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Wed Oct 13, 2021, 10:47 AM

Ok, serious question about anti-vaxxers.

I haven't seen anything specifically about why all these people are refusing to get vaccinated. Besides plain stupidity, is it stubbornness, is it political, is it something else? It's probably a combination of things in different people, but I'm curious.

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Reply Ok, serious question about anti-vaxxers. (Original post)
grumpyduck Oct 13 OP
HUAJIAO Oct 13 #1
Mr.Bill Oct 13 #17
Aristus Oct 13 #21
dchill Oct 13 #2
Freddie Oct 13 #3
Walleye Oct 13 #4
Kota Oct 13 #5
ret5hd Oct 13 #6
jmbar2 Oct 13 #18
ret5hd Oct 13 #24
unblock Oct 13 #7
sop Oct 13 #8
JustAnotherGen Oct 13 #9
sanatanadharma Oct 13 #10
jmbar2 Oct 13 #19
njhoneybadger Oct 13 #11
sop Oct 13 #23
quickesst Oct 13 #12
viva la Oct 13 #13
viva la Oct 13 #15
grumpyduck Oct 13 #16
viva la Oct 13 #26
maxsolomon Oct 13 #14
lame54 Oct 13 #20
Post removed Oct 13 #22
ShazzieB Oct 13 #25

Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 10:52 AM

1. Fox, OAN, hate radio, ignorance, never-to-be-admitted fear of needles,

Russia, unresolved inner violence, fantasy brain, poor education,.. the list goes on and on...

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Response to HUAJIAO (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 12:03 PM

17. The funny thing is,

if you ask any nurse, (I have several in my family, including my wife) and they will all have a story about a patient who is covered with tattoos and has 14 facial piercings but has a fear of needles.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #17)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 12:17 PM

21. Or a Physician Assistant.

I can't count how many needle-skittish patients I've had who were simply covered with tattoos.

I'm also willing to bet that, if many anti-vaxxers are of the "I don't know what's in it" persuasion, they likely also don't know what's in tattoo ink. But they don't let that little detail stop them...

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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 10:53 AM

2. Ill-advised, uneducated bravado.

A side effect of Trumpism is loss of judgement. And unquestionable faith in bleached-blonde blue-eyed Jesus.

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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 10:58 AM

3. Oppositional defiance disorder

Itís a reflex now. If ďour sideĒ wants it they oppose it no matter what. If we say the sky is blue they will say itís green and all of their followers will agree.

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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 10:58 AM

4. It is political. Period

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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 10:58 AM

5. They are convnced by the media they chose to believe, that everything and everybody else is wrong.

Everything is a hoax, TFG instilled the fake news thing into their minds and soles. He discredits anyone who isn't on board with his lies and schemes.

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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 11:06 AM

6. Tribalism. Their tribal leader came out against this vaccine.

The leaders of the opposing tribe "blessed" this vaccine.
It is one of the tribes "tattoos".
It is one of the tribes "piercings".
To get the vaccine would mean denying membership in the tribe.
To get the vaccine would mean betraying the tribe.

They fear that without membership in the tribe, they would be lost...alone...deserted...defenseless.

On edit: and oh yeah...they are "rugged individualists", despite fitting the description above.

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Response to ret5hd (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 12:10 PM

18. IOW, they are sheep

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Response to jmbar2 (Reply #18)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 12:44 PM

24. Yep. Timid, scared sheep. Their favorite mantra,

repeated in their most frightened moments, is ďDonít live in fear!!!Ē

I donít think itís working.

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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 11:07 AM

7. Anti-vax is more complicated than anti-mask. Still stupid, though.

There has always been a small number of people who don't trust vaccines, but they were a tiny minority until a bogus study claimed to link autism with some vaccine preservatives. It was quickly debunked, but the anti-vaxxers latched onto it and got some unfortunate publicity, and that movement grew, though still a small minority.

With the COVID vaccines, add to that that there's some new technology behind it and naturally you get some people who are concerned about anything novel. It was also a rushed approval process. That said, it's been basically tested on like a billion people by now....

Then there are groups such as African-Americans who, based on history, may be understandably distrustful of a government that wants them to get a shot.

Finally, yes, there is the political angle, where republicans have decided to support a freedom to infect, and vaccines interfere with that, so....



The anti-mask thing, by contrast, is pure lunacy. Anyone who has seen medical personnel, real or fictional, in the last 50 years understands that wearing a mask is completely non-controversial, easy, and safe way to reduce the risk of spreading germs.

The only reason to object to masks is pro-COVID politics.


To be clear, get the shot, wear a mask. Try not to catch and spread a potentially lethal disease. Like, duh.

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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 11:07 AM

8. The people pushing anti-vaxxer BS want as many Covid deaths during Bidens's term as possible.

For them it's political. For those willing to swallow their anti-vaxxer crap, it's stupidity.

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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 11:11 AM

9. Politics

Just allowing others to play politics with their lives. Regardless, I view it as an active choice and have zero empathy when they get sick and die. Self-Inflicted wounds.

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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 11:17 AM

10. Straight up self-identity problems

All kinds of ideas, beliefs, weltanschauung become identity markers. For some, reality is easier to dismiss than is seriousl- sick self-identity.

The loudest heard shouts of 'my freedom' are found in the herd beast, fully fenced within false facts and firmly tied to futile selves.

Story;
"Master, there aren't enough ropes to tie the cows to stakes so they do not wander off in the night"
"Simple, grasshopper, pretend to tie them."

Thinking the master must have some magic, grasshopper does so and sleeps through the night.
In the morning the cows, usually in a rush to get to the grassy fields, do not come when grasshopper calls.

"Master, the cows will not leave the corral."
"Grasshopper, they do not come because you forgot to pretend to untie them"

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Response to sanatanadharma (Reply #10)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 12:12 PM

19. great allegory

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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 11:17 AM

11. I think it's a psychological trick.

The tRumpers have become a "Collective" and that's a bad image for rethugs. They want their flock to think they are "rugged individualists" so they have convinced them that being anti-vax is freedom from evil government control.

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Response to njhoneybadger (Reply #11)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 12:40 PM

23. You're on to something here.

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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 11:31 AM

12. I keep hearing the term

.... ignorance. There are a lot of subjects that I am ignorant of simply because I don't have factual knowledge. Anti-vaxxers are well aware of the facts concerning vaccines and masks, but for the sake of "sticking it to the Dems", they will ignore those facts and consciously employ WILLFUL ignorance without remorse, or any sign of guilt for the deception. These are the people who are on a mission and will not be deterred. These are the hopeless deplorables.

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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 11:34 AM

13. A lot of them are oppositional people, to judgetheir social media shown on Herman Cain Awards

They seem to live mostly in the usual social boundaries (have a job, house), but make a point of "breaking the rules" in minor ways, some which end up being major -- like refusing to get health insurance because "Obama" and quitting a church or school because they have some dispute. Often there's alienation with family members-- you know, 'I haven't talked to my sister in years" again often because of some dispute.

I notice that on the RIP posts for some who die, there's often a point made about "he never backed down" and "she always spoke her mind", which seemed to be polite ways of saying, "They were really difficult to deal with."

It's easy to see why Trump-- who opposes just about anything that isn't himself-- would appeal to them. He's like them, only rich. And he gets away with it, beause he's rich. They probably admire that, and want to emulate Trump's defiant gestures and rhetoric.

It's sad. But I bet most of us know people like this, who are just hard to get along with, who always take offense, and seldom make sense.

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Response to viva la (Reply #13)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 11:42 AM

15. Kyrie Irving is a weird example-- being an NBA millionaire

with enormous talent and so on, not a rural motorcycle rider with a scraggly beard.
He's at this point determined to give up millions and a potentially championship season to avoid getting the shot.
He also is (or was) a flat earther, which is one of the STUPIDEST beliefs ever, especially in a guy who -- unlike the scraggly beard types-- has probably traveled over much of the GLOBE in his career.

Interestingly, 'flat earth' turns up fairly regularly in the weird beliefs of antivax loudmouths.

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Response to viva la (Reply #15)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 11:59 AM

16. Really, flat earth?

Hmmm... now that's interesting...

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Response to grumpyduck (Reply #16)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 04:44 PM

26. There's an antivaxxer (now has Covid, I hear) who writes novels about a flat earth

Rob Skiba.

He's kind of famous among that group with the very strange confluence of hatred of the vaccine and disbelief in spheres.

I guess both are anti-science-- and oppositional.

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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 11:39 AM

14. They're susceptible to belief in CTs as a starting point

They believe misinformation and distrust institutions and intellectuals. So they latch on to one of several BS rationales that confirm their biases.

Also politics.

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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 12:17 PM

20. To own the (cough cough) libs

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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)


Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Wed Oct 13, 2021, 12:45 PM

25. Dang, I wanted to reply to the post that is now hidden!

I'm 99.99% sure I know who that troll was and wanted to yank their chain a little bit.

I knew it was going to get hidden but was hoping to have a little fun first. Oh well, maybe next time!

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