The Military Says It's Confronting Extremism. A Prominent White Nationalist Just Finished Boot Camp.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/extremists-military-shawn-mccaffrey-white-nationalist_n_60706a94c5b634fd437d8e09?tfs

A prominent white nationalist joined the U.S. Air Force and recently graduated from boot camp, a HuffPost investigation has found, only weeks after Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin issued a military-wide stand-down order to address the problem of extremism in the ranks.

Airman 1st Class Shawn McCaffrey, 28, is a well-known white nationalist who for years has hosted a racist and anti-Semitic podcast featuring friendly interviews with some of the most infamous fascists in America. He was also, at one time, a key member of the white nationalist group Identity Evropa. Evidence of his life as a white nationalist was only a Google search away, and he even got thrown off volunteering duties for Andrew Yang’s presidential campaign in 2019 due to his affiliations. The FBI was also aware of McCaffrey’s involvement in the far right, HuffPost has found.

Yet a video from late January, posted to Facebook by the Air Force’s Detroit recruitment center, appears to show McCaffrey solemnly swearing to “support and defend the Constitution” of the U.S. “against all enemies, foreign and domestic,” before shipping off to basic military training.

Air Force spokesperson Ann Stefanek said the military branch was not “aware of the allegations” that McCaffrey was a white nationalist before HuffPost reached out for this story. “Air Force officials are looking into it,” she said. The officials will likely now determine whether McCaffrey violated military rules regarding extremist activity and discrimination.

[The Magistrate]

1. There's Not Much I'm Tired Of More

Than investigations looking into things obvious as a slap in the face....

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. Investigations are great at creating the appearance of accountability and action, but the will to

actually bring change often just isn't there, especially in an organization with the institutional inertia of the U.S. military. Even when it comes to white supremacy.

[The Magistrate]

10. Like 'Blue-Ribbon' Commissions

The thing that gets right up my left nostril is the act of make-believe involved, the pretending there really is some doubt as to the facts. The man is what he is --- there's nothing to look into, and ought to be no delay in booting him out.

I agree there's tremendous inertia in the armed services, but there is also the saving grace of a functional top-down structure. Decisive orders from the leadership are obeyed. If the brass really does mean to root out seditious racists from the ranks, it will occur.

[intheflow]

12. I'd argue *especially* when it comes from white supremacy.

Last edited Sat Apr 10, 2021, 02:58 PM - Edit history (1)

Many enlisted people are descendants of Confederate families. And the Armed Forces themselves were established in large part by Southern white colonialist culture. I think it was NC, SC, GA (and maybe VA?) only signed the Declaration of Independence when they were allowed to keep kidnapping and enslaving Black people. Many parts of military are intentionally and inherently racist - racism being a byproduct of colonialism.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

13. Good point.

[DENVERPOPS]

29. No kidding

I am begining to look at the depth and breadth of corruption and felonious behavior that is disclosed more and more every day, and wonder if we aren't indeed living in a totally corrupted society..........

I suspect that we have only seen the tip of the iceberg, and we will soon see a tsunami of the massive corruption and illegal acts.
At this point, I see no end in sight.

Even if it mostly ends, at some point, I truthfully believe we will never see all the massive amounts of criminality that has gone on these past forty years, and especially since 2000 and definitely these past five years.

I think that we probably know about one ten thousandth, of what IS going on and what HAS gone on, and maybe we really don't want to know.

[msfiddlestix]

35. Right? You and Me Both. Sick and Tired of it. I'm in my 70's, "Looking into...." crickets. n/t

[Hekate]

53. It's exhausting, Sir

It really is disheartening.

[Scrivener7]

3. I first read that as "The Military Says it's Confronting Feminism." That seems more likely.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

4. Obviously I don't dig on the military being filled with White Nationalists ... it's scary really

But at the same time, that fact in itself is not illegal. It's a free country.

I'm not especially comfortable, philosophically, with the idea that people can be booted from service to the country solely because of their political beliefs.



Of course, if, once he's in there, he gets in a fight with a fellow soldier, perhaps a PoC ... that he picked because he's a racist asshole ... that seems like great grounds for a dishonorable.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

9. Each branch has its own prohibitions against participation in extremist groups and activities.

Hosting a white supremacy podcast seems like a pretty cut and dry violation.

[The Magistrate]

11. Racist Sedition, Sir, Is Not A Political Belief

Pretending it is is futile foolery. Striking contrarian postures can certainly be enjoyable, but there are times and matters in which it ought not be indulged.


"There's no soul so lonely as the dissenter at a non-conformists convention."

[stopdiggin]

23. sedition (racial or otherwise) aimed at the government

is clearly a political belief/action. Loudly declaring it isn't doesn't really alter the facts.

I think we'd be better off just acknowledging that there are certain personal and political beliefs (probably religious as well) that are just not a good fit for the armed services.

[The Magistrate]

26. It Is A Belief Outside Politics, Sir

A resolve to overthrow a political order cannot be part of politics within that political order. It is inimical to that political order, in just the way an infection is to a body.

I am well aware this can cut against revolutionary aspirations from any direction, still it remains the case. The degree to which any state allows seditionist and insurrectionist agitation is a measure of whether the state feels threatened by it. If the state does feel threatened by such activity, it will never treat it as political expression, nor should anyone expect it to. People who devote themselves to such activity need to be very clear about this.

[stopdiggin]

31. outside of a particular political order

does not mean bereft of political intent, Sir. And whether a state deigns to 'treat' it as political expression is hardly the measure of whether it meets that definition.

(I recognize you to be astute in these matters -- all the same I think you are descending here to a game of words and definition. The assertion that 'racist nationalism' does not represent political thought -- is frankly poppy-cock.)

[msfiddlestix]

37. By your definition, then Jan 6th INSURRECtION was merely a political expression of free speech

That INSURRECTION involved White Supremacist fully committed to Sedition.

That is an act of War, though they didn't cary fire arms, they did engage in war fare using an array of items which caused great harm, injury, and death. With full deliberation.

The Constitution doesn't give shelter and protection to insurrectionists engaged in death and destruction to our citizens and U.S. Congress.

Likewise the U.S. Military isn't obliged to train for combat enemies of the state. Foreign and Domestic.

[stopdiggin]

40. nonsense (and there is nothing 'merely' in any aspect

of this -- it is all deadly serious.) But to pretend that it was NOT political in origin and intent is obfuscation of the first order.

We're in perfect agreement that what happened on the 6th (or at least major portions of it) was insurrection and the Constitution does not give any protection for it. I argue likewise that the military is under no obligation to foster it. (in fact it would be the ultimate in foolishness to do so)

[msfiddlestix]

46. Thank you for the clarification.. I should have worded differently

the aspect of political origin. I'd argue (though it would hard for me to articulate exactly how I see it especially in legal context) the question of political origin if it is clearly ideologically anathema to the basis of our democracy and which cannot hold or exist with a military populated by pro authoritarian white supremacists.

It's sticky, sure. Especially given the fact one of the two major political parties gives succor to that ideology.

The issue is contradictory in one sense to me, because I'm old enough to remember the "America: Love it or Leave it" slogan thrown at anti-Vietnam activists. We were accused of being unpatriotic, "commie pinkos" etc. I am old to remember having to sign the Oath of Allegiance to America required to enroll in College. I took great offense to that at the time.

And now here I am after learning of a President's ties to Russian Oligarchs, and open adoration for despots and dictators from Saudi Arabia to the Philippines and beyond. I was aware since the invasion in Iraq we had Religious Extremists in our military, particularly the Air Force (White Nationalists/Dominionists) which has deeply troubled me for years.

In other words, in some sense it appears I've come to a 180 in my view of the responsibility of our institutions to adhere to the premise of our system of government. Which of course includes the Military, the Justice Dept., and Law enforcement agencies including Police Depts etc.

January 6th laid bare the fragility of our democracy to an extent I'm not sure we'll ever truly recover. I feel like it is completely broken. Damaged, perhaps beyond repair.

Freedom of Speech, cannot support the ideology of Religious or Political Cults any more than it protects shouting fire in a theater when there is no fire. In my view.

If it does, then we will be broken and a Fascists Authoritarian system for the near future, which will be extremely difficult to recover from.

[stopdiggin]

49. I support a really wide range of 'speech'

as an individual freedom. On the other hand, I have never understood speech to include attacking police officers (or indeed other forms of violence and destruction). And -- I further think the idea that our military must foster those that are inimical to our government -- is rank foolishness -- to the point of suicidal.

[msfiddlestix]

50. Isn't that what can be described of White Supremacy?

It is in my view.

[stopdiggin]

51. that, AND a large number of the gun wielding

crowd Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, 3 Percenters -- and a lot of the militia types. And none of them would be serving in a military that I would call reasonable or sound.

[msfiddlestix]

52. I'd say we're pretty much on the same page.

Don't know what was at issue anymore. maybe I misread your meaning, or intent or I'm just dense.

[The Magistrate]

38. There Are Only Particular Political Orders, Sir

Just as there are only particular insurrections. There is no generalized something that is 'politics' that can be appealed to for judgement independent of a particular political order.

If by 'politics' all you mean is the arrangement of civic affairs in some manner, one could own intent to overthrow current arrangements was a 'political' thought. But doing so says nothing of any useful meaning. Tyranny should replace Democracy is not a political dispute, any more than Socialism should replace Capitalism is. Both are propositions only violence can settle in the end.

States define the political order within their boundaries, and states defend themselves. There is no right to revolution, certainly none to success in attempting revolution. This is as true of revolutions I would support as of revolutions I would oppose.

[stopdiggin]

42. who said anything about 'rights' to revolution?, or appealed to

for 'judgement?' That's completely immaterial. I'm stating that your premise that a state must sanction something for it to be 'political' is pure nonsense. The effort to overthrow a political entity (just as to change it), is in fact political.

Are you perhaps imagining that I'm trying to legitimize Jan 6th or white nationalist thought? Do I think what happened at the Capital was legitimate? Not in your wildest dreams! Do I think it was political? Without any trace of doubt.

[The Magistrate]

43. It Is Not, Sir, State Sanction That Defines

It is whether a view, and action towards its realization, can be contained within a political system, or cannot be realized without its overthrow. The latter is insurrection, and cannot be part of the political process. By the simplest of definitions insurrection might be dubbed 'politics', and one might even rope in the saw that 'war is the continuation of politics by other means', dubbing in 'insurrection' for 'war', but neither line illuminates the political order through which communities govern themselves.

Nor do people intending insurrection consider their intentions and acts part of the political order they assail. They may try and make use of the mores of the political system whose overthrow they intend, in hopes of growing stronger without being looked at closely, and that 'legal' approach will be cast aside the moment the insurrectionists feel themselves capable of mastering the situation.

Persons intending to overthrow a political system will be resisted by the state which is the expression of that political system. It is rare that the state does not win. It certainly seems seditious racists have managed to convince the government here, most of it, anyway, that they are a danger to the state. Many are a little late in learning that, but the slow must be encouraged.

[stopdiggin]

48. I just heard an anouncement, that Elvis has left the building

You have a good day, Sir.
----- -----

[DENVERPOPS]

30. The potential

of weeding out racists of all flavors in the Military or Police would be a daunting task for generations ahead.
It is just that screwed up..............

[plimsoll]

34. So hypothetical case here.

White Xian nationalists, who believe that non-Xian’s, PoC, liberals cannot be “Real American(tm),” protecting the nation. In a crisis, where are the loyalties? Frankly I’m glad that the military didn’t wade in to the insurrection. I know the vets here say most of the military takes its role seriously, and I am grateful, but there’s no reason for us to say it can’t happen.

[superpatriotman]

5. Heres a solution

Mandatory civil service.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

7. Say more?

[superpatriotman]

36. Water down the crazy

Help young folks get a start. Good for the country, good for the soul.

[nakocal]

6. Extremism stand day day was a joke and nothing will happen because

They are not serious about extremism. If they were, they would immediately drop fox news from all of the TVs that are shown in government work spaces at all military facilities.

[2naSalit]

15. I think that was a madate made a few weeks ago.

[dutch777]

8. Don't know about the military now but even when I served eons ago, most commands handled this

For a northern boy, the culture of the army back in the day was surprisingly and decidedly southern hued with Confederate flags not hard to find. It seemed the officer corps was more from southern states than the average population distribution would suggest. All that said, I saw few instances of overt racism. Rather I saw a pretty universal adherence to the belief (by all ranks) that a unit has to work together seamlessly and to do so ongoing strife between the troops of any kind had to be eliminated. It is possible race played a role in who got put up for promotion and awards and recognition, but anything that was more day to day tension or issues that affected unit mission effectiveness was stomped on hard. In my four years, no matter where they came from and how they were raised, everyone got to the concept quickly that when the chips were down, we were trusting each other with our lives and that reality made you real color blind real fast. Now if you couldn't meet standards in your role or weren't paying attention or liked to shirk duties, that was a problem. And just peer pressure alone along those lines was evenly applied regardless of any other factors.

I am sure that the hard core that McCaffrey and his ilk represent are something I happily never encountered. And with the internet and the generally greater polarization of society the challenges today are more intense than during my service. But unless the military command and unit structure has lost its fine edge, I am confident that while these folks will always exist in the military just as they do in the larger society, there are more than adequate mechanisms to control them.

[Solly Mack]

14. My husband, retired Army, works for government, recently had one of the "new" workshops

for both active duty and civilian workers on extremism, and he was so angry when he got home.

Said it was a joke. That it bent over backwards to say if you think a white person is a racist (due to their words and actions) then you might be the problem, not the racist. Because the instructor spent a lot of time listing things you can't say to or say about co-workers, who are white. Kept stressing that you don't know they are a racist just because of "misunderstandings".

And he wasn't talking name-calling. He was talking about knocking Trump as racist because that implies his supporters are also racist. Shit along those lines.

This was after Trump was gone.

The instructor hit on other things - but my husband said it was clear the instructor was a Trump supporting racist. The instructor was active-duty military.

If you have racist instructors teaching these classes then those classes are useless.

And you can't help but think that's by design.

CYA, we have the paperwork in triplicate to prove we're doing something, kind of bullshit.

[2naSalit]

16. +1

[bluestarone]

18. Maybe needs to talk with someone that could do something about this?

Someone that he really really TRUSTS!

[Solly Mack]

20. He did.

[bluestarone]

21. ...

Awesome!!

[Kaleva]

19. A good article that talks about the training

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/03/25/army-extremism-training-gets-mixed-reviews-soldiers.html

[Solly Mack]

22. Definitely need a critical thinking class.

And I'm not surprised by those who felt better about the classes because of better instructors.

But the military is bad about a day long class that rushes people through without really giving the full attention a subject needs. Such doesn't encourage the long term thinking necessary.

Thank you for the article!

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

24. Somewhat related: a critique of the "sheep-dipping" training style

I've had many "sheep-dip" classes, to correct various biases, both sides of bribery, generally reactions to some bad behavior on the part of a company executive. So-and-so screwed up, let's train the whole company so we can wash our hands of any involvement.

https://blogs.developtraining.co.uk/blog/why-sheep-dipping-is-wrong-as-an-approach-to-training

[Solly Mack]

25. Thanks!

And, yeah.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

28. My favorite class was about why I shouldn't bribe foreigners.

As if I controlled vast untraceable company funds with which to convince someone in another country to do something.

Huh?

[Kaleva]

39. I think they'll work the kinks out as time goes on.

[johnthewoodworker]

17. If you think a Republican/Nazi, white supremacist would get kicked out of the military, you're wrong

[aeromanKC]

27. Time for a Code Red

[ancianita]

32. "Not aware," "investigations," "looking into it," "officials will likely determine whether"

The journalist class and public polls speak, but no one of the autocratic right is listening.

The America the military believe themselves to be is no longer the America that they are.
SECDEF Austin's stand down order, which ended April 5, doesn't seem to be getting results.
If the public can't prove it, we should at least know the reason(s) why.

[quakerboy]

33. It appears they have revived dadt

Except this time they prefer to wear earplugs during any potential telling

[jmowreader]

41. When I served, this is how we did it

I was going through Replacement (the first place you go when you get to most duty stations) at Fort Campbell and we had an Equal Opportunity class.

The leader was a very attractive Black woman. And at the time, there was a lot of Klan activity in the area.

We’re talking about all sorts of different things, and then she said, “Imagine that I was a White guy. And imagine I pulled my KKK membership card out of my wallet and plopped it down right in front of my battalion commander. What do you think the Army would do to me?”

“They’d kick your ass out of the Army immediately” was about the mildest thing anyone thought of. Firing squads, beatings and castration were mentioned several times.

Her answer: “They wouldn’t do anything.” No disgusted look on her face.

“You see, we don’t take action against you just for your beliefs. If we did, this room would be empty because everyone in here has beliefs that go against someone else. I know I was brought up with those beliefs; when I was a kid I just knew White people were the devil. And so did everyone I knew. If you act on those beliefs, we’ll come down on you hard...but keeping them to yourself, that’s just human nature.”

Having said that, running a white nationalist podcast definitely qualifies as acting on racist beliefs. I suspect he will be a former airman fairly quickly; not sure how the Air Force does it but in the Army they get either six months or until the end of your initial training to do a quickie discharge on people obviously wrong for the service.

[rockfordfile]

44. He should be removed. He seems to be another Timothy McVeigh

[Amishman]

45. They are probably having to walk a fine line with the 1st

Coming down on those who made threats is viable. Those who are simply bigots it harder as Matel v Tam unanimously affirmed hate speech is still protected by the first amendment.

[TigressDem]

47. Military needs to catch up with the real world. Have FBI level screenings and take racism seriously.

HOWEVER, much of military training DOES push racism.

When we fought in Vietnam, Germany, against Mexico..... the easiest way to ID the ENEMY was by race.


My Dad was in Korean Conflict and said he had to fight against racist tendencies.... it was drilled into them over and over again.

SO..... if recruits come pre-equipped with racism built in, could be the army sees it as a cost saving benefit, not a problem.


My Dad didn't act on any of those attitudes, but internally, he felt the effect of the training raise up inside of him.

His solution was to judge everyone he met on their actions, so no matter what color someone was, once they showed themselves to be good people, that was good enough for him.

He was more likely to mistrust a rich white guy because the way my Dad read the Constitution and Founding Father's intent, THOSE were the ones most likely to wreck the country. He died before ever seeing just how right he was about that.