Thu Jun 24, 2021, 02:02 PM

genxlib (5,236 posts)

UPDATE May I have a word about the Surfside Building Collapse

Last edited Thu Jun 24, 2021, 10:17 PM - Edit history (1)

*UPDATE*
Edited to add

I am getting deployed after all. I will be onsite in the morning. I had my doubts that my team would get called up for a number of reasons but we are getting mobilized.

I may or may not have time to check in but will let you know what I can when I can.

Wish me luck.

I am seeing speculation all over the place about what happened.

Please, just let it be for now. This is a time to let the professionals go to work. The immediate goal is rescue of the living and recovery of the dead. There will come a time for cause and blame later. For now, let's stick with mourning the dead and hope that more survivors can be found.

One of the reasons that this is bugging the shit out of me is that this is kind of my wheelhouse and even I don't have an opinion yet about what went wrong.

For context, I am a Structural Engineer trained to be a Structural Specialist on FEMA Search and Rescue teams. I have been doing it for over 25 years and have been to disasters like 9/11, Katrina and Haiti. I have spent countless hours training for evaluation of exactly these kinds of issues. At least two of my compatriots (and probably others) are on site as we speak. You may have seen me talk about it before in posts like this one https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028880342#post27 where I fight technical issues with all kinds of misguided opinions.

Aside from all that, I have lived and practiced engineering in South Florida for over 30 years. One of my biggest current projects is right down the street from this disaster. I am familiar with the geology, construction, codes and conditions of this area.

So I say with no small amount of confidence that I am better positioned to have an opinion about this than anyone. And I HAVE NO IDEA what happened yet. It may take weeks or months to figure it out.

So give it a rest. Express grief for the victims and hope for the missing. But please refrain from trying to guess what went wrong.

138 replies	Author	Time	Post
UPDATE May I have a word about the Surfside Building Collapse (Original post)	genxlib	Jun 2021	OP
Great. Please post what your thought are as information comes out	treestar	Jun 2021	#1
I might get some preliminary feedback later today from my associates currently at the site	genxlib	Jun 2021	#7
Well, stay away from FB and Twitter.	Warpy	Jun 2021	#97
Thank you for the job you do....	2Gingersnaps	Jun 2021	#126
✔️	blm	Jun 2021	#2
Excuse my skepticism that Florida officials will be forthcoming and honest about what happened	Gregory Peccary	Jun 2021	#3
Ty for the work you do	SheltieLover	Jun 2021	#4
I saw the mayor insist it should not be called Surfside. She used a different name- started with a C	vanlassie	Jun 2021	#5
Not sure what that is about	genxlib	Jun 2021	#33
Here:	vanlassie	Jun 2021	#44
Champlain Towers, in Surfside, FL.	secondwind	Jun 2021	#53
OK	genxlib	Jun 2021	#55
Yea I think she thought it was helpful for people to have the exact location.	vanlassie	Jun 2021	#81
She probably wanted to avoid tarnishing the name of the entire town.	NH Ethylene	Jun 2021	#128
she was trying to stop calls from relatives of every condo owner in the entire town	dsc	Jun 2021	#76
Telling people not to speculate is an impossible order.	Wingus Dingus	Jun 2021	#6
You are probably right	genxlib	Jun 2021	#9
Yeah. I think because it's so terrifying that this can happen in our country	Wingus Dingus	Jun 2021	#12
agreed	Demovictory9	Jun 2021	#10
Is this information accurate?	Ptah	Jun 2021	#8
It has been reported that it was literally under inspection when this occurred...	hlthe2b	Jun 2021	#11
A clarification	genxlib	Jun 2021	#20
I work in a warehouse in North Miami Beach and we just had our 40 year inspection.	iscooterliberally	Jun 2021	#67
That is a misinterpretation	Random Boomer	Jun 2021	#93
Your point has already been made by a much earlier poster. However, it does not take into account	hlthe2b	Jun 2021	#94
I would take that with a grain of salt	genxlib	Jun 2021	#102
I don't really have any additional information on that	genxlib	Jun 2021	#17
Thanks for your perspective, genxlib.	Ptah	Jun 2021	#24
I look at it sort of like a plane crash.	Marrah_Goodman	Jun 2021	#87
No one should have been	gldstwmn	Jun 2021	#68
Video of the condo building in Surfside collapsing:	sop	Jun 2021	#13
I was emailed that video this morning	genxlib	Jun 2021	#47
Great info!	zuul	Jun 2021	#49
Thanks for your thoughts.	sop	Jun 2021	#65
Or during construction	flotsam	Jun 2021	#123
Whoa - that happened so quick	Ruby the Liberal	Jun 2021	#99
You're right. Such speculation should be left to internet message boards. nt	LexVegas	Jun 2021	#14
this	llashram	Jun 2021	#15
I still think it was Aliens.	Calista241	Jun 2021	#16
too soon	Bucky	Jun 2021	#19
Or is lt..	denbot	Jun 2021	#36
Not some malfunctioning space lasers?	mwooldri	Jun 2021	#57
Even an expert on alien technology would agree	DBoon	Jun 2021	#66
Jewish space lazer	grantcart	Jun 2021	#136
Thank you- I appreciate your experience and sensibility.	NBachers	Jun 2021	#18
'Once A Failure Occurs, Gravity Takes Over And Increases Load': Engineer Paul Danforth Gives Insight	Demovictory9	Jun 2021	#21
This is a perfect example of the media engaging in the same exercise	genxlib	Jun 2021	#30
been in construction all my life & agree with you 100% !! thank you !!	monkeyman1	Jun 2021	#22
Just making the observation that approximately 30% of US adults think aliens stole the election.	yardwork	Jun 2021	#23
Thank You !!! K & R	Stuart G	Jun 2021	#25
Thank you for your input, genxlib. It's helpful and timely.	Hekate	Jun 2021	#26
We all know the 9/11 Truthers will be promoting thermite--was there a gold depository nearby? 🤡	TheBlackAdder	Jun 2021	#27
You joke	genxlib	Jun 2021	#32
DU is a place to discuss things, especially things that are being	Politicub	Jun 2021	#28
Much as last week's tragedy at the Pride Parade....	Thunderbeast	Jun 2021	#29
Thank you for this.	StarfishSaver	Jun 2021	#31
And right after a mass shooting is no time to discuss guns.	applegrove	Jun 2021	#34
I disagree with the equivalency	genxlib	Jun 2021	#37
They knew the building in Surfside was sinking in 1990.	applegrove	Jun 2021	#45
"They" who?	Random Boomer	Jun 2021	#95
Civil engineers. Saw it on the DU but I can't remember where.	applegrove	Jun 2021	#96
In this thread:	applegrove	Jun 2021	#98
It is our nature to speculate	left-of-center2012	Jun 2021	#35
It's not a coincidence that I like windmills	genxlib	Jun 2021	#38
AH! A Quixote!	2Gingersnaps	Jun 2021	#127
Good statement.	Old Crank	Jun 2021	#39
I tend to withhold my opinions on events like this for several days, at least...	Wounded Bear	Jun 2021	#40
I would imagine that the priority right now	Mr.Bill	Jun 2021	#41
Yes, you are correct	genxlib	Jun 2021	#52
In the 80s I had a friend who worked on the study	Mr.Bill	Jun 2021	#61
Yes that is a famous case study for us	genxlib	Jun 2021	#70
I am sure there are engineers	KT2000	Jun 2021	#89
Thanks for the reality check, genxlib.	Martin68	Jun 2021	#42
Since we have been fed a steady diet of speculation by 24hr news channels	TNNurse	Jun 2021	#43
Hearing some of the dumbass things said by doctors who are in...	3catwoman3	Jun 2021	#51
I figure many of the people in Congress	Mr.Bill	Jun 2021	#63
I think Bill Frist was a pretty good doctor.	TNNurse	Jun 2021	#71
Bill Frist	Jilly_in_VA	Jun 2021	#134
.	sarchasm	Jun 2021	#46
My concern is if other adjacent buildings are in jeopardy if the ground is unstable	Arazi	Jun 2021	#48
Not the same engineers	genxlib	Jun 2021	#54
This is typical whenever anything big happens.	Treefrog	Jun 2021	#50
The video sealed the grief	LittleGirl	Jun 2021	#56
If you look at the video I don't know how anybody in the	avebury	Jun 2021	#125
It will be a miracle	LittleGirl	Jun 2021	#133
Thank you. Speculation creates emotion as though it was fact.	nolabear	Jun 2021	#58
There is no such time!!	NotANeocon	Jun 2021	#59
Maybe "blame" is the wrong word?	ShazzieB	Jun 2021	#79
Yes indeed!	NotANeocon	Jun 2021	#91
This is one of the best things about DU	Leith	Jun 2021	#60
We also have non-doctors, non-lawyers and non-engineers ready to speculate endlessly...	brooklynite	Jun 2021	#92
The old Code - of Hammurabi	keithbvadu2	Jun 2021	#62
Thanks for link!	burrowowl	Jun 2021	#113
Or, put another way...	MrModerate	Jun 2021	#64
Thank you genxlib - I am guilty and I will stop	OriginalGeek	Jun 2021	#69
Thank you OG	genxlib	Jun 2021	#72
Speculation lacks consequence, and is thus, at best, without substances.	LanternWaste	Jun 2021	#73
I would tend to disagree	genxlib	Jun 2021	#74
'Potential harm' is an abstract.	LanternWaste	Jun 2021	#75
I don't really understand your argument	genxlib	Jun 2021	#77
I hear you, and I agree.	ShazzieB	Jun 2021	#82
This message was self-deleted by its author	USALiberal	Jun 2021	#83
It's a discussion board. It will mean nothing. It will change nothing. Lighten up.!	USALiberal	Jun 2021	#103
Tell that to folks not getting vaccinated because they believe it will change their DNA.	Pobeka	Jun 2021	#78
It was a horrible thing. Thx for your post and may the rescuers be safe as possible.	Pobeka	Jun 2021	#80
It's a discussion board, lighten up! Nt	USALiberal	Jun 2021	#84
You're absolutely correct on every point.	Ilsa	Jun 2021	#85
Great post!!!	Marrah_Goodman	Jun 2021	#86
Thank you.	chia	Jun 2021	#88
First of 9/11 was not a katrina or Haiti Storm.	speaknow	Jun 2021	#90
So you stop by to imply I am a liar	genxlib	Jun 2021	#100
A structural engineer on CNN said the pillars were compromised.	DemocratSinceBirth	Jun 2021	#101
Thanks !	speaknow	Jun 2021	#104
Bye! Blocked.	genxlib	Jun 2021	#109
You seem unnecessarily combative.	Ace Rothstein	Jun 2021	#111
All I said was 9/11 has nothing in comon with Katrina plus I said	speaknow	Jun 2021	#114
Best of luck, and thank you so much for the update! ♥	CaliforniaPeggy	Jun 2021	#105
Point well taken. Good luck to you!	Laura PourMeADrink	Jun 2021	#106
Good luck! Be safe!	moondust	Jun 2021	#107
All Safety to you - genxlib, and all working on site.	electric_blue68	Jun 2021	#108
Just saw your update, stay safe.	Ace Rothstein	Jun 2021	#110
"Please refrain from guessing....etc."	LudwigPastorius	Jun 2021	#112
Wait just one minute...	PCIntern	Jun 2021	#115
Good luck...	Mike Nelson	Jun 2021	#116
I panicked a bit when I saw a team looking around under the remaining building.	NH Ethylene	Jun 2021	#131
Thank you. Stay safe.	Joinfortmill	Jun 2021	#117
Good luck	malaise	Jun 2021	#118
Thanks for the work you do	moose966	Jun 2021	#119
Well said. When I was an ocean marine underwriter I required...	TreasonousBastard	Jun 2021	#120
Absolutely - let's get through the rescue phase and wait for the science	jimlup	Jun 2021	#121
Stay safe and thank you for all the information in this thread.	karynnj	Jun 2021	#122
And they're off.	mahatmakanejeeves	Jun 2021	#124
Wishing you and your team luck and safety	lillypaddle	Jun 2021	#129
Stay safe!	lagomorph777	Jun 2021	#130
Could increasing assault of king tides and sea level rise contributed to Miami condo collapse?	BlueWavePsych	Jun 2021	#132
Yes	seta1950	Jun 2021	#135
Agree with you genxlib	Retired Engineer Bob	Jun 2021	#137
Kicking for visibility. nt	Ilsa	Jun 2021	#138

*UPDATE* May I have a word about the Surfside Building Collapse

1. Great. Please post what your thought are as information comes out

7. I might get some preliminary feedback later today from my associates currently at the site

97. Well, stay away from FB and Twitter.

126. Thank you for the job you do....

2. ✔️

3. Excuse my skepticism that Florida officials will be forthcoming and honest about what happened

4. Ty for the work you do

5. I saw the mayor insist it should not be called Surfside. She used a different name- started with a C

33. Not sure what that is about

44. Here:

53. Champlain Towers, in Surfside, FL.

55. OK

81. Yea I think she thought it was helpful for people to have the exact location.

128. She probably wanted to avoid tarnishing the name of the entire town.

76. she was trying to stop calls from relatives of every condo owner in the entire town

6. Telling people not to speculate is an impossible order.

9. You are probably right

12. Yeah. I think because it's so terrifying that this can happen in our country

10. agreed

8. Is this information accurate?

11. It has been reported that it was literally under inspection when this occurred...

20. A clarification

67. I work in a warehouse in North Miami Beach and we just had our 40 year inspection.

93. That is a misinterpretation

94. Your point has already been made by a much earlier poster. However, it does not take into account

102. I would take that with a grain of salt

17. I don't really have any additional information on that

24. Thanks for your perspective, genxlib.

87. I look at it sort of like a plane crash.

68. No one should have been

13. Video of the condo building in Surfside collapsing:

47. I was emailed that video this morning

49. Great info!

65. Thanks for your thoughts.

123. Or during construction

99. Whoa - that happened so quick

14. You're right. Such speculation should be left to internet message boards. nt

15. this

16. I still think it was Aliens.

19. too soon

36. Or is lt..

57. Not some malfunctioning space lasers?

66. Even an expert on alien technology would agree

136. Jewish space lazer

18. Thank you- I appreciate your experience and sensibility.

21. 'Once A Failure Occurs, Gravity Takes Over And Increases Load': Engineer Paul Danforth Gives Insight

30. This is a perfect example of the media engaging in the same exercise

22. been in construction all my life & agree with you 100% !! thank you !!

23. Just making the observation that approximately 30% of US adults think aliens stole the election.

25. Thank You !!! K & R

26. Thank you for your input, genxlib. It's helpful and timely.

27. We all know the 9/11 Truthers will be promoting thermite--was there a gold depository nearby? 🤡

32. You joke

28. DU is a place to discuss things, especially things that are being

29. Much as last week's tragedy at the Pride Parade....

31. Thank you for this.

34. And right after a mass shooting is no time to discuss guns.

37. I disagree with the equivalency

45. They knew the building in Surfside was sinking in 1990.

95. "They" who?

96. Civil engineers. Saw it on the DU but I can't remember where.

98. In this thread:

35. It is our nature to speculate

38. It's not a coincidence that I like windmills

127. AH! A Quixote!

39. Good statement.

40. I tend to withhold my opinions on events like this for several days, at least...

41. I would imagine that the priority right now

52. Yes, you are correct

61. In the 80s I had a friend who worked on the study

70. Yes that is a famous case study for us

89. I am sure there are engineers

42. Thanks for the reality check, genxlib.

43. Since we have been fed a steady diet of speculation by 24hr news channels

51. Hearing some of the dumbass things said by doctors who are in...

63. I figure many of the people in Congress

71. I think Bill Frist was a pretty good doctor.

134. Bill Frist

46. .

UPDATE May I have a word about the Surfside Building Collapse