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Fri Apr 2, 2021, 07:33 PM

I have rightly been called out by a lady on my Facebook group.

She objected to my saying Gaetz had sex with underage girls. She gently stated that this is understating that he had sex with children. I have promised to do better. I think she was correct.

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Reply I have rightly been called out by a lady on my Facebook group. (Original post)
gibraltar72 Apr 2 OP
Haggard Celine Apr 2 #1
WhiteTara Apr 2 #7
Haggard Celine Apr 2 #8
WhiteTara Apr 3 #9
Haggard Celine Apr 3 #10
WhiteTara Apr 3 #11
Haggard Celine Apr 3 #14
msongs Apr 2 #2
LizBeth Apr 2 #3
NH Ethylene Apr 2 #4
70sEraVet Apr 2 #5
NotANeocon Apr 2 #6
WhiteTara Apr 3 #12
NotANeocon Apr 3 #15
Silent3 Apr 5 #23
meadowlander Apr 5 #24
krispos42 Apr 3 #13
NotANeocon Apr 3 #16
LisaL Apr 3 #17
krispos42 Apr 5 #21
greenjar_01 Apr 3 #18
krispos42 Apr 5 #22
Raine Apr 3 #19
JI7 Apr 3 #20

Response to gibraltar72 (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 07:42 PM

1. I think you were closer to being right.

A 17 year old isn't a child, bit I don't know what other nasty shit is going to come out, so I won't say he's exactly innocent of messing around with kids. But so far, he's being accused of messing with underage people, which is different than saying children.

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Response to Haggard Celine (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 11:01 PM

7. bullshit

a 17-year-old girl is a child and when someone in Gaetz's position takes advantage of her youth and vulnerability, that is RAPE.
Even if he doesn't beat her and do other violent things, it is still RAPE.

I'm disappointed in your cavalier attitude to a young young, not woman, being degraded for ADULT men's pleasure is disgusting.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #7)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 11:22 PM

8. I agree that he is taking advantage

of his position and he shouldn't be doing it and should be held accountable, I just don't think a 17 year old is a child. A 17 year old isn't as innocent and helpless as a 7 year old and there's really no comparison. It should be illegal to have sex with underage women, but they aren't children, they just aren't, and it's wrong to mess around with underage people, but it's not the same as molesting a little boy or girl. That's all I'm saying.

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Response to Haggard Celine (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 3, 2021, 09:43 AM

9. I can assure that a 17 year old girl

is NOT a woman. I was a 17-year-old girl and even though my body form was exquisite, I was definitely a child, curious, but still a child.

I didn't check your profile, but I'm assuming you are male by your response. I'm still calling your answer bullshit. It almost sounds like you have experience.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #9)

Sat Apr 3, 2021, 10:02 AM

10. Oh, please, I'm gay.

I've never touched any woman who didn't throw herself at me, never anyone underage. And as far as men go, I like guys my own age. When I was a boy, I liked other boys, but I grew out of that. Can't we disagree over this without accusing each other of crimes?

I agree that it's statutory rape, at least in a lot of states, for Gaetz to do what it appears he did. He should be punished for that. The only difference between me and you is that I don't call 17 year olds children. They don't like to be called children and they really aren't.

My mother got married when she was 16, as have a lot of mothers, some younger than that. She might not have been a grown woman yet, but she definitely wasn't A child. I don't recommend people to get married at that age, but sometimes, like my grandparents thought, you have to let what's going to happen, happen. And calling 17 year olds children when they're old enough to consent in a lot of states and old enough to marry in some states just isn't accurate.

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Response to Haggard Celine (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 3, 2021, 10:12 AM

11. so a 17 year old boy is fair game too?

so when the female bleeds, she's an adult in your book. Good to know.

My beloved's entire sexual life was ruined by the man who decided he was old enough.
Thank you for your caveat that it's at least statutory rape.

I spent 10 years as a CASA and I have a very jaded opinion of people who think children are old enough to be exploited for their personal sexual pleasure. I found that most of the deniers were perps. I apologize for letting old thought patterns judge your behaviors.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #11)

Sat Apr 3, 2021, 10:25 AM

14. It's not pretty, but that's our culture.

I don't think it's good for someone who is a minor to have experiences with someone who is much older. If they're close to the same age and they're discovering things together, that's one thing, but for a 30 year old to be dating a 17 year old? Yeah, that's icky and that's molestation. I think most of us have sexual experiences before we're 17, some good, some harmful, but having someone touch you before you're even aware of what sex is, that's A worse crime to me than messing around with a 17 year old, and that's all I was saying.

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Response to gibraltar72 (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 07:49 PM

2. do u know for a fact he did? nt

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Response to gibraltar72 (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 07:49 PM

3. Thank you for listening.

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Response to gibraltar72 (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 07:51 PM

4. Technically she is correct.

And many have pointed out that if they are underage that it is rape, not consensual sex.

I personally think that grouping sex with a 17-year old in with the rape of a 5-year-old (for example) acts to dilute the horror of the rape of young children, and it should be differentiated in some way.

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Response to gibraltar72 (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 07:57 PM

5. Your post reminded me of something the Gaetz said in an interview with Carlson;

"The New York Times is running a story that I have traveled with a 17-year-old woman, and that is verifiably false...."
https://www.vox.com/2021/3/31/22359953/matt-gaetz-tucker-carlson-interview-sex-trafficking-allegations

It struck me, because THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS A 17-YEAR-OLD WOMAN!

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Response to gibraltar72 (Original post)

Fri Apr 2, 2021, 09:51 PM

6. Brits use the "Rule of 7"

From the 1st to 7th year juveniles are not capable of making decisions for themselves.

Juveniles in the 7th to 14th year possibly could make decisions for themselves but probably should not.

14th to 21st years they probably should make decisions for themselves but some are not ready yet.

Essentially youths 14 - 21 are considered young women or men.

This is why in Britain and Canada eg. a 14 yo can approve of hir own medical procedures.

At 17 Gaetz was in the company of a competent young woman capable of making her own decisions and leading her own life - unless proof to the contrary is presented. As far as the legal status of the liason{s} in the USA particularly due to political games "the law is a ass".

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Response to NotANeocon (Reply #6)

Sat Apr 3, 2021, 10:13 AM

12. we're not Brits.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #12)

Sat Apr 3, 2021, 07:14 PM

15. And are no where near as wise!

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Response to NotANeocon (Reply #6)

Mon Apr 5, 2021, 12:39 AM

23. While I personally want Gaetz to face as much shit as possible...

...it is indeed absurd to act as if a 17 year-old is just as much a child as a 7 year old, and that some black-and-white moral line is magically crossed at 18.

It can, of course, be a black-and-white legal issue, because the law has to draw the line somewhere. And Gaetz behavior was just sleazy anyway, even with an older girl or woman.

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Response to NotANeocon (Reply #6)

Mon Apr 5, 2021, 01:30 AM

24. Do you have any source for that?

I've lived in England, Ireland and New Zealand for years and have never heard of anything like that. The drinking age is younger (16 and sometimes younger if the parents are buying), but certainly a 14 year old can't legally marry or have sex with someone over the age of 18 in any of those countries. The age of consent is 16 or 17.

I have heard of the "half your age plus seven rule" as the minimum acceptable dating age. So for Matt Gaetz that would be 24 - still too old for Nestor.

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Response to gibraltar72 (Original post)

Sat Apr 3, 2021, 10:15 AM

13. I'm not going to dilute molesting prepubescent children...

...by rolling pubescent teenagers into the definition.

Yeah, it's a crime, but it's neither molestation or violent sexual assault.

17 is different from 7. Human sexual and emotional maturity isn't age-based, nor is it binary. It's a spectrum, like most stages of human development. State laws vary on this issue as a reflection of this complexity.

If Gaetz was screwing around with a 17-year-old, that's relatively minor. If he's fucking a 7-year-old... Execution.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #13)

Sat Apr 3, 2021, 07:16 PM

16. +100

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #13)

Sat Apr 3, 2021, 07:18 PM

17. Not relatively minor as far as the law is concerned.

He could be looking at a lot of prison time, if true.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #17)

Mon Apr 5, 2021, 12:07 AM

21. For the child trafficking and prostitution, yeah.

If was just boinking a 17-year-old I don't think it would be that much. Turning it into prostitution and crossing state line, well, that's how you go into the Federal Judicial Bonus Round, where the jail time can triple and the REAL criminals go!

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #13)

Sat Apr 3, 2021, 08:31 PM

18. I don't think it's relatively minor for a 35 year old to have sex with a 17 year old

It's against the law in most states, and most people would view it as morally wrong.

That said, much of the insistence that a 17 year old is functionally the same as a 7 year old for the purpose of judgment is just patently silly. Most people on this very board had engaged in consensual sexual activity of some kind by the time they were 17. It's manifestly different, and is recognized as different by any experts in the area.

Of course it's illegal, and for good reason, for a grown adult beyond some age gap to engage in sexual activity with adolescents. It's galling and disgusting because the power differential is so marked and even basic brain development is different. It's illegal because we know it's rife for abuse. But pretending that 17 year old aren't having sex consensually all the time and are incapable of consent is just dumb, and the kind of shit that makes people roll their eyes at liberal dogma. It runs against the basic life experience of nearly everyone on this board.

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Response to greenjar_01 (Reply #18)

Mon Apr 5, 2021, 12:12 AM

22. Exactly

It's very morally questionable even without the "crossing state lines" and "prostitution" aspects of this particular case.

But this act alone is not "10 years in prison" worthy. Okay, give him 364 days in prison for this.

Give him the 10 years for the prostitution and trafficking charges!

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #13)

Sat Apr 3, 2021, 09:37 PM

19. Agree. nt

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Response to gibraltar72 (Original post)

Sat Apr 3, 2021, 09:40 PM

20. These are arguments just to have arguments

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