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Wed Jun 9, 2021, 07:20 AM

Shouldn't he have been stripped of all benefits and sent to prison?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/he-put-me-on-a-washing-machine-and-pleasured-himself-while-molesting-me-retired-army-general-demoted-after-conviction-for-sexually-assaulting-his-daughter-starting-when-she-was-3/ar-AAKQ1U6?ocid=msedgntp


One-time Army major general James J. Grazioplene has been demoted in rank after he admittedly sexually assaulted his daughter.

The retired soldier was pared down to the rank of second lieutenant by U.S. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin, as that was the last rank in which he did a decent job, according to the Army Times.

“The Secretary of Defense changed the retired grade of then-Major General James J. Grazioplene, United States Army Retired, to second lieutenant after determining that second lieutenant was the highest grade in which he served on active duty satisfactorily,” Pentagon spokesperson Lisa Lawrence told the outlet on Monday.

“This action may not be appealed,” Lawrence continued. “Second Lieutenant Grazioplene will maintain any benefits or privileges authorized for retired officers in the grade of second lieutenant.”

His daughter, Jennifer Elmore, told Army officials in 2015 that her father had serially raped and molested her when she was a child.

“At 3, he led me to the dark, dirty basement of my grandmother’s house and put me on the washing machine and pleasured himself while molesting me,” she said in a victim impact statement. “At 8, he bought me a piano and insisted on taking me to piano lessons, all so he could park and take whatever sick pleasures that he so desired. The same horrors occurring as he regularly insisted on bathing me. It took me until college to be able to use a bar of soap.”

more at link

61 replies, 2813 views

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Reply Shouldn't he have been stripped of all benefits and sent to prison? (Original post)
malaise Wednesday OP
gab13by13 Wednesday #1
doc03 Wednesday #2
malaise Wednesday #4
jaxexpat Wednesday #38
Jose Garcia Wednesday #42
MiHale Wednesday #3
gordianot Wednesday #5
malaise Wednesday #6
gordianot Wednesday #8
malaise Wednesday #13
Evolve Dammit Wednesday #17
malaise Wednesday #19
Evolve Dammit Wednesday #20
Buckeye_Democrat Wednesday #7
gab13by13 Wednesday #9
70sEraVet Wednesday #25
Buckeye_Democrat Wednesday #29
3Hotdogs Wednesday #10
Zeitghost Thursday #58
Solly Mack Wednesday #11
malaise Wednesday #14
Solly Mack Wednesday #15
Evolve Dammit Wednesday #21
malaise Wednesday #26
Evolve Dammit Wednesday #49
malaise Wednesday #50
Evolve Dammit Thursday #51
malaise Thursday #52
lonely bird Wednesday #12
ProfessorGAC Thursday #54
sarisataka Thursday #56
ProfessorGAC Thursday #59
Baitball Blogger Wednesday #16
malaise Wednesday #27
Baitball Blogger Wednesday #46
twodogsbarking Wednesday #18
sarisataka Wednesday #22
malaise Wednesday #30
sarisataka Wednesday #34
malaise Wednesday #35
former9thward Wednesday #41
sarisataka Wednesday #43
former9thward Wednesday #45
sarisataka Wednesday #47
malaise Wednesday #31
doc03 Wednesday #23
doc03 Wednesday #24
malaise Wednesday #28
spanone Wednesday #32
North Shore Chicago Wednesday #33
malaise Wednesday #37
North Shore Chicago Wednesday #40
malaise Wednesday #44
Joinfortmill Wednesday #36
dlk Wednesday #39
Goodheart Wednesday #48
onethatcares Thursday #53
sarisataka Thursday #55
onethatcares Thursday #57
sarisataka Thursday #60
onethatcares Thursday #61

Response to malaise (Original post)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 07:26 AM

1. I agree malaise,

If the Army won't do it why not civilian court? Usually there is no statute of limitation for pedophilia.

Someone needs to publicize this travesty.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 07:34 AM

2. If they will do nothing about Micheal Flynn why would

they care about that?

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Response to doc03 (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 07:38 AM

4. Great question

The rot is everywhere across the planet

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Response to malaise (Reply #4)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 10:09 AM

38. The rot seems to be winning.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 11:18 AM

42. Because this guy did what he did before he retired

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 07:37 AM

3. I'd suggest castration as punishment...

Only if it was good with his daughter.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 07:38 AM

5. Treason, insurrection, theft, perjury, incest no big deal.

Apparently if you are a US military flag officer.

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Response to gordianot (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 07:40 AM

6. You forgot the pardons for the murderers of those innocent citizens

of Iraq

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Response to malaise (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 07:51 AM

8. I thought about saying something about murder.

Killing people has pretty much been a military activity since our ancestors decided not to live in trees.

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Response to gordianot (Reply #8)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:00 AM

13. Sadly that's the truth

but they were sent to prison for murder and pardoned by the Seditionist in chief

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Response to malaise (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:14 AM

17. I lost a ton of faith in our country with those unpunished war crimes

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #17)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:20 AM

19. Well given how police in many countries

kill with impunity (and even official support), it's hard to see governments giving a fuck about crimes against imagined enemies. Add to that the support for assault rifles on our streets.
The only human life that matters to many are the unborn

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Response to malaise (Reply #19)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:23 AM

20. I give up. Digging a hole

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 07:42 AM

7. He only served 18 months in jail...

... as part of a plea deal to avoid 20 years.

His daughter agreed to the plea deal.

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Response to Buckeye_Democrat (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 07:52 AM

9. He probably still got paid while in jail.

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Response to Buckeye_Democrat (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:31 AM

25. So, does he have to register as a Sex Offender?

The article doesn't mention. He "...pled guilty to a single count of sexual battery and in return for that, all the other charges were dismissed". But the single count of sexual battery, especially against a minor, should have required him to register.
Its no small point. That is a punishment that follows you for the rest of your life.

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Response to 70sEraVet (Reply #25)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:35 AM

29. I'm guessing that happened too.

I only briefly followed a link that explained his jail term and plea deal. The daughter was supposedly most-focused on him admitting what he did, which was part of the plea bargain.

Ugh, these kinds of stories are so depressing!

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 07:55 AM

10. --- and that's why Trump won't see the inside of a prison.

Fines and forfeiture? Maybe.

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Response to 3Hotdogs (Reply #10)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 05:38 PM

58. How so?

This unfortunate situation was due statute of limitations.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 07:59 AM

11. In my experience, of the cases I've known about personally, of sexual assault of minors

by adults, to include the parent, the army has relocated the soldier - multiple times in the case of one multiple offender - and sought counseling for offenders - with charges/confessions/convictions not affecting their benefits or rank. The multiple offender wasn't even mandated to stay away from children and he raped a 10 month old (and a 14 year old, and a 13 year old) that attended his wife's at-home day care. He attacked young girls, little girls, and baby girls alike. A sick, all-around predator.

The other offender was the father of the 13 year old who shared his daughter with the multiple offender.

Neither lost their rank. Neither served time. Neither lost their benefits.

One was made to retire - with rank and benefits.

The other - the multiple offender - was allowed to continue to serve until he retired years later.

I know of other cases but I was at ground zero for this case. Knew all the players and when I knew about what was happening, I was the one who told the Commander.

I was floored they allowed the offenders to get away with their crimes. Though the army would say - and did say - they handled it.



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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #11)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:03 AM

14. Good effin' grief

We had a grandfather here who was not only raping his grand daughter but selling her out to his friends at the village bar

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Response to malaise (Reply #14)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:08 AM

15. There are some sick, twisted people in this world.

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Response to malaise (Reply #14)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:24 AM

21. Co-worker's wife had same experience with her father. Sick fucks

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #21)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:32 AM

26. More and more I give thanks for the safe

and happy environment provided by our parents.

We had a cousin who married this young lady and the marriage broke up because she literally in love with the father who raped her from childhood. Her father was a prominent businessman and when he died there were glowing tributes until social media exposed the rapist. And it turned out that his daughter wasn't his only victim.

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Response to malaise (Reply #26)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 01:03 PM

49. The sad reality is that it is more prevalent than we'd like to think. I witnessed enough growing up.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #49)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 01:06 PM

50. For real

I only discovered that as an adult. I was truly innocent about rape and incest. As young adults we heard stories and then understood why our parents wouldn't let us visit certain homes.

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Response to malaise (Reply #50)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 02:01 PM

51. I was in fifth grade when I heard directly of family incest. She was in sixth grade. Then there was

the constant, pervasive pressure for male sexual domination that started about the same time. I wish all young girls/ women could receive martial arts training (any type) because boys preyed on weakness. That would help deter such behavior, IMHO. If they had to assume that any female might be a black belt, they would be way less apt to attempt an assault.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #51)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 02:13 PM

52. I ame from a big family and we had lots of friends in our community

so we moved in groups which included several brothers so we were lucky.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:00 AM

12. How the hell did he become a major general?

If his last rank where he performed on active duty satisfactorily was second lieutenant then how the hell was he promoted?

Incompetent and a child molester. Great.

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Response to lonely bird (Reply #12)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 04:34 PM

54. My Question Too!

First Lieutenant, Captain, Major, Lt. Colonel, full Colonel, General...
That's at least 6 promotions, and 5 of them occurred after he was unsatisfactory in his current role.
Like getting a drunken janitor who sleeps on the job promoted until he got a VP gig because he stuck around.
Not getting it.

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #54)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 04:47 PM

56. His unsatisfactory performance

Is based on his confession. Presumably he was fulfilling his job duties so was promoted.

The confession however indicates he was acting improperly in his private life which is unsatisfactory performance. By applying that retroactively the army determined his rank when the abuse started. The rank prior is therefore the last rank with satisfactory performance.

They remove the promotions he should not have received had all the facts been known.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #56)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 05:42 PM

59. Thanks! That Makes Sense

I did not know that.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:09 AM

16. There is really something wrong with the military

This is a reflection of their own organization

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #16)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:34 AM

27. Sadly patriarchy in all our institutions gives men

lots of passes

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Response to malaise (Reply #27)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 11:44 AM

46. I see it. And you see it.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:18 AM

18. Where is Charles Bronson?

He would fix this.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:29 AM

22. The answers to all of the questions

That are being asked are in the article.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #22)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:36 AM

30. They make no effin'sense n/t

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Response to malaise (Reply #30)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:58 AM

34. I think you are mixing "make sense"

With "like".

The military can't punish him because the statue of limitations expired.

He admitted guilt in civilian court as part of the plea deal approved by his victim.

Based on that confession the military can reduce his rank which will reduce his retirement by about 95%.

Now would I like to see him fed to pigs- perhaps, but I also do not think we should start making exceptions to laws just because we find the criminal especially heinous. As for his plea deal, if the victim approved it I am not arrogant enough to tell her she is wrong. She is the one to decide what is justice.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #34)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 09:05 AM

35. I hear you

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #34)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 11:16 AM

41. His retirement will be about 30% of a Major General.

So a big reduction but not 95%. MG is O-8 and 2nL O-1.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #41)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 11:34 AM

43. I was not sure which calculation to use

Since there are several different retirement plans.

The one I used given PEBD of 1971 said an O-8 with over 34 years would receive about $200k annually. Changing rank to O-1 dropped it to about $12k. If that wasn't the correct calculator it would be very different.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #43)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 11:39 AM

45. I don't know how many years he had.

The link said he retired in 2005 but I did not see when he went in.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #45)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 11:48 AM

47. I saw a different article that gave 1971

As his original commission date

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #22)


Response to malaise (Original post)


Response to malaise (Original post)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:31 AM

24. Our military is starting to look like the church just

move them to a different command.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #24)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:35 AM

28. and many other institutions

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:43 AM

32. K&R

unbelievable

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 08:55 AM

33. I have a close female friend

who put in her incestuous fathers obituary, "In lieu of flowers, please send a donation to R.A.I.N.N."

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Response to North Shore Chicago (Reply #33)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 10:03 AM

37. What is R.A.I.N.N?

Thanks in advance

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Response to malaise (Reply #37)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 10:45 AM

40. Hello

The Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network is an American nonprofit anti-sexual assault organization, the largest in the United States.



RAINN

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Response to North Shore Chicago (Reply #40)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 11:35 AM

44. Thanks

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 09:55 AM

36. she'll suffer the rest of her life; he gets a lower pay grade. WTF

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 10:15 AM

39. The boys club network survives and thrives...

Too often, too many men are reluctant to go after one of their own and hold them truly accountable. On some level, they really don’t care all that much or they would actually do something significant to address and curtail the problem.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Wed Jun 9, 2021, 12:01 PM

48. Yes.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 04:28 PM

53. so he got an honorable discharge

and a retirement package.

I'm ready to puke. There are just too many things about this that don't make any sense.Number 1 being he should be given a dishonorable discharge and lose all benefits. Treat him like the Army would a Spec 4 or below for the same offense.

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Response to onethatcares (Reply #53)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 04:41 PM

55. He cannot be given a dishonorable discharge

Without a conviction by a General Court Martial. That cannot happen because of the statue of limitations.

The lowest discharge he could receive is under other than honorable conditions. I am not sure if there is a reason he could not have been given such, or perhaps he was but it wasn't mentioned.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #55)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 05:35 PM

57. under other than

removes the ability to collect benefits if I'm not mistaken.

He's already retired so "for the good of the service" does not apply leaving, Bad Conduct, General under Honorable, General under other than Honorable, or Dishonorable.

But maybe rules are different for the "O" class NOt arguing, just know wondering why he was allowed to obtain O1 retirement bennies.

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Response to onethatcares (Reply #57)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 05:55 PM

60. I didn't know either

So I reached out to a former JAG I know.

He said when retirement is involved the service member must agree to a lower discharge. Usually that is in exchange for dropping a Court Martial. He thinks since the threat of the Court Martial was taken away it was easier to give him still an honorable discharge. Trying to force the issue could have opened an appeal path to get his rank reinstated.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #60)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 08:25 PM

61. that makes sense

thank you for reaching out to JAG. I know someone that was given a OTH for a civilian conviction but he was not offered any type of bennies. He is also in never never land about firearm ownership due to the nature of OTC discharge.

Anyway, thank you again.

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