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Mon Oct 11, 2021, 04:10 PM

Remember this quote attributed to Karl Rove? We are watching it play out.

"We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors ... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do." [The New York Times Magazine]

2004. Reported to us by Ron Suskind. Rove has denied it, but here's a very interesting article about the matter.

[link:https://theweek.com/articles/854892/what-karl-rove-right-about-realitybased-community|


Excerpt:

But after the complete dud of Wednesday's testimony of Robert Mueller before the House Intelligence and Judiciary committees, I can't help but wonder: Was "Rove" wrong? Or are Democrats just really bad at this?

I suspect it's a little of both, though I'm strongly disposed toward the second option.

What Democrats did on Wednesday was pretty much the opposite of what I proposed in that May column. They didn't "create a public" that favored impeachment of the president. They pointed to a set of facts contained in the Mueller report — facts that have been reported and discussed in the news for more than three months already — and they presented them again, using a reluctant authority figure to back them up, on the assumption that doing so would be sufficient to carry the day. They appear to have hoped or assumed that the country would respond spontaneously with disgust to the self-evident awfulness of the president's behavior.


more at link

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Mon Oct 11, 2021, 04:45 PM

1. It's so utterly baffling how bad democrats are at messaging,

given how extremely biased the media is in favor of republicans and the right wing.

I mean, with the media portraying Hillary as embroiled in one scandal after another non-stop for a quarter-century, you'd think it would have been easy to beat Donnie, who they only repeated everything he said and gave him only 80% of the airtime during the campaign.

And it should be so easy for democrats to get factual points across when the media's preferred format allows anyone to interrupt and shout down each other and generally promotes chaos.

And impeachment, yeah, we only had a president who was basically always below 50% approval, usually way below, with the most consistently high "strong disapproval" numbers of any president in the history of polling. So yeah, democrats should have done more than merely get the public to see Donnie as the worst, most reviled president in history, and running a criminal enterprise from the White House. Because we all know that senate republicans, who had vowed before the trial to vote not to remove Donnie, are oh so responsive to public pressure, especially when it comes from opponents of republicans and their dear leader.



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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Mon Oct 11, 2021, 04:50 PM

2. Am I the only one who remembers the WH and both houses of congress

were controlled by the Republicans during this period? And that most of the big corporate MSM work to keep power in Republican hands, such as the laundering of events through hostile NYT political narratives?

Corrupt, traitorous Republicans, plotting a government takeover, who narrowly designed the scope of the Trump-Russia investigation to keep it from investigating finances and counterintelligence (Trump-Russia!)?

Seriously, the so-called "messaging" problem is more than amply demonstrated here among us.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Mon Oct 11, 2021, 05:46 PM

3. "Nothing you say can change my mind"...

They mean it. Facts and truth be damned, by god, too!

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Mon Oct 11, 2021, 05:50 PM

4. Karl Rove continues to be a monster

N/T

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Response to dlk (Reply #4)

Mon Oct 11, 2021, 05:54 PM

5. KKKarl Rove

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Response to OMGWTF (Reply #5)

Mon Oct 11, 2021, 05:58 PM

6. yeah, he bears responsibility

...and I suspect he is still operating in the shadows.

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Response to OMGWTF (Reply #5)

Mon Oct 11, 2021, 06:38 PM

10. Among other things, yes

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Mon Oct 11, 2021, 06:14 PM

7. Yes and I think about it all the time. It was disgusitng then and it's still disgusting and they are

sort of doing with their cult-like followers and fuck the GOP to hell, really.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Mon Oct 11, 2021, 06:19 PM

8. Yes, I remember 'we create our own reality.'

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Mon Oct 11, 2021, 06:20 PM

9. Yep, a prime example of a person who values power...

... more than truth.

I've met them in all walks of life -- e.g., an amateur genealogist who told me that my original documents which disproved his family tree claims wouldn't matter, because he was still going to publish a book which stated otherwise... saying that the book would be more influential than the documents from the 1600's.

Their values are bizarre, at least to someone like me.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Mon Oct 11, 2021, 06:50 PM

11. Rove is also the one who laid out the Republican plan to take over permanent power.

In 2010, the WSJ published an interview with Rove in which he described his REDMAP. It was an open plan to win every election possible, from local school board members to state legislatures and governors. They were especially focused on the states that could reliably give them the Electoral College. They pumped dark money into races in states to win where they could then gerrymander to enhance Republican districts based on the 2010 census, and they were successful. They were open about what they were doing, but Democratic leaders essentially ignored their strategy. I believe Democrats were a bit too smug in believing that Obama’s election signaled a new era for Democrats. And it did for awhile.

Republicans used sophisticated computer mapping software and hardware supported by millions of dollars in dark money to achieve their wins, which they arguably also did in 2016 with Facebook’s targeting of likely voters and the Mercers with Cambridge Analytica. And Hillary’s campaign staff was telling her that she didn’t even need to visit Michigan during the campaign, which she lost.

Republicans also have most of the media and right-wing hate radio helping them, but Democrats need to get more strategic to win, especially at the state level. Messaging is really important, and Democrats tend to need help in this area. My fear is that it’s too late, and we will see a complete takeover of the federal government by Republicans in 2024 with Trump as president. We barely survived four years of him—we won’t survive as a recognizable world power or a decent country to live in if he becomes president again.

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Response to Lonestarblue (Reply #11)

Mon Oct 11, 2021, 07:10 PM

14. hmmm I wonder if that WSJ article can be found.

I'll try, but I'm not a subscriber.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #14)

Mon Oct 11, 2021, 07:50 PM

15. Here's a Salon article that gives a good description of the Republican plan.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Mon Oct 11, 2021, 06:52 PM

12. Dems are definitely bad at this which makes us good people but not so great

politicians.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Mon Oct 11, 2021, 07:03 PM

13. This reality or more accurately, their lies about reality

Is what every petty tyrant does to confuse and manipulate citizens in order to take control.

Don't buy the lies. He, the GOPers and the rich capitalists are just doing what every scum sucking dicktater does to gain full control of the wealth of a country while conniving the people.

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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #13)

Mon Oct 11, 2021, 08:23 PM

16. yes and it dovetails with Bannon's method: Flood the zone with shit. nt


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