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Wed Apr 7, 2021, 08:56 PM

Manchin says there is 'no circumstance' where he would vote to get rid of the filibuster in blow to

Manchin says there is ‘no circumstance’ where he would vote to get rid of the filibuster in blow to Biden agenda

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/manchin-filibuster-biden/2021/04/07/03635ab2-97fd-11eb-b28d-bfa7bb5cb2a5_story.html

By Colby Itkowitz at the Washington Post

April 7, 2021 at 8:29 p.m. EDT

"SNIP......

Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin III said Wednesday that under no circumstances would he vote to eliminate the legislative filibuster in his most definitive statement yet on the topic, dealing a blow to Democrats’ hopes of pushing major aspects of President Biden’s agenda through Congress.

The West Virginia senator also suggested in an op-ed published in The Washington Post, that he would be opposed to using the budget reconcilaton process, under which certain legislation requires only a majority vote, again to circumvent the filibuster, an avenue Senate Democrats have considered for passing Biden’s ambitious infrastructure package.

“There is no circumstance in which I will vote to eliminate or weaken the filibuster,” Manchin wrote. “The time has come to end these political games, and to usher a new era of bipartisanship where we find common ground on the major policy debates facing our nation.”

Even with all 50 Democrats in agreement, most legislation requires 60 votes to stop a filibuster. Democrats argue that while the filibuster used to be employed sparingly, it’s now used for any issue where there is partisan disagreement.

......SNIP"

47 replies, 1291 views

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Arrow 47 replies Author Time Post
Reply Manchin says there is 'no circumstance' where he would vote to get rid of the filibuster in blow to (Original post)
applegrove Apr 7 OP
applegrove Apr 7 #1
Timewas Apr 7 #2
WarGamer Apr 7 #17
Crunchy Frog Apr 7 #39
PortTack Apr 8 #47
Nexus2 Apr 7 #22
FBaggins Apr 7 #3
rickyhall Apr 7 #4
WarGamer Apr 7 #18
Carlitos Brigante Apr 7 #5
msongs Apr 7 #6
FBaggins Apr 7 #15
WarGamer Apr 7 #19
Bettie Apr 7 #33
FBaggins Apr 7 #34
Bettie Apr 7 #35
PufPuf23 Apr 8 #46
magicarpet Apr 7 #7
VarryOn Apr 7 #29
Goodheart Apr 7 #8
Carlitos Brigante Apr 7 #9
Celerity Apr 7 #10
applegrove Apr 7 #11
FBaggins Apr 7 #16
Celerity Apr 7 #24
pwb Apr 7 #12
Celerity Apr 7 #14
WarGamer Apr 7 #20
Celerity Apr 7 #30
Ka-Dinh Oy Apr 7 #13
WarGamer Apr 7 #21
Celerity Apr 7 #28
FBaggins Apr 7 #23
dalton99a Apr 7 #25
vercetti2021 Apr 7 #26
Fiendish Thingy Apr 8 #44
Fiendish Thingy Apr 8 #45
Bettie Apr 7 #27
Ferrets are Cool Apr 7 #31
Celerity Apr 7 #32
misanthrope Apr 7 #36
A HERETIC I AM Apr 7 #37
Crunchy Frog Apr 7 #38
moondust Apr 7 #40
hydrolastic Apr 7 #42
moondust Apr 8 #43
BGBD Apr 7 #41

Response to applegrove (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 08:59 PM

1. Some intellectual needs to give him a quick and dirty brief on populists,

psychopaths, fascism and the GOP. He doesn't seem to know there is a war in america and on democracy and the GOP started it 50 years ago and Democrats just woke to it. What committees is he on?

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Response to applegrove (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 09:01 PM

2. Really

He doesn't care about anything or anybody but himself

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Response to Timewas (Reply #2)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 09:43 PM

17. I'd say he represents his constituents.

Don't understand people who expect Manchin to vote like Senator Sanders.

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #17)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:33 PM

39. I haven't seen any such people myself. I guess maybe you have.

His constituents don't want investment in infrastructure in their state?

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #17)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 01:03 AM

47. Actually the WV gov is for a $15 minimum wage among their things and I'm sure that comes from

The ppl of WV.

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Response to Timewas (Reply #2)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 10:01 PM

22. A perfect GOPer

He's going to switch I'd bet a decent sum on it, its just a matter of time.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 09:05 PM

3. He chairs the Energy committee

He's also on Appropriations, Armed Services, and Veterans Affairs... and a member of Schumer's senate leadership team.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 09:07 PM

4. Must be some way to get thru to that bullheaded dumbass. The answer seems so obvious.

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Response to rickyhall (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 09:45 PM

18. His constituents voted 70-30 for Trump

Do I need to get out the white board?

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 09:07 PM

5. He'll need a bigger bribe. If anyone has a price, it's definitely

the hogs in this family......

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 09:08 PM

6. how soon before ol joe manchin flips to the repubs? nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #6)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 09:36 PM

15. I guess it depends...

... how many more "if he doesn't vote with us 100% of the time he might as well be a republican" claims will he see?

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #15)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 09:45 PM

19. yup...

Few seem to understand that Manchin in one phone call away from making Mitch Majority leader.

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #15)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 10:54 PM

33. He is actively trying to hamstring our party

the party he says he is part of.

Either he is profoundly stupid (which is the case is he actually believes we will EVER get a single Republican vote on anything) or he's trying to destroy the party he claims to belong to.

Which is it? I sure don't know.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #33)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:01 PM

34. No he isn't

If he were... you would have already read “I didn’t leave the Democratic Party... they left me” in the papers.

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #34)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:16 PM

35. Please then, do tell how

this will bring about that "new era of bipartisanship" the only way that happens is if Democrats capitulate entirely and I don't see that happening.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #33)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 12:53 AM

46. There is a Third Way (really) that Manchin is taking.

Manchin is going for the brass ring. The present is an unexpected massive opportunity for Manchin to leverage his own political career and personal interests (at least that his perception, expect the outcome is Manchin will not benefit and the nation and Biden administration will pay the price, hopefully not too much cost).

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 09:09 PM

7. Manchin is loving the limelight,...

... where his opinion and vote is so pivotable as to whether democracy functions or not or how successful Biden's Presidency will be.

If Joe says no,... well you might as well just forget it. Bipartisanship is a fairytale with this group of ReThug Fascists. They have weaponized the filibuster,.. it needs to be tossed.

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Response to magicarpet (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 10:38 PM

29. Exactly. He's our John McCain. Nt

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 09:10 PM

8. A new era of bipartisanship?

The man is a fool.

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 09:11 PM

9. He's not. He just thinks we are...... nt

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 09:12 PM

10. so he now is now ruling out even MODIFICATIONS???!!

“There is no circumstance in which I will vote to eliminate or weaken the filibuster,” Manchin wrote. “The time has come to end these political games, and to usher a new era of bipartisanship where we find common ground on the major policy debates facing our nation.”


Also, THIS

The time has come to end these political games, and to usher a new era of bipartisanship where we find common ground on the major policy debates facing our nation


is a bloody JOKE

As if we are ones playing the fucking games and as if the death cult/neo nazi goon squad known as the Republican party is going to all of sudden stop almost 60 years (starting in 1963 and the Goldwater run) of outright RW war with us, the last 27 of which have been full fucking scorched earth (1994 Gingrich Revolution onward).

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Response to Celerity (Reply #10)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 09:20 PM

11. +1

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Response to Celerity (Reply #10)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 09:41 PM

16. That isn't really a change in his position

He voted against the previous changes and has said all along that he doesn't support changing the rule. A handful of journalists have been trying to hint that surely he would be open to restricting the use of the filibuster in this really really important scenario (pick any of several) or if republicans were clearly obstructing something important.

It was really just wishful thinking. Just think of the large number of such speculations after he said "what part of 'never' don't you understand??"

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #16)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 10:24 PM

24. Months ago he did say he might be open to some modifications, but then (before this)

started to say NOPE, NEVER to each one.

The 41 votes needed to sustain reform? NO.

The possibility of a return to an actual fully talking filibuster? NO (he said he would not five up the 60 vote threshold there).

Those are the two most obvious reforms that could actual lead to a vote on a filibustered bill.

For my troubles of simply having the desire to know what mods he WOULD accept, I was attacked by a swarm of 'how dare you question our leaders' types, some the them a few weeks old (one a few days old) and swinging like 10, 15 year veterans of DU. It was madness. Apparently some refuse to allow even a system-related question.

The overarching tenor and tone from this was if Schumer says 'failure is not an option' (not to limit it to Schumer or blame him at all) that means that the bills will magically pass, even as one by one, all possible modifications that actually could do that are ripped off the table by Manchin and Sinema (who actually wants a 60 vote threshold on ALL Senate business, and to pull back the now existing exceptions, and perhaps even do away (or straightjacket it even more at least, I think her descriptive was having a more robust Byrd Rule) with reconciliation altogether as well, so is even more radical than Manchin, just not as mic-chasing).

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 09:21 PM

12. What will you say Joe when the pukes do away with the filibuster?

First chance they get. Do you think they will have a spoiler Joe like you? No.

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Response to pwb (Reply #12)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 09:31 PM

14. unless they are 100% sure of a perm majority, they will not do away with it, it helps them and fucks

us in most cases.

The filibuster hurts only Senate Democrats -- and Mitch McConnell knows that. The numbers don't lie.

My own add - Sinema wants a 60 vote threshold on EVERY legislative action!. Not joking.



https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/filibuster-hurts-only-senate-democrats-mitch-mcconnell-knows-n1255787

snip

Cutting off debate in the Senate so legislation can be voted on is done through a procedure called "cloture," which requires three-fifths of the Senate — or 60 votes — to pass. I went through the Senate's cloture votes for the last dozen years from the 109th Congress until now, tracking how many of them failed because they didn't hit 60 votes. It's not a perfect method of tracking filibusters, but it's as close as we can get. It's clear that Republicans have been much more willing — and able — to tangle up the Senate's proceedings than Democrats. More important, the filibuster was almost no impediment to Republican goals in the Senate during the Trump administration. Until 2007, the number of cloture votes taken every year was relatively low, as the Senate's use of unanimous consent agreements skipped the need to round up supporters. While a lot of the cloture motions did fail, it was still rare to jump that hurdle at all — and even then, a lot of the motions were still agreed to through unanimous consent. That changed when Democrats took control of Congress in 2007 and McConnell first became minority leader. The number of cloture motions filed doubled compared to the previous year, from 68 to 139.

Things only got more dire as the Obama administration kicked off in 2009, with Democrats in control of the House, the Senate and the White House. Of the 91 cloture votes taken during the first two years of President Barack Obama's first term, 28 — or 30 percent — failed. All but three failed despite having majority support. The next Congress was much worse after the GOP took control of the House: McConnell's minority blocked 43 percent of all cloture votes taken from passing. Things were looking to be on the same course at the start of Obama's second term. By November 2013, 27 percent of cloture votes had failed even though they had majority support. After months of simmering outrage over blocked nominees grew, Senate Democrats triggered the so-called nuclear option, dropping the number of votes needed for cloture to a majority for most presidential nominees, including Cabinet positions and judgeships. The next year, Republicans took over the Senate with Obama still in office. By pure numbers, the use of the filibuster rules skyrocketed under the Democratic minority: 63 of 123 cloture votes failed, or 51 percent. But there's a catch: Nothing that was being voted on was covered by the new filibuster rules. McConnell had almost entirely stopped bringing Obama's judicial nominees to the floor, including Supreme Court nominee Merrick Garland.

McConnell defended the filibuster on the Senate floor last week, reminding his counterparts of their dependence on it during President Donald Trump's term. "Democrats used it constantly, as they had every right to," he said. "They were happy to insist on a 60-vote threshold for practically every measure or bill I took up." Except, if anything, use of the filibuster plummeted those four years. There are two main reasons: First, and foremost, the amount of in-party squabbling during the Trump years prevented any sort of coordinated legislative push from materializing. Second, there wasn't actually all that much the Republicans wanted that needed to get past the filibuster in its reduced state after the 2013 rule change. McConnell's strategy of withholding federal judgeships from Obama nominees paid off in spades, letting him spend four years stuffing the courts with conservatives. And when Trump's first Supreme Court nominee, Neil Gorsuch, was filibustered, McConnell didn't hesitate to change the rules again. Trump's more controversial nominees also sailed to confirmation without any Democratic votes. Legislatively, there were only two things Republicans really wanted: tax cuts and repeal of Obamacare. The Trump tax cuts they managed through budget reconciliation, a process that allows budget bills to pass through the Senate with just a majority vote.

Republicans tried to do the same for health care in 2017 to avoid the filibuster, failing only during the final vote, when Sen. John McCain's "no" vote denied them a majority. The repeal wouldn't have gone through even if the filibuster had already been in the grave. As a result, the number of successful filibusters plummeted: Over the last four years, an average of 7 percent of all cloture motions failed. In the last Congress, 298 cloture votes were taken, a record. Only 26 failed. Almost all of the votes that passed were on nominees to the federal bench or the executive branch. In fact, if you stripped out the nominations considered in the first two years of Trump's term, the rate of failure would be closer to 15 percent — but on only 70 total votes. There just wasn't all that much for Democrats to get in the way of with the filibuster, which is why we didn't hear much complaining from Republicans. Today's Democrats aren't in the same boat. Almost all of the big-ticket items President Joe Biden wants to move forward require both houses of Congress to agree. And given McConnell's previous success in smothering Obama's agenda for political gain, his warnings about the lack of "concern and comity" that Democrats are trying to usher in ring hollow. In actuality, his warnings of "wait until you're in the minority again" shouldn't inspire concern from Democrats. So long as it applies only to legislation, the filibuster is a Republicans-only weapon. There's nothing left, it seems, for the GOP to fear from it — aside from its eventual demise.

snip

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Response to pwb (Reply #12)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 09:46 PM

20. Trump urged McConnell to dump it in 2017

He refused.

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #20)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 10:39 PM

30. because the filibuster hurts us by far more than it does the Rethugs

The filibuster hurts only Senate Democrats -- and Mitch McConnell knows that. The numbers don't lie.

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100215313613#post14

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 09:31 PM

13. I know we are not supposed to say negative things about Democrats here but

when it comes to Manchin I am saying it all.

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Response to Ka-Dinh Oy (Reply #13)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 09:47 PM

21. He's the one thing keeping DEMS in control of Congress.

I'm glad he's there rather than a (R)

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #21)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 10:35 PM

28. that is zero excuse for his actions now

He doesn't run again for over 3 and a half years (IF he even runs again), and even then he is so not a shoe-in by any stretch. He barely won in the massive Blue wave in 2018, and he is being outflanked (confirmed by an actual WV voter on here) on both the left AND the right by Justice. Meanwhile, he is on track to just fuck us so hard (IF he actually does what he claims he will do) nationally, especially if he ends up blocking all these voters rights bills).

We are being held hostage in 2021 and 2022 (and if we lose the House and/or the Senate in 2022 it truly is all over for Biden's first term in terms of big legislation) all for a speculative chance for one Senator in 2024, and many of the things he may well block not only hurt the nation, but more specifically hurt his own state and his own voters.

If Sanders or another Senator on the leftward edge was playing these types of obstructionist games, the howls for their head on a pike here would be deafening here.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 10:08 PM

23. His statement goes beyond the filibuster

"If the filibuster is eliminated or budget reconciliation becomes the norm, a new and dangerous precedent will be set to pass sweeping, partisan legislation that changes the direction of our nation every time there is a change in political control. The consequences will be profound — our nation may never see stable governing again."

This appears to shoot down Schumer's "big win" in getting the Senate parliamentarian to sign off on using reconciliation more than once per budget year.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 10:28 PM

25. POS is intoxicated with his veto power over Democrats.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 10:31 PM

26. Fuck this guy!

Hes gonna be solely responsible for voting rights being in jeopardy

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Response to vercetti2021 (Reply #26)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 12:35 AM

44. +1000! 🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕

He could singlehandedly cause Dems to lose their majorities for a decade or more, and set up the GOP to overturn the 2024 presidential election and install their candidate.

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Response to vercetti2021 (Reply #26)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 12:35 AM

45. +1000! 🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕

He could singlehandedly cause Dems to lose their majorities for a decade or more, and set up the GOP to overturn the 2024 presidential election and install their candidate.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 10:34 PM

27. Well, I'd like to hear his plan for dragging the other side into this

fucking "new era of bipartisanship", because Democrats aren't the ones playing "political games".

Will now watch for his squad of defenders to come in and talk about how wonderful he is.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #27)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 10:40 PM

31. This

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Response to Bettie (Reply #27)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 10:48 PM

32. maybe he cooked one up with Susan Collins when he endorsed her and helped her win against Gideon

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:20 PM

36. Times like this are when you miss LBJ

Someone who had no compunction about leaning on folks like Manchin with whatever it took to get things done.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:21 PM

37. There's never a 2X4 around when you need one

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:29 PM

38. Gosh, what a great guy!

I'm sure I'll think about him a lot when we have fascism here because Biden was unable to protect the rights of people to vote, since we couldn't find "common ground" with the Fascist Party on that issue.

Mitch must be very happy right now.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:36 PM

40. Holding the door open

for the fascists.

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Response to moondust (Reply #40)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:49 PM

42. is it Better to have a Dem keep Mitch out of the majority leader position

Or a small group of R's in virginia determine what the whole nation worth of democrats vote on. Seems only marginally better. Manchin is a Democrat. This whole business of being a partial Democrat to appease some of his constituents is abhorent. Hydro

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Response to hydrolastic (Reply #42)

Thu Apr 8, 2021, 12:22 AM

43. No question

that it's far better to keep the turtle out of the driver's seat. But Manchin doesn't seem to have a very good understanding of the political situation or the potentially devastating consequences of his obstructionism for his state, his voters, the rest of the country, and even for the rest of the "free world."

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Wed Apr 7, 2021, 11:47 PM

41. Some of you

Would fit in well with MAGA.

Somebody doesn't toe the line and they are a traitor. Surprised you haven't called on him to be jailed or executed yet.

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