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Nevilledog

(50,660 posts)
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 01:09 PM Jul 2021

Judge Questioned If Capitol Rioters Are Getting Off Too Easy For "Terrorizing Members Of Congress"




https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/zoetillman/capitol-riot-jan-6-defendants-plea-deals-too-lenient


WASHINGTON — A federal judge on Thursday pushed back on the government’s decision to ink deals in the Capitol riot cases that involve low-level misdemeanors, questioning whether that was appropriate for people involved in “terrorizing members of Congress.”

The unusual exchange came during a plea hearing for Jack Jesse Griffith, who was charged solely with misdemeanor crimes for going into the Capitol on Jan. 6; he wasn’t accused of violence or property destruction. As Griffith prepared to plead guilty to one count of parading, demonstrating, or picketing in a Capitol building — a class B misdemeanor with a maximum sentence of six months in jail — US District Chief Judge Beryl Howell asked the prosecutor to explain why Griffith’s deal involved a class of crime typically reserved for people who did things like trespass in a national park at night.

“I'm just curious — does the government have any concern given the factual predicate at issue here, of the defendant joining a mob, breaking into the Capitol building through a broken door, wandering through the Capitol building and stopping a constitutionally mandated duty of the Congress and terrorizing members of Congress, the vice president, who had to be evacuated?” Howell asked. “Does the government, in agreeing to the petty offense in this case, have any concern about deterrence?”

It was the second time this week that a judge questioned whether defendants charged in connection with Jan. 6 are getting off too lightly in plea deals, even if they’re not accused of more serious criminal activity, such as attacking police. On Tuesday, US District Judge Reggie Walton, one of Howell’s colleagues on the federal bench in Washington, DC, briefly pondered whether he should jail two defendants who signed a deal similar to Griffith’s, given their involvement in the “atrocious act” of storming the Capitol; he ultimately allowed them to go home until they’re sentenced in October.

*snip*

84 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Judge Questioned If Capitol Rioters Are Getting Off Too Easy For "Terrorizing Members Of Congress" (Original Post) Nevilledog Jul 2021 OP
About Damn Time WHITT Jul 2021 #1
+1,000! SheltieLover Jul 2021 #5
+ another 1000 SallyHemmings Jul 2021 #17
+ another 1000 lagomorph777 Jul 2021 #30
+ yet another 1000 usaf-vet Jul 2021 #34
Count me in -... pazzyanne Jul 2021 #36
Ditto! Raster Jul 2021 #39
And another +1000! calimary Jul 2021 #46
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! happy feet Jul 2021 #56
About time! Rebl2 Jul 2021 #57
Yep. nt Roisin Ni Fiachra Aug 2021 #84
This is bullshit, judge knows it, and it doesn't surprise me that it is happening. Thomas Hurt Jul 2021 #2
You took the words out of my fingertips Ferrets are Cool Jul 2021 #45
Hey Ferrets, I Love That Phrase!!! COL Mustard Jul 2021 #75
... Ferrets are Cool Jul 2021 #78
Yes. Yes they are. 2naSalit Jul 2021 #3
Thankfully the judiciary is stepping up bottomofthehill Jul 2021 #4
Yes they did! SheltieLover Jul 2021 #8
"Coddling only serves to embolden." Prof. Toru Tanaka Jul 2021 #10
Indeed it is! SheltieLover Jul 2021 #58
The Republicans and Faux Noise have made it clear Fortinbras Armstrong Jul 2021 #71
Well, you know... SheltieLover Aug 2021 #81
Coddle them now and we might wnylib Jul 2021 #49
For sure! SheltieLover Jul 2021 #59
Yep! (n/t) OldBaldy1701E Jul 2021 #68
As well as DENVERPOPS Aug 2021 #80
+1 Prof. Toru Tanaka Jul 2021 #13
You would think there would be a statute concerning disrupting the government in real time Ligyron Jul 2021 #19
In MY Opinion fwvinson Aug 2021 #79
Of course they are and it about fucking time someonew noticed Fullduplexxx Jul 2021 #6
No shit. dalton99a Jul 2021 #7
+1 live love laugh Jul 2021 #66
True. "The law" is doing a rotten job of providing Baitball Blogger Jul 2021 #9
Just sayin', Guillotines seemed to be a deterrent C_U_L8R Jul 2021 #11
I stand with the Judges, who use common sense MagickMuffin Jul 2021 #12
Well, FINALLY DFW Jul 2021 #14
Spot on. yonder Jul 2021 #32
Ding, ding. We have a winna!! Ferrets are Cool Jul 2021 #47
Sums it up for me. Who should we bomb? twodogsbarking Jul 2021 #54
Nah...Yer Wrong There.... COL Mustard Jul 2021 #76
This Ferrets are Cool Jul 2021 #77
They Faux pas Jul 2021 #15
No shit world wide wally Jul 2021 #16
It's only through almost sheer luck that members of congress weren't taken hostage ffr Jul 2021 #18
The insurrectionists are taking advantage of hiding in numbers Silent3 Jul 2021 #20
Felony conviction usually screws up a person's life for a while. jaxexpat Jul 2021 #21
Yeah, they are... they need the Cha Jul 2021 #22
+ 1 nt pazzyanne Jul 2021 #37
The insurrection should be dealt with fairly harshly bucolic_frolic Jul 2021 #23
LOL. I'm sure milquetoast Garland will change this stat! LOL. PSPS Jul 2021 #24
Most of them were doing cosplay and adding to the numbers Warpy Jul 2021 #25
Treat it like a bank robbery Aviation Pro Jul 2021 #26
Just slapping their wrists is total bullshit BlueJac Jul 2021 #27
Are there not people in prison have done nothing but plan terrorist attacks? rickyhall Jul 2021 #28
Are the federal prosecutors saving the felony charges for the ones causing actual bodily harm Texin Jul 2021 #29
Smack the bastards into a nice deep hole orangecrush Jul 2021 #31
Yes...The probability that they will do it again... toughtony Jul 2021 #33
TFG signed an executive order a year ago to protect monuments, memorials and statues Danascot Jul 2021 #35
I like that judge. And yes, we are letting these first ones off cheap. They need a minimum of marble falls Jul 2021 #38
Thank you Judge Howell malaise Jul 2021 #40
Of course! And wattabout the jerks who incited (and probably paid) these terrorists? Justice matters. Jul 2021 #41
Excellent points NQAS Jul 2021 #42
cliven and amon bundy Jakes Progress Jul 2021 #43
Also ask, if they were Black would they be getting these easy sentences? CrispyQ Jul 2021 #44
Let the punishment fit the crime. BarbD Jul 2021 #48
The judge's question feels affirmative as to my own perception as regards what appears to be a msfiddlestix Jul 2021 #50
If it was up to me, many may disagree, there would not be any need for a trial in many cases. olegramps Jul 2021 #51
They should all be in Gitmo until hell freezes over randr Jul 2021 #52
Yes. catrose Jul 2021 #53
I'm okay with the little fish dealing for a lighter sentence IF it leads directly to the conviction Poiuyt Jul 2021 #55
Lighter means 2 years or more RainCaster Jul 2021 #64
Yes, way too little...no repercussions, no change, sets stage to happen again. MiHale Jul 2021 #60
Nail their traitorous hides for all to see Pas-de-Calais Jul 2021 #61
When the Plea deal"...do they accept FELONY charges? Hulk Jul 2021 #62
Good BradAllison Jul 2021 #63
Deterrence starts at the top. LudwigPastorius Jul 2021 #65
NBC's Scott McFarlane was on NPR's 1A this morning. summer_in_TX Jul 2021 #67
If the shoe were somehow on the other foot PCIntern Jul 2021 #69
well... ShepKat Jul 2021 #70
so far llashram Jul 2021 #72
I like what these judges had to say, BUT Progressive Jones Jul 2021 #73
The plea deal must be honored. malthaussen Aug 2021 #83
The DOJ has been too easy on these terrorists LetMyPeopleVote Jul 2021 #74
Oh, that is a good question, yeronner! malthaussen Aug 2021 #82

WHITT

(2,868 posts)
1. About Damn Time
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 01:17 PM
Jul 2021

“I'm just curious — does the government have any concern given the factual predicate at issue here, of the defendant joining a mob, breaking into the Capitol building through a broken door, wandering through the Capitol building and stopping a constitutionally mandated duty of the Congress and terrorizing members of Congress, the vice president, who had to be evacuated?” Howell asked. “Does the government, in agreeing to the petty offense in this case, have any concern about deterrence?”


You go your honor!

bottomofthehill

(8,261 posts)
4. Thankfully the judiciary is stepping up
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 01:21 PM
Jul 2021

These fucking people attacked the US Capitol and Democracy itself. They belong in jail for a long time

Prof. Toru Tanaka

(1,921 posts)
10. "Coddling only serves to embolden."
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 01:32 PM
Jul 2021

Spot-on and I agree 100%.

Funny how Mr. "Law and Order" who "loves the police" isn't calling for strict punishment, isn't it? (sarcasm)

Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)
71. The Republicans and Faux Noise have made it clear
Fri Jul 30, 2021, 10:32 AM
Jul 2021

From what they said about the testimony of the Capitol Policemen that their supposed support for the police is a lie. But then, they support Trump, who is famous for lying about anything and everything. Thus, they have no problem with lying. Of course, any ideology which is based on lying is bogus.

DENVERPOPS

(8,677 posts)
80. As well as
Sun Aug 1, 2021, 11:00 PM
Aug 2021

setting the bar for lower penalties for the worst ones............

I don't think there are "degrees" of insurrection and sedition.........

We have coddled Trumphumpers and Republicans, and it is more than obvious where THAT ended.............

Prof. Toru Tanaka

(1,921 posts)
13. +1
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 01:36 PM
Jul 2021

Judge Walton is right, this isn't trespassing in a national park. This is the building where our elected legislators do business that affects our nation and the world. Like the Pentagon, it needs to be secure and protected.

These people breached that security and threatened our legislators and lives were lost. They committed serious federal crimes and should be treated as such.

Ligyron

(7,592 posts)
19. You would think there would be a statute concerning disrupting the government in real time
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 01:43 PM
Jul 2021

Especially a process as sacred as the one which was interrupted.

 

fwvinson

(488 posts)
79. In MY Opinion
Sun Aug 1, 2021, 06:38 PM
Aug 2021

The ones inside the Capitol Building should get 25+yrs
The ones outside the Capitol Building should get 10+ yrs
The ones inside the Capitol that disturbed, stole, damaged, or threated with violence should get life
The ones that planned and instigated the insurrection should get hung by the neck till dead.

C_U_L8R

(44,891 posts)
11. Just sayin', Guillotines seemed to be a deterrent
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 01:35 PM
Jul 2021

Gallows too. What is the appropriate penalty for this treason?

DFW

(54,050 posts)
14. Well, FINALLY
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 01:38 PM
Jul 2021

A felony doesn't become a misdemeanor just because five thousand crazed Republicans committed one. If three people had broken windows at the Capitol and roared in, assaulting police, carrying potential weapons, barging into offices and the chambers of the House and the Senate, calling for the murder of the Vice-President and the House Speaker, what would have been the charges against them? OK, so it's a far lesser offense because they were numerous? I don't know of any law that dilutes the severity of an offense just because the number of perps is above average.

Ferrets are Cool

(21,059 posts)
47. Ding, ding. We have a winna!!
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 03:34 PM
Jul 2021

If it had been 10 men of middle eastern descent, they would already be in Gitmo...indefinitely

Faux pas

(14,582 posts)
15. They
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 01:40 PM
Jul 2021

are getting off too easily! I'm pretty sure this will fuel the "faithful" into doing it more because of that.

ffr

(22,644 posts)
18. It's only through almost sheer luck that members of congress weren't taken hostage
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 01:42 PM
Jul 2021

or Pence, for that matter, wasn't captured, race over to the gallows they'd set up and hanged.

Oh how things could have gone so differently. The punishments should be exceedingly harsh, if it were me.

Silent3

(15,018 posts)
20. The insurrectionists are taking advantage of hiding in numbers
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 01:43 PM
Jul 2021

More serious charges without plea deals take up a lot of court time. I'd love to see these terrorists slammed down, and slammed down hard, but without plea deals these cases would probably still be working their way through the court system ten years from now.

The best we'll probably be able to manage is randomly going whole hog on a few of them and making examples out of those few.

jaxexpat

(6,701 posts)
21. Felony conviction usually screws up a person's life for a while.
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 01:45 PM
Jul 2021

THAT should be the minimum standard. These Yahoo's lives need to be screwed up for a long time. House arrest, 20 days, deferred for time served does not suit the offense.

bucolic_frolic

(42,662 posts)
23. The insurrection should be dealt with fairly harshly
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 01:49 PM
Jul 2021

as an example. This leniency means they don't want to be a harsh government, which might create more resentment and outrage, but it's also not something to brush off lightly. I would want to know what they would incur if they did the same in their hometown, or state capitol, neighborhood, or big box store. I suspect a lot of the lesser crimes would get a few months.

Warpy

(110,900 posts)
25. Most of them were doing cosplay and adding to the numbers
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 01:52 PM
Jul 2021

and facing charges and paying fines and court costs will do nicely for them. They're the most likely to dimly realize they've done something really, really stupid.

The violent ones, the fanatics, and the organizers need to face prison. Brooks, Biggs and Gosar need their phone records gone over with a fine toothed virtual comb since they've been named as Congressional co conspirators

Above all, law enforcement in general needs a strong attitude adjustment. Democracies have been overthrown but only by the far right. There are no historical exceptions in this. They need to stop chasing lefties who want higher wages and fewer billionaires and start chasing right wing extremists who want to use violence to install a dictator.

Let's hope Congress pursues that line of investigation, why there was overwhelming anti riot preparedness for peaceful BLM protests and next to nothing for a mostly white, eight wing mob.

rickyhall

(4,889 posts)
28. Are there not people in prison have done nothing but plan terrorist attacks?
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 01:58 PM
Jul 2021

It's like if they ain't aren't non-white or have long hair they can't possibly be terrorists.

Texin

(2,585 posts)
29. Are the federal prosecutors saving the felony charges for the ones causing actual bodily harm
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 02:03 PM
Jul 2021

and those that organized the insurrection? Just wondering. A lot of these people, while part of the collected mob, seemed to have been following along and were not the ones assaulting Capitol police and causing actual property damage.

toughtony

(88 posts)
33. Yes...The probability that they will do it again...
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 02:12 PM
Jul 2021

They look like a bunch of wild animals....giving them light sentences conveys a sense of support and a sense of weakness on the part of the courts. Maybe they knew they would get no time.

What makes me sad is that, I always believed that as you get older, you get wiser. You don't figure an older person would be stupid enough to fall for such political bulls..t. I was wrong, a lot of these people have grandkids, they're old and they should have known better. They should have known better than to put their personal lives at risk over what they had to know was trump's same ol bulls...t! They had to know, at their age, that trump felt this was all for him, not America, not for patriotism, not for courage, but for him, and only him. And while he failed to make that call, a woman died. A woman who probably wouldn't have died had there been more enforcement. Trump started lying within minutes after everything was over, saying in a speech on national TV that he "immediately" called the national guard. He just lied right in our faces as if we're all fools. We know what happened, we saw it.

Danascot

(4,663 posts)
35. TFG signed an executive order a year ago to protect monuments, memorials and statues
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 02:20 PM
Jul 2021

The order calls on the attorney general to prosecute to the fullest extent of the law any person or group that destroys or vandalizes a monument, memorial or statue. I believe the Capitol Building can be considered a monument. Federal law authorizes a penalty of up to 10 years in prison for the “willful injury” of federal property. The order calls for maximum prosecution for anyone who incites violence and illegal activity.

Sounds good to me.



marble falls

(56,358 posts)
38. I like that judge. And yes, we are letting these first ones off cheap. They need a minimum of
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 02:36 PM
Jul 2021

... one year federal time.

Justice matters.

(6,873 posts)
41. Of course! And wattabout the jerks who incited (and probably paid) these terrorists?
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 02:54 PM
Jul 2021
Why are the hitmen-women's inciters and financiers walking out scott-free???

NQAS

(10,749 posts)
42. Excellent points
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 03:05 PM
Jul 2021

Maybe it's a case of the government bringing charges they know that they can prove.

I don't think there are any specific domestic terrorism statutes, and I'm guessing that prosecutors don't think they can prove insurrection, at least not against the majority of those arrested.

So, maybe, no more plea deals. You plead guilty, you go to jail for the maximum allowed. You plead not guilt and are convicted, you go to jail for the maximum.

And. . . it's time to bring charges for insurrection and related crimes. Though even there the maximum prison sentence is 10 years. Maybe time to change those laws pretty darn quick, hey?

Jakes Progress

(11,121 posts)
43. cliven and amon bundy
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 03:16 PM
Jul 2021

Never charged for the level of their crimes. So they keep doing what they got away with.

In my old neighborhood, we had a rash of midnight car break-ins. Windows broken, stuff stolen, gas siphoned. Dozens of them reported to police. No one was arrested. No one was ever charged or brought in even though there were door cameras of the guys doing it. It went on and on for months.

Enough of the neighborhood complained to the district's councilman (just before the election) and the police began patrolling and stopping people. Some arrests were made. Some people went to jail.

Bad guys will keep doing what they want as long as they don't fear being caught.

We are telling the mega bigots not to worry. 8 months for destroying federal property and assaulting police. 9 months for selling a joint. We are telling them not to sweat it.

They will do it again and again.

CrispyQ

(36,224 posts)
44. Also ask, if they were Black would they be getting these easy sentences?
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 03:20 PM
Jul 2021

NO.

Also, "...breaking into the Capitol building through a broken door..." There were 8 breaches to the Capitol Building. These people are getting off easy.

BarbD

(1,190 posts)
48. Let the punishment fit the crime.
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 03:40 PM
Jul 2021

The crime was insurrection and an attempted coup -- an overthrow of the government.

They should be tried for treason.

msfiddlestix

(7,264 posts)
50. The judge's question feels affirmative as to my own perception as regards what appears to be a
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 03:52 PM
Jul 2021

rather light prosecution handling of these dangerous treasonous terrorists.

The source of great angst in my mind as to future coup attempts.



olegramps

(8,200 posts)
51. If it was up to me, many may disagree, there would not be any need for a trial in many cases.
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 04:00 PM
Jul 2021

I believe that the officers were being assaulted and the breach of the Capitol by a mob of Trump inspired trash in addition to the fact that elected representatives were in grave danger was justification for use of deadly force. Of course the Republicans would have condemned this, but they believe it just fine for officers to take deadly action against minorities who are not even armed. The hypocrisy of to day's Republican racists makes me want to vomit. The Republicans should have been attending funerals in stead of rallies celebrating their treason and kissing Trump's ass. I can not stand the sight of any Republican and have no desire to have any of them as my friend. It is tantamount to kissing Judas and celebrating Benedict Arnold's betrayal. I have, with full justification, grown to actually despise the bastards.

randr

(12,408 posts)
52. They should all be in Gitmo until hell freezes over
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 04:00 PM
Jul 2021

No mercy must be shown to traitorous terrorists.

Poiuyt

(18,087 posts)
55. I'm okay with the little fish dealing for a lighter sentence IF it leads directly to the conviction
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 04:31 PM
Jul 2021

of the people behind the insurrection. I'm talking about Trump and certain members of Congress.

BradAllison

(1,879 posts)
63. Good
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 08:43 PM
Jul 2021

I wonder if some DU posters will be along to say the judge doesn't know what's going on and to pipe down.

LudwigPastorius

(8,943 posts)
65. Deterrence starts at the top.
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 11:09 PM
Jul 2021

Jail Trump. Cut off his constant stream of treacherous lies and you cut off the lifeline to the MAGAt insurrectionists.

summer_in_TX

(2,680 posts)
67. NBC's Scott McFarlane was on NPR's 1A this morning.
Fri Jul 30, 2021, 12:21 AM
Jul 2021

He covers the arrests, charges, and court cases of the insurrectionists for the network.

One thing he said stuck out in this morning's discussion of where the House's investigation into the insurrection goes from here. These judges don't hesitate to talk about Trump's role and that he still poses a threat to the nation.

They know who the responsible party is.

PCIntern

(25,342 posts)
69. If the shoe were somehow on the other foot
Fri Jul 30, 2021, 07:32 AM
Jul 2021

The right wingers would be clamoring for the death penalty for the entire mob. The only question would be hanging or firing squad.

Progressive Jones

(6,011 posts)
73. I like what these judges had to say, BUT
Fri Jul 30, 2021, 10:56 AM
Jul 2021

why aren't the judges handing out maximum sentences? I'm aware that there are sentencing guidelines, but are those guidelines something that judges are required by law, not policy, to follow?

Also, I'm seeing some really weak sentencing recommendations from prosecutors. Again, I bring up maximum sentences. Pleading guilty, and/or "cooperating" should not lower the consequences for The Terror Trash.

Finally, I'm extremely disappointed we won't see any life sentences or executions. Just my opinion.

malthaussen

(17,065 posts)
83. The plea deal must be honored.
Mon Aug 2, 2021, 08:41 AM
Aug 2021

When the prosecution makes a deal with the defendant, the Judge is bound to honor it. It would defeat the whole purpose of plea bargaining to do otherwise.

-- Mal

malthaussen

(17,065 posts)
82. Oh, that is a good question, yeronner!
Mon Aug 2, 2021, 08:31 AM
Aug 2021

And then there's the larger question: "Does the Government have any intention of prosecuting those who incited the insurrection?"

-- Mal

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