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malaise

(267,823 posts)
Wed Jun 9, 2021, 07:20 AM Jun 2021

Shouldn't he have been stripped of all benefits and sent to prison?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/he-put-me-on-a-washing-machine-and-pleasured-himself-while-molesting-me-retired-army-general-demoted-after-conviction-for-sexually-assaulting-his-daughter-starting-when-she-was-3/ar-AAKQ1U6?ocid=msedgntp


One-time Army major general James J. Grazioplene has been demoted in rank after he admittedly sexually assaulted his daughter.

The retired soldier was pared down to the rank of second lieutenant by U.S. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin, as that was the last rank in which he did a decent job, according to the Army Times.

“The Secretary of Defense changed the retired grade of then-Major General James J. Grazioplene, United States Army Retired, to second lieutenant after determining that second lieutenant was the highest grade in which he served on active duty satisfactorily,” Pentagon spokesperson Lisa Lawrence told the outlet on Monday.

“This action may not be appealed,” Lawrence continued. “Second Lieutenant Grazioplene will maintain any benefits or privileges authorized for retired officers in the grade of second lieutenant.”

His daughter, Jennifer Elmore, told Army officials in 2015 that her father had serially raped and molested her when she was a child.

“At 3, he led me to the dark, dirty basement of my grandmother’s house and put me on the washing machine and pleasured himself while molesting me,” she said in a victim impact statement. “At 8, he bought me a piano and insisted on taking me to piano lessons, all so he could park and take whatever sick pleasures that he so desired. The same horrors occurring as he regularly insisted on bathing me. It took me until college to be able to use a bar of soap.”

more at link
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Shouldn't he have been stripped of all benefits and sent to prison? (Original Post) malaise Jun 2021 OP
I agree malaise, gab13by13 Jun 2021 #1
If they will do nothing about Micheal Flynn why would doc03 Jun 2021 #2
Great question malaise Jun 2021 #4
The rot seems to be winning. jaxexpat Jun 2021 #38
Because this guy did what he did before he retired Jose Garcia Jun 2021 #42
I'd suggest castration as punishment... MiHale Jun 2021 #3
Treason, insurrection, theft, perjury, incest no big deal. gordianot Jun 2021 #5
You forgot the pardons for the murderers of those innocent citizens malaise Jun 2021 #6
I thought about saying something about murder. gordianot Jun 2021 #8
Sadly that's the truth malaise Jun 2021 #13
I lost a ton of faith in our country with those unpunished war crimes Evolve Dammit Jun 2021 #17
Well given how police in many countries malaise Jun 2021 #19
I give up. Digging a hole Evolve Dammit Jun 2021 #20
He only served 18 months in jail... Buckeye_Democrat Jun 2021 #7
He probably still got paid while in jail. gab13by13 Jun 2021 #9
So, does he have to register as a Sex Offender? 70sEraVet Jun 2021 #25
I'm guessing that happened too. Buckeye_Democrat Jun 2021 #29
--- and that's why Trump won't see the inside of a prison. 3Hotdogs Jun 2021 #10
How so? Zeitghost Jun 2021 #58
In my experience, of the cases I've known about personally, of sexual assault of minors Solly Mack Jun 2021 #11
Good effin' grief malaise Jun 2021 #14
There are some sick, twisted people in this world. Solly Mack Jun 2021 #15
Co-worker's wife had same experience with her father. Sick fucks Evolve Dammit Jun 2021 #21
More and more I give thanks for the safe malaise Jun 2021 #26
The sad reality is that it is more prevalent than we'd like to think. I witnessed enough growing up. Evolve Dammit Jun 2021 #49
For real malaise Jun 2021 #50
I was in fifth grade when I heard directly of family incest. She was in sixth grade. Then there was Evolve Dammit Jun 2021 #51
I ame from a big family and we had lots of friends in our community malaise Jun 2021 #52
How the hell did he become a major general? lonely bird Jun 2021 #12
My Question Too! ProfessorGAC Jun 2021 #54
His unsatisfactory performance sarisataka Jun 2021 #56
Thanks! That Makes Sense ProfessorGAC Jun 2021 #59
There is really something wrong with the military Baitball Blogger Jun 2021 #16
Sadly patriarchy in all our institutions gives men malaise Jun 2021 #27
I see it. And you see it. Baitball Blogger Jun 2021 #46
Where is Charles Bronson? twodogsbarking Jun 2021 #18
The answers to all of the questions sarisataka Jun 2021 #22
They make no effin'sense n/t malaise Jun 2021 #30
I think you are mixing "make sense" sarisataka Jun 2021 #34
I hear you malaise Jun 2021 #35
His retirement will be about 30% of a Major General. former9thward Jun 2021 #41
I was not sure which calculation to use sarisataka Jun 2021 #43
I don't know how many years he had. former9thward Jun 2021 #45
I saw a different article that gave 1971 sarisataka Jun 2021 #47
This message was self-deleted by its author malaise Jun 2021 #31
This message was self-deleted by its author doc03 Jun 2021 #23
Our military is starting to look like the church just doc03 Jun 2021 #24
and many other institutions malaise Jun 2021 #28
K&R spanone Jun 2021 #32
I have a close female friend North Shore Chicago Jun 2021 #33
What is R.A.I.N.N? malaise Jun 2021 #37
Hello North Shore Chicago Jun 2021 #40
Thanks malaise Jun 2021 #44
she'll suffer the rest of her life; he gets a lower pay grade. WTF Joinfortmill Jun 2021 #36
The boys club network survives and thrives... dlk Jun 2021 #39
Yes. Goodheart Jun 2021 #48
so he got an honorable discharge onethatcares Jun 2021 #53
He cannot be given a dishonorable discharge sarisataka Jun 2021 #55
under other than onethatcares Jun 2021 #57
I didn't know either sarisataka Jun 2021 #60
that makes sense onethatcares Jun 2021 #61

gab13by13

(20,867 posts)
1. I agree malaise,
Wed Jun 9, 2021, 07:26 AM
Jun 2021

If the Army won't do it why not civilian court? Usually there is no statute of limitation for pedophilia.

Someone needs to publicize this travesty.

gordianot

(15,226 posts)
5. Treason, insurrection, theft, perjury, incest no big deal.
Wed Jun 9, 2021, 07:38 AM
Jun 2021

Apparently if you are a US military flag officer.

gordianot

(15,226 posts)
8. I thought about saying something about murder.
Wed Jun 9, 2021, 07:51 AM
Jun 2021

Killing people has pretty much been a military activity since our ancestors decided not to live in trees.

malaise

(267,823 posts)
13. Sadly that's the truth
Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:00 AM
Jun 2021

but they were sent to prison for murder and pardoned by the Seditionist in chief

malaise

(267,823 posts)
19. Well given how police in many countries
Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:20 AM
Jun 2021

kill with impunity (and even official support), it's hard to see governments giving a fuck about crimes against imagined enemies. Add to that the support for assault rifles on our streets.
The only human life that matters to many are the unborn

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,847 posts)
7. He only served 18 months in jail...
Wed Jun 9, 2021, 07:42 AM
Jun 2021

... as part of a plea deal to avoid 20 years.

His daughter agreed to the plea deal.

70sEraVet

(3,430 posts)
25. So, does he have to register as a Sex Offender?
Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:31 AM
Jun 2021

The article doesn't mention. He "...pled guilty to a single count of sexual battery and in return for that, all the other charges were dismissed". But the single count of sexual battery, especially against a minor, should have required him to register.
Its no small point. That is a punishment that follows you for the rest of your life.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,847 posts)
29. I'm guessing that happened too.
Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:35 AM
Jun 2021

I only briefly followed a link that explained his jail term and plea deal. The daughter was supposedly most-focused on him admitting what he did, which was part of the plea bargain.

Ugh, these kinds of stories are so depressing!

Solly Mack

(90,740 posts)
11. In my experience, of the cases I've known about personally, of sexual assault of minors
Wed Jun 9, 2021, 07:59 AM
Jun 2021

by adults, to include the parent, the army has relocated the soldier - multiple times in the case of one multiple offender - and sought counseling for offenders - with charges/confessions/convictions not affecting their benefits or rank. The multiple offender wasn't even mandated to stay away from children and he raped a 10 month old (and a 14 year old, and a 13 year old) that attended his wife's at-home day care. He attacked young girls, little girls, and baby girls alike. A sick, all-around predator.

The other offender was the father of the 13 year old who shared his daughter with the multiple offender.

Neither lost their rank. Neither served time. Neither lost their benefits.

One was made to retire - with rank and benefits.

The other - the multiple offender - was allowed to continue to serve until he retired years later.

I know of other cases but I was at ground zero for this case. Knew all the players and when I knew about what was happening, I was the one who told the Commander.

I was floored they allowed the offenders to get away with their crimes. Though the army would say - and did say - they handled it.



malaise

(267,823 posts)
14. Good effin' grief
Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:03 AM
Jun 2021

We had a grandfather here who was not only raping his grand daughter but selling her out to his friends at the village bar

malaise

(267,823 posts)
26. More and more I give thanks for the safe
Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:32 AM
Jun 2021

and happy environment provided by our parents.

We had a cousin who married this young lady and the marriage broke up because she literally in love with the father who raped her from childhood. Her father was a prominent businessman and when he died there were glowing tributes until social media exposed the rapist. And it turned out that his daughter wasn't his only victim.

malaise

(267,823 posts)
50. For real
Wed Jun 9, 2021, 01:06 PM
Jun 2021

I only discovered that as an adult. I was truly innocent about rape and incest. As young adults we heard stories and then understood why our parents wouldn't let us visit certain homes.

Evolve Dammit

(16,632 posts)
51. I was in fifth grade when I heard directly of family incest. She was in sixth grade. Then there was
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 02:01 PM
Jun 2021

the constant, pervasive pressure for male sexual domination that started about the same time. I wish all young girls/ women could receive martial arts training (any type) because boys preyed on weakness. That would help deter such behavior, IMHO. If they had to assume that any female might be a black belt, they would be way less apt to attempt an assault.

malaise

(267,823 posts)
52. I ame from a big family and we had lots of friends in our community
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 02:13 PM
Jun 2021

so we moved in groups which included several brothers so we were lucky.

lonely bird

(1,642 posts)
12. How the hell did he become a major general?
Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:00 AM
Jun 2021

If his last rank where he performed on active duty satisfactorily was second lieutenant then how the hell was he promoted?

Incompetent and a child molester. Great.

ProfessorGAC

(64,425 posts)
54. My Question Too!
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 04:34 PM
Jun 2021

First Lieutenant, Captain, Major, Lt. Colonel, full Colonel, General...
That's at least 6 promotions, and 5 of them occurred after he was unsatisfactory in his current role.
Like getting a drunken janitor who sleeps on the job promoted until he got a VP gig because he stuck around.
Not getting it.

sarisataka

(18,220 posts)
56. His unsatisfactory performance
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 04:47 PM
Jun 2021

Is based on his confession. Presumably he was fulfilling his job duties so was promoted.

The confession however indicates he was acting improperly in his private life which is unsatisfactory performance. By applying that retroactively the army determined his rank when the abuse started. The rank prior is therefore the last rank with satisfactory performance.

They remove the promotions he should not have received had all the facts been known.

sarisataka

(18,220 posts)
34. I think you are mixing "make sense"
Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:58 AM
Jun 2021

With "like".

The military can't punish him because the statue of limitations expired.

He admitted guilt in civilian court as part of the plea deal approved by his victim.

Based on that confession the military can reduce his rank which will reduce his retirement by about 95%.

Now would I like to see him fed to pigs- perhaps, but I also do not think we should start making exceptions to laws just because we find the criminal especially heinous. As for his plea deal, if the victim approved it I am not arrogant enough to tell her she is wrong. She is the one to decide what is justice.

former9thward

(31,805 posts)
41. His retirement will be about 30% of a Major General.
Wed Jun 9, 2021, 11:16 AM
Jun 2021

So a big reduction but not 95%. MG is O-8 and 2nL O-1.

sarisataka

(18,220 posts)
43. I was not sure which calculation to use
Wed Jun 9, 2021, 11:34 AM
Jun 2021

Since there are several different retirement plans.

The one I used given PEBD of 1971 said an O-8 with over 34 years would receive about $200k annually. Changing rank to O-1 dropped it to about $12k. If that wasn't the correct calculator it would be very different.

former9thward

(31,805 posts)
45. I don't know how many years he had.
Wed Jun 9, 2021, 11:39 AM
Jun 2021

The link said he retired in 2005 but I did not see when he went in.

Response to sarisataka (Reply #22)

Response to malaise (Original post)

North Shore Chicago

(3,254 posts)
33. I have a close female friend
Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:55 AM
Jun 2021

who put in her incestuous fathers obituary, "In lieu of flowers, please send a donation to R.A.I.N.N."

North Shore Chicago

(3,254 posts)
40. Hello
Wed Jun 9, 2021, 10:45 AM
Jun 2021

The Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network is an American nonprofit anti-sexual assault organization, the largest in the United States.



RAINN

dlk

(11,438 posts)
39. The boys club network survives and thrives...
Wed Jun 9, 2021, 10:15 AM
Jun 2021

Too often, too many men are reluctant to go after one of their own and hold them truly accountable. On some level, they really don’t care all that much or they would actually do something significant to address and curtail the problem.

onethatcares

(16,133 posts)
53. so he got an honorable discharge
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 04:28 PM
Jun 2021

and a retirement package.

I'm ready to puke. There are just too many things about this that don't make any sense.Number 1 being he should be given a dishonorable discharge and lose all benefits. Treat him like the Army would a Spec 4 or below for the same offense.

sarisataka

(18,220 posts)
55. He cannot be given a dishonorable discharge
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 04:41 PM
Jun 2021

Without a conviction by a General Court Martial. That cannot happen because of the statue of limitations.

The lowest discharge he could receive is under other than honorable conditions. I am not sure if there is a reason he could not have been given such, or perhaps he was but it wasn't mentioned.

onethatcares

(16,133 posts)
57. under other than
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 05:35 PM
Jun 2021

removes the ability to collect benefits if I'm not mistaken.

He's already retired so "for the good of the service" does not apply leaving, Bad Conduct, General under Honorable, General under other than Honorable, or Dishonorable.

But maybe rules are different for the "O" class NOt arguing, just know wondering why he was allowed to obtain O1 retirement bennies.

sarisataka

(18,220 posts)
60. I didn't know either
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 05:55 PM
Jun 2021

So I reached out to a former JAG I know.

He said when retirement is involved the service member must agree to a lower discharge. Usually that is in exchange for dropping a Court Martial. He thinks since the threat of the Court Martial was taken away it was easier to give him still an honorable discharge. Trying to force the issue could have opened an appeal path to get his rank reinstated.

onethatcares

(16,133 posts)
61. that makes sense
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 08:25 PM
Jun 2021

thank you for reaching out to JAG. I know someone that was given a OTH for a civilian conviction but he was not offered any type of bennies. He is also in never never land about firearm ownership due to the nature of OTC discharge.

Anyway, thank you again.

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