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Wed Jun 2, 2021, 02:13 PM

Why so many Trump supporters crave apocalyptic bloodshed

I converted to Judaism a long time ago but I have been watching various christian sects who are pushing concepts like support of Israel will hasten a second coming


As a Jew, I do not care why these groups support Israel and I know that Israel needs such support.

What scares me now is that there is a subset of the groups who want a second coming who also support the Former Guy and believe that reelection or reinstatement of the Former Guy will hasten a second coming. For example


Now these supporters are evidently advocating or praying for violence to restore the Former Guy



Fact is, lots of Americans believe they are God's chosen people. They believe the end of the world is coming, according to God's divine plan. They believe the US Constitution is a covenant with them only, and that a genocidal purge will preface Christ's return.

This is the End Times I'm talking about, a story about global events culminating in apocalyptic bloodshed that "reinstates" the King of Kings to his rightful place. It's a story millions of Americans tell themselves and their children. It's a story in which the messy and hard-to-understand world around us is no such thing. Instead, it is polarized as conflict between God's friends and God's enemies. The only difficulty is decoding the signs and symbols God lays out. Reality isn't real. Reality is a sinful illusion. What's real is the trail of secrets leading the chosen safely to The End. Argument, language, reasoning—they don't matter. Only they can know The Truth.

The conventional wisdom in Washington is that religion is off-limits. Therefore, the conventional wisdom in Washington does not see, because it will not see, that tens of millions of Americans already believe democracy is getting in the way of God's plan, that democracy is—and I mean this seriously—desecrating the sacredness of the US Constitution. As one critic put it, the Venn diagram showing the overlap of QAnon believers and white evangelical Protestants (and related groups) is actually a circle. When you stand with God against His enemies, you have God's permission to hate.

That's their religion. No, it's not a cult. It's more than that. It's deeper than that. The hate felt by the former president's supporters during four years' worth of political rallies is the same hate for America as it stands, not as they desire it to stand, that right-wing religious radicals have felt since post-Civil War America. That's when Charles Darwin's theories and what they determined about humanity's place in God's divine scheme first gained traction in the United States. Every single intellectual development—from evolution then to Critical Race Theory now—has been met with such hate. I don't understand why the conventional wisdom looks away from history.

Because it's easier, I guess. It's easier to maintain the myth of the civic religion; to be shocked by Americans talking about a military coup; to blame the former president for imperiling the world's oldest democracy. It's easier to respect religion without scrutinizing it too much, and risk discovering it's steeped in hate, which might force the conventional wisdom in Washington to take responsibility. On this one-year anniversary since Trump gassed Americans out of the way for a photo-op of him holding a Bible in front of a church, we need the truth. And that's never been easy.

The idiots who support Israel for the sake of a second coming scare me. The trump supporters who want a revolution really scare me. We came close to a full blown civil war on Jan. 6 and there are a good number of trump supporters who are still praying for such a civil war to reinstate their leader/messiah. There are still risks of a civil war or other attempt to reinstall trump.

I hope that the prosecution and conviction of trump may help but I may be wrong. We live in scary times

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Reply Why so many Trump supporters crave apocalyptic bloodshed (Original post)
LetMyPeopleVote Jun 2 OP
The Magistrate Jun 2 #1
EYESORE 9001 Jun 2 #2
CrispyQ Jun 2 #6
Progressive Jones Jun 2 #3
meadowlander Jun 2 #4
Lunabell Jun 2 #5
Hekate Jun 2 #7
Hortensis Jun 3 #16
JustAnotherGen Jun 3 #19
Whiskeytide Jun 2 #8
LetMyPeopleVote Jun 3 #18
dawg day Jun 2 #9
Quoph Jun 2 #10
TomSlick Jun 2 #11
slater71 Jun 3 #17
brer cat Jun 3 #12
hatrack Jun 3 #13
Hortensis Jun 3 #14
LetMyPeopleVote Jun 3 #15
FakeNoose Jun 3 #20
GulfCoast66 Jun 3 #21
Azathoth Jun 3 #22
gulliver Jun 4 #23
LetMyPeopleVote Jun 8 #24

Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Original post)

Wed Jun 2, 2021, 02:17 PM

1. Hear Hear, Sir

Nothing to add save to note that a world cleansed in fire was prominent in foundational Christian teaching. On every level, this is a feature, not a bug.

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Original post)

Wed Jun 2, 2021, 02:35 PM

2. A good many of these end-timers also believe

they’ll get ‘raptured’ before the SHTF, thereby avoiding a physical death - presumably, a very painful death. They see no downside when they’ll get swept up to canoodle with Sky Daddy, and it won’t even hurt!

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Response to EYESORE 9001 (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 2, 2021, 02:48 PM

6. I wish their stupid rapture would happen today & suck all their self-righteous asses out of here.

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Original post)

Wed Jun 2, 2021, 02:38 PM

3. To me, there isn't much that is more insane

than having people driven by religious fantasies involved in government or World politics.

These "end timers" are a demented death cult.

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Original post)

Wed Jun 2, 2021, 02:40 PM

4. They're losers who understand that the only way they will "win" is if 90% of the rest of us

are no longer in the game somehow.

Normal, well-adjusted people with satisfying jobs and families and homes and active civic lives don't go around fetishising end-times and stock-piling toilet paper.

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Original post)

Wed Jun 2, 2021, 02:46 PM

5. True! My dad was one.

Truly believed all that end of days shit. That returning Jerusalem to the Jews will somehow bring Jesus back. It's a big cult.

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Original post)

Wed Jun 2, 2021, 03:28 PM

7. I first got a grip on the Rapture people about 20 years ago, when I got online...

I mean I already knew about them, but I thought they were a far-out fringe movement and harmless to others. In my 1950s childhood they were people who stayed out of politics because it was “of the world” and sinful.

Reagan made me very uneasy by catering to far-right Christians, but I didn’t know the half of it then.

Then I got to DU with its penchant for links to primary sources (I love primary sources, and my academic creds were then shiny and new) — at which point I did quite a bit of research, and ended up staring into the heart of darkness.

End Times, Rapture, Theocrats, Dominionists, whatever you call them — they were rapidly mainstreaming their ideas via home-schooling textbooks, the massively popular “Left Behind” series of novels, and the foundation of “colleges” designed to feed their graduates into politics, starting with internships with Congressmen, Senators, and judges. There was and is big money behind them, too, the Kochs and Mercers and someone whose name escapes me just now.

Reading up on the scandals associated with Reed, DeLay, and Abramoff was a treat. It was like those three jolly fellows looked at our society and realized they could divide it into 3 parts, like ancient Gaul. Reed with his choirboy face got the Christians.

My husband was (and is) the one who would periodically remind me how much Evangelicals looooove Jews, right up until they consigne all unconverted Jews to an eternal lake of fire. Many a time someone had struck up a friendly conversation with him, only to have it go off the rails when it turned out they wanted him to convert to Christianity and he was not interested. All the Evangelicals want Jews and Israel for is the Second Coming of Christ. When our niece was in early adulthood she told me one of those “what the hell just happened to me in the lunchroom, the conversation was so friendly for awhile?” stories, and I waved hubby over saying, you really need to talk to your uncle. Born and raised in California’s laid-back Central Coast, she and her husband had moved to Bakersfield — where the esteemed Congressman McCarthy hails from — and it was a whole other world.

You are right to find these people and their power scary. Theocracy is an ugly, ugly thing and brings out the absolute worst in humanity. If anyone chooses to be a priest, monk, or nun of any religion, and live in their own little commune, that is their right. But leave the rest of us out of it. The Founding Fathers knew what they were writing about — Europe had soaked itself in blood for centuries, and carried the sword into Jerusalem — humanity is better off keeping organized religion out of government, far away from swords.

I’ll stop now. I appreciate your post — people really need to be aware of this.





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Response to Hekate (Reply #7)

Thu Jun 3, 2021, 09:48 AM

16. Yes to all. Religious right power seekers used Trump to the max.

He had to have their backing, and they packed his administration right up through the cabinet and VP with their own.

When Koch said, "what a mess," fear of what the religious groups they used and thought they could control have to have been part of what he was thinking. It's not as if ruthless power seekrs, secular and religious, don't always try to harness religious fervors, and haven't all too often ended up stood against the wall themselves.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #7)

Thu Jun 3, 2021, 11:07 PM

19. +100

All of it.

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Original post)

Wed Jun 2, 2021, 03:38 PM

8. Good post, except that there ...

... will not be a Civil War. It’s not logistically feasible today. Democracy won’t die in a bloody conflict. It will die in the Courts and the legislatures.

Edited to add “and in the media”.

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Response to Whiskeytide (Reply #8)

Thu Jun 3, 2021, 07:44 PM

18. I hope that you are correct

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Original post)

Wed Jun 2, 2021, 05:29 PM

9. Bibi has been cynically exploiting this group.

He doesn't care apparently about the subliminal antisemitism.

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Original post)

Wed Jun 2, 2021, 05:55 PM

10. All foreign military aid needs to be cut off

Whether to the Middle East, Europe or Japan.

Tired of Uncle Sam paying for other country’s militaries.

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Response to Quoph (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 2, 2021, 09:46 PM

11. Uncle Sam is not an altruist.

The US supports foreign militaries only when it is in the perceived interests of the US. We support foreign militaries to provide a check on adversaries, to maintain a balance or power, or for the purpose of fostering international relations. Of course, the fact that US military aid results in sales to US arms manufacturers greases the wheels a bit.

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Response to Quoph (Reply #10)

Thu Jun 3, 2021, 11:36 AM

17. Israel wants USA aid to rebuild after the past war.

MSMBC just reported this.

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Original post)

Thu Jun 3, 2021, 07:39 AM

12. K&R

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Original post)

Thu Jun 3, 2021, 08:09 AM

13. This malignant idiocy has been poisoning this country for 150 years

The whole thing was cobbled together by some hack preacher named Darby back in the 1840s, based on half a sentence in Revelations.

Skip ahead to 0:50 to get to the gist of it:

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Original post)

Thu Jun 3, 2021, 08:32 AM

14. It's been going on for most of 2000 years. Most of our founding fathers

accepted or actively believed in the concepts of zionism and the second coming. What can you say? It's in the Bible.

The current surge of strong-conservative bad trouble, including attempts to impose increasing authoritarianism on governments, results from many factors (being studied!), and is happening in many nations around the world, as it has in the past. Our "enlightened people" turn out not to be exempt. We're merely the citadel of democracy whose dangerous craziness has shocked and alarmed a world that has become dependent on our stability.

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Original post)

Thu Jun 3, 2021, 09:33 AM

15. This pro-Trump leader of a religious sect that worships with assault rifles

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Original post)

Thu Jun 3, 2021, 11:13 PM

20. Yes there are goofy Catholic groups like this too - Opus Dei and others

So many nuts running around, they all think God is talking to them!

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Original post)

Thu Jun 3, 2021, 11:38 PM

21. I can't believe any educated person does not know tjnhis.

As an ex-evangelical I grew up believing this shit.

Most evangelicals I knew had a pretty negative view of individual Jews. You could safely say anti-Semitic

But see Israel as critical to bringing back Jesus so support the state. Why else would natural anti-semites support Israel?


But of course before the rapture the Jewish people will all reject their religion and accept Jesus and become Christians. Ignoring the fact a shit ton of Israelis are not religious at and all the others are wedded to their faith.

Now, only around 20% of Americans believe this shit. But they are not evenly distributed. In many states the are 50% or so.

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Original post)

Thu Jun 3, 2021, 11:57 PM

22. Christian Zionism has been a major factor ever since the days of Balfour

With that said, what the Christian Right provide is a fanatical voting bloc. They're the foot soldiers of the Israel Lobby, not its management.

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Original post)

Fri Jun 4, 2021, 12:14 AM

23. It's just a death wish, but they want to take everyone with them.

It's no more complicated than that. They crave an end to life, much like people crave satisfying endings to movies. They want their little saga resolved and no more sagas for anyone. That way they win and the game is over forever. It's just mental weakness and ego. Religion is merely a means.

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Original post)

Tue Jun 8, 2021, 02:50 PM

24. The GOP's base is preparing for a holy war -- and Democrats need to pay attention

The GOP base contains a large percentage of religious nut cases https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-gops-base-is-preparing-for-a-holy-war-%e2%80%94-and-democrats-need-to-pay-attention/ar-AAKNOe0

For millions of Americans, the coming era of politics — present and future, decided election by election and bill by bill — amounts to nothing less than a holy war, waged by the armies of the righteous against the infidels.

Across the United States, from coast to coast, this zealotry is on the march, tramping in time to a steady stream of right-wing propaganda. The rhythm twists the truth and revels in outright falsehood with gleeful, unapologetic bellicosity, as it drums up the masses to a fever pitch of righteous rage. The sentiments that these Republicans share differ at times in the particulars — not all believe, for example, that the Democratic Party is a front for blood-drinking, Satanic pedophilia, but many do.

What they all share is a central, apocalyptic commonality. Whether they believe, as 56 percent of the Republicans do, that the 2020 election was stolen from Donald Trump in plain sight or that the dual specters of socialism and anti-white racism stand to destroy their faith and lives if given any quarter, the message, and its galvanic effect, is ultimately the same.

In this context there is little incentive for these true believers to adhere to the quibbling pieties of the democratic process, or to fairness, or even to accept any loss as legitimate. If one believes a priori that one’s opponents are thieves, would-be totalitarians, drinkers of children’s blood, wresting back power becomes in and of itself a moral imperative, regardless of the means. The storming of the Capitol on Jan. 6 begins to make sense if you realize that the thousands in the crowd saw themselves as foot soldiers in a war, self-described patriots battling for the soul of their country, with fists, fire extinguishers and flagpoles....

The present and near future of American politics, then, is a conflict between these two faiths: one which has at its core a desire to annihilate, another built around the desire to submit. In this grim circumstance, it’s hard to see a path forward for any progressive dream — and easy to see a descent into a far-right future whose swath of destruction will move forward irrespective of the niceties of lawful governance. Those who dismiss the belief of millions of Republicans in what they say openly that they believe — in a stolen election, in the fundamental inhumanness of their political opponents — and make light of its most outlandish manifestations risk a complacency that will cost them dearly. Without arming holy war ourselves, the least we can do is ask our elected officials to recognize the urgency of what is unfolding around them — and to abandon, long past its time, a faith in cooperation with those who seek none and desire everything.

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