Mon Apr 5, 2021, 06:22 PM
NotANeocon (410 posts)
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, "
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
Despite the 1st there seems to have been a religion surreptitiously formed this year. I've been hearing about "sacred ground" and "sacred ideas" (like democracy) being attacked - particularly since 1/6/21. Have our journalists run out of words like "beloved, respected, archival, historic, peoples place, etc" just to name a few, when speaking of government buildings. For a nation without an established religion there seem to be a lot of genuflecting and hands over heart along with other non-secular customs to put the lie to that claim.
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18 replies, 1958 views
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Author | Time | Post |
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NotANeocon | Apr 2021 | OP |
Crunchy Frog | Apr 2021 | #1 | |
Ocelot II | Apr 2021 | #2 | |
NotANeocon | Apr 2021 | #3 | |
Ocelot II | Apr 2021 | #4 | |
NotANeocon | Apr 2021 | #8 | |
tblue37 | Apr 2021 | #17 | |
Sympthsical | Apr 2021 | #12 | |
NotANeocon | Apr 2021 | #13 | |
Claire Oh Nette | Apr 2021 | #15 | |
Sympthsical | Apr 2021 | #16 | |
tritsofme | Apr 2021 | #5 | |
Beastly Boy | Apr 2021 | #6 | |
NotANeocon | Apr 2021 | #7 | |
Beastly Boy | Apr 2021 | #9 | |
rsdsharp | Apr 2021 | #10 | |
NotANeocon | Apr 2021 | #11 | |
Ms. Toad | Apr 2021 | #14 | |
jcgoldie | Apr 2021 | #18 |
Response to NotANeocon (Original post)
Mon Apr 5, 2021, 06:27 PM
Crunchy Frog (26,321 posts)
1. Trashing. nt
Response to NotANeocon (Original post)
Mon Apr 5, 2021, 06:27 PM
Ocelot II (108,755 posts)
2. "Sacred" doesn't necessarily refer to something with religious meaning.
Other dictionary definitions of the word are "entitled to reverence and respect" and "highly valued and important." https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sacred So that use of the word to apply to secular concepts like democracy is entirely appropriate.
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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #2)
Mon Apr 5, 2021, 06:35 PM
NotANeocon (410 posts)
3. You think so?
I see it as ignorant, lazy, and vocabulary challenged because the religious continually overrides the secular in the country "without established religion".
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Response to NotANeocon (Reply #3)
Mon Apr 5, 2021, 06:39 PM
Ocelot II (108,755 posts)
4. I didn't write the dictionary. Those are common and accepted usages
and I see no nefarious connection with religion in this respect. There are bigger fish to fry re: religion interfering in secular society.
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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #4)
Mon Apr 5, 2021, 07:08 PM
NotANeocon (410 posts)
8. Of course there are bigger fish
But don't ignore the camel's nose inside the tent because you know what that leads to.
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Response to NotANeocon (Reply #8)
Mon Apr 5, 2021, 10:44 PM
tblue37 (59,375 posts)
17. It leads to camel snot all over everything.
Response to NotANeocon (Reply #3)
Mon Apr 5, 2021, 08:28 PM
Sympthsical (6,749 posts)
12. Sacred has always had a secular use in modern English
It really just means revered, important, respected.
Seems an odd bugaboo to have. Our democracy should be sacred. That's why we have to fight so hard to keep it. |
Response to Sympthsical (Reply #12)
Mon Apr 5, 2021, 08:47 PM
NotANeocon (410 posts)
13. Hmmm
It really just means revered, important, respected.
Actually it does'nt. check the etymology. It refers to something set apart for god or the gods. Our democracy should be sacred So treat it like sky fairies and superstitions? I think such a concept deserves more universal admiration and acceptance. |
Response to NotANeocon (Reply #13)
Mon Apr 5, 2021, 08:59 PM
Claire Oh Nette (2,636 posts)
15. sacred does not sacrosant
DC is sacred ground *for American Democracy* just like Augusta is for golfers. The highest and most revered, not just religious based.
There are other words for that distinction. I'd argue when Biden and Harris lit up the Reflection Pool the night before inauguration in remembrance of the 300,000 dead from covid, they sanctified the Capitol grounds by making it a memorial, not a church. |
Response to NotANeocon (Reply #13)
Mon Apr 5, 2021, 09:05 PM
Sympthsical (6,749 posts)
16. You're reading this in a very strange way
I mean, you're just blatantly denying that the word has been use in a secular context for a very long time.
I don't know what to say to that. You're wrong? |
Response to NotANeocon (Original post)
Mon Apr 5, 2021, 06:46 PM
tritsofme (15,937 posts)
5. How does using the word "sacred" or putting your hand over your heart at an appropriate time
constitute an establishment of religion? What an incredibly silly thread.
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Response to NotANeocon (Original post)
Mon Apr 5, 2021, 06:48 PM
Beastly Boy (6,212 posts)
6. You may be familiar with a popular Soviet era revolutionary song titled "The Warszawyanka"
If a refresher is needed, here is an excerpt:
Но мы подымем гордо и смело Знамя борьбы за рабочее дело, Знамя великой борьбы всех народов За лучший мир, за святую свободу. На бой кровавый, Святой и правый Марш, марш вперед, Рабочий народ. Which roughly translates to: But we will rise proudly and boldly The banner of the struggle for the labor cause, Banner of the great struggle of all peoples For a better world, for sacred freedom. To the bloody battle, Holy and righteous March, march forward Working people. So you can see that words like "sacred", "holy" and "righteous" are not necessarily surreptitiously religious. Not even in their Google Translate English version. |
Response to Beastly Boy (Reply #6)
Mon Apr 5, 2021, 07:02 PM
NotANeocon (410 posts)
7. Depends who translates -
and also who it is translated for.
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Response to NotANeocon (Reply #7)
Mon Apr 5, 2021, 07:18 PM
Beastly Boy (6,212 posts)
9. From Polish to Russian or from Russian to English?
The latter, as I mentioned, was done by Google Translate.
But translatory nuances, disputable or not, are not my point. My point is that one can find words in any language that, being originally used in the context of a religion, are not exclusive to it. |
Response to NotANeocon (Original post)
Mon Apr 5, 2021, 08:13 PM
rsdsharp (7,373 posts)
10. What law did Congress pass, and the President sign
establishing a religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
Your complaint seems to be directed at the use of certain words by journalists, and actions by private citizens. Neither of those groups are covered by that aspect of the First Amendment, nor any other for that matter. The First Amendment prohibits conduct by the government. |
Response to rsdsharp (Reply #10)
Mon Apr 5, 2021, 08:25 PM
NotANeocon (410 posts)
11. Precisely!
Just like the 10 recommendations - writing constitutional suggestions has no effect if the ho polloi ignore them -
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Response to rsdsharp (Reply #10)
Mon Apr 5, 2021, 08:50 PM
Ms. Toad (31,773 posts)
14. Thank you.
I was restraining my itchy typing fingers until I skimmed the responses to see if anyone else had a clue about the 1st amendment.
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