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Sun Oct 24, 2021, 06:21 AM

How the political world evolved to this point?

This is just my opinion.

In the 1980's, Ronald Reagan told us that the nine most terrifying words in the English language were "I'm from the government - I'm here to help you."

It seems to me that was the time the anti-government forces solidified in this country. It was manifested in the form of the "lower taxes" movement.

It became the mantra for the Republican Party. They were intent on dismantling the "high tax" rates of the New Deal.

Democratic politicians offered little resistance, and in some instances, assisted with the cutting of taxes on the wealthy. For a while, they pretended that 39% was the magic rate for most effectiveness.

The battle between the "haves and have nots" has been going on for most of recorded history. The wealthy and the powerful have never wanted to surrender their wealth or their power. That is a significant reason FDR was so hated by the ruling class.

When the Soviet Union collapsed, it was taken over by a few oligarchs, some of the wealthiest men in the world. Their goal was to open up the world so they could gain more wealth and more power.

In America, the tax rates grew lower and lower. Almost everything was paid for with deficit spending. At last report, more than 50 of the largest and wealthiest corporations in America paid no taxes at all.

What the Democrats failed to understand was that by surrendering the revenues for the maintenance of good government, they were also surrendering our freedom and our democracy. Reportedly, the actual tax rate has shriveled to about 11% for the top echelon of our society.

So the struggle between the rich and the poor has reached a new stage. The wealthy feel emboldened and democracy is threatened all around the world. America is ruled by money moreso than at any time in our history.

The lesson for the people is that the only way to maintain any leverage against complete control by the oligarchs is to have a fair and progressive tax system with a strong enforcement mechanism. We have lost that in America.

Just my opinion.

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Arrow 28 replies Author Time Post
Reply How the political world evolved to this point? (Original post)
kentuck Oct 24 OP
gab13by13 Oct 24 #1
kentuck Oct 24 #3
dlk Oct 24 #11
if..fish..had..wings Oct 24 #2
gab13by13 Oct 24 #4
gab13by13 Oct 24 #5
Shermann Oct 24 #6
kentuck Oct 24 #7
Ohioboy Oct 24 #8
ancianita Oct 24 #14
ancianita Oct 24 #9
Upthevibe Oct 24 #10
gab13by13 Oct 24 #15
bucolic_frolic Oct 24 #12
KS Toronado Oct 24 #13
gab13by13 Oct 24 #16
Septua Oct 24 #17
kentuck Oct 24 #18
CrispyQ Oct 24 #19
Martin Eden Oct 24 #20
Firestorm49 Oct 24 #21
kentuck Oct 24 #23
CrispyQ Oct 24 #22
TreasonousBastard Oct 24 #24
GoodRaisin Oct 24 #25
Poiuyt Oct 24 #26
malaise Oct 24 #27
malaise Oct 24 #28

Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 06:42 AM

1. Good post Kentuck,

The super rich own the MSM. The super rich own politicians. We have working class people voting against their own best interests because they have been brainwashed. When we get Democrats who want to fight for the working class, because the propaganda is so intense we even have Democrats who vote against their own best interests.

Bill Clinton ran as a progressive and governed as a conservative and to some extent Barack Obama did the same although he used up his capital getting Obamacare passed.

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Response to gab13by13 (Reply #1)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 06:47 AM

3. They have finally reached the point where they can control the world.

Or so they believe.

They may be right.

"Trickle down' will come to mean something very different from what we know now.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #3)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 08:31 AM

11. Blackrock, alone, has an estimated value of $9.5 trillion - greater than the GDP of most countries

How can that much concentrated wealth not have a harmful effect on our democracy? And whatever influence they have, its all conducted behind closed doors.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 06:44 AM

2. You are correct

Don't forget the tool of separating the working class:
black vs white
american vs immigrant
men vs women
union vs non-union

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Response to if..fish..had..wings (Reply #2)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 06:59 AM

4. Absolutely,

and now they have more weapons than newspapers, radio, and cable TV, they have social media where they infiltrate and keep people fighting among themselves. Who would have guessed in a million years that vaccines and masks that save lives would become a deadly political football.

Reason, common sense, and critical thinking are disappearing, especially when "they" gain control of education.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 07:07 AM

5. Our small town

always had a big parade on the 4th of July, people came from surrounding towns. I remember back in the 70's, riding in the back of the same car were a Republican Rep. and a Democratic Rep. The goal that Republicans set in stone after Barack Obama became president wasn't just to obstruct everything that Democrats proposed but to demonize Democrats. Once the word Democrat becomes a vile word people don't need reasons why they oppose Democratic proposals.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 07:39 AM

6. This is why "Pay Your Fair Share" is a bust in my opinion

We really need a better slogan. "Pay Your Fair Share" will mostly resonate with the left. "Fair Share" is basically subjective when dealing with a progressive tax system. The right has been indoctrinated to believe they are already paying more than their fair share. Thus, they aren't going to trust a Democratic president to determine what fair means and subsequently increase taxes on the rich.

I propose a new slogan: we must "Fully Fund the Nation". This largely removes the subjective element of it. It is a more difficult mantra to brush off. We can compare taxes today as a percentage of GDP to times in the past when more infrastructure projects were being undertaken.

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Response to Shermann (Reply #6)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 07:41 AM

7. Good point.

"Fair share" is very subjective.

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Response to Shermann (Reply #6)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 08:06 AM

8. Good point

"Fully fund" makes it about everyone, and doesn't accuse some of not being "fair". I like the way you think

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Response to Shermann (Reply #6)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 08:37 AM

14. Fully Fund. Great slogan that only those fearful of "replacement" would fight against.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 08:08 AM

9. The working class has become "emboldened," too. Not just the wealthy. Covid might have "thinned

the herd," but it also got tens of millions of survivors reading and thinking. The last election wasn't a record turnout for no reason.

Thanks for the post.



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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 08:19 AM

10. Kentuck....Absolutely.....

I'd like a take-apart by the media (other than Free Speech T.V.) of so-called trickle-down economics.

THERE IS NO QUESTION that nothing trickled down! All we have to do is look at what the Millionaires and Billionaires are doing with their money (e.g. flying into space) and NOT doing for their employees!

What you're saying, Kentuck, is the absolute truth but it's not "sexy". We MUST change the messaging....

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Response to Upthevibe (Reply #10)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 08:42 AM

15. Look how GQPers

are using propaganda with the "cost" of Build Back Batter" but they gladly voted for 2 trillion plus dollars for tax cuts for the rich.

Propaganda has blinded working folks. The Build Back Better cost, which is paid for is over 10 years, while the tax cuts for the rich was over 2 years and is permanent, it keeps on costing money.

As I said, common sense and critical thinking have disappeared.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 08:33 AM

12. Goldwater Republicans became Fundamentalist Christians and drove guilt and morality

if you didn't kowtow to their latest money and power grab, which became Newt's Contract on America. To me that was the real tipping point. Bill Clinton was a Democratic president in a Republican era, "allowed" to take office if he obeyed and to convince voters the system was not rigged. But is was. Obama was a great president in policy, decorum, popularity and tone. He was weak in realpolitik dealings with the GOP. It's like he was restrained in some way by Mitch. But Obama knew what was going on. He warned in 2016 we could lose our democracy. Can't ignore the zeitgeist by focusing on economics and fiscal concerns.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 08:36 AM

13. Lets go back to Ike's progressive tax rates

and get our national debt under control.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 08:48 AM

16. The Alec Baldwin tragedy

is a tiny example of what Kentuck is talking about. The private sector is down to 6% unionized. Union workers walked off the set to protest, among other things, unsafe working conditions. Would this tragedy have been avoided with union workers on the job? The union workers were replaced with I guess scabs. The decline of unions has mirrored the decline of working class wages.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 08:55 AM

17. Not to disagree with the OP...(opinion)

..but somebody keeps electing Republicans to run the country. And who makes up that electorate? The answer to that question is who voted for Trump in 2016? What were Trump's campaign points? "Build the wall", ban the Muslims and bring back jobs were the top three; at least, those were the three promises most of the rally-attendee-mentality types were hearing.

The pro White ethnostate bunch...the short-sighted, uninformed, selfish who can't accept the world has changed, looking for government leaders who promise they can reverse what can't be reversed.

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Response to Septua (Reply #17)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 08:59 AM

18. Think of Donald Trump as just another oligarch...

...willing to attain power and money by hook or crook, and you have an idea of how the power structure is set up in the world at this time.

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Response to Septua (Reply #17)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 09:48 AM

19. The fact that he got 11 million more votes in 2020 than in 2016

is a depressing statement on our fellow citizens. Trump's approval rating has always been & continues to hover around 40%, which brings to mind this 2018 Fintan O'Toole commentary about Trump & fascism, in the Irish Times:

Fascism does not need a majority – it typically comes to power with about 40 per cent support and then uses control and intimidation to consolidate that power. So it doesn’t matter if most people hate you, as long as your 40 per cent is fanatically committed.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-trial-runs-for-fascism-are-in-full-flow-1.3543375

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 09:51 AM

20. Higher taxes on the rich are widely popular

So, why haven't the Bush and Trump tax cuts on the rich been rescinded?

Answers to that question are complicated, the roots of which go much further back in our history than Ronald Reagan.

Just my opinion, but I think a big part of the problem is deep seated bigotry against immigrants who are different from the current majority. Germans, Irish, Chinese, and anyone of foreign religion or race have been discriminated against -- and the wounds of the tumultuous Civil War have never fully healed.

What does this have to do with tax rates over the last forty years?

The malefactors of great wealth have learned how to manipulate voters by triggering their deep seated bigotry and fears. The "Solid South" was a Democratic bastion until LBJ signed historic Civil Rights legislation. The flip from blue to red wasn't immediate, then Reagan with his Southern strategy and "Make America Great Again" sloganeering (yes, he used that phrase) rallied disgruntled Southerners to the Republican banner along with those gullible enough to fall for the shallow veneer of patriotism and Christian morality. The issue of abortion secured the White evangelical voting block.

All of this has become part of the "conservative" ideology which includes low taxes and antipathy towards our own government, which was the prime objective of the manipulative malefactors all along.

That's why the politics of the right is so heavily focused on culture wars -- that's what fires up their base and keeps them voting against their own best interests.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 10:01 AM

21. Spot on, Kentuck.

Not enough police to deal with crime investigations, crime rising exponentially. Not enough money in city coffers to add resources?

Not enough teachers to educate our young demographic. No money to pay them better?

Roads, bridges, buildings in disrepair due to a lack of money.

This list could go on forever. And, it doesn’t have to if the rich would simply pay their fair share, and not a penny more. Why do we have these problems? Answer -the scam called trickle down economics.

The rich need to be grateful for their wealth. The rich need to respect the low wage workers who make the very products that allow them another Gulfstream. The rich need loyalty the the country that allowed them succeed.

I have no problem with millionaires, billionaires or trillionaires. They built their success. If they cannot find it within themselves to part with their beloved money, then it’s time to enact strong Kennedy tax era laws to build back better again. It’s that simple. You need infrastructure money? You’d have it. You want environmental form? You’d have it. You want more “made in America”? You’d have it if those scum sucking bastards just paid what all of the rest of us have to pay.

It can be done, but it would take balls the size of church bells (thanks, Dabney Coleman) to pry the money out of their grubby little hands.

Getting the rich to pay their fair share would solve countless problems, so why is it so hard to do?

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Response to Firestorm49 (Reply #21)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 10:54 AM

23. Like the shadows lead the sun, corruption follows the massive transfer of wealth.

We have states in this country that hide the money of foreign oligarchs, in what they consider off-shore accounts. The corruption is very deep.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 10:07 AM

22. Publicly funded elections would go a long way to fixing this country.

But how do you get the people who benefit from that flood of money, to turn the spigot off?

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 12:16 PM

24. I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure the Republicans of Hoover's time were generally the wealthy...

while Reagan and Gingrich gave the party to the "just OK".

If I could control things, I would change the rallying cry to something on the order of "PAY YOUR FUCKING BILLS LIKE I HAVE TO!

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 01:25 PM

25. The Plutocracy control almost everything now.

They have the wealth, the courts, the politicians, the airwaves, and they are on their way to seizing complete control of our national elections.

It’s evolved as you say. A few big events along the way, like the SCOTUS Citizens United ruling, like McConnell’s underhanded manipulation of the process for selecting the justices, are some of the final nails in the coffin of American democracy, with the national elections really only being the remaining nail.

Without a win on voting rights it’s pretty much over in my opinion. The irony is that either or both of 2 democratic shills are in position to provide the final blow. And, when/if they do, life in America is going to evolve into misery for many.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 03:45 PM

26. Reagan and Thatcher and their neoliberal policies are responsible for the wealth inequality

around the world, but the incivility between parties was because of Newt Gingrich. At least Reagan could work with Tip O'Neil

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Oct 24, 2021, 03:49 PM

27. It was before that - Chile 1976

was the first live new world order experiment. Now that they've fucked up the planet, they are trying it at home.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

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