last 40 years.

This shit didn't start with 45. His master skill is knowing and stoking the lesser aspects of the human spirit, but he just plugged into what the republican party / CONservative movement had done for decades and took it next level.

He didn't cause it, it was headed this way in a slow and steady manner, he just amped it up by an order of magnitude.

[cadoman]

17. so what can we do to protect our anti-fascists here in the US?

[AZLD4Candidate]

18. I expanded on your absolutely accurate post in one of my own

Tell me what you think. Here it is

[DENVERPOPS]

40. Thank you

Clear, concise, and dead on accurate and to the point.

According to a psychiatrist/psychoanalyst person I know, for a period of time the Psychiatrists couldn't figure out how they managed to seemingly brainwash so many people across our nation. Then they figured out that if the Right Wing could get these people to watch FOX NEWS and listen to Right Wing radio as their only "News", that they have basically performed, over the public airwaves, a massive indoctrination of the minds of the Tens of Millions around the entire nation............

And Putin is laughing his ass off. Russian people are shaking their heads. They are amazed at how easily Putin has been in splitting the U.S., destroying America, and trashing democracy without firing a single rocket, or starting a war............And how easy it was to play Trump and the Republican Politicians to do his bidding................

[AZLD4Candidate]

43. I was teaching in Malaysia when Trump was elected. All of my students (ALL OF THEM)

came up to me, being the history/geography teacher and Head of Department), asking me how Americans could elect a man like that.

I couldn't give them a simple answer. For a humanities teacher to be lost for words, reason, and logic takes a lot to accomplish.

I always asked my parents why we were in Vietnam as a child. They gave me the answer I will give to my children when they ask me why we were in Iraq and why Trump was elected: "I don't know."

As the play Inherit the Wind (a play I quote constantly) said: "I figure the man who has everything figured out is a fool. College examinations not withstanding, it takes a very intelligent man to say I just don't know the answer."

[thucythucy]

41. I think your post hits a lot of important points

as to what led to the Nazi seizure of power.

The disastrous inflation of the 1920s--which essentially wiped out the German middle class--the humiliation of the defeat in World War I (and the false accusation that the German military was "stabbed in the back" by liberals and the left when in fact the war was lost due to the incompetence of the military) were also important factors.

There were also the German equivalent of our "culture wars"--conservative backlash against greater rights and public access for women, greater tolerance (at least in Berlin) of LGBTQ people, plus developments in art, music, architecture, and a general loosening of the strait jacket of Prussian and Church conservatism.

Finally--and this is the point that I was alluding to in my OP--the role of violence in the Nazi seizure of power can't be stressed enough. Even before 1933 there were assassinations, street brawls, bombings and arson against "liberal" or "communist" entities and much deadly political violence in general. There was also violence from the left--in particular from the German Communist Party--but not nearly on the scale or with the effectiveness of that of the right. And as I said, the courts--mostly presided over by judges held over from the Empire of the Kaisers--sided with the right. In fact, so compliant was the court system to the Nazis that the majority of judges stayed on under Hitler, evidently having no problem enforcing "the law" under the new regime.

Always glad to find someone who teaches and discusses history! And thanks for your post and OP.

Best wishes.

[DENVERPOPS]

52. great info

thanks for your information and sharing it with us

[mountain grammy]

20. Kristallnacht

Kristallnacht
Nov 9, 1938 – Nov 10, 1938
Kristallnacht or the Night of Broken Glass, also called the November pogrom, was a pogrom against Jews carried out by the Nazi Party's Sturmabteilung paramilitary forces along with civilians throughout Nazi Germany on 9–10 November 1938. The German authorities looked on without intervening. Wikipedia
Dates: Nov 9, 1938 – Nov 10, 1938
Deaths: 91+
Target: Jews
Perpetrators: Sturmabteilung (SA) stormtroopers, German civilians
Motive: Assassination of Ernst vom Rath, Antisemitism
Location: Nazi Germany, Austria, Free City of Danzig

Of course there have been many Kristallnachts in America starting with the American Indians https://www.zinnedproject.org/news/tdih/pequot-massacre/

and so many Tulsas .. right here in the "land of the free and home of the brave" and of course "with liberty and justice for all"

[American Interregnum]

21. Also, the "News" Media

Which, actually, was less partisan than Facebook, FOX and QAnon today.

[paleotn]

25. Hitler himself got a ridiculously light sentence...

after the Beer Hall Putsch. Apparently, insurrection wasn't that big a deal for the Wiemar government.

[thucythucy]

44. Not only a light sentence,

but the conditions of his imprisonment were absurdly comfortable.

He had his own "cell"--more like a hotel room--was allowed books and home cooked meals and all the visitors he wanted to see. The authorities even allowed his personal secretary to move into the prison with him.

It was more like an extended stay at a hotel than at a prison.

Also--as I recall--despite the light sentence he was granted an early release.

[ananda]

27. I draw a direct analogy to present day USA.

Sigh

[PlanetBev]

28. Excellent post, thucy

I’ve been struggling with fear and depression over what’s taking place in this country. History teaches us that no matter how overwhelming the opposition looks, we can still fight this lunacy and win.

[Mr. Ected]

29. We doom ourselves with our love affair with "liberty" and "freedom"

Because those attributes in the hands of dangerous people can be distorted and warped into something nefarious and dangerous. We permit FOX news to report bullshit because "Freedom". We allow people to walk around public areas with assault rifles because "Freedom". We allow the unvaccinated to cavort among the vaccinated because "Freedom". We allow mega-corporations and mega-churches to influence elections but not pay taxes because "Freedom".

Freedom only works as a covenant between the free and the nation. Unchecked, it's dangerous, like handing a sharp knife to a child.

[gulliver]

30. There was no Internet then

And the Rittenhouse case is nothing like the brown shirts. Republicans love it when some on our side let their emotions flow rather than looking at the facts of the case coolly. The Rittenhouse incident could and should be a huge force for the Democratic side. But the odds are we won't let it. I hope I'm wrong, but the emoters and oversimplifiers usually jump out in front of the cameras to advocate for our causes incompetently, and thus snatch defeat from the jaws of victory time and time again.

[thucythucy]

47. I'm not clear on how the existence of the Internet

somehow lessons the danger of political violence sanctioned by compliant courts. From what I've seen it's actually exacerbated the danger, enabling the Q-anon and other nonsense far more reach than they would have otherwise.

But perhaps I've misunderstood your post?

I too hope that this travesty of a verdict will solidify opposition to the continued mainstreaming of the "alt-right" but I'm unsure how pointing out possible parallels in history will prevent this. It seems to me highlighting the danger is an important part of organizing against it.

And I think what gets portrayed by the media has less to do with who "jumps out in front of the cameras" than what those who own and run the various outlets decide to show us. All those Trump supporters interviewed ad nauseum by CNN and such, all the right wingers who appear on the Sunday talk shows aren't there because they "jump out" but rather because that's who the various schedulers decide will get on.

There are lots of cogent and articulate people on our side who never get the chance to reach a broad mainstream audience for just this reason.

[gulliver]

50. It's the Internet and smartphones in everyone's hands.

True, the Internet spreads cult manias and feeds feelings of widespread anger and misunderstanding. But we'll never see epic parades of goose-stepping soldiers or death camps. We're getting close to surveillance of everyone by everyone. Individuals and multi-national corporations aren't going to let a Third Reich happen. They don't let anything happen.

Plus, don't forget the guns everywhere in the country in hands across the political spectrum. That raises the possibility of localized violence, but I would argue it makes a totalitarian dictatorship basically impossible.

That doesn't mean Trump and his Republicans can't disgrace and kill us all, of course. With Trump in the White House and his finger on the nuclear button, there's always a chance that the Republicans could far outdo the Nazis in terms of death toll. Republicans can continue to let climate change ruin the future for our kids. They can keep abetting COVID in its war against humanity by failing to vaccinate their lower end numbskulls. They can continue to stand in the way of energy modernization jobs and innovation...

[thucythucy]

62. You're probably right about this, at least I hope so.

But let's not forget that the whole point of Nazi street violence was to intimidate any opposition. The violence was right out on the street for everyone to see, that was the point. Claudia Koonz, a historian of that era, talks about "the development of the cold eye," how average Germans became both intimidated by the violence and potential of violence, but also learned to look the other way when it happened.

And a smart phone in every hand--and the resulting "surveillance of everyone by everyone"--also has the potential to make suppression easier. In Nazi Germany there were "block wardens" whose job it was to report to the Gestapo anyone they suspected of not towing the line. It would seem to me that smart phones would make that job much easier--make it more difficult for people to go about their concerns undetected.

Not to mention smart phones have their own built in surveillance potential, which the Chinese government seems to be putting to use.

One other problem with the internet is how dependent we all are--to a greater or lesser degree--on it being there for information, political organizing, fundraising or whatever. We've lost almost all our locally produced newspapers, and paper newsletters and pamphlets are rapidly becoming a thing of the distant pass. If the internet were to go down for any extended period the ability to organize an opposition could well be crippled. I still remember election day 2016, when DU was hacked by the Trumpists.

And multinationals were quite happy with the Hitler regime, right up until 1939-40 and even beyond. One of Hitler's biggest supporters was Henry Ford. IG Farben and other major corporations bid on the contracts to construct the gas chambers at Birkenau and the slave labor camp at Auschwitz. So I don't know if we can count on multinationals to save us-especially since so many seem intent on destroying the environment by denying the reality of climate change.

Nazi Germany wasn't built in a day, and even after Hitler became Chancellor in 1933 many of the changes happened gradually. One British observer, married to a German and living in Germany during this time, likened what happened to being put under anesthesia. "The changes came on us drip by drip..."

Anyway, thanks for your comments, and best wishes.

[gulliver]

65. You bring up some very good points

Thanks for your comments and best wishes to you also. Lots of food for thought in this OP and discussion!

[Mysterian]

31. Also......corrupt judges

Like the fascist judge in the Rottenhouse trial.

[moondust]

32. Hitler's cushy prison life

Adolf Hitler enjoyed special treatment while jailed in 1924 and was allowed hundreds of visitors – sometimes unsupervised – including some 30 to 40 celebrants of his 35th birthday.
~
Sentenced to five years in prison, Hitler was granted early release and ended up serving about nine months.

His right-wing politics and German nationalism won him friends among the German establishment, including the First World War hero Erich Ludendorff. He came to visit Hitler several times in jail and the Prussian general was allowed to see the former Austrian corporal unsupervised for as long as he wanted, the documents show.
~
"His time in prison was more like a holiday," Mr Behringer said.
~
Hitler's cushy prison life in the 1920s revealed

[dalton99a]

51. +1

[Pepsidog]

34. Look at the recent gas pipeline ransomware attack that disrupted the east coast gas supply. I th

that was a dry run for future elections. Widespread disruption of internet services or gas supply close to an election could easily sway people to vote for a strongman-type figure promising retribution. A guy like DeSantis will attack Dems as weak and ineffective and people will buy it out of fear just like they sold the so-called “war on terror”. We are one critical infrastructure attack away from the election of an authoritarian strongman.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

35. Republicans might even cause a terrorist act like 9/11...

... if they think they can blame it on the Democrats.

That would be another borrowed tactic from the Nazis and their Reichstag fire.

Some of them have basically already tried that in regard to the January 6th insurrection, but that's too ridiculous for even gullible Americans to believe, except for the most extreme ones.

Military leaders and others recommended to JFK that they commit terrorist acts against Americans and then blame it on Cuba! That's in a record from 1962, which amazingly was kept for posterity (after enough time had passed) thanks to our bureaucracy.

JFK didn't approve it, of course!

Operation Northwoods:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

[Pepsidog]

36. I'm amazed at how much I don't know about history. I like to think I am fairly well read and have a

a better than average grasp regarding American history I learn something new on DU.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

38. I first heard about it from Noam Chomsky a few years ago.

Several people on DU don't seem to like him, and I tend to agree that his political ideas (basically anarchist socialism) would likely never work in this country, but that guy is like a walking encyclopedia of knowledge about our USA political history. A true genius, in my opinion, at least in that way.

[Kaleva]

42. The Allies probably doomed the Weimer Republic more then anything else.

The reparations destroyed the economy and the terms of the Treaty of Versailles created widespread resentment within Germany which the Nazi's exploited.

On the other hand, General Foch thought the terms too lenient and predicted Germany would rise again in twenty years.

"This is not peace. It is an armistice for 20 years".

The Treaty of Versailles was something of a muddled mess. It was strict enough to create widespread resentment and severe economic hardship in Germany but not strict enough to actually prevent Germany from rearming and becoming a threat to peace.

[thucythucy]

48. The whole "stab in the back"

conspiracy BS pushed by the right (and particularly the military) didn't help either.

Even so, Weimar Germany was doing pretty well by 1929--the economy was recovering, the reparations were being renegotiated, and people had begun to recover at least somewhat from the trauma of 1914 to 1925.

Then came the Wall Street crash and the Great Depression, which hit Germany harder than even the US. That was the nail in the coffin of German democracy pre-1945.

[Kaleva]

58. The Great Depression probably sealed the fate of the Weimar Republic.

It was after the Crash that Hitler began his rise to power.

In the later 20's the Nazi's primary foe was the communists.

[housecat]

45. The disease is spreading again. What is the cure? DU would make a great thinktank.

[Hekate]

49. KnR

[BLM4ever]

60. Knr

Knr

[DFW]

61. One of the main reasons the Weimarer Republik failed, and hasn't yet been cited here

It was corrected after World War II, as Adenauer and the rest recognized the problem.

In the Weimarer Republik, every tiny party that got a few votes was allowed representation in the Parliament. Debate time was often taken up and wasted by useless boutique parties that nevertheless enjoyed status that enabled them to stifle and cripple the government. A governing coalition was impossible to assemble. Dozens of parties were represented. One reason the National Socialists of Hitler and Göbbels had any appeal was their ability to claim--not entirely without justification--that nothing ever got done, and that they WOULD get things done. Like with Trump, many voters figured, "well, how bad could they possibly BE?" Twelve years later, when all of Germany was in smoking ruins, they had their answer.

The Constitution of the Federal Republic, brought into being in 1949, mandated by law that NO party getting less than 5% of the vote would be allowed representation in any government--federal, state or city. Fringe parties could organize and exist to their hearts' content (and indeed still do), but they would not have seats in government until they got at least SOME (as in 5%) popular backing.

I think that instinctively, if not consciously, that is the reason that members of the House and Senate as diverse as the Squad and Manchin/Sinema all remain Democrats. Were they all members of tiny boutique parties, they would all be members of insignificant fringe parties that could make noise and stymie votes, but as troublemakers permanently keeping the Democrats from a voting majority. The Republicans haven't overlooked this, either. They haven't split into the Republican Realists and the Republican Crazies, although the split is a de facto reality.

In Germany, 25 years ago, the Greens were looking at the same situation. There were the "Realos (the pragmatists) " and the "Fundis (the strict fundamentalists)." The Realos won out, and the Party became a real force in German politics. They were in the governing coalition for a while (and, next month, soon will be again), and a former prominent demonstrator (Joschka Fischer) was the Green Foreign Minister, eloquently telling Donald Rumsfeld to his face, and on TV, that he hadn't presented any compelling reason why Germany should follow Dick Cheney in the Iraq invasion. The Fundis either faded or went with the former East German Socialists, who evolved from the official East German ruling party, the SED (Socialist Unity Party of Germany) which became the PDS (Party of Democratic Socialism) which became a large part of a slightly larger tent just called "Die Linke," or "the Left." They are currently in the process of re-enacting their own version of the ending scene of Animal Farm, but are expected to weather the storm.

[thucythucy]

67. You raise an excellent point.

The drafters of the Weimar constitution were so dedicated to the ideal that everyone be represented that they didn't consider the potential for absolute paralysis they were building into their government. This was in part, I think, a reaction to the basically authoriarian government of the Kaisers, and how this had led them into the catastrophe of the Great War.

I also think they didn't count on how two major parties--the Nazis and the Communists--would be determined not to govern but rather to make constitutional government impossible. We here in the US can hear some ominious echoes of that today.

I think of all the many factors that doomed Weimar--discussed here today--the one that hurt the most or was at any rate among the most damaging was that it was associated with the surrender of November 1918 and then the Versaille Treaty. The injustice of this was enormous, seeing's how it was Ludendorf and the military who insisted on the cease fire. The Kaiser and the military blundered into the war, the military botched both the military and diplomatic efforts, the military insisted on the surrender, and then turned around and blamed the Social Democrats for everything that went wrong as a result. This meant that very many Germans never considered Weimar to be the legitmate government in the first place, but rather a regime imposed by a conspiracy of leftists together with "international Jewry."

This, among other things, is what makes Trump and the GOP charges of election fraud so dangerous. It works to justify almost any act of subversion or violence as acts of patriotism. The assassins of Rathenau, the thugs in the Freikorps and the more radical elements of the Steel Helmets all considered themselves to be patriots, standing up for "the real Germany."

"Make Germany Great Again" and "God is with Us," were among their most popular slogans.

Thank you for your post and for the synopsis of post-war German politics.

Best wishes.

[DFW]

68. For the record, it wasn't my synopsis

My wife is German and went to school here in Germany. All schoolkids here learn about this.

[bucolic_frolic]

64. For those seeking a silver lining

We do have a divided judicial system, and a litigious one.

We do have real-time communication, and an active base.

These were lacking in Weimar Germany.

Don't be controlled by fear, and resolve to be strong but prudent.

[uponit7771]

69. K&R,

[Captain_New_York]

70. See Babylon Berlin on Netflix

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon_Berlin