I had a strange and upsetting experience yesterday

[macwriter]

Yesterday I went back to my chiropractor for the first time in 14 months. He has helped me enormously over the years with back issues I've had. No one has helped me more. Since I am finally fully vaccinated and past the two week mark, I decided now was the time to go back. I came in masked up, he was, too. In the middle of my treatment, I casually asked, "so, you're fully vaccinated, right?" I was just making conversation. To my shock, he said, "actually, no. I don't want to get vaccinated. To me, it was developed too quickly and I want to wait and see what happens." I just about jumped off the table, but I had wires attached to me and couldn't. I left as soon as I could without another word. It never occurred to me that a health care professionals would not be vaccinated. I won't be going back to him. I feel like such a dummy for assuming he was vaccinated. Am I overreacting?

[unc70]

1. No! Not overreacting

[AnyFunctioningAdult]

2. Chiropractors

Are not health care professionals so this does not surprise me at all.

[Binkie The Clown]

25. They provide health care and therefore qualify as health care professionals...

...whether you agree with their methods or not.

I would never go to one myself, but I respect others' decision to do so.

[Tree Lady]

38. Most I have known are into natural care

And tell you to follow strict diet and take lots of supplements.

But they are covered by medical insurance.

[Silent3]

107. I went to a chiropractor before I understood what chiropractic means

All I had known was these were the people a lot of other people went to when they had back pain. I had no idea until later on what a whackadoodle pseudoscience chiropractic is.

That doesn't mean chiropractors can't make people with sore backs feel better. The one I went to did provide me with temporary relief. But I'd much rather go to a evidence-based physical therapist now that I know more.

[oldsoftie]

42. And cue the chiropractor bashing

They go to school, learn about the body & what they do IS health care.
Many people say chiropractors have done wonders for them. Who are we to say they're wrong.

[EYESORE 9001]

55. I believe chiropractic, full of woo, deserves bashing

I will go toe-to-toe with anyone who cares to debate the ‘merit’ of its traditions, among which, I might add, is a strong anti-fax streak.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

83. Well, faxing does seem outdated, but many businesses & medical practices

do still rely on that technology. So, what do chiropractors have against faxes?

[oldsoftie]

91. My comment isnt about vaccination. Its about results

I have friends who I know for a fact had severe issues with pain and mobility and found relief through chiropractors. Their medical doctors were just prescribing pain pills which only masked the problem. Or questioning if they were LOOKING for pain pills. Personally I've never used a chiropractor and cringe at that thought of the "adjustment" procedures. But I know these people and I've seen the difference in them. No one can say the chiropractors have no merit. They wouldnt stay in business if people didnt keep coming back. And they're not going back for a prescription. I doubt placebo effect would be the explanation on such a large scale

If you look around there are many MDs & nurses who are not getting vaccinated for whatever excuse. Chiropractors dont deserve to get put in their own category of ignorance when its a big club right now.

[EYESORE 9001]

93. I will concede that temporary relief from back pain

can result from spinal manipulation, but that’s the extent of it - and even the premise behind ‘subluxation’ is frought with woo. Let me remind you that the subject of the OP is a chiropractor denouncing vaccination for COVID-19, so let me pose this question: what group is more likely to resist vaccination - chiropractors or mainstream medical practitioners. If you’re being honest with us, you’ll concede that both-siderism is ludicrous in the extreme. Chiropractors resisted the polio vaccine, insisting their woo could cure everything resulting from that virus; their views have not evolved. Consider this definition of chiropractic:

The claim that all disease arises from misalignment of the spine (called “subluxations”) and fixing the misalignment can cure disease.

Pure-D woo. Defend this nonscientific codswollop if you can. I won’t take away from the temporary pain relief, but that’s not really what this thread is about, is it?

[pnwmom]

59. They don't go to medical school and their training is in bones, joints, etc.

They don't have a background in infectious diseases or virology.

[oldsoftie]

92. I agree; my point wasnt about that.

Its the constant criticisms of them as being quacks that have no effect when i've seen it work personally. I just cant tell someone "He didnt help you" when I see the difference myself
ALL the anti vaxxers should be lumped together IMO

[pnwmom]

96. They helped my father with his back pain. Unfortunately, some of them

go beyond that sort of thing and think their manipulations and other natural means are better than conventional medicine.

[oldsoftie]

98. I have seen one like that locally.

He used to advertise that he could help with allergies, weight loss, etc, using chiropractic. Never knew anyone who went to him though. And it seemed like he was the only one locally who got "creative" with his advertising.

[pnwmom]

105. Right, that's the kind I'm talking about. The OP might have been going to

one more like that.

[StClone]

69. Many Chiropractors don't get vaccinated. This bothers me.

[Celerity]

88. The founders, the Palmers, espoused anti-vaccination opinions in the early part of the 20th

century, rejecting the germ theory of disease in favour of a worldview that a subluxation-free spine, achieved by spinal adjustments, would result in an unfettered innate intelligence; this, along with other healthful lifestyle choices, would allow a person to thwart disease by marshalling the body’s natural recuperative abilities.

Some chiropractors continue to staunchly champion the Palmer postulates, while others do not. At the national level, advocacy organizations publish conflicting position statements. We explore how this divisiveness has impacted chiropractic ideology, perceptions among students and practitioners, politics and issues of jurisprudence as reflected by the evolution of a standard of chiropractic practice in at least one Canadian province (Ontario). We opine that the chiropractic profession should champion a health promotion and disease prevention approach to vaccination, which would allow it to align itself with the broader healthcare community while not abandoning its traditional tenets.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3743646/

Scientology and chiropractic: is there a link?

https://edzardernst.com/2019/10/scientology-and-chiropractic-is-there-a-link/

Recently, I stumbled across this website and the following text:

“Measles are an implant Scientology can handle using New Era Dianetics,” said Scientology chiropractor Colonel Dr. Roberto Cadiz. “As a chiropractor, I see mock ups of so-called serious diseases all the time,” Dr. Cadiz remarked. “And fully 99% of the time these diseases are chronic subluxations caused by dangerous childhood vaccinations the Psychs force on everyone.” “Chiropractic adjustment, the Purification Rundown, CalMag, and Dianetics auditing are crucial parts of the treatment regimen for cancers, measles, etc. What you need to find are the words in the implant that turn the disease on. As LRH wrote of leukemia:

‘”Leukaemia is evidently psychosomatic in origin and at least eight cases of leukaemia had been treated successfully by Dianetics after medicine had traditionally given up. The source of leukaemia has been reported to be an engram containing the phrase ‘It turns my blood to water.’”

“When the preclear gives the exact words hidden in the implant during an auditing session the implant vanishes. The e-meter literally blows up and falls of the table. Of course, continued chiropractic adjustments for life are needed to keep these heavy engrams from going into restimulation. Ideally, chiropractic adjustments should be done three times a week to maintain optimal health.”

Yes, this is so far out, it could almost be a hoax. But I fear it is for real. In the past I have come across many similar statements by scientology chiros. This led me to wonder for some time now: is there a link between the two?

Come to think of it, chiropractic and scientology have a lot in common:

they are both based on frightfully weird theories,
they both are known use the e-meter (or derivatives of it);
they are both akin to a religion or cult;
they are both fiercely against drugs;
they both feel pursued by the medical profession;
they both promote detox;
they both recommend useless supplements;
they both tend to be anti-vax;
they both have powerful lobby groups to support them;
they both tend to react very aggressively to criticism.


One does not have to look far to find further links on the internet – there are virtually hundreds.

Take this website, for instance:

Stewart Edrich thanks Scientology because it aligns perfectly with his practice of chiropractic and clinical nutrition because it covers your entire existence. Unfortunately for him, someone found this on the internet which destroys what little positive credibility he has through Scientology…

David Murdoch learned about Scientology at Palmer — “A group of us were having dinner and he remarked that a lot of the chiropractic management firms got their management data directly from L. Ron Hubbard.”

Or have a look here, here or here.

Or read reports like this one:

A South Florida chiropractic office has agreed to pay a $170,000 settlement to a group of former employees who claim they were forced to participate in Scientology practices.

Or this one:

A South Carolina chiropractor has been sued by a former employee for allegedly forcing sexual acts — and Scientology — on her, according to a report.

So, does any of this prove anything?

No!

Does it raise a suspicion that there might be a link?

Yes!

[Celerity]

88. The founders, the Palmers, espoused anti-vaccination opinions in the early part of the 20th

century, rejecting the germ theory of disease in favour of a worldview that a subluxation-free spine, achieved by spinal adjustments, would result in an unfettered innate intelligence; this, along with other healthful lifestyle choices, would allow a person to thwart disease by marshalling the body’s natural recuperative abilities.

Some chiropractors continue to staunchly champion the Palmer postulates, while others do not. At the national level, advocacy organizations publish conflicting position statements. We explore how this divisiveness has impacted chiropractic ideology, perceptions among students and practitioners, politics and issues of jurisprudence as reflected by the evolution of a standard of chiropractic practice in at least one Canadian province (Ontario). We opine that the chiropractic profession should champion a health promotion and disease prevention approach to vaccination, which would allow it to align itself with the broader healthcare community while not abandoning its traditional tenets.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3743646/

Scientology and chiropractic: is there a link?

https://edzardernst.com/2019/10/scientology-and-chiropractic-is-there-a-link/

Recently, I stumbled across this website and the following text:

“Measles are an implant Scientology can handle using New Era Dianetics,” said Scientology chiropractor Colonel Dr. Roberto Cadiz. “As a chiropractor, I see mock ups of so-called serious diseases all the time,” Dr. Cadiz remarked. “And fully 99% of the time these diseases are chronic subluxations caused by dangerous childhood vaccinations the Psychs force on everyone.” “Chiropractic adjustment, the Purification Rundown, CalMag, and Dianetics auditing are crucial parts of the treatment regimen for cancers, measles, etc. What you need to find are the words in the implant that turn the disease on. As LRH wrote of leukemia:

‘”Leukaemia is evidently psychosomatic in origin and at least eight cases of leukaemia had been treated successfully by Dianetics after medicine had traditionally given up. The source of leukaemia has been reported to be an engram containing the phrase ‘It turns my blood to water.’”

“When the preclear gives the exact words hidden in the implant during an auditing session the implant vanishes. The e-meter literally blows up and falls of the table. Of course, continued chiropractic adjustments for life are needed to keep these heavy engrams from going into restimulation. Ideally, chiropractic adjustments should be done three times a week to maintain optimal health.”

Yes, this is so far out, it could almost be a hoax. But I fear it is for real. In the past I have come across many similar statements by scientology chiros. This led me to wonder for some time now: is there a link between the two?

Come to think of it, chiropractic and scientology have a lot in common:

they are both based on frightfully weird theories,
they both are known use the e-meter (or derivatives of it);
they are both akin to a religion or cult;
they are both fiercely against drugs;
they both feel pursued by the medical profession;
they both promote detox;
they both recommend useless supplements;
they both tend to be anti-vax;
they both have powerful lobby groups to support them;
they both tend to react very aggressively to criticism.


One does not have to look far to find further links on the internet – there are virtually hundreds.

Take this website, for instance:

Stewart Edrich thanks Scientology because it aligns perfectly with his practice of chiropractic and clinical nutrition because it covers your entire existence. Unfortunately for him, someone found this on the internet which destroys what little positive credibility he has through Scientology…

David Murdoch learned about Scientology at Palmer — “A group of us were having dinner and he remarked that a lot of the chiropractic management firms got their management data directly from L. Ron Hubbard.”

Or have a look here, here or here.

Or read reports like this one:

A South Florida chiropractic office has agreed to pay a $170,000 settlement to a group of former employees who claim they were forced to participate in Scientology practices.

Or this one:

A South Carolina chiropractor has been sued by a former employee for allegedly forcing sexual acts — and Scientology — on her, according to a report.

So, does any of this prove anything?

No!

Does it raise a suspicion that there might be a link?

Yes!

[Disaffected]

99. The good that chiropractors do is

called physiotherapy. If they stuck to that, no big problem.

The problem is however that many chiropractors (in particular the so-called 'straight' chiropractors) get heavily into medical nonsense what with their belief that most/all disease is caused by spinal subluxations which are a non-existent entity, at least in the chiropractic sense. Thusly their conclusion that vaccination is unnecessary and ineffective...

[DENVERPOPS]

60. Last year

here in Colorado, the Chiropractors conned the state legislature into licensing them as Acupuncturists with a 30 hour continuing education class and NO NATIONAL BOARD EXAM........

LOL, all other acupuncturists take four years of acupuncture college and have to pass the national boards to get licensed....

Then, the same state legislature, turned around and licensed all PT's in the state with the same requirements......

[spooky3]

3. No, and you're not a dummy. You were smart to ask. You could

consider telling him how much he’s helped you but that you can’t return until he’s vaccinated. Maybe he will rethink his position.

[SheltieLover]

7. +1000

[spooky3]

8. Hi!

[soldierant]

30. If it weren't for developments in mRNA research,

his "It was developed too quickly" would be a good point. Look how long it too for HIV 9and not only because of public misconceptions - it genuinely took that long.) But mRNA research and development has made it much easier and faster. I don't know whether that will help or not.

[luvtheGWN]

50. Scientists have been working on the development

of an mRNA vaccine since SARS in 2003. I'd say 18-19 years is a pretty good stretch of time, and not at all "too quickly".

[Claire Oh Nette]

71. Call that shit out

I worked for Syntex then Roche in Palo Alto in the 90s doing clinical research.

GOt a new hair stylist, and a cut Tuesday, first one in nearly two years. SHe's vaccinated, I'm vaccinated, and one woman wore a mask. We chatted. I let people ask.

Then, I explain well, sure, for this strain of the SARS virus, but when the Clinton Administration funded the human genome project, we got all this RNA information, too, when they unlocked the whole DNA sequence. Then, when SARS hit, they worked on the vaccine, but the virus burned itself out too fast. Viruses, do that, you know...."

And they don't know. By then, the masked woman, and the other stylist, who's also vaccinated, are listening close. Brief intro to Clinical trials, what phase I, 2, and 3 mean, how adverse event reporting works, and what the FDA made us document. In a friendly, oh, you've heard of Aleve/tramadol/mycophenolate/taxol....

It's weirdly esoteric knowledge, but when the fearful uncertain ask, I answer.

Knowledge is power.

[soldierant]

78. Yes, that's what I remembered reading

but didn't remember well enough to give this complete an explanation.

I love Palo Alto. I grew up there from 1950 (when I was 5) to 1966 when I graduated from Stanford. Thsn I joined the Marine Corps (OCS Quantico) and never got back except to visit a few times. Still nostalgic, though.

[Claire Oh Nette]

79. I lived in SanMateo

in an old converted victorian house, near the hospital.
half hour to Candlestick. Best commute i ever had: south on El Camino to 92, 92 west to 280 south down to Palo Alto.

Fog clung to the trees in the hills, then into the tunnel and out the other side into the sunshine. Just amazing. On a clear day, on the way home, as 92 crested, you could see SF for a second.

Miss that area. A lot. If I had a magic lamp, I go back. Now that I'm vaccinated, I'll just visit.

[soldierant]

111. I was born in a hospital, but

the house they brought me home to from it was in San Mateo.

The only aspect of that area I don't miss is the cost of living.

[BobTheSubgenius]

34. Perfect response!

Polite, but firm, with clear guidelines. Also necessary, IMO.

[Laurelin]

4. No

I think it's good to change any time you're uncomfortable with a health care provider. I don't want anyone who isn't vaccinated to get close to me.

[soothsayer]

5. At least he was wearing a mask

[DURHAM D]

6. I quit my chiropractor little more than a year ago because she

was not masking or making her clients mask.

You are not over-reacting. I quit going to a previous chiropractor when he started talking anti-vax shit.

As others have said - some are not very smart.

[Haggard Celine]

9. After I got out of the hospital last year,

I had home health coming by to check on me. When I asked one of the nurses if she had been vaccinated, she told me the same thing your chiropractor told you. I was shocked, too, because I figured that any nurse going out to visit sick people would be required to be vaccinated. I lost some respect for her after that, and I really didn't trust her judgement. These people are everywhere; you can't help but come into contact with them, but you don't have to support them.

[hlthe2b]

10. I can relate a story from the 90s from the Atlanta Suburbs where an emergency veterinary clinic

down the street from Life College of Chiropractic sadly saw so many dying parvovirus-infected puppies in one month that they made the news and multiple professional publications. A fair majority could be traced to owners who refused to vaccinate, who were either the employees of, patients of, or students of that Chiropractic school. Apparently, the link was investigated and that school was preaching that vaccines were bad or unnecessary or whatever, but the key line was that they taught that even with polio. that it was not the vaccine that contained and ultimately eliminated polio from the Americas, but (yup, you guessed it), "chiropractic!" The veterinarians at that emergency clinic had to deal with all these brainwashed chiropractic students arguing that to their faces as their infected puppies succumbed.

I have never forgotten that. I believe that school was investigated for other things over the years, but as far as I know, it still exists.



I'm sure there are some competent chiropractors, but I'd check them out, for sure.

[FakeNoose]

11. Maybe he'd already contracted Covid?

Maybe he didn't want to tell anybody?

Nevertheless people who have had the virus should still get vaccinated as soon as possible.

[catrose]

12. I had the same experience wth mine only I called the morning of my appt to ask.

The receptionist said she had the first shot but that the doctor wouldn't be doing so. So I said I needed to cancel.

The next week my dentist wanted me to confirm an upcoming appt. I asked if the whole office was vaxxed. She said no, and I said I'd reschedule when everyone was.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect your health team to vaccinate.

[PortTack]

13. Had a similar experience with a hair dresser first appointment- my regular person retired

Me..fully vaccinated. I asked when I arrived if she had been vaccinated, she had no mask on and to my surprise she said no. Gave the usual anti vaxxer type excuse. Asked her if she worn a mask...no.

She even went on to tell me she had 4 ppl in her family that had had covid. What is wrong with these ppl??!!

[Ferrets are Cool]

14. No, you are not overreacting.

[Irish_Dem]

15. No you are not overreacting.

I would do the same thing.

[LakeArenal]

16. No. Trust your own brain.

[JoanofArgh]

17. This is standard anti-vax propaganda. They all say it. He'll never get vaccinated.

CNN went out and interviewed random people and a couple people said the exact same words, then admitted they had no plans to get vaccinated ever.


"actually, no. I don't want to get vaccinated. To me, it was developed too quickly and I want to wait and see what happens."

[beaglelover]

18. If you like your chiropractor and feel he has greatly helped you in the past, I'm not understanding

your reaction when you are 2 weeks past your second dose. I have a great chiropractor and since I'm fully vaxed I will continue to see him as necessary because he always makes me feel better. I don't care if he's vaxed or not. If I, by chance, got COVID from him during a visit, I have a 99.9999999% chance of a very mild case and probably would not know I even had it.

[GulfCoast66]

74. Well, if it keeps them from going to a chiropractor rather than a real medical professional

Then it is a win.

Depending on the condition if they went to a physical therapist or Orthopedic specialist then repeated visits would not be necessary.

I’ve been through this. Chiropractors give temporary relief. True medical professionals solve the problem.

It’s what Chiropractors count on. Unlimited visits by those who never really get better.

Been there, done that.

[JudyM]

90. Not the case with me, anyway... one visit completely repaired my 3-years-of-pain shoulder!

That was about 15 years ago, no issue with the shoulder since then. They’re definitely good at some things.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

84. But you might pass it on to a more vulnerable person.

Someone who might die or have long-term ill effects from having COVID.

[beaglelover]

102. Fully vaxed people cannot pass on the virus to others.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

110. That's not what the CDC says. Maybe, but they're not sure about that yet.

What We Are Still Learning

We are still learning how well vaccines prevent you from spreading the virus that causes COVID-19 to others, even if you do not have symptoms. Early data show that vaccines help keep people with no symptoms from spreading COVID-19.

We are also still learning how long COVID-19 vaccines protect people.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/keythingstoknow.html?s_cid=10493:covid%20vaccine%20shot:sem.ga:p:RG:GM:gen

[Niagara]

19. You're not overreacting.

It would be upsetting to go in for treatment and then the chiropractor admits to not being vaccinated.



If you feel comfortable doing so, you could call and let him know that you won't be coming back until he has been vaccinated. Be firm but polite.


If that's not comfortable for you to inform him, try to find another chiropractor that is vaccinated. Perhaps you'll find treatment with someone that you like better.


Currently I'm not visiting with anyone who isn't vaccinated for my own health and safety.


Editing to add: When I had my taxes done by H&R Block back in March, they let all their customers know that everyone that worked at such and such location was vaccinated.

[mahina]

20. You raise an important question. How do we talk with people

Last edited Sat May 22, 2021, 09:25 PM - Edit history (1)

About this effectively?

I’ve found asking plausibly non-judging questions helps. (I judge.)

If you can’t be comfortable with a white lie it’s a little harder.

“I used to think so too. I found a great quick informational video with facts I didn’t know. Would it be ok if I send it to you? I’d love to hear your thoughts”

This used to have a less judgemental headline

[Niagara]

23. +1000

Thank you for sharing this video.

[mahina]

66. You bet. I had no part of making it of course. It's persuasive, right?

[Delphinus]

65. That was great!

Thank you - it's a bit dated, with the deaths, etc., but good information.

[mahina]

67. Yeah

💧
🤙🏼

[Disaffected]

21. Hey, he's a

chiropractor.....

Do yourself a favour and switch to a licensed physiotherapist.

And why on earth did he have wires attached to you?

[GulfCoast66]

75. The wires re-enforce the woo. Straight out of chiropractor class 101.

[Disaffected]

100. Yeah, it's probably

another of the goofy gadgets they use to detect or treat 'subluxations'.

I would be interested to hear from the OP however what exactly the wires were supposedly for.

[Laffy Kat]

22. Not saying there's no place for chiropractors, but I would never go to one.

So many of them preach and practice woo. Having said that, I'm sure there are good ones out there.

[NewHendoLib]

77. I'm not sure there are. It is just woo to my mind.

[babylonsister]

24. I had a pre-op nurse tell me she wasn't

vaccinated. She was my pre-op nurse, on March 29th. Shocked I was.

[macwriter]

26. so a couple of things...

The wires I was referring to are EMS electrodes that send electrical pulses on tiny pads to sore muscles to speed healing. There are two things that upset me.
1. My husband, who is in his 70s, is diabetic, asthmatic and has heart disease. Even a slight exposure to COVID through someone not vaccinated could be dangerous for him.
2. But I also am upset that he feels he has no responsibility to his patients to make his office environment as low risk as possible.

Having said that, I am going to call him next week and tell him I can't come back until and unless he is fully vaccinated. It will be a hard conversation, but I won't be nasty or rude about it. I suspect many of his patients have no idea of his position on this and just assume he is. And if his attitude is prevalent among chiropractors, will try a physiotherapist, good idea.

[Skittles]

27. you didn't tell him?

these folk need to KNOW they will lose business because of their idiocy

[Evolve Dammit]

28. I have been asking folks before I show up. No harm in that, and no, not over-reacting

[ananda]

29. No you are not overreacting. I left my chiropractor...

early on because nobody in the office was wearing masks
or disinfecting.

I haven't gone back since because I can actually adjust
my back myself now. It's a case of stretching enough
to pull the bones farther apart on the left side. I can do
that over the side of the bed.

[dawg day]

31. I know a very good chiropractor--

has returned a friend of mine to being able to walk without pain--
And he said very seriously that he knows several people who "dropped dead" after getting "the vaccine."

I said, "Which vaccine? There are four, you know. And with none of them is anyone dropping dead."

"They're all killing people!" he averred.

I said, "Prove it. Show me the source."

He stubbornly said that these were people he knew in town. I pointed out that if so, the local newspaper would no doubt have a story about this, or at least their obits, so what were their names?

He huffed and puffed and went off down the path (we'd run into each other in the park).

My friend- his patient-- said that he refused to wear a mask or even let his office staff choose to wear a mask. I said she should report him to the licensing agency, but she just can't-- dangerous as he is, he has magic hands, she said, and she can't do without him. (Therapeutically, she meant!

I just wish talented and useful people would stop the whole anti-masking/anti-vax stuff. Van Morrison! Eric Clapton!
Will I ever be able to happily hear their music now?

[whistler162]

32. Only over 1 billion shot given

better to wait awhile longer!

[citizen blues]

33. No, not over-reacting

His argument about it being developed too quickly is false. They started working on a vaccine in the aftermath SARS 1. That means it's been in the works for over a decade. That's why it was able to be developed as quickly as it was.

That's also why the studies done in China to test people who had SARS 1 to see if there was evidence that they had immunity from SARS 2 (COVID-19). Substantial evidence indicated that they were immune meant that it wasn't hard to extrapolate and adapt what they had already developed to cover SARS 2.

[Aristus]

35. "Over the years".

This is why I discourage my patients from visiting a chiropractor. If you have back pain your primary care provider cannot treat, the next step is physical therapy. I've had patients tell me they have been visiting a chiropractor for years with no lasting improvement in their condition.

That's because a chiropractor doesn't want you to get better; he wants you to keep coming back so he can make his Mercedes payments.

A really good, first-class physical therapist wants to treat your problem and then never see you again, because you've shown improvement, or even resolution of the symptoms.

If physical therapy doesn't work, the next step is orthopedics.

Please stay away from chiropractors.

[GulfCoast66]

73. Thank you! Of course someone with muscle problems will feel better with manipulation.

But it is short lived and you have to go back.

I’ve experienced this myself. Badly pulled a muscle near my shoulder blade about 15 years ago. Was in such pain I had to sleep in a recliner rather than with the wife. Two trips to the Chiropractor gave a few days of relief. Finally went to my excellent, now retired doctor. She said you need an orthopedic guy because it might be more than a pulled muscle.

He gave me 2 scripts and a stretching routine and in 5 days I was good to go.

Now if I feel tight I might go to a chiropractor to get what amounts to a deep massage covered by insurance.

But I read about their training. They know shit about medicine and often believe in woo.

I spent 2 years doing pre-vet and then switched to plant science with an strong element of genetic science. I have no doubt I have as good a science education as most chiropractors. And I don’t believe in woo.

If a chiropractor helps someone a good physical therapist or even a good massage would do the same. But if you have a real condition they are quacks.

I can’t believe they are even allowed. And that insurance covers them.

[Aristus]

80. Manipulation is only appropriate if the vertebrae are out of alignment.

And even then, physical therapy is the better choice.

It's sad that chiropractic has become so embedded in the public consciousness that people automatically conclude "Back pain? Chiropractor!"

[GulfCoast66]

81. I should have said massage. Because when I had my injury it helped.

For a few days.

Then I saw a real doctor. And the problem was solved.

[Akoto]

103. Do you have many colleagues who are choosing not to get vaccinated?

The OP's story is not the first I've heard of a medical professional (chiropractor or otherwise) doing so. In fact, generally for the same reason stated, that they feel it was developed too quickly and so they'll not be test subjects.

Of course, I don't agree as someone who just finished being fully vaccinated. Curiosity calls, even so!

[Aristus]

104. No.

Every one of my colleagues has either gotten vaccinated already, or will be soon.

And if a member of my own clinical team refused to get vaccinated, I'd wish them well, and dismiss them from my team.

[dmacdon4]

36. Chiropractic

Unfortunately, chiropractic is not a science-based approach to health care.

[TomSlick]

52. I tend to agree.

I deal with a lot of chiropractors in my law practice.

The ones that are essentially providing physical therapy cause me no issues. What bothers me are the ones who claim to be able to cure cancer, aids, high blood pressure, anything by spinal "adjustments" or message therapies.

This particular chiropractor may be one of this ilk and doesn't really believe in virology.

[marble falls]

70. Oh? Then why does your state recognize and license them ...

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/322038#are-chiropractors-legitimate


What's the truth about chiropractors?


Chiropractors attend graduate-level health colleges to treat disorders of the bones, nerves, muscles, and ligaments. They graduate as doctors of chiropractic degrees, but they are not medical doctors.

While chiropractors are widely known for treating back and neck pain, they also treat bone and soft tissue conditions.

In this article, we explore myths and truths of chiropractic care. We also describe the training that chiropractors undergo, how safe these treatments may be, and the research behind the practice.

What certifications must chiropractors have?

A chiropractor’s work involves making adjustments to reduce back pain.

A common myth is that chiropractors do not undergo a significant amount of training.

In fact, they typically complete about 8 years of higher education before they are licensed.

Chiropractors tend to have 4 years of undergraduate education.

They usually graduate with a pre-med major after having taken courses in sciences, such as biology, chemistry, psychology, and physics.

They then attend a chiropractic graduate program. On average, these involve 4 years of education with a total of 4,200 instructional hours in course credits.
Chiropractic program specifics

Divided by year, a chiropractic graduate program usually involves:

First year: Courses in general anatomy, chiropractic principles, biochemistry, spinal anatomy.
Second year: Courses in chiropractic procedures, pathology, clinical orthopedics, imaging interpretation, and research methods.
Third year: Courses in clinical internships, integrated chiropractic, pediatrics, dermatology, practice management, and ethics and jurisprudence.
Fourth year: A clinical internship, in which a student studies under a chiropractor and completes rotations in a hospital or veterans’ clinic.

Other studies often accompany those mentioned above.

After completing the educational and training requirements, an aspiring chiropractor in the United States will sit for their state licensing board. Once they have obtained licensure and certification from the board, they will become a doctor of chiropractic.

Chiropractors often receive additional training and certification in a wide variety of specialties, including nutrition, sports medicine, acupuncture, and rehabilitation.

According to the American Chiropractic Association, the average chiropractic program involves as many classroom hours as a program that trains medical doctors.
Are chiropractors legitimate?

Another common myth is that a chiropractor merely cracks a person’s back or bones.

Chiropractic care is centered around spinal manipulation. However, practitioners also study how the spine and its structures are related to the body’s function.
What do chiropractors attempt to heal?
Chiropractors attempt to heal whiplash-related conditions.

A majority of a chiropractor’s work involves making adjustments to heal:

lower back pain
whiplash-related conditions
neck pain

They may also provide services such as postural testing and analysis, as well as others designed to promote nutrition and healthful exercise.
Does it work?

According to the National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health in the U.S., chiropractic therapy is the type most commonly used for back pain. An estimated 74 percentTrusted Source of Americans with pain in this area have used chiropractic care at some point in their treatment.

Results of a 2010 review cited by the center suggest that spinal manipulation may be useful for treatingTrusted Source back pain, migraine headaches, whiplash, and other conditions affecting the upper and lower extremities.

Like other forms of treatment, chiropractic care will not benefit all injuries. Sessions should be tailored to a person’s needs and performed by a licensed chiropractor.
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Who could benefit?

Several myths surround this question. One myth is that chiropractors only treat back pain. In fact, chiropractic care can also help to heal pain in the foot, elbow, shoulder, and neck.

The same review cited by the National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health concluded that chiropractic treatment is not usefulTrusted Source in treating:

asthma
hypertension
menstrual pain

Authors of the review failed to find definitive evidence that chiropractic care treated musculoskeletal conditions, such as fibromyalgia, temporomandibular joint disorders, and mid-back pain.

Chiropractors also do not treat traumatic injuries, such as bone fractures. A chiropractor will usually perform an X-ray to ensure that treatment will not worsen a traumatic injury.
Science supporting chiropractic treatment
Studies suggest that chiropractic methods are viable options for managing pain.

A 2018 review included 17 years of studies involving spinal manipulation and mobilization, which is a more passive form of manipulation.

The studies investigated the effects of these treatments on chronic lower back pain, and the authors concluded that the chiropractic methods were “viable” options for pain management.

A 2017 review examined the effectiveness of spinal manipulation in treating lower back pain.

The authors concluded that treatment improved both function and pain for up to 6 weeksTrusted Source.

The American College of PhysiciansTrusted Source recommend that those with lower back pain use a variety of non-pharmacological treatments, including spinal manipulation.

Researchers generally agree that more studies are needed to determine the ideal length and frequency of chiropractic sessions and to identify what injuries may benefit from specific treatments.


One of the most common sources of contention regarding chiropractic treatments concerns safety.

A person may experience side effects of spinal manipulation, including:

discomfort in areas treated
fatigue
headaches

There have been occasional reports of long-term danger related to chiropractic care.

The National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health reports that severe complicationsTrusted Source may include worsening pain and cauda equina syndrome, which involves nerve damage in the lower spinal cord.

According to the American Chiropractic Association, most discomfort and soreness subsides within 24 hours of spinal manipulation.

The World Health Organization (WHO) state that it is unsafe for people with certain health conditions to undergo chiropractic manipulation. These conditions includeTrusted Source:

bone disease and infections
broken bones
inflamed joints, such as in cases of rheumatoid arthritis
some circulation problems
infections of the nervous system

Takeaway

An aspiring chiropractor must spend thousands of hours studying before obtaining a license. In 2016, an estimated 47,400 chiropractors were practicing in the U.S., according to the country’s Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Chiropractic care is drug-free and non-invasive, and it may treat some musculoskeletal problems. While this form of alternative medicine may not benefit everyone, it is generally considered safe for most people.



And of course there are MDs who also practice chiropractic - They are called Osteopaths, and they do perform surgery.

[NewHendoLib]

76. But then there is this -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic

Chiropractic is a pseudoscientific[1] alternative medicine[2] that is concerned with the diagnosis and treatment of mechanical disorders of the musculoskeletal system, especially the spine.[3]

snip

D. D. Palmer founded chiropractic in the 1890s,[21] after saying he received it from "the other world";[22] Palmer maintained that the tenets of chiropractic were passed along to him by a doctor who had died 50 years previously.[23] His son B. J. Palmer helped to expand chiropractic in the early 20th century.[21] Throughout its history, chiropractic has been controversial.[24][25] Its foundation is at odds with evidence-based medicine, and has been sustained by pseudoscientific ideas such as vertebral subluxation and innate intelligence.[26] Despite the overwhelming evidence that vaccination is an effective public health intervention, among chiropractors there are significant disagreements over the subject,[27] which has led to negative impacts on both public vaccination and mainstream acceptance of chiropractic.[28] The American Medical Association called chiropractic an "unscientific cult" in 1966[29] and boycotted it until losing an antitrust case in 1987.[19] Chiropractic has had a strong political base and sustained demand for services. In recent decades, it has gained more legitimacy and greater acceptance among conventional physicians and health plans in the United States.[19]

snip

Effectiveness

There is no conclusive evidence that chiropractic is effective for the treatment of any medical condition, except perhaps for certain kinds of back pain.[7][8] Generally, the research carried out into the effectiveness of chiropractic has been of poor quality.[91][92] Numerous controlled clinical studies of treatments used by chiropractors have been conducted, with varied results.[7] Research published by chiropractors is distinctly biased.[7] For reviews of SM for back pain chiropractic authors tend to have positive conclusions, while others did not show any effectiveness.[7]

There is a wide range of ways to measure treatment outcomes.[93] Chiropractic care, like all medical treatment, benefits from the placebo response.[94] It is difficult to construct a trustworthy placebo for clinical trials of spinal manipulative therapy (SMT), as experts often disagree about whether a proposed placebo actually has no effect.[95] The efficacy of maintenance care in chiropractic is unknown.[10]

______________________________

My view is that it is in the same ballpark as homeopathy - and that placebo effect looms large. Personally I am not a fan, or a believer in it.

[XanaDUer2]

37. That would make me very uncomfortable. I wouldn't go back nt

[patricia92243]

39. Hubby's home health nurse not vaccinated. n/t

[Tree Lady]

40. I got a mammogram last week and tech

Who took the pics told me she was vaccinated but many who worked in the hospital were not, when I asked why not, she said they were all waiting. Not that they never would but just wanted more time.

[johnthewoodworker]

41. Republican/Nazis work everywhere and never do the proper thing.

[Hortensis]

43. No. He's negligent, and highly immoral to boot. At very least,

he had an obligation to inform everyone ahead of time.

[oldsoftie]

44. You're vaccinated. I wouldnt worry too much about HIM

YOU are nearly 100% safe. HE is not.

[aggiesal]

45. My supervisor and his nurse wife haven't been vaccinated ...

for the same reason.
They're African American, so I understand their hesitancy but I continue to push the vaccine.

[Happy Hoosier]

46. Doesn't surprise me...

Many Chiropractors are skeptical of mainstream medicine.

[duhneece]

47. Please let him know that

Let him know that you won’t be back and why.

[c-rational]

48. No. Sounds like a normal reaction to me.

[arlyellowdog]

49. I had a similar experience

I had breast cancer and my yearly mammogram for the remaining breast is always so scary. The tech had asked me if I was vaccinated. Right at the end I asked which vaccine she got and she gave me the same stupid answer you got. I am also pissed because 98% of disabled persons in our community are vaccinated, but many caregivers refuse.

[TraceNC]

53. You're not overreacting at all. I would have reacted the same way.

[Aussie105]

54. I'm convinced

that the unconvinced, 'I am gonna wait a bit' section of society will experience their own wave of COVID-19.

The vaccinated will just smile and watch that happen.

But that happens now, with the seasonal flu. Some people go 'Golly, it's a bad season for the flu! I got really sick!' while others go 'What flu? I got vaccinated early on!'

Give it a couple of years, and the unconvinced will be convinced. On the flu shot and COVID-19 shot(s).

Meanwhile, keep asking the questions. And be safe out there.

(Yes. I've had mine. Both the flu and the first AZ shot, next AZ in August, 12 weeks after the first.
Getting the 'gonna wait a bit' from some family members. Not going to argue.
Funerals aren't too expensive. $10K abouts.
Not going to shed any tears if it comes to that.)

[AllyCat]

56. Chiros. You would be hard-pressed in my area to find any

that vaccinate against anything. I went to a lady who had just taken her kids to “play with the Amish” to expose them to chicken pox. I never went back.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

57. You were smart to ask, and to be upset.

And I hope that he didn't essentially try to rip off your head like this chiropractor (a little after the 9:20 mark):

[Disaffected]

101. Good grief,

if that doesn't make you avoid chiropractors, what would? He has the demeanor of a carnival barker.

And if you ever see a chiropractor for whatever misguided reason, NEVER let them adjust your neck.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

106. I know, right?!

I've never been to any chiropractors anyway, but there's no way that I'd let them touch my neck if I did.

I've visited DO's who gave me "adjustments" in the past when I had back pain, but it was always far more gentle than what that guy in that video does! And none of them ever messed with the neck!

And now most DO's don't even want to do that stuff anymore, worried they could cause worse problems without at least trying other techniques to alleviate discomfort.

By the way, I've seen other videos of that chiropractor with patients who definitely looked worse afterwards, standing more crooked and seeming to grimace in more pain, but they still proclaimed that they felt better after his "treatments". Lol!

[Disaffected]

108. '...but they still proclaimed that they felt better after his "treatments"'

IOWs:

Q: Why are you hitting your head on the floor?

A: Because it feels so good when I stop.

[reACTIONary]

58. No excuse for his dereliction. nt

[BootinUp]

61. IMO, There are better options than a chiropractor

If the pain can’t be managed with basic and not too strenuous stretching, and strengthening excercise twice a day for 20 minutes + over the counter nsaid used sparingly, then schedule to see an orthopedic doctor. Once I gave up on chiropractic decades ago and followed an orthopedic doctors advice I never needed anything else.

Your story is just further evidence that chiropractors are not doctors. It’s a scam.

[Happy Hoosier]

72. Agreed... a quality PT specialist...

Can help you as much or more than a Chiropractor and do based on actual science.

[BlueSky3]

62. This might help

I got tired of seeing the chiropractor years ago and took the advice of my doctor to use this book:

[link:https://smile.amazon.com/Treat-Your-Back-Robin-McKenzie/dp/0987650408|

The exercises have allowed me to manage back pain for over 10 years now. Hope it helps.

[Ron Obvious]

63. You've learnt an important lesson about "Alternative Medicine"

And that includes many (though not all) chiropractors.

[marble falls]

64. No, you are not. Next year, maybe. His disconnect is crazy. He doesn't know enough to take ...

... vaccine, but he definitely has to know 600,000 in this country got covid and died because there was no vaccine for them. Since the vaccine rolled out, covid infection rates are slowing, with less than 2% infection rate for those completely vaxed.

[Aussie105]

68. 901 deaths in all of Australia during this pandemic.

I can see why some people here go 'yeah, safe to wait a bit, see how the vaccinated go'.
Even some politicians have thrown out this line.
mRNA vaccine available by year's end . . . you may choose to wait until then.
Annoying the TV talking head medical professionals no end. They say get vaccinated NOW!

But USA? 600,000 deaths, and more to come, and still not taking it seriously, still sticking to 'gonna wait a bit'?

Getting vaccinated when the virus is wafting down your street is far too late, immunity takes weeks to kick in.
You are still vulnerable for a long time after being vaccinated.

And the vaccine does nothing if you already have COVID-19 in your system. The immune response to the vaccine is too slow to help there.

Trump set a bad example.
Got COVID, supposedly, got sick, had a few shots (*), was fine a few days later.

(*) Not available to the general public.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

82. Had the same thing happen to me. It was the woman who sees patients before the doctor.

It came up when, after I'd said my husband and I'd had a really bad year that just keeps getting worse, she suggested he and I go out to lunch after the appointment. I said we hadn't gone to a restaurant since before the pandemic began and weren't going to start until well after we were vaccinated.

She said the vaccine was developed too quickly and she'd read what's in it and she'll take her chances on getting COVID before letting them put that poison in her.

Then she said, "My husband and I have been going out to eat at least once a week all along. You should go for lunch. You can't stop living your life!"

I was kind of in shock at that point, but I wish I'd thought to say that we can live our lives without doing things that risk getting ourselves or other people sick.

When the doctor came in, I asked if she'd charge me for the appointment if I left right then. She said she wouldn't charge me, but wanted to know why I would leave. When I explained it, she said their office was divided, with she & the other assistant wishing everyone would be vaccinated, and the P. A. & the assistant who saw me both being anti-vaxxers.

She said that it would be illegal and, basically, anti-American to require anyone to get the vaccine. She said we must be tolerant of others' beliefs.

I left without treatment and won't be going back.

[Rhiannon12866]

85. No, that is disturbing. I've even asked my vets.

It boggles the mind that any health care professional wouldn't get vaccinated ASAP. My friend who works in the local hospital ER was the first person I knew to get the vaccine - and she had to drive downstate to a major hospital to get the Pfizer.

And when I finally managed to get vaccinated, I mentioned it to anyone I knew. The one person who really disturbed me was an older gentleman - mid 80s - who said he wasn't getting the vaccine because his daughter isn't getting it and she's a nurse in the hospital so he gets his medical advice from her.

[GoneOffShore]

86. Not overreacting at all.

[orleans]

87. i've heard a number of stories of medical personal who aren't vaccinated

drives me crazy.

and i've convinced myself that if someone tells me they can't tell me due to hipaa laws i'll take it as a no.

[Captain Zero]

95. Tell them the 'p' in hipaa laws stands for portability of coverage

not privacy.

[Captain Zero]

94. Same thing for me with a hair cutter, and a therapeutic massage masseuse.

The hair cutter has heard weird stories about our bodies 'growing something new' from the vaccine and the masseuse has a 'medical condition' that prevents her from getting the vaccine.

I'm considering calling ahead to a haircut shop and ask specifically for an appointment with someone who is vaccinated.
And give the massuese one more chance to wise up and then ask the same thing at the shop,
which is Elements, a national chain.

Any other ideas on how to handle this?

I've been vaccinated and I have a medical condition too, but no negative effects on my health.
And I have noticed no new growth(s) anywhere. Although I still have hair, so it gives me hope for another area.

[dsc]

97. One of my school board members is a chiropractor

and he was notoriously awful about COVID protocols. He went to graduation at the school I worked at last year and refused to wear a mask despite that being the rule.

[Marrah_Goodman]

109. Lots of people you would think would know better, don't.

My sister-in-law...a cancer researcher, sent my 87 year old mother a half dozen anti-vaxx links and suggested instead she take something called lysoprine....or something like that, started with an L. I don't remember the exact supplement. I was shocked. So was my mother who politely told her she didn't have the same beliefs. Now both my folks are fully vaccinated and hopefully safe.