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Sun May 2, 2021, 01:22 PM

Simple way to minimize lethal cop interactions: only stop people for moving violations of concern

Like DUI or driving like an asshole. It has worked in NC.

https://www.thetimesnews.com/story/news/nation/2021/04/15/police-reform-fayetteville-burlington-nc-traffic-stops-policing/7225318002/

"Medlock had arrived in Fayetteville convinced that the Police Department's focus regarding motor vehicles should be on speeding, stop sign/light violations, DWI and reckless driving – moving violations of immediate concern to public safety.

Stopping drivers for nonmoving violations such as equipment failures or expired registration ought to be minimized or avoided altogether, he told his department.

Less than two months earlier, a Fayetteville officer had fatally shot a man after an investigative traffic stop."

Results?

"The number of Black drivers searched from 2013 to 2016 declined by nearly 50% compared with the previous four years, according to analysis of state data.

In the preceding four years, 5,980 Black drivers had been searched. That number went down to 3,059 during Medlock’s four years as chief."

And another positive:

"The policing had its effect on its main target: Traffic fatalities went down, proving wrong the predictions of critics that traffic safety would decline.

Medlock was excited when he saw what other numbers decreased. “Uses of force went down, injuries to citizens and officers went down, and complaints against officers went down.”

Let's say you don't want Type 2 Diabetes and all of the problems associated with it. Let's say you eat 5 gallons of ice cream a day and you are told by your physician that Type 2 is right around the corner. You always like having ice cream close by in the freezer.

One solution - don't buy ice cream in the first place and you won't eat it at home.

Problem - Cops killing people in the US at rates (33 per 10mil) WAY more than just about anywhere in the World.

Partial solution - Don't pull over people for minor infractions hoping to score a bigger bust.

Just stop.

27 replies, 1382 views

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Arrow 27 replies Author Time Post
Reply Simple way to minimize lethal cop interactions: only stop people for moving violations of concern (Original post)
JanMichael May 2 OP
Sneederbunk May 2 #1
JanMichael May 2 #2
MichMan May 2 #3
JanMichael May 2 #4
MichMan May 2 #8
Mr.Bill May 2 #11
kcr May 2 #5
dsc May 2 #23
brewens May 2 #6
Iggo May 2 #7
Ocelot II May 2 #9
Mr.Bill May 2 #12
Progressive Jones May 2 #13
Phoenix61 May 2 #17
MichMan May 2 #19
Phoenix61 May 2 #25
MichMan May 2 #26
uponit7771 May 2 #20
PatSeg May 2 #10
Ohioboy May 2 #14
uponit7771 May 2 #21
JanMichael May 2 #27
Ohioboy May 2 #15
Haggard Celine May 2 #16
Treefrog May 2 #18
dsc May 2 #24
Demovictory9 May 2 #22

Response to JanMichael (Original post)

Sun May 2, 2021, 01:25 PM

1. Problem: Municipalities want that ticket money for minor infractions.

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Response to Sneederbunk (Reply #1)

Sun May 2, 2021, 01:30 PM

2. Revenue did not take a hit

"Focused traffic enforcement for moving violations such as speed or stop/red light violations skyrocketed from 13,000 a year to 46,000 a year in four years. "

13,000 to 46,000. They got their ticket money.

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Response to JanMichael (Original post)

Sun May 2, 2021, 01:42 PM

3. Is expired registration no longer enforced at all ?

Is paying your annual license plate fee essentially optional now? Most states require proof of insurance to renew your plates. Would it mean more people are driving around uninsured now?

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Response to MichMan (Reply #3)

Sun May 2, 2021, 01:44 PM

4. You know they could just simply see it and report it to the state right?

They don't need to pull anybody over it's not reckless driving. Also if it's Tennessee they don't have f****** insurance anyway.

There are cameras everywhere it's not like the state license agency couldn't figure that one out.

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Response to JanMichael (Reply #4)

Sun May 2, 2021, 01:52 PM

8. I would just remove the plate completely then

If I can't be stopped by the police for an expired license tab, I probably can't be stopped for having none at all as I'm not endangering other drivers.

No worry about it being reported or caught on any cameras that way

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Response to MichMan (Reply #8)

Sun May 2, 2021, 03:54 PM

11. What if they made driving with no license plate at all

a felony? Would you do it then?

I'm not saying they should specifically do that, But if we are not going to pull people over for minor infractions, we may have to rethink what a minor infraction is.

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Response to MichMan (Reply #3)

Sun May 2, 2021, 01:46 PM

5. How is it that most other financial obligations aren't enforced in that way?

And yet they manage just fine?

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Response to MichMan (Reply #3)

Sun May 2, 2021, 05:26 PM

23. They can send you to collections, they can garnish your wages, they can put a boot on tire

they can put a lien on your car and take it to be sold.

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Response to JanMichael (Original post)

Sun May 2, 2021, 01:47 PM

6. I've been pulled over twice late at night for not signaling a turn, which would not happen

here during the day. One time my turn signal was out, the other time I saw no other cars anywhere and just didn't bother. There's only one reason they pulled me over; to see if I was drinking. I wasn't and I usually don't. That was a couple decades after the last time I drove drunk.

I'm not saying, it happens to old white guys too as an excuse for it, but it does. That's one reason why it will get more resistance than you'd think. In an almost all white area, that's what the cops do to write more DUI's to feed the DUI industrial complex. That's been one of my pet peeves since I was a beer guy, then bar manager.

They have more cops on shift here at night than the amount of people out justify. I'm convinced they would make it safer out writing tickets when 90% more people are driving. I'm never out late. How does busting the guys closing down the bars make me safer? If they were on shift, I'd like it better if they cruised around random neighborhoods rather than stake out the bars. They might actually stop car break in's and shit like that.

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Response to JanMichael (Original post)

Sun May 2, 2021, 01:51 PM

7. Then that's what they'll say they stopped you for.

You know how many innocent people’s doors have been kicked in behind an “I smell marijuana” or “is that a ruckus? I thought I heard a ruckus.”? Yeah, me neither. But it’s a lot.

Remember: They lie. And they’ll tell you they lie. They’re proud of it.

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Response to JanMichael (Original post)

Sun May 2, 2021, 01:57 PM

9. Non-moving violations like expired tags or broken taillights

have to be enforced somehow, otherwise those requirements would be meaningless. But wouldn't one solution be to have people other than armed police officers stop offenders and write tickets? The offenders would know they weren't in danger and might be more inclined to stop and cooperate; and if they didn't, the traffic monitor would record their license plate for later enforcement, maybe an increased fine. But there should be a means for ticketing and fining people for minor violations that have no potentially fatal consequences.

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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #9)

Sun May 2, 2021, 04:03 PM

12. Or just take a picture of it and send them the ticket.

Like they do with red light or toll booth cameras.

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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #9)

Sun May 2, 2021, 04:03 PM

13. Excellent ideas! nt

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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #9)

Sun May 2, 2021, 04:34 PM

17. Expired tags catch up with you when you renew.

Broken tail lights can be a safety hazard if brake lights aren’t working. If they have meter resets there, they could write tickets for some of those things.

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Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #17)

Sun May 2, 2021, 05:07 PM

19. The reason they are expired in the first place is because you didn't renew

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Response to MichMan (Reply #19)

Sun May 2, 2021, 05:46 PM

25. I'll try again.

At some point you will need to have a valid tag whether it’s to get insurance or the title to sell the vehicle. You’ll have to get a valid tag and at that time they will get all the money you owe them plus fines and late fees. They are a lot like the Borg, resistance is futile.

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Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #25)

Sun May 2, 2021, 06:47 PM

26. Must be different in my state

The title is sent right after you buy the vehicle; it has nothing to do with any registration status. I can sell any car I own at any time as long as their isn't a lienholder like a bank. Michigan also requires you to have insurance before they renew the plates, not after.

Every state is probably different.

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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #9)

Sun May 2, 2021, 05:15 PM

20. +1,

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Response to JanMichael (Original post)

Sun May 2, 2021, 02:08 PM

10. Absolutely

No more trivial traffic stops. Even most cops hate them and it terrifies innocent drivers. Also traffic stops give too many cops an excuse to stop and harass drivers for no real valid reason, just looking for a crime where none exists.

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Response to JanMichael (Original post)

Sun May 2, 2021, 04:07 PM

14. I often wonder...

How many speeding violations, DUI s, robberies, murders, and other crimes are taking place while cops are busy escalating a situation that started with a burnt out tail light?

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Response to Ohioboy (Reply #14)

Sun May 2, 2021, 05:18 PM

21. +1, I was talking to a cop about something similar that the trigger pullers and people who've been

... on the force longer shouldn't be involved with the traffic ticket like interactions.

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Response to Ohioboy (Reply #14)

Sun May 2, 2021, 08:22 PM

27. Well they gave out several thousand more moving violation tickets so that's something.

That means the assholes in my neighborhood would probably get a ticket for running the stop signs every freaking day.

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Response to JanMichael (Original post)

Sun May 2, 2021, 04:09 PM

15. To enforce a tail light out

Maybe the cop could just take down the plate number and the police department could email the owner.

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Response to JanMichael (Original post)

Sun May 2, 2021, 04:17 PM

16. I can go along with that.

Expired tags, inspection stickers, and other charges like that should be ticketed only after someone is pulled over already for a moving violation. You would still have states and localities getting their fines; cops would be like waiters in that they would be encouraged to 'up-sell' the charges. I think that would work and would be a benefit to safe drivers.

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Response to JanMichael (Original post)

Sun May 2, 2021, 04:38 PM

18. Ted Bundy was finally caught because of a traffic infraction.

Many criminals have been caught that way.

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Response to Treefrog (Reply #18)

Sun May 2, 2021, 05:28 PM

24. and if we searched all houses we would have stopped him sooner.

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Response to JanMichael (Original post)

Sun May 2, 2021, 05:22 PM

22. you mean cops shouldnt hassle people over a pepsi can like this?



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