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Wed Jul 21, 2021, 02:39 PM

China's got some explaining to do.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.14.21260491v1

In summary,

Cancer Hospital in Milan restests blood samples from October 2019 and finds possible COVID-19 antibodies.

The first "Official" COVID-19 case in EU was 2/20.

FWIW, Milan is a direct hub from the Wuhan Province because a great number of the employees at the textile plants and fashion houses are Chinese nationals.

Questions keep stacking up.

Apparently China tried to keep this secret for 2 months. The origin is unclear.

A 2-Month head start would have saved millions. Don't forget, the virus was sequenced quickly... months later.

This ain't over. The books and movies are going to be epic.

Note: personal thoughts... I think the US Gov't and Trump must have known about this prior to January 2020. The IC literally knows everything everywhere at any time.

I think Trump so treasured trade relations with China that he ignored intel reports and "believed/trusted" Xi.



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Arrow 43 replies Author Time Post
Reply China's got some explaining to do. (Original post)
WarGamer Jul 21 OP
The Magistrate Jul 21 #1
WarGamer Jul 21 #4
The Magistrate Jul 21 #13
lagomorph777 Jul 21 #2
WarGamer Jul 21 #3
lagomorph777 Jul 21 #6
WarGamer Jul 21 #10
lagomorph777 Jul 21 #18
WarGamer Jul 21 #21
lagomorph777 Jul 21 #24
roamer65 Jul 21 #35
lagomorph777 Jul 21 #36
Sympthsical Jul 21 #27
Jacoby365 Jul 21 #5
WarGamer Jul 21 #7
roamer65 Jul 21 #8
WarGamer Jul 21 #11
roamer65 Jul 21 #12
WarGamer Jul 21 #16
roamer65 Jul 21 #17
lagomorph777 Jul 21 #20
WarGamer Jul 21 #23
roamer65 Jul 21 #26
WarGamer Jul 21 #29
Johonny Jul 21 #9
lagomorph777 Jul 21 #25
Sympthsical Jul 21 #28
roamer65 Jul 21 #41
Sympthsical Jul 21 #42
roamer65 Jul 21 #43
Scrivener7 Jul 21 #14
WarGamer Jul 21 #19
Scrivener7 Jul 21 #22
ProfessorGAC Jul 21 #15
roamer65 Jul 21 #30
WarGamer Jul 21 #31
roamer65 Jul 21 #32
roamer65 Jul 21 #34
Mariana Jul 21 #33
lapucelle Jul 21 #39
Devil Child Jul 21 #37
stillcool Jul 21 #38
luckone Jul 21 #40

Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 02:43 PM

1. Assumes Knowledge Not In Evidence, Sir

The doctors in Milan did not notice anything in October.

Why should it be assumed the Chinese noticed at that time anything out of the ordinary variance of respiratory ailments?

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 02:46 PM

4. Agreed. But sure is worthy of deep investigation... you agree?

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 02:53 PM

13. The Origin Is Worth Thorough Investigation, Sir

This particular factoid does not seem of much importance. There have been reports evidence of the virus has cropped up 'too soon' in blood samples in several places outside China, and again, no one noticed at the time anything strange.

That the Chinese engaged in some covering up can safely be assumed, and you may be sure it was an internal cover-up as well as an external one. Local authorities would have striven to conceal a problem from the central authorities. This goes far back in Chinese bureaucratic culture. If you were in local authority under the Son of Heaven, and there were, say, bandits rising in your district, reporting this was quite dangerous. It was, in fact, a confession of moral failure on your part --- if you were a man of benevolence, there could be no disorder in your district.

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 02:44 PM

2. Even if all that is true, you won't get Trump off the hook for genocide.

Knowing what we know now, (or, frankly, what we knew then), if Biden had been President in late 2019/early 2020, hundreds of thousands of Americans would still be alive. The blood is on Trump's hands and he must pay dearly.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 02:45 PM

3. Who says I'm trying to get Trump off the hook for anything?

Strange comment.

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #3)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 02:47 PM

6. That's generally what posts like this look like.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #6)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 02:50 PM

10. Why?

The story is about China bearing responsibility, especially if they lied or hid evidence and continue to do so...

This is NOT an American story. It's a Global story and dozens of countries are also asking China questions.

I believe that the WHO and the Trump administration bought the Chinese cover story with nary a question.

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 02:58 PM

18. China may have some responsibility. Trump has vastly more responsibility.

Attempts to emphasize and blame the Chinese appear to me, as attempts to distract from the bigger culprit, who actually caused most of the millions of deaths.

Starting from the point where we saw what was happening, we could have stopped this thing almost dead in its tracks, here, and (by example) around the world, long enough to make and deliver vaccines. Our government, for decades a leader in such matters, fell flat on its face because of the deliberate actions by Trump to make the pandemic as bad as possible.

All of that could have been done, regardless of any possible Chinese coverup.

It's probably not a coincidence that Trump laid a lot of the groundwork for a pandemic "from China," well in advance. He is the one who pulled our monitors from the Wuhan lab. That is not a coincidence. He is the one who shut down the White House pandemic response team. That is not a coincidence. Trump planned and executed a strategy of genocide by pandemic. Frankly, it's possible he had our departing Wuhan team plant something on the way out the door.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #18)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 03:00 PM

21. Off topic but I'm curious.

Who do you blame for the 1M+ deaths in Europe?

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #21)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 03:02 PM

24. Not off-topic at all. Trump contributed to deaths around the world.

It's not a black or white answer, obviously. But you knew that.

By demonstrating poor public health policy, which other wannabe dictators modeled, Trump exacerbated the pandemic everywhere.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #24)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 03:33 PM

35. The axis of true evil.

Dump-Bolsonaro-Modi.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #35)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 03:34 PM

36. Yup.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #6)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 03:04 PM

27. Only in your eyes

Trying to understand the truth of how a virus that has killed millions originally started is not absolving Trump of any of his incompetence and malevolent negligence.

You've tried this tack every single time Lab Leak theory is brought up.

We're supposed to be about The Truth.

Even the Biden administration is taking this seriously.

Why are you so investing in trying to debunk it?

No one is trying to absolve Trump here. At least, not on this board. I want to know why millions died - millions Trump had nothing to do with. I want us to know the truth, so it never happens again if it can be helped.

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 02:46 PM

5. So, it's possible the virus originated in Italy?

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Response to Jacoby365 (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 02:48 PM

7. In the piece, Doctors specifically say no. But you knew that, right?

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Response to Jacoby365 (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 02:50 PM

8. Within the realm of possibility.

Who knows where it made the zoonotic transfer.

We will never know exactly.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 02:51 PM

11. I believe we'll make a conclusion with 99% certainty.

It'll just take time and research. And hopefully cooperation from China.

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #11)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 02:52 PM

12. I doubt it.

It will remain a mystery just like the 1918 flu virus, IMO.

Even if it came from China, what would we do about it?

Start WW3?

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #12)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 02:55 PM

16. Sometimes the evidence is pretty clear.

If you get home from work and your couch is torn to shreds and your puppy German Shepherd has an upset tummy and throws up foam and fabric... you can make a strong assumption.

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #16)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 02:58 PM

17. Are you vaccinated?

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #17)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 02:59 PM

20. Good question!

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #17)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 03:01 PM

23. oh hell yes...

With the America PATRIOT vaccine, Moderna... made right around the corner from Boston.

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #23)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 03:04 PM

26. "Patriot" vaccine?

Freedom fries, too?



At least ur vaccinated, so ur not part of the problem.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #26)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 03:06 PM

29. it's a tie-in to an earlier post I made

Saying that the vaccines should have been marketed to the public in a more patriotic manner...

And because Moderna is the only Made/Developed in the USA C19 vaccine.

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 02:50 PM

9. I believe US intelligence has said they knew in late November something was going on in China

Clearly the Chinese people knew by late December so US intelligence knew by then without a doubt. Trump was likely briefed well before January, but he's an idiot.

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Response to Johonny (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 03:03 PM

25. There were cases in my county (near an international airport on the East coast) in October/November.

We had no idea what they were, but they were suddenly killing people (including young people) with a mysterious "flu."

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Response to Johonny (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 03:06 PM

28. The lab was suddenly evacuated at one point

And all electronic surveillance went silent.

They still have no explanation for it. But it may be a clue that something went on there.

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Response to Sympthsical (Reply #28)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 11:33 PM

41. Now that's interesting if true.

Iíd love to know more about that if so.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #41)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 11:44 PM

42. Here's a link

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/report-says-cellphone-data-suggests-october-shutdown-wuhan-lab-experts-n1202716

I should've couched my terms. It *may* have been. They're still sifting. But that news report was two and a half months ago, and the Biden administration has been coming out more firmly about the possibility of a lab leak.

So maybe they've learned something about this since then.

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Response to Sympthsical (Reply #42)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 11:52 PM

43. Thx for the link.

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 02:54 PM

14. Covid was in Italy in SEPTEMBER, and we have known that for a long time. Here's an article:

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27W1J2

That's dated November 2020.

Why does China have explaining to do? Why not Italy?

What have you found that says it didn't originate in Italy, where it existed as early as September, rather than China?

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 02:58 PM

19. Wow you're parroting CCP propaganda.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1209646.shtml

I'll trust the Scientists.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-italy-china-idUKKBN27Z2QQ




The Chinese government said on Tuesday it believed the study showed that tracing the origin of the virus was an ongoing process that may involve many countries.

But the Italian researchers said thatís not necessarily their conclusion.

ďThese findings simply document that the epidemic in China was not detected in time,Ē Giovanni Apolone, scientific director of National Cancer Institute (INT) and a co-author of the study, told a news conference in Milan.

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #19)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 03:01 PM

22. Lol. I'm "parroting" the Italian cancer study. But nice try.

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 02:55 PM

15. Not A Game Changer

They had explaining to do, anyway.
Their, now obvious, to suppress the severity of the outbreak there delayed preemptive measures elsewhere and didn't get public attention on the seriousness earlier.
They've got blood on their hands, despite this finding.

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 03:09 PM

30. 🦠🦠🦠🦠

Who cares where I came from? I certainly donít.



Iím here and loving my new homes. BFF.




-Delta

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #30)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 03:13 PM

31. and cousin Lambda just showed up in town...

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #31)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 03:14 PM

32. I invited it.

Canít party alone. Takes two to tango...Er....recombinate.

-delta

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #30)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 03:30 PM

34. 🦠🦠🦠🦠

I even have a sense of humor.

What happens when you recombinate me with a norovirus?


-Delta

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 03:15 PM

33. They found "possible Covid-19 antibodies"?

Have they found any definite Covid-19 antibodies?

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Response to Mariana (Reply #33)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 03:50 PM

39. The paper has not yet been peer reviewed.

The bolding is theirs:

About medRxiv
medRxiv (pronounced "med-archive" ) is a free online archive and distribution server for complete but unpublished manuscripts (preprints) in the medical, clinical, and related health sciences. Preprints are preliminary reports of work that have not been certified by peer review. They should not be relied on to guide clinical practice or health-related behavior and should not be reported in news media as established information.


*****************************************************************************************

The authors caution readers about the limitations of the study and explicitly state that the evidence and findings do not allow them to either confirm or deny the hypothesis "that SARS-CoV-2 was growing under the surface for some time before the first diagnosed case in Wuhan".

From the Discussion section:

As pointed out in the recent WHO report (www.who.int) and in other commentaries, studies from different countries suggest that SARS-CoV-2 was growing under the surface for some time before the first diagnosed case in Wuhan.

Suggestive evidence from our previous published study and conflicting results from the current retesting exercise, despite adding important signals in this direction, do not allow us to accept or discard this hypothesis. Indeed findings of these studies are only partially confirmed due to the heterogeneity of methods utilized and the risk of non-specific signals in serological assays.

Despite that, the report underlines the importance of investigating these potential early events, to solve the still unanswered questions about the origin and timing of the current pandemic and may contribute to a better understanding of the future virus circulation dynamics.

You can read the full text of the paper here.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.14.21260491v1.full

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 03:34 PM

37. Thank you WarGamer

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Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 03:37 PM

38. "a 2-month head start would have saved millions"

not in this country. I still believe in science, and scientists. Don't much care where the virus it originated, but I do care that it is stopped. Rand Paul attacking Dr. Faucci seems to be all the rage among some, and that is insignificant chatter used to misdirect. Seeing as how the Republicans are all of a sudden on board with vaccines, they'll be back blaming China, the CDC, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton...anyone, but themselves. It's who they are, it's what they do. The horse is never too dead for them to flog away.

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Response to stillcool (Reply #38)

Wed Jul 21, 2021, 04:35 PM

40. + This. Thank you

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