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Mon Aug 16, 2021, 08:11 AM

Afghanistan pull out was always going to be a disaster

It had to be done. Kudos to Biden for having the guts to do it. The “timing” was never going to be right. Better to do it early in his administration and be done with it.

China has built massive infrastructure by avoiding stupid wars. We need to to do the same and rebuild America.

I stand by Biden.

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Arrow 27 replies Author Time Post
Reply Afghanistan pull out was always going to be a disaster (Original post)
MaryMagdaline Aug 2021 OP
katmondoo Aug 2021 #1
JohnSJ Aug 2021 #2
DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2021 #5
JohnSJ Aug 2021 #8
MaryMagdaline Aug 2021 #10
JohnSJ Aug 2021 #16
Treefrog Aug 2021 #14
Devil Child Aug 2021 #3
greenjar_01 Aug 2021 #6
Devil Child Aug 2021 #9
dsp3000 Aug 2021 #12
Hoyt Aug 2021 #20
Devil Child Aug 2021 #21
Klaralven Aug 2021 #4
Devil Child Aug 2021 #7
Klaralven Aug 2021 #11
Devil Child Aug 2021 #13
Klaralven Aug 2021 #18
Devil Child Aug 2021 #19
MaryMagdaline Aug 2021 #24
bdamomma Aug 2021 #15
JohnSJ Aug 2021 #17
hamsterjill Aug 2021 #23
captain queeg Aug 2021 #22
ripcord Aug 2021 #25
MaryMagdaline Aug 2021 #26
Wingus Dingus Aug 2021 #27

Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 08:16 AM

1. I stand with Biden

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 08:18 AM

2. The disaster was the evacuation, not the pull out. The evacuation should have been done first

before the withdrawal

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Response to JohnSJ (Reply #2)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 08:33 AM

5. That certainly makes sense on its face and I have thought about it a lot.

But the moment we started evacuating our embassy panic would have ensued.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #5)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 08:40 AM

8. Then it wasn't planed properly. Rachel Maddow had been warning about the inaction in getting

our allies and people out before our withdrawal weeks before.

If the evacuation wasn't a mistake we would not be sending troops back in their to try and safeguard the evacuation.


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Response to JohnSJ (Reply #2)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 08:44 AM

10. Once the locals sensed withdrawal, the panic would set in.

Chaos was inevitable. Rachel Maddow and the others are dreaming. The only conceivable way this was going to go smoothly would be if the local Afghanis were themselves capable of protecting the rear. They obviously have no will to fight the Taliban, in which case, there never was a chance of a smooth withdrawal.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Reply #10)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:01 AM

16. Just the fact that we had to send troops back in should tell you it was a blunder.

When you have people from the administration saying we had no idea the Taliban would move so quickly, that is a very bad assessment of the situation

Before the Taliban even started their advance, the evacuations should have begin



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Response to JohnSJ (Reply #2)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 08:55 AM

14. This.

Exactly.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 08:20 AM

3. This failure of operational planning can't be waved away so simply

 

Biden was correct in withdrawal, but the implementation of the withdrawal is a total failure.

Pentagon heads need to roll.

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Response to Devil Child (Reply #3)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 08:37 AM

6. In the NY Time article you can just hear the blame from DoD and State, each at the other

DoD insisting that they described this scenario to clueless State people, State going with a damned if you do, damned if you don't argument in which evacuating the embassy first would have led to immediate collapse of the Afghan Army rather than the reverse.

What a shit show.

The people here pretending that this isn't on the current admin are truly living in a fantasy world as vivid as the rosy scenarios of Afghan Army strength.

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Response to greenjar_01 (Reply #6)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 08:43 AM

9. A shit show becoming a shit storm

 

This disaster is producing very interesting attempts at rationalization and coping with what’s happening.

Appreciate your posts greenjar_01.

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Response to greenjar_01 (Reply #6)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 08:47 AM

12. 100%. Thats what alot of people on this board dont get

It didnt have to be this disastrous. This is worse than vietnam

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Response to Devil Child (Reply #3)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:18 AM

20. That pretty much sums it up. It would have been better if withdrawal had been announced,

with caution that Taliban or others might try to take advantage of troop drawdown and, if that occurred, the timeline would be adjusted and/or additional troops would called to stop fighting and defend Afghan citizens.

People chasing planes to escape is not a good optic.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #20)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:25 AM

21. Hoyt, i can't describe the weird sinking feeling inside

 

Watching our cargo planes pushing through the crowd on take off. Seeing twitter reports of corpses that supposedly fell from the sky splattered on rooftops in the flightpath.

Horrible optics in a profound historical moment.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 08:31 AM

4. Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_withdrawal_from_Afghanistan

Of course, they had the advantage of being able to properly stage a withdrawal through the northern land border.

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Response to Klaralven (Reply #4)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 08:38 AM

7. Never should have abandoned Bagram AB

 

Until the very last plane left.

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Response to Devil Child (Reply #7)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 08:45 AM

11. I agree, but we should never put the Army where the Marines can't evacuate them to ships.

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Response to Klaralven (Reply #11)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 08:50 AM

13. Also agree. Infrastructure for a massive air-bridge effort was clearly lacking

 

We’ve come up with a couple logical ideas, time to apply for pentagon jobs?

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Response to Devil Child (Reply #13)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:08 AM

18. The problem is how do you "retract" an air bridge?

You can "extend" an air bridge by dropping paratroops to seize an airport. This works because you can choose a weakly defended airport and have the advantage of surprise. The defenders have the disadvantage of having to defend all the airports, while the attackers can concentrate forces on one.

However, once you have completed your operation, how do you evacuate the last personnel given that they are under attack? In this case the enemy can mass his forces against your last forces on the ground.

In the case of evacuating a beach, you can use naval bombardment and naval air power to cover the last units off the beach. They can't be totally protected, but the Navy can do a better job.

Afghanistan, being landlocked, was never going to end well.

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Response to Klaralven (Reply #18)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:16 AM

19. That's why I was so flabbergasted by the abandonment of Bagram

 

It seemed the only fortress like airbase in the country capable of filling the needs for a massive airlift.

Getting the last deployed detachment out? That’s above my pay grade but I envision overlapping supporting elements being able to cover the last flight. I just play war games made of cardboard and plastic.

Thanks for your reply and food for thought Klaralven.

Edited to add: after some thought, the only other feasible “retract” for the air bridge would’ve been an armed convoy exiting towards a friendly border. One of the other ‘Stans like the Soviets did. But again these are massive undertakings.

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Response to Klaralven (Reply #18)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:32 AM

24. Thank you for this input

Strategically, this was always going to be extremely difficult.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 08:56 AM

15. I stand with Biden

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Response to bdamomma (Reply #15)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:02 AM

17. Of course we stand with Biden, that isn't the issue

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Response to bdamomma (Reply #15)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:30 AM

23. I stand with the United States of America, damn it!

Joe is the very best at foreign policy. I give him that and I await his full and complete explanation of his thinking on this issue. So far, silence.

But we are still the United States of America. Fuck Donald Trump. Fuck Greg Abbott. Fuck the Republicans. They don’t understand honor.

But Dems need to get control of this situation and start messaging it properly. The USA must come back from the Trump fiasco. Biden has even remarked about this in prior speeches. And the USA deals in honor. In giving its word. And we need to get those interpreters and other allies OUT. Or else we are going to look like assholes to the rest of the world.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:27 AM

22. Yep. Maybe the US should stop trying to control the world.

All these international corporations that the US is always supporting rely on our military and then pay no taxes. Fuck em.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:34 AM

25. Wait until the dead bodies start hitting the news

This has all the makings to be a disaster and the media is going to flood us with graphic images. Should any of those images be of Afghans who worked with the U.S. the pundits will draw their knives.

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Response to ripcord (Reply #25)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:56 AM

26. Yes they will. The very reason our past presidents continued to throw good money after bad.

We will pay a huge price in blood and honor. And politics. Every President was warned about this. There were no good plans.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Aug 16, 2021, 10:18 AM

27. Get 'em out, bring 'em home.

Sorry we can't feel good about it, but that's the breaks.

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