Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:31 PM

Why isn't assisted suicide legal for the elderly...

…if Governors can recommend animal dewormer to the general public of his state for a virus treatment?

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61 replies	Author	Time	Post
Why isn't assisted suicide legal for the elderly... (Original post)	Under The Radar	Aug 2021	OP
Excellent question!	MLAA	Aug 2021	#1
Religion	HAB911	Aug 2021	#2
And health care, I'd imagine. There's a lot of cash in prolonging life.	Auggie	Aug 2021	#15
OH YEAH	HAB911	Aug 2021	#22
I've always understood it to be a god thing. God doesn't like what is considered	RKP5637	Aug 2021	#3
I'll keep searching...	multigraincracker	Aug 2021	#6
In Washington state it is legal under certain conditions - here's a link ...	RKP5637	Aug 2021	#11
Oregon is another. Maybe more too.	yonder	Aug 2021	#19
I'm lucky.	multigraincracker	Aug 2021	#20
It also potentially ripe for abuse when you're talking about people w/ diminished mental capacity.	meadowlander	Aug 2021	#32
Yes, these are all excellent points!!! n/t	RKP5637	Aug 2021	#41
I don't understand life-proling care for someone with advanced alzheimers	Buckeyeblue	Aug 2021	#59
Great response	multigraincracker	Aug 2021	#4
Found it. It's call	multigraincracker	Aug 2021	#7
How is Hospice assisted suicide?	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2021	#12
Failure to provide medical treatment.	multigraincracker	Aug 2021	#14
I am sure there are treatments to keep me alive for a couple of years...	Under The Radar	Aug 2021	#27
I've worked with Hospice patients and they get plenty of medical treatment.	Crunchy Frog	Aug 2021	#28
I only look for loop holes in the Scriptures.	multigraincracker	Aug 2021	#31
My GF is a RN	multigraincracker	Aug 2021	#33
Hospice isn't really the same thing.	meadowlander	Aug 2021	#34
I won't say where I got this information.	Mr.Bill	Aug 2021	#44
I don't doubt it, and im glad they do given it's best to kick the door shut rather than needlessly	onetexan	Aug 2021	#48
Yes it does. Thankfully.	nancy1942	Aug 2021	#57
My dad died on home hospice care last April.	Mariana	Aug 2021	#58
There are very strict rules about inventorying certain drugs.	Mr.Bill	Aug 2021	#61
Right or wrong ..it's very difficult for family, even when elderly	PortTack	Aug 2021	#5
It is all about quality of life. Stand in my shoes	Under The Radar	Aug 2021	#18
Wife's dead, no kids	Revanchist	Aug 2021	#21
Thats why it's important to discuss these things well in advance with your family	onetexan	Aug 2021	#49
I believe that two states have legalized this for anyone with a terminal illness.	CaliforniaPeggy	Aug 2021	#8
In Japan &other countries its legal to die w dignity	onetexan	Aug 2021	#50
Probably because it could be abused	drray23	Aug 2021	#9
there is a bit of that for sure	HAB911	Aug 2021	#23
Healthcare expenses force me to go into debt to stay alive	Under The Radar	Aug 2021	#24
In a few states, Death with Dignity is indeed allowed.	RobertDevereaux	Aug 2021	#10
The rundown...	RobertDevereaux	Aug 2021	#13
Thanks for the list, my dear RobertDevereaux!	CaliforniaPeggy	Aug 2021	#16
How is terminally ill defined in that statute?	Under The Radar	Aug 2021	#25
Details for Colorado are here.	RobertDevereaux	Aug 2021	#30
New Zealand legalised it by referendum last year	meadowlander	Aug 2021	#38
Requirements are onerous and time consuming. It has been my experience with three terminally ill	hlthe2b	Aug 2021	#29
We have euthanasia for our beloved pets and it is considered humane	Doc Sportello	Aug 2021	#17
I've always said	multigraincracker	Aug 2021	#35
And when I'm dead, throw me in a dumpster..Burials/cremation cost too much!	LeftInTX	Aug 2021	#37
Bury me in a burlap sack and plant a tree on top.	A HERETIC I AM	Aug 2021	#42
Same here.	multigraincracker	Aug 2021	#46
Because euthansia for animals isn't always, "putting them out of suffering"	LeftInTX	Aug 2021	#39
Not to the point but thanks anyway n/t	Doc Sportello	Aug 2021	#56
I'm planning to punch my own ticket when the time comes	True Dough	Aug 2021	#26
Laughing gas would be my choice.	multigraincracker	Aug 2021	#36
I think with electric cars, that form of dying will go away.	jimfields33	Aug 2021	#43
Eventually	True Dough	Aug 2021	#45
True. I hope you die peacefully in your sleep at a very acceptable age that you decide.	jimfields33	Aug 2021	#52
Thank you, Jim	True Dough	Aug 2021	#54
Also barbecues and gas stoves/ovens.	meadowlander	Aug 2021	#53
Valid point, meadowlander	True Dough	Aug 2021	#55
Because this country is full of puritanical hypocrites	A HERETIC I AM	Aug 2021	#40
Crazy that legal euthanasia could come before free of charge health care.	David__77	Aug 2021	#47
We need assisted suicide in all 50 states as it's unlikely we'll ever	area51	Aug 2021	#60
My sils mother lived with her for a little while then told her she was tired	blueinredohio	Aug 2021	#51

Response to Under The Radar (Original post)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:33 PM

MLAA (11,813 posts)

1. Excellent question!

Reply to this post

Response to Under The Radar (Original post)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:35 PM

HAB911 (7,754 posts)

2. Religion

must be the basis, no rational argument exists.

Reply to this post

Response to HAB911 (Reply #2)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:49 PM

Auggie (28,892 posts)

15. And health care, I'd imagine. There's a lot of cash in prolonging life.

Reply to this post

Response to Auggie (Reply #15)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:53 PM

HAB911 (7,754 posts)

22. OH YEAH

big business in dragging it out at ALL COST

Reply to this post

Response to Under The Radar (Original post)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:37 PM

RKP5637 (63,544 posts)

3. I've always understood it to be a god thing. God doesn't like what is considered

to be suicide or some damn nonsense. And this has tainted laws. Also, there has always been a concern about framing someone to die.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #3)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:39 PM

multigraincracker (28,037 posts)

6. I'll keep searching...

There is always a loop hole.

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Response to multigraincracker (Reply #6)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:43 PM

RKP5637 (63,544 posts)

11. In Washington state it is legal under certain conditions - here's a link ...

https://www.doh.wa.gov/youandyourfamily/illnessanddisease/deathwithdignityact

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #11)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:52 PM

yonder (7,815 posts)

19. Oregon is another. Maybe more too.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #11)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:52 PM

multigraincracker (28,037 posts)

20. I'm lucky.

All I have to do is place a magnet on my pacemaker when I go to bed. I think it works that way, but need to do more research.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #3)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:17 PM

meadowlander (3,726 posts)

32. It also potentially ripe for abuse when you're talking about people w/ diminished mental capacity.

I support doctor-assisted suicide but I can see how it's a really difficult call to make where, for example, someone has Alzheimers and is sometimes lucid and often not. When you throw in inheritances and relatives who may simply be exhausted and at the breaking point while the patient still wants to live but doesn't want to be a burden, it becomes a really difficult and potentially shady call to make.

You can also have people with severe depression who are suicidal in a moment but could potentially with treatment decide later that they wanted to live.

I don't think it should be a blanket allowance and the conditions need to be carefully defined. Even then it's really difficult to regulate because the key factor is the state of mind of the one person who potentially won't be around later to clarify.

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Response to meadowlander (Reply #32)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:33 PM

RKP5637 (63,544 posts)

41. Yes, these are all excellent points!!! n/t

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Response to meadowlander (Reply #32)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 09:31 PM

Buckeyeblue (4,575 posts)

59. I don't understand life-proling care for someone with advanced alzheimers

That seems cruel to me.

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Response to Under The Radar (Original post)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:38 PM

multigraincracker (28,037 posts)

4. Great response

for those that broach the subject.
Thanks.

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Response to multigraincracker (Reply #4)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:41 PM

multigraincracker (28,037 posts)

7. Found it. It's call

Hospice.

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Response to multigraincracker (Reply #7)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:45 PM

Crunchy Frog (26,155 posts)

12. How is Hospice assisted suicide?

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #12)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:49 PM

multigraincracker (28,037 posts)

14. Failure to provide medical treatment.

Could have kept them alive another 6 months. But, no just let em die.

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Response to multigraincracker (Reply #14)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:05 PM

Under The Radar (3,364 posts)

27. I am sure there are treatments to keep me alive for a couple of years...

…if I would sell all of the assets that I sent a lifetime obtaining so that I could afford those treatments…that leaves my family except the debt of my burial. Plus the two years are spent in sickness and pain.

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Response to multigraincracker (Reply #14)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:05 PM

Crunchy Frog (26,155 posts)

28. I've worked with Hospice patients and they get plenty of medical treatment.

It's just that the focus is on keeping them as comfortable as possible rather than aggressive and futile attempts to force their bodies to keep going, even with no possibility for meaningful survival.

I've seen Hospice patients get treated for UTIs and dental issues, and anything else that affects their comfort and quality of life. I've seen them get as much supplemental O2 as it's possible to give them without invasive procedures such as intubation.

And they are the ones calling the shots, as long as they have the ability, and always have the option to leave Hospice and go back to more aggressive treatment.

If you want to live in an alternative reality where that's the same thing as killing someone you're free to. It still doesn't change things for people who actually want to die before their disease runs its full course, which is what this thread is about.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #28)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:17 PM

multigraincracker (28,037 posts)

31. I only look for loop holes in the Scriptures.

I don’t judge them. I am an Atheist, but try to be a nice one. I put humans before Gods.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #28)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:20 PM

multigraincracker (28,037 posts)

33. My GF is a RN

and has worked many years for Hospice. When the doctor suggested Hospice for her mother, she took 5 years off work to give her a wonderful 5 years more.

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Response to multigraincracker (Reply #7)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:25 PM

meadowlander (3,726 posts)

34. Hospice isn't really the same thing.

Hospice is when you've reached the point of diminishing returns with treatment or where there are no longer any available treatments and the focus shifts to palliative care (keeping the person comfortable or at least out of physical pain) rather than trying to solve the problems or just sustain life without quality of life.

My dad was in hospice for nine days before he passed away. He said his goodbyes in the first three and the last six were just an excruciating waiting game for everyone involved. I'm sure if he had the option, he would have preferred to just get a shot while the family was there to hold his hand and then just have it over in an hour or two. That's doctor assisted suicide.

It's the slow waiting around after the decision has already been made which I think can be cruel and unnecessary for everyone involved.

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Response to meadowlander (Reply #34)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:42 PM

Mr.Bill (17,483 posts)

44. I won't say where I got this information.

Hospice Nurses won't actively euthanize patients, but they will leave the family with the tools to do it themselves. And reverse instructions, such as don't give here more than two of these pills every three hours, or you may risk stopping the heart.

It happens, and it's been happening for years.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #44)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 05:00 PM

onetexan (10,689 posts)

48. I don't doubt it, and im glad they do given it's best to kick the door shut rather than needlessly

Prolonging a dying person's suffering. My views of euthanasia, or as i would rather call it - personal choice ending - is dying with dignity.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #44)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 08:43 PM

nancy1942 (606 posts)

57. Yes it does. Thankfully.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #44)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 09:26 PM

Mariana (14,036 posts)

58. My dad died on home hospice care last April.

Afterward, when the nurse came, one of her duties was to see to his remaining drugs. She measured that morphine very carefully and wrote down how much was still in the bottle, before she disposed of it. My mother noticed her doing that too and asked me about it. I told her "I think she was trying to make sure we didn't euthanize him."

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Response to Mariana (Reply #58)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 11:47 PM

Mr.Bill (17,483 posts)

61. There are very strict rules about inventorying certain drugs.

At the shift change at the nursing station in a hospital, the drug cart rolls out and everything is counted and signed off by the charge nurse of each shift. Lots of documentation everywhere the druga are stored or used.

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Response to Under The Radar (Original post)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:39 PM

PortTack (26,518 posts)

5. Right or wrong ..it's very difficult for family, even when elderly

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Response to PortTack (Reply #5)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:52 PM

Under The Radar (3,364 posts)

18. It is all about quality of life. Stand in my shoes

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Response to PortTack (Reply #5)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:53 PM

Revanchist (1,367 posts)

21. Wife's dead, no kids

Once my parents pass there will be no one to care if I decide to commit suicide

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Response to PortTack (Reply #5)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 05:02 PM

onetexan (10,689 posts)

49. Thats why it's important to discuss these things well in advance with your family

And have legal instruments - will, living revocable trust, power of attorney -prepared so that when comes time everyone is clear what needs to be done.

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Response to Under The Radar (Original post)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:43 PM

CaliforniaPeggy (142,730 posts)

8. I believe that two states have legalized this for anyone with a terminal illness.

Oregon did it first and now California.

There were a lot of protests in both places. It's incomprehensible to me. People were saying that the person could be pushed into taking the medication against their will, and there are safeguards in the law to prevent that.

And there were other arguments against.

I just don't get it.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Reply #8)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 05:04 PM

onetexan (10,689 posts)

50. In Japan &other countries its legal to die w dignity

The conservative right has & continues to impose their unfounded beliefs on the rest of us.

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Response to Under The Radar (Original post)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:43 PM

drray23 (6,752 posts)

9. Probably because it could be abused

Coax Grandma to suicide so you can inherit..

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Response to drray23 (Reply #9)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:55 PM

HAB911 (7,754 posts)

23. there is a bit of that for sure

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Response to drray23 (Reply #9)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:57 PM

Under The Radar (3,364 posts)

24. Healthcare expenses force me to go into debt to stay alive

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Response to Under The Radar (Original post)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:43 PM

RobertDevereaux (1,661 posts)

10. In a few states, Death with Dignity is indeed allowed.

Colorado became one of them about two years ago. Oregon is another, I believe. There may be more.

There are rules around it to safeguard against abuse, which makes sense.

Let's hope more states come on board.

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Response to RobertDevereaux (Reply #10)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:45 PM

RobertDevereaux (1,661 posts)

13. The rundown...

"Death with dignity laws allow qualified terminally-ill adults to voluntarily request and receive a prescription medication to hasten their death. As of April 2021, aid in dying statutes have been passed in: California, Colorado, District of Columbia, Hawaii, Maine, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, Vermont, and Washington."

https://deathwithdignity.org/learn/access/

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Response to RobertDevereaux (Reply #13)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:51 PM

CaliforniaPeggy (142,730 posts)

16. Thanks for the list, my dear RobertDevereaux!

I hadn't realized that there were so many. That's great.

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Response to RobertDevereaux (Reply #13)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:58 PM

Under The Radar (3,364 posts)

25. How is terminally ill defined in that statute?

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Response to Under The Radar (Reply #25)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:12 PM

RobertDevereaux (1,661 posts)

30. Details for Colorado are here.

https://deathwithdignity.org/states/colorado/

I think we used some of what Oregon had already devised.

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Response to RobertDevereaux (Reply #13)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:30 PM

meadowlander (3,726 posts)

38. New Zealand legalised it by referendum last year

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide

"to qualify for legal assistance, individuals who seek a physician-assisted suicide must meet certain criteria, including: having a terminal illness, proving they are of sound mind, voluntarily and repeatedly expressing their wish to die, and taking the specified, lethal dose by their own hand."

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Response to RobertDevereaux (Reply #10)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:10 PM

hlthe2b (92,614 posts)

29. Requirements are onerous and time consuming. It has been my experience with three terminally ill

Last edited Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:46 PM - Edit history (1)

in Colorado that by the time they qualified and had all the paperwork/examinations in order, they were too ill to take the oral medication, unable to keep it down (a typically nausea-inducing combination), or died on their own hours before attempting.

To my knowledge, no state has adopted a "Dr. Kevorkian"-type act that would allow injectable forms/doses of medication to be administered. (Obviously high doses of morphine and other drugs that are administered for interminable pain in the hospice setting can and frequently does end life, but intentional overdosing would be subject to consequences-- a gray zone--with implications)

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Response to Under The Radar (Original post)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:51 PM

Doc Sportello (6,304 posts)

17. We have euthanasia for our beloved pets and it is considered humane

Which it is. But "God forbid" we do the same for humans who are suffering.

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Response to Doc Sportello (Reply #17)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:25 PM

multigraincracker (28,037 posts)

35. I've always said

When I get old and sick, take me to the vet.

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Response to multigraincracker (Reply #35)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:28 PM

LeftInTX (19,684 posts)

37. And when I'm dead, throw me in a dumpster..Burials/cremation cost too much!

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #37)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:34 PM

A HERETIC I AM (22,969 posts)

42. Bury me in a burlap sack and plant a tree on top.

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #37)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:57 PM

multigraincracker (28,037 posts)

46. Same here.

Reply to this post

Response to Doc Sportello (Reply #17)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:30 PM

LeftInTX (19,684 posts)

39. Because euthansia for animals isn't always, "putting them out of suffering"

It is perfectly legal to shoot feral hogs and kill rats

It is also legal to put dangerous dogs and cats to sleep.

Reply to this post

Response to LeftInTX (Reply #39)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 06:28 PM

Doc Sportello (6,304 posts)

56. Not to the point but thanks anyway n/t

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Response to Under The Radar (Original post)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:01 PM

True Dough (14,005 posts)

26. I'm planning to punch my own ticket when the time comes

Barring that I wind up fully incapacitated in short order, I would elect to go with carbon monoxide poisoning. Ain't waiting for permission from no "authority."

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Response to True Dough (Reply #26)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:26 PM

multigraincracker (28,037 posts)

36. Laughing gas would be my choice.

But, that’s just me.

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Response to True Dough (Reply #26)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:38 PM

jimfields33 (10,541 posts)

43. I think with electric cars, that form of dying will go away.

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #43)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:52 PM

True Dough (14,005 posts)

45. Eventually

But there are going to be old, used gasoline-based cars available for a long time to come.

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Response to True Dough (Reply #45)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 05:44 PM

jimfields33 (10,541 posts)

52. True. I hope you die peacefully in your sleep at a very acceptable age that you decide.

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #52)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 05:52 PM

True Dough (14,005 posts)

54. Thank you, Jim

Me too. And you too. But I'm prepared for whatever.

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Response to True Dough (Reply #45)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 05:46 PM

meadowlander (3,726 posts)

53. Also barbecues and gas stoves/ovens.

It's not like internal combustion engines are the only common household source of carbon monoxide.

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Response to meadowlander (Reply #53)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 06:00 PM

True Dough (14,005 posts)

55. Valid point, meadowlander

Plenty of options, really.

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Response to Under The Radar (Original post)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:32 PM

A HERETIC I AM (22,969 posts)

40. Because this country is full of puritanical hypocrites

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Response to Under The Radar (Original post)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 05:00 PM

David__77 (21,151 posts)

47. Crazy that legal euthanasia could come before free of charge health care.

…

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Response to David__77 (Reply #47)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 11:43 PM

area51 (10,284 posts)

60. We need assisted suicide in all 50 states as it's unlikely we'll ever

get healthcare as a basic human right.

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Response to Under The Radar (Original post)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 05:16 PM

blueinredohio (6,264 posts)

51. My sils mother lived with her for a little while then told her she was tired

of taking medicine and not being able to do anything so she was going to stop taking her medicine. Sil called her doctor and discussed it, the doc said then let her stop taking her medicine. She didn't live much longer.

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