Leave Joe Manchin ALONE!

[bluewater]

This is the thread to voice how unfairly harsh people have been on Senator Joe Manchin.

Feel free to show your support for Senator Manchin.

I'll start.

Senator Manchin has a 100% record on supporting President Biden's agenda in Congress, to date.
And this past month he has saved the country by stopping the passage of expanded social safety net programs that are just too expensive.

[MontanaMama]

3. Wish I could rec your post.

100% FTG

[bluewater]

4. Rec the OP then!

[Celerity]

31. lol

[George II]

17. There have been 453 votes in the Senate since the term began in January.

[Fiendish Thingy]

56. How many votes on legislation? (Not counting procedural votes) nt

[George II]

62. I don't know. You can find them on the internet, I'm not poring over 453 votes.

[Fiendish Thingy]

80. I believe the answer is two, possibly three

The American Rescue plan, the debt ceiling and the BIF.

The rest were procedural votes and nominations.

Your Manchin sycophancy is duly noted.

[George II]

81. Try a LOT more than two or three. If three were the case, everyone's ratings would be....

...100% or 66% or 33% or 0%. If only two the ratings would be 100% or 50% or 0%.

That's the math.

[Javaman]

47. +1000 nt

[doc03]

2. Let's go Manchin. nt

[Fiendish Thingy]

6. I see what you did there. Nt

[FoxNewsSucks]

14. hee hee hee hee

[Celerity]

32. roflmaoo

[bluewater]

33. lol I finally got the reference!

[choie]

75. Nice!

n/a

[BlueJac]

5. Just can't do that.

[bluewater]

68. Understandable.

[CentralMass]

7. To quote Manchin. "I'm sorry but I just can't do it. "

[bluewater]

9. +1000

[Ani Yun Wiya]

8. Give JM a chance

He needs to save the USA from the horrors of the "Green New Deal"!!!

[bluewater]

11. Manchin's stance on the environment has nothing to do with his coal company.

[Wounded Bear]

10. Reminds me of this (anybody good at Photoshop?)...

[JohnnyRingo]

12. Although I get the sarcasm....

Last edited Tue Nov 2, 2021, 04:01 PM - Edit history (1)

...I want to like Joe Manchin
Indeed I do like Joe Manchin. He's a moderate democrat who is unique in that he can hold the party position in West By God Virginia for as long as he wants.

They still name things after him down there. They love him because they see him as one of their own: A decent and likeable hillbilly who works for the coal company. As of late he's had to walk a razor's edge between the party of Hillary and MAGA Fever that has invaded the Mountain State like so many rural areas.

Perhaps he's outlasted his shelf life as a democrat, but I'm not sure who could replace him with a D next to their name.

[bluewater]

15. Seriously, I honestly thought Manchin would be satisfied with all the concessions

that President Biden has already made in trying to win Manchin's support for the Build Back Better reconciliation bill.

I truly believed that by now Manchin would publicly state he supports the President's latest framework.

But he has not. It's inexplicable.

[KT2000]

13. Did Manchin enjoy the trump years

because what he is doing may very well send us there again. Biden's polling numbers have been affected by what he is doing. He has become cruel.

[lagomorph777]

59. Yes, he did.

[FoxNewsSucks]

16. 100% record?

Didn't he block Biden's nominee?

I know he voted for MF45's nominees, but if I remember right, he objected to Biden's.


One more reason to add to the FTGs

[bluewater]

19. Nope, Manchin has a 100% voting record supporting Biden, to date.

Manchin supporters that feel people have been too harsh on him this past month point to the 538 article showing that.

To be fair, it's a short record this early in Biden's presidency, but it is 100%.

[Celerity]

34. Neena Tanden's nomination was withdrawn after Manchin publicly went on the record and said No

plus he and Sinema have gutted out $3.8 trillion and counting, including many of Biden's centrepiece programmes, from the 2 infrastructure bills

that 100% record (which is for final votes only) is extremely misleading

[George II]

46. Manchin wasn't the first one to balk at Tanden's nomination, it was the Committee chairman....

In fact the nomination was withdrawn before the Budget Committee voted on her nomination. Manchin isn't on the Budget Committee.

[Celerity]

58. Sander's never came out and said nope, no way, like Manchin did. Manchin blocked Neera Tanden for

OMB head and forced Biden to pull the plug on her nomination when he went public, on the record, as a no vote for her nomination.

Sen. Manchin opposes Neera Tanden as Biden's budget chief, imperiling nomination

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/joe-manchin-comes-out-against-neera-tanden-biden-s-omb-n1258387

White House pulls nomination of embattled budget chief pick Neera Tanden

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/white-house-pulls-nomination-embattled-budget-chief-pick-neera-tanden-n1258738

Senate Budget Committee Chair Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., clashed with Tanden, a former adviser to Hillary Clinton, during his two presidential runs. He did not take a position on her nomination.

Sanders overall has been VASTLY more supportive of Biden and his agenda overall than Manchin and Sinema have. Sanders has not blocked any bill from passing, has not gutted any bill.

Sanders voted against Vilsack (he and others wanted Marcia Fudge there) in February for Secretary of Agriculture, at the urging of multiple progressive (concerned about corporate consolidation of farming that Vilsack did little to stop his first go-round as AgSec) and black farmers/civil rights groups who vehemently opposed his track record, especially over the Shirley Sherrod case. (Vilsack was easily confirmed, 92-7 and afterward, Sanders said "I think he'll be fine, but not as strong as I would like." )

His other No vote, from late spring, was against the Endless Frontier Act, when Maria Cantwell tossed in an amendment that was a $10 billion giveaway to Bezos via Blue Origin and then actively worked to scupper his amendment that would have pulled it out. The Act past easily, 68-32.

Sanders materially blocked nothing via either protest vote.

Unlike Manchin and Sinema, Sanders (and the vast majority of other Dems) has been tirelessly trying to get as much as is possible of Biden's agenda passed intact.


It is pure sophistry to try and posit some sort of material equivalence between Manchin and Sanders in terms of deleterious actual outcomes when it comes to Biden's agenda. Manchin (and Sinema as well) have done a shedload more actual damage.

[George II]

65. She asked that the nomination be withdrawn before the Budget Committee voted. If there was no....

..Democratic Senator blocking her nomination she would have been confirmed.

[Celerity]

67. she would not have been confirmed because Manchin said NO, and no Rethug was coming to her aid.

I have already put up the documentation (like I always do), you just (like you have for months) just keep on repeating the same old misinformation.

You need some new material.

[bluewater]

69. ikr

[George II]

73. Here's a NYT article about the pushback she got. Senator Manchin's name isn't even mentioned in it:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/10/us/politics/neera-tanden-bernie-sanders.html

And one from Politico, no mention of Manchin:

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/10/sander-tanden-confirmation-468350

CNN, no mention of Manchin:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/10/politics/bernie-sanders-neera-tanden-hearing/index.html

Independent, no Manchin:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/bernie-sanders-neera-tanden-senate-confirmation-tweets-b1800516.html

Once again, Manchin isn't even on the Budget Committee that is chaired by Sanders, and she withdrew her nomination prior to the committee voting on her.

[wellst0nev0ter]

78. And none of them saying Sanders was against her nomination

Keep digging.

[George II]

79. You have to read the articles.

[wellst0nev0ter]

83. Assuming I didn't

[Celerity]

85. see post 84, the poster only posted articles from 9 days BEFORE Manchin came out & publicly said No

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216007365#post84

[wellst0nev0ter]

86. Oh yeah, forgot about the twitterbot aspect

Always making the same arguments, expecting different results.

[Celerity]

84. all your articles are from 9 days BEFORE Manchin publicly announced he was a NO on Tanden

You are engaged in clear and selective cherry-picking and attempted omissions of key facts that occurred AFTER your articles.

I also already showed that Sanders never took an official public stance.

Of course the hearings were contentious. Tanden slated and smeared Sanders and many others for years (and she apologised) but even then, he never said NO, publicly on the record, like Machin came out on February 19th and did.

Biden eventually pulled her nomination of March 2nd, as I already showed, as he could find no Rethug to cross over and support her, which was needed due to Manchin's defection.


Manchin was the first and only Democratic Senator to officially say he was a NO.

The case is CLOSED.

You cannot selectively and falsely rewrite history to suit your clear anti-Sanders (and anti-AOC and other progressives deemed targets by you and others) agenda. People will hopefully always be there to correct the record.

[lagomorph777]

18. He hasn't voted against everything, because he blocks it before the vote.

I've had extended debates with some here, who don't seem to understand what that means. I've since put them on full ignore, of course.

[bluewater]

21. Exactly, like blocking the major Build Back Better reconciliation bill

and preventing it from being voted on in the Senate would keep Senator Manchin's 100% voting record intact.

But hey, it is what it is and it would be cruel if anyone pointed out how meaningless that statistic is after watching the events of this past month.

[Celerity]

70. Oh, they understand just fine. nt

[Torchlight]

20. Old King Coal is a merry old soul.

Let's bow our heads together and pray he gets those kick-backs before the Christmas rush.

[NurseJackie]

23. I'm certainly glad he's a Democrat instead of Republican.

Count your blessings. We're damned lucky to have him.

All the complaining and hand-wringing won't change a single thing about him.

[bluewater]

24. I prefer to believe Senator Manchin is reachable if enough Democrats call him out

and insist he do the right thing and support president Biden's Build Back Better framework.

No one is irredeemable.

[qazplm135]

25. None of that

Makes him immune to criticism.

[bluewater]

26. But is not supporting half of President Biden's major agenda really a bad thing?

[NurseJackie]

35. Run him out and put a Republican in there... see what happens in a 51/49 Senate.

26. But is not supporting half of President Biden's major agenda really a bad thing?

The alternative is worse. Apparently many want to chase him out and put a Republican in there... just to see what happens in a 51/49 Senate.



Who would you like to replace him with?

He's not going to change, so count your blessings. I'm glad he's one of ours and not one of theirs.

[bluewater]

36. People want to help Manchin change his views and start SUPPORTING the Build Back Better framework.

Again, I think if enough Democrats tell Senator Manchin that he is being wrongheaded in opposing the social safety net programs that he CAN change his views and start supporting the President Biden's Build Back Better framework.

No one is irredeemable.

[NurseJackie]

37. This isn't working. The smears and attacks aren't how minds are changed.

As we've seen from another politician's public harassment, it just hardened Manchin and he dug-in his heels.

[bluewater]

40. I don't think that Senator Manchin spends much time reading DU.

But I could be wrong.

In any case MANY people here on DU have made thoughtful and valid points detailing why senator Manchin is wrong in opposing President Biden's Build Back Better framework.

Again, I hope his fellow Democratic Senators are explaining this to Senator Manchin also.

I personally believe that the warranted criticism IS having a positive effect on Senator Manchin, his demeanor in recent press appearances seems less glib and more thoughtful.

Perhaps when President Biden returns from Europe, he can have another one-on-one discussion with Senator Manchin in the White House and finally get thru to him.

No one is unreachable. No one is irredeemable.

[NurseJackie]

43. Of course he doesn't read DU. That's why all this hair-on-fire ranting is so silly...

... and a waste of time. But, y'all go ahead and get it out of your systems.

[bluewater]

45. Then you weren't talking about DU when you said "it just hardened Manchin and he dug-in his heels"?

OK.

Of course he doesn't read DU. That's why all this hair-on-fire ranting is so silly...

... and a waste of time. But, y'all go ahead and get it out of your systems.

Thanks for participating in this thread then in any case, I respect your right to express your opinions even though I disagree with them.

[NurseJackie]

50. Lulz.

Then you weren't talking about DU when you said "it just hardened Manchin and he dug-in his heels"?

Lulz. Was there any confusion when I said:

As we've seen from another politician's public harassment, it just hardened Manchin and he dug-in his heels.

Games, games, games. Ridiculous. You know exactly what I said, who I was referring to, and what I meant. Encouraging this type of harassment serves no good purpose.

Thanks for participating in this thread then in any case,

Please. Spare me.

I respect your right to express your opinions even though I disagree with them.

Oh, brother.

[bluewater]

53. Enjoy the rest of your day!

[NurseJackie]

55. Ha!

[bluewater]

60. Every post is appreciated.

They all bump the thread.

[NurseJackie]

61. Okay.

They all bump the thread.

But they do little else.

[bluewater]

63. On a discussion forum, sometimes a little bump is all you need.

I'll wait a little longer making my next response to save the bump for when this thread goes lower in the recent posts.

I don't wish anyone to feel ignored!

[NurseJackie]

64. Some more than others.

[bluewater]

82. Absolutely!

[George II]

66. Did you watch his statement yesterday?

[qazplm135]

38. So again

None of that makes him immune to criticism.

You're pushing a strawman. People don't want to replace him with a republican, they'd just like him to stop acting like one.

[NurseJackie]

41. Apparently the smears and insults aren't working. What now?

None of that makes him immune to criticism.

"Criticism."

People don't want to replace him with a republican,

I've seen it right here on DU. Expressions abound that he may as well go ahead and declare he's a Republican. And how he's an "embarrassment to Democrats" he should be kicked out, blah-blah-blah. Silly venting.

You're pushing a strawman.

No I'm not. Damage him enough... kneecap and bloody him enough... and WV-ians will choose a Republican instead of him next time. Or, maybe he'll decide to retire... and then WV will definitely elect a Republican.

Go ahead, get it out of your systems... all the attacks will make ZERO difference in outcome and the chances that this emotionally-driven tactic will backfire continue to grow.

[bluewater]

44. I think you Are selling Senator Manchin short, he IS capable of accepting criticism and can change.

I hope that President Biden invites Senator Manchin to the White House again and stresses how important the Build Back Better framework is to helping hard working families in West Virginia and the country at large.

[NurseJackie]

51. Lulz.

"criticism"

Hysterical.

[qazplm135]

49. Oh please

It's a message board. He's not getting damaged by a message board.

No one has any power here.hes a big boy and he can take criticism particularly when he's acting as he has. All you are really trying to do is squelch criticism because you don't like it not because it will damage him.

And guess what, while progressives may only be a few percentage points of voters in WV, he only won by a few percentage points. So he might want to consider whether his approach to progressives make electoral sense. The damage will come from his own actions and words not ours.

[bluewater]

54. +1000

[bluewater]

42. "People don't want to replace him with a republican, they'd just like him to stop acting like one"

At least to the point of accepting all the concessions President Biden has already made and to FINALLY publicly support the President's Build Back Better framework.

[Celerity]

87. +1

People don't want to replace him with a republican, they'd just like him to stop acting like one.

[George II]

29. In most of these threads bashing Manchin I've asked "who do you suggest replace him?"....

[qazplm135]

39. Why is that relevant

So it's either replace or no criticism? Seems like a false choice to me.

[George II]

48. Because MOST of the comments I've responded to in the last week or so claimed:

"We have to get rid of Manchin", or similar language.

When asked who we should replace him with it's always "I dunno."

But everyone may get their wish when (if) he runs for re-election, Paula Swearingen is running third-party, almost guaranteeing a republican election.

[qazplm135]

52. Then you are pretty narrow

In the posts you look at because plenty aren't talking about replacing him except to vote in more Senators so he becomes irrelevant.

The only reason he matters is because we couldn't win in ME or NC last time around. We win those elections and we'd already have passed both bills right now with or without him.

And quite frankly he's about to replace himself. Progressives in WV may only be a few percentage points of voters but he only won last time by a few percentage points.

[bluewater]

57. Taking a thread off on a tangent is a well know rhetorical device.

It's often used when people feel uncomfortable discussing the contents of the thread's original post.

But of course, you knew that.

[George II]

74. The contents of the thread's original post? You said people should leave Manchin alone. I agree....

I agree with everything you typed in your OP.

[bluewater]

76. "I agree with everything you typed in your OP." Good lord, I hope NOT! lol

And this past month he has saved the country by stopping the passage of expanded social safety net programs that are just too expensive.

You agreed with that? That Manchin saved the country by stopping the passage of President Biden's expanded social safety net programs because they were just too expensive?



Pardon me, well, if that's your actual opinion, thanks for sharing it.

Would you mind if I quote you on that going forward?

Well, honestly, I would in any case, it would be part of the public record here on DU.




I mean, you DID see the emoji, right?

Hoo baby...

Well, thanks for participating in the thread in any case.

[TheRealNorth]

27. As soon as we no longer need him to confirm judges......

Last edited Wed Nov 3, 2021, 11:31 PM - Edit history (1)

kick him to the curb.

[bluewater]

30. Grammar Nazi Time: It's "kick him the the curb."

Auto correct issue?

[TheRealNorth]

88. fixed!

[Brainfodder]

28. Yeah Coal Cing is busy counting his $?

He has enough to fill bathtubs and roll around in it, so I have heard and I saw the yacht.

[48656c6c6f20]

71. Now you've done it

I can clearly hear the sirens of the Joe police coming. You better make a run for it.

[bluewater]

72. lol

[Meowmee]

77. He made himself beholden coal interests a long time ago

He is really an r but not right wing enough now to run as one. It is a sorry state of affairs and it has been for many years. I see no way to correct it. The system is deeply flawed on so many levels.