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White Fox

(69 posts)
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 02:54 PM Feb 2021

Kamala Harris Could Deliver $15 Minimum Wage If Democrats Really Wanted It

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Now, Democrats have to choose between respecting some arcane Senate semi-rules and ensuring more than a million working Americans would no longer literally go hungry, and they seem, somehow, poised to pick the former.

There are multiple options available to Biden if he is truly committed to the idea that, as he said in his statement on the ruling, “no one in this country should work full time and live in poverty.”

For one thing, the president could just ask Kamala Harris, the president of the Senate, to overrule the parliamentarian. In fact, one former parliamentarian has said it’s entirely at the VP’s discretion to listen to MacDonough on a ruling like this one or not. And there is ample historical precedent for not listening to the parliamentarian — as Slate reports, “Vice President Hubert Humphrey routinely ignored his parliamentarian’s advice.”

[link:https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/democrats-15-dollar-minimum-wage-vp-harris-senate-1132695/|
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Kamala Harris Could Deliver $15 Minimum Wage If Democrats Really Wanted It (Original Post) White Fox Feb 2021 OP
She can over rule it and then Manchin and Senema bottomofthehill Feb 2021 #1
Sinema and manchin will vote for it if it's in the bill jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #15
Really, because they have said just the opposite still_one Feb 2021 #17
She did not say she wouldn't vote for the full bill jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #20
I wouldn't count on it. This is an absurd Rolling Stone speculation. Sanders ammendment still_one Feb 2021 #24
Oh I agree. It isn't gonna be in the bill jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #26
I agree, I think it is much better Jorge still_one Feb 2021 #29
Absolutely jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #31
Saying you will vote against he COVID bill Miguelito Loveless Feb 2021 #61
yeah, they are susan collins concerned. mopinko Feb 2021 #59
agreed, but alas . .. Iliyah Feb 2021 #25
Then Manchin and Sinema get to own it Miguelito Loveless Feb 2021 #60
They aren't going to "sink" the entire COVID bill FBaggins Feb 2021 #64
My point exactly Miguelito Loveless Feb 2021 #67
It's passed time we moved into the 21st Century. 20 years passed, in fact. rickyhall Feb 2021 #2
This is hooey mcar Feb 2021 #3
True. NurseJackie Feb 2021 #5
+1 nt PunkinPi Feb 2021 #6
Low grade hooey grantcart Feb 2021 #8
What's the level of hooey to malarkey? mcar Feb 2021 #9
Excellent mcar!!! still_one Feb 2021 #18
Yup... No matter how often this same thing is posted, without the votes, it is meaningless hlthe2b Feb 2021 #11
+1 betsuni Feb 2021 #68
Do Sinema and Manchin tirebiter Feb 2021 #4
LOL still_one Feb 2021 #22
Could this partisan Supreme Court call the whole bill unconstitutional if Bonn1997 Feb 2021 #7
Interesting question SCantiGOP Feb 2021 #10
no still_one Feb 2021 #19
Yes Yes Yes krawhitham Feb 2021 #44
I really hate headlines like this Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2021 #12
Bullshit. More blame the woman crap. SlogginThroughIt Feb 2021 #13
No she couldn't. We won't have 50 votes for the covid relief bill with the $15 minimum wage in it. lapucelle Feb 2021 #14
We would likely actually have it jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #21
Fire/overrule the parliamentarian, maybe not have enough votes, take the provision out anyway... lapucelle Feb 2021 #28
I don't think questionable tactics would be an issue. jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #30
You should really watch Lawrence O'Donnell's show last night, OnDoutside Feb 2021 #32
Agreed. jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #35
Yes, he believes that there is already a better way to do this that OnDoutside Feb 2021 #37
Very clever! jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #39
If Wyden's provision is acceptable to all 50 Dems, great. I think OnDoutside Feb 2021 #42
Hopefully we just get the votes at some point to abolish the fillibuster. jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #43
Where you had two sides displaying a certain amount of good faith, OnDoutside Feb 2021 #45
Ohhh absolutely. Especially with what arizona is doing. jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #46
Yes, she has a difficult line to walk but I am confident Pelosi knows OnDoutside Feb 2021 #48
Not to mention down ballot Dems were largely hurt by the lack of in person field jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #50
Yes that was a big error for sure. Add that to the list ! OnDoutside Feb 2021 #57
I think it would be an issue with the press, and in their eyes Biden, Harris, and Schumer lapucelle Feb 2021 #33
I like to think the press wouldn't stoop that low. jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #36
No they will not BlueLucy Feb 2021 #53
He is not just being pushed by democrats. jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #54
We knew this 3 weeks ago. BlueLucy Feb 2021 #58
We need to try jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #62
We could have a $15 minimum wage if even a handful of fucking Republicans would vote for it. Midnight Writer Feb 2021 #16
+1 betsuni Feb 2021 #69
12 is more than a handful. Celerity Feb 2021 #71
If she did this, a vote will be forced overruling her. jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #23
Manchin and Simena could stall the bill until the minimum wage was removed no matter what andym Feb 2021 #27
I think the latter is more true than the former -as it would be easier. jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #34
Yet again with the mystical powers of the presiding officer? FBaggins Feb 2021 #38
Isn't it worth a try? Silent3 Feb 2021 #47
Votes aren't generally skipped because losing the vote is possible FBaggins Feb 2021 #63
Yet another calling out of Democrats out as callous, spineless hypocrites, Hortensis Feb 2021 #40
+1000000000 betsuni Feb 2021 #70
WE NEED THE 15 MIN WAGE!! CALL YOUR SENATORS NOW. Trueblue1968 Feb 2021 #41
Biden said he would accept the parliament's ruling. marie999 Feb 2021 #49
Bullshit! Still Sensible Feb 2021 #51
They could get $11.00/hr which is alot better than nothing. everyonematters Feb 2021 #52
Sorry, but Harris would be facing the exact same issue that Biden is, probably worse. msfiddlestix Feb 2021 #55
Trashed for trying to trash VP Harris. Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2021 #56
Not without support from Manchin and Sienema LetMyPeopleVote Feb 2021 #65
Aren't you are the energizer bunny on this issue. Less than a week on DU and 2 bullshit post GulfCoast66 Feb 2021 #66
This narrative was designed by the alt-left on social media to scapegoat Kamala. radius777 Feb 2021 #72
Sez *who* - I voted against on this post UTUSN Feb 2021 #73
No she cannot LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2021 #74
This is true... but also a bit deceptive FBaggins Mar 2021 #75
I hate to break it to you but the votes for a nuclear option do not exist LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2021 #76
Of course not FBaggins Mar 2021 #77
It would be easier and less risky Mr.Bill Mar 2021 #78

bottomofthehill

(8,239 posts)
1. She can over rule it and then Manchin and Senema
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 02:56 PM
Feb 2021

Can and by their comments would sink the bill. By over ruling, it only leaves the 15 dollars in the bill but then the bill will not pass the Senate. The bill still needs 50 votes to pass. Plus the VP breaking the tie.

still_one

(91,807 posts)
17. Really, because they have said just the opposite
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:31 PM
Feb 2021

""Arizona Senator Kyrsten Sinema, a moderate Democrat, has rejected inclusion of a $15 minimum wage in President Joe Biden's coronavirus stimulus package, dashing hopes for progressive lawmakers who are pushing for the raise.

Sinema joined Democratic Senator Joe Manchin, a fellow moderate from West Virginia, in publicly rebuking the idea that raising the minimum wage is appropriate amid the ongoing stimulus bill negotiations.

The Arizona senator made her views clear during an interview with Politico this week, in which she said would "not support" any provisions not directly related to providing immediate COVID-19 relief."

https://www.newsweek.com/kyrsten-sinema-joins-joe-manchin-rebuking-15-minimum-wage-eing-put-stimulus-dashing-1568931

jorgevlorgan

(8,196 posts)
20. She did not say she wouldn't vote for the full bill
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:32 PM
Feb 2021

She said she doesn't want it in the bill, as confirmed by the article you just gave.

still_one

(91,807 posts)
24. I wouldn't count on it. This is an absurd Rolling Stone speculation. Sanders ammendment
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:39 PM
Feb 2021

to reconciliation is the way the Democrats will approach this, and it has a very real chance of getting through




jorgevlorgan

(8,196 posts)
26. Oh I agree. It isn't gonna be in the bill
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:41 PM
Feb 2021

(even if I disagree with some as to the "why" ).The tax provision is just as good as far as I'm concerned, if not better. And there would be no question as to how it effects the budget.

jorgevlorgan

(8,196 posts)
31. Absolutely
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:46 PM
Feb 2021

Fortune 1000 companies are keeping the wages low, they should be responsible for bringing them back up. It makes perfect sense to me. Also the fact this would kick in immediately as opposed to a five year step process would be sooo much better than a simple increase. I'm pretty jazzed and hoping it gets through.

Miguelito Loveless

(4,427 posts)
61. Saying you will vote against he COVID bill
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 05:34 PM
Feb 2021

and denying $1.9 trillion in relief is one thing, actually casting the vote and ending your political career is something else.

mopinko

(69,716 posts)
59. yeah, they are susan collins concerned.
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 05:29 PM
Feb 2021

i'm sure by now the cost of a no vote has been succinctly explained to both of them.

Iliyah

(25,111 posts)
25. agreed, but alas . ..
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:40 PM
Feb 2021

RWs talking points "blame everything on the Democrats" which takes the light off of republicans who in whole are against a minimum wage and COVID-19 relief.

Miguelito Loveless

(4,427 posts)
60. Then Manchin and Sinema get to own it
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 05:33 PM
Feb 2021

and they get to own sinking the entire COVID bill. I don't think they want that on their heads.I think they are bluffing. Siding with the Q Confederacy on this would be a career ending move.

FBaggins

(26,681 posts)
64. They aren't going to "sink" the entire COVID bill
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 08:38 PM
Feb 2021

There may not be a single Democratic senator who is willing to say that they won't vote for the relief without the minimum wage increase.

Miguelito Loveless

(4,427 posts)
67. My point exactly
Sun Feb 28, 2021, 01:54 AM
Feb 2021

The minimum wage SHOULD be in the bill, and Manchin & Sinema then either vote for it, or sink the entire bill and suffer the consequences.

Instead, they get to bluff and extort the Dems into removing it. If there is no minimum wage bill passed, we will suffer in ‘22. The people who gave the Dems the White House, Senate, and House will have been screwed and will not accept any lame ass excuse about parliamentarians, or disloyal senators.

mcar

(42,179 posts)
3. This is hooey
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 02:59 PM
Feb 2021

Even if VP Harris did this, we still don't have the votes.

I've seen this on social media, too, by certain groups who seem to really, really want to smear our Vice President.

Bonn1997

(1,675 posts)
7. Could this partisan Supreme Court call the whole bill unconstitutional if
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:03 PM
Feb 2021

it has the minimum wage increase?

krawhitham

(4,634 posts)
44. Yes Yes Yes
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:21 PM
Feb 2021

Normally the Senate parliamentarian gives "advice" on whether a section of a bill is legal or not

Here the Senate parliamentarian is giving their "opinion" if this section of a bill passes the "byrd rule" or not, while it is called a "rule", the "byrd rule" is a LAW adopted in 1985 and amended in 1990

Overruling a parliamentarian does not suddenly make the section of the bill pass the "byrd rule". If the VP overrules the parliamentarian the GQP will just take the bill to court, and if the court agrees with the parliamentarian & GQP the court would at least strip out the $15 an hour but could throw the whole bill out


BTW
A VP has NEVER overruled a parliamentarian in a reconciliation bill. 1st time a reconciliation bill passed congress was the Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1980, the last time a parliamentarian was overruled was in 1975 on a point of order issue, not legality issue.

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,338 posts)
12. I really hate headlines like this
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:13 PM
Feb 2021

I see headlines like this all over social media all of the time. *What* evidence is there that Democrats just don't want it? Unless the Democrats in the Senate have taken leave of their collective faculties and/or simply becoming cold blooded and heartless, there has got to be a good reason why they are doing/not doing something. Why aren't we asking that question instead of just automatically assume there is some kind of conspiracy involved or they don't want it, are ineffective, weak, etc.?

lapucelle

(18,016 posts)
14. No she couldn't. We won't have 50 votes for the covid relief bill with the $15 minimum wage in it.
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:14 PM
Feb 2021

It might all seem simple to a Rolling Stone staff writer advocating for firing or overruling an impartial parliamentarian as some easy fix, but the reality is very different.

jorgevlorgan

(8,196 posts)
21. We would likely actually have it
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:34 PM
Feb 2021

As manchin and sinema would be hard pressed not to actually support a stimulus. If they actually don't vote for it, they can simply take out the provision.

lapucelle

(18,016 posts)
28. Fire/overrule the parliamentarian, maybe not have enough votes, take the provision out anyway...
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:42 PM
Feb 2021

... that would mean that Senate Democrats resorted to questionable Republican tactics and then still lost.

jorgevlorgan

(8,196 posts)
30. I don't think questionable tactics would be an issue.
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:43 PM
Feb 2021

But there would likely easily be the votes to reverse it, and any senator could force a vote, so it isn't gonna be in the bill either way.

OnDoutside

(19,890 posts)
32. You should really watch Lawrence O'Donnell's show last night,
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:50 PM
Feb 2021

then you will have far more information than you currently have. It's illuminating.

jorgevlorgan

(8,196 posts)
35. Agreed.
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:53 PM
Feb 2021

Does he think it wouldn't pass a full senate vote if the minimum wage is in the bill? I'll need to check him out more often. I've watched clips here and there but don't watch msnbc in general much. I am quite impressed with what I've seen of him, though.

OnDoutside

(19,890 posts)
37. Yes, he believes that there is already a better way to do this that
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:59 PM
Feb 2021

was used the last time the minimum wage was increased (in 2004 iirc), and that's to include it in a "Must Pass" Defense Bill. He said it got 80 votes and most of the 20 votes came from Democrats voting against the Defense Bill ! There will be another such Bill coming up this year.

If they are going to blow up the filibuster, make it when there really is no other way.

jorgevlorgan

(8,196 posts)
39. Very clever!
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:00 PM
Feb 2021

I don't disagree. Although for now I am quite impressed with Wydens provision which I see as a good shot to pass in this bill. But this provision put together with a future minimum wage hike would be incredible.

OnDoutside

(19,890 posts)
42. If Wyden's provision is acceptable to all 50 Dems, great. I think
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:15 PM
Feb 2021

they will find a way but if there is to be a massive fight that they need to keep their filibuster powder dry for, it's to pass S1 / HR1 & the John Lewis Voting Rights Act. After the Covid Relief bill, there is nothing more important to American Democracy, nothing. It simply must be passed.

jorgevlorgan

(8,196 posts)
43. Hopefully we just get the votes at some point to abolish the fillibuster.
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:21 PM
Feb 2021

This minority rule crap is b.s.

OnDoutside

(19,890 posts)
45. Where you had two sides displaying a certain amount of good faith,
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:29 PM
Feb 2021

it was livable, but McConnell has hastened its imminent demise for sure. The fear I have is that if it were to go, and the RWNJs slither back in...well be careful what you wish for in that situation. That's why S1 is so vital, and worth killing the filibuster for.

jorgevlorgan

(8,196 posts)
46. Ohhh absolutely. Especially with what arizona is doing.
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:33 PM
Feb 2021

Right now. Maybe Sinema will come to terms with it considering what is happening there.

OnDoutside

(19,890 posts)
48. Yes, she has a difficult line to walk but I am confident Pelosi knows
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:45 PM
Feb 2021

the score.

Actually I am really hopeful that the 2022 elections will be a lot better for Democrats that the 2020 downballot races. I think a lot of Republicans not only came out to vote for Trump and down the ballot, but a lot of Republicans came out to vote for Biden and then Republican down the ballot as well. It was a double whammy that won't be there next year, plus Covid under control, the economy flying, and unemployment way down. Even better if S1 passes Democrats just need to keep a cool head

jorgevlorgan

(8,196 posts)
50. Not to mention down ballot Dems were largely hurt by the lack of in person field
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:54 PM
Feb 2021

Republicans knocked on doors because they don't car about infecting people. Dems largely didn't. I think that had a pretty resounding effect on our downballot races as a result. Something that we did not repeat in the Georgia races.

On edit to add: I think 2022 will be really different in this regard.

lapucelle

(18,016 posts)
33. I think it would be an issue with the press, and in their eyes Biden, Harris, and Schumer
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:50 PM
Feb 2021

would own both the charge of dubious ethics and the failure of the tactic.

jorgevlorgan

(8,196 posts)
36. I like to think the press wouldn't stoop that low.
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:54 PM
Feb 2021

Although the evidence is heavily against me in this regard...

BlueLucy

(1,609 posts)
53. No they will not
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 05:20 PM
Feb 2021

Manchin is already pissed about being pushed. Why would we kill the filibuster for a bill we don't have 50 votes on? Manchin would likely have a meeting with Mitch McConnell, cut a deal, become a repuke and we lose the Senate.

jorgevlorgan

(8,196 posts)
54. He is not just being pushed by democrats.
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 05:22 PM
Feb 2021

But also his republican governor. It's a non issue though. Either way it isn't getting in the bill. The simpler reason being that even if Kamala overruled the parliamentarian, there would be a successful vote to reverse it.

BlueLucy

(1,609 posts)
58. We knew this 3 weeks ago.
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 05:28 PM
Feb 2021

People are hurting, Covid is killing folks. We need to get this relief out ASAP! Why are we holding back when we know it's not possible.

Midnight Writer

(21,469 posts)
16. We could have a $15 minimum wage if even a handful of fucking Republicans would vote for it.
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:27 PM
Feb 2021

There, I fixed the headline.

Celerity

(42,445 posts)
71. 12 is more than a handful.
Sun Feb 28, 2021, 02:38 AM
Feb 2021

It isn't going into the reconciliation bill, even if Manchin and Sinema said they would vote for it. Biden is not going to allow the parliamentarian to be overruled, and sub-zero chance Harris backstabs him and does it anyway.

Manchin and Sinema will not support a standalone bill for 15 usd AND it will be be filibustered (60 voted need for cloture).

So you will need 12 Rethugs to cross the aisle.

Never happening.

We will be super lucky to tuck an 11 usd rate (maybe even lowered to 10 usd and spread out over 3, not 2 years) into a Defence spending bill and dare the Rethugs to block it.

Our party is too divided to ram shit through. It is the price we all pay for having centrists or even centre-right conservatives (Manchin calls himself moderately conservative) as the only types who can get elected in pink/purple/red states.

jorgevlorgan

(8,196 posts)
23. If she did this, a vote will be forced overruling her.
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:38 PM
Feb 2021

That is the real problem. Not whether all democrats will vote for a stimulus bill that includes a minimum wage hike.

andym

(5,437 posts)
27. Manchin and Simena could stall the bill until the minimum wage was removed no matter what
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:41 PM
Feb 2021

and they have already announced opposition to the $15 minimum age-- so the measure is DOA in the Senate-- and it has nothing to do with Harris.

Moreover, there are probably even a greater number of senators who would refuse to go along with Harris overruling the parliamentarian, as a matter of respecting the Senate traditions.

jorgevlorgan

(8,196 posts)
34. I think the latter is more true than the former -as it would be easier.
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:51 PM
Feb 2021

But the former also has truth, I must concede. I don't think manchin and sinema would want to stake their reputations on obstructing more money to their constituents, though. I could easily be wrong of course. Either way, it isn't going in the bill.

FBaggins

(26,681 posts)
38. Yet again with the mystical powers of the presiding officer?
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:00 PM
Feb 2021

Yes... the parliamentarian's role is advisory in nature and the presiding officer could rule differently - but the presiding officer's ruling is ALSO advisory - because the full senate decides questions of rules if a single senator asks for a ruling to be voted on.

Given how the parliamentarian ruled on the question - there isn't any reason to believe that Manchin/Sinema would both support Harris's ruling on the question if she were to override the parliamentarian.

Silent3

(14,961 posts)
47. Isn't it worth a try?
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:39 PM
Feb 2021

I hate the idea that things don't get voted on at all because a losing vote is possible, and no one wants to look bad losing.

The $15 minimum wage is important enough to fight harder for it, and put Manchin and Sinema on the spot if they're going to stand in they way.

It's certainly way to important to worry about appearances. Republicans wouldn't blink an eye if the shoe was on the other foot and they wanted to make a bill or a provision pass.

FBaggins

(26,681 posts)
63. Votes aren't generally skipped because losing the vote is possible
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 08:35 PM
Feb 2021

They're generally skipped when the whip knows that the vote will fail and there's no significant benefit to expending the political capital.

Republicans wouldn't blink an eye if the shoe was on the other foot and they wanted to make a bill or a provision pass.

They would if they didn't have the votes.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
40. Yet another calling out of Democrats out as callous, spineless hypocrites,
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:10 PM
Feb 2021

always electing lying corporatists? Us and the Republicans really just like Tweedledom and Tweedledee as we prove Senator Sanders right every day?

Guess I'd better add a sarcasm emoji if anyone's here who laps up this kind of agitprop. Don't want to have to disagree with someone happy to find a like mind. It's happened.

Still Sensible

(2,870 posts)
51. Bullshit!
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 05:03 PM
Feb 2021

She could, if she wanted to spend the political capital, overrule the parliamentarian. At that point, there would need to be at least two--and perhaps more--repug senators firmly prepared to vote for it. The vice president cannot simply will it to be passed.

As much as we want the minimum wage raised to $15, and it is very important, it is most critical to get the rest of this stimulus bill passed and signed into law!

everyonematters

(3,430 posts)
52. They could get $11.00/hr which is alot better than nothing.
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 05:06 PM
Feb 2021

Manchin has stated he would approve of $11.00. If I was Biden and the Democrats, that's what I would do, after making some noise about how the Republicans are blocking it. What it really comes down to is public opinion. This is popular and important enough to have Harris do it.

msfiddlestix

(7,260 posts)
55. Sorry, but Harris would be facing the exact same issue that Biden is, probably worse.
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 05:26 PM
Feb 2021

Let's get real folks. Those rules are Jim Crow rules that the fifty Democratic Senators can't do freaking thing about, until it increases by 17 more Senators on our side.

Please let's not pretend otherwise. We have to take the Senate bigly. making a 2/3rds majority before we can make any significant changes.

LetMyPeopleVote

(143,635 posts)
65. Not without support from Manchin and Sienema
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 09:26 PM
Feb 2021

Both have stated that they will not weaken the Byrd rule and so this effort would fail

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
66. Aren't you are the energizer bunny on this issue. Less than a week on DU and 2 bullshit post
Sat Feb 27, 2021, 09:50 PM
Feb 2021

Falsely trashing democrats. Joe on the other one and Harris on this one. At least you cover all the bases. At least 2 Democratic Senators have stated they will not support the increase.

And don’t even try the old ‘Biden should make them’ bullshit. Senators are not like representatives, especially those from red or purple states where weakening them means a republican senator.

We are not political novices here and understand the often frustrating realities of a tied Senate.

Oh, welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay.

radius777

(3,624 posts)
72. This narrative was designed by the alt-left on social media to scapegoat Kamala.
Sun Feb 28, 2021, 03:32 AM
Feb 2021

She does not have 'superpowers' to do this, as others have noted, it would be overridden by the Senate, and then she (and Biden) would look like fools. Biden also ran on 'restoring normalcy' and going against the parlimentarian (who was appointed by Harry Reid and is well respected) just would look wrong.

And as noted, Manchin and Sinema would stall the bill until it was taken out. Manchin has been adamant that he won't vote on anything the parlimentarian disallowed, and if the parlimentarian had allowed it he would've only gone as high as $11/hr. Why get into this shit for $11 when we can (as Lawrence Odonnell who worked in the Senate noted) stuff it into a defense spending bill - same way we did to raise it to $7.75 back in 2009.

Manchin is a problem but he is in a deep red state, so it's difficult (but not impossible) to find a better conservative Dem to primary him. Sinema should be primaried as she's too conservative for a purple state. Somebody better like Rep. Ruben Gallego could defeat her in a primary and IMO easily win statewide.

FBaggins

(26,681 posts)
75. This is true... but also a bit deceptive
Sat Mar 6, 2021, 10:34 PM
Mar 2021

The quoted statistic appears to measure the number of times that a VP has ignored the advice of the parliamentarian and then had the full senate override that decision.

But it ignores the "nuclear option" occurrences where the presiding officer ruled with the parliamentarian and then had the full senate override that ruling.

LetMyPeopleVote

(143,635 posts)
76. I hate to break it to you but the votes for a nuclear option do not exist
Sat Mar 6, 2021, 10:39 PM
Mar 2021

We lack the votes in the Senate. On the Last Word s couple of nights ago, it was explained how that overriding the parliamentarian is meaningless unless you have the votes. If VP Harris overruled the Parliamentarian, McConnell would propose an amendment to strike the minimum wage and this vote would pass 52 to 48. We do not have the votes to pass this amendment right now in the real world

FBaggins

(26,681 posts)
77. Of course not
Sat Mar 6, 2021, 11:23 PM
Mar 2021

It’s just a mistake to believe that there’s some structural roadblock to overriding the parliamentarian’s view on some rule.

It does happen... it just hasn’t happened through the VP. But that’s just because the VP is rarely involved.

Mr.Bill

(24,031 posts)
78. It would be easier and less risky
Sat Mar 6, 2021, 11:34 PM
Mar 2021

to fight this on a state-by-state basis.

It's already been done in a number of states. It would be a good issue to use in state elections to turn states blue in some cases. Don't see it as a problem, use it as a tool.

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